I was thinking earlier about how there are a few recurring discussions on TER. I suspect everyone knows what I'm talking about here -- review scoring, BB, deposits/cancellation fee, screening and personal info....
In general it seems these get started by someone that has probably been around long enough to have seen (but perhaps just are not discussion group participants often so miss them) the cycle. In some (many?) cases it is really just a vent.
But have these ever changed anyone one's mind or behavior? Wondering if anyone has been through a couple of rounds and started with one view and changed based on discussion.
I haven't been on TER for very long, just a few months, and originally, I did a whole lot more reading on the discussion boards than I posted anything. I delved through scores of threads, often reading each post, but not every single time. I was in the hobby world for years without even knowing that TER existed. When I found it a few months ago, and then when I got VIP membership, my horizons expanded greatly.
I've seen certain topics repeated on various threads. Neither the repetitive nature of seeing particular topics nor the argumentative nature of some posts have convinced me to see something differently than I saw them before reading about it here.
For instance, I've never paid a deposit nor a cancellation fee, but after reading about it so much on here, I know I was right in not doing it. I've always preferred independent providers over agency providers, and while I learned a lot of positives about agencies, I still stuck with independents. I would never consider bareback full service, and it appears the majority of us agree. I see the ways law enforcement can jam a guy up, so it's helped me think about self-protection more.
What has happened is that I've learned a whole lot about the hobby world from both providers' and hobbyists' points of view. I find that valuable, because first-hand experiences are a lot more worthy than any other kinds of write-ups.
I don't know if this counts as my mind being changed about the things I thought before coming here.
Take one of the often discussed topics "The Envelope" If you go back a decade or so you will find I was one of the only guys who freely admitted that not only did I NOT use a silly envelope, but that the whole idea of using one "for safety" was a ridiculous idea. I was accused of being a misogynist, rude, disrespectful, and a whole host of other disparaging remarks back then for my views on the subject.
Fast forward to today and not only is my opinion on the subject mainstream, but I dare say my opinion is now the majority opinion, so somewhere along the line it appears that a whole bunch of people have had their minds changed.
And you're saying people don't accuse "of being a misogynist, rude, disrespectful, and a whole host of other disparaging" characteristics any longer? LOL
And yes, I did just make that all about you fucker.
But I agree, I don't think I've used an envelope since my very first meeting -- and thought it silly then from the "safety" angle.
But 10-15 years ago I found myself outnumbered 10-1 on the subject by people who act like they always felt that way today, but do a "search" under the subject and you will find all sorts of threads where those people were equating me not using an envelope with calling their mother a cunt. lol Many of those same people are still here today, but they have total amnesia about those discussions from just a few years back.
and yes, people still make those accusations, but for different reasons today. lol
I recall when I first started read TER the "envelope wars" were still active -- so a bit less than 10 years back.
I suppose the other one that might go with the "envelope thinking" (i.e., a false belief it protects) is the whole "LE check" some mention. "She allowed me to grope her. That's entrapment so you cannot arrest me!!!!!!" (all the way to the station).
At least for those that still ask for their use or those that do use them it seems to have become more a don't ask, don't tell and not one really cares situation than recurring theme finally.
Because it would never work. It always seemed to me to be part of the "GFE myth." You got to present together that she wasn't fucking you for money since the money was never seen. She'd notice where you put it, then invite you to "freshen up" and check the amount while you were pretending to clean your balls again.
I still use an envelope and always will. It just seems classier. Sometimes, if I came from work and am wearing a suit, I will put the envelope in my breast pocket. Then I will pull the girl close to me by putting my hands on her waist and tell her if she wants the donation, she has to pick my pocket. She will invariably put her hand in my pants pocket, then the other, and come up empty, to which I smile and respond, "wrong pockets, but thanks for rubbing my balls." They always laugh, and it gets us off to a humorous and light-hearted start.
-- Modified on 1/26/2021 12:38:21 AM
If the lady want her fee in an envelope, I give it to her in an envelope.
In the past, I would frequently see provider's, on their web page, instructing clients to somehow obscure the donation (envelope, gift bag, etc.). Now, I don't know if this was for LE or just for self esteem. But, rather than try to remember who wants an envelope and who doesn't, I will always use an envelope.
But, to GaGa's point, that requirement appears now less frequently than I remember.
I think there have been multiple studies done that people form their core values and principles quite early in their life, and it's extremely difficult to change their mind. Most of other values and principles usually branch off those values and principles.
Of course, changing one's religion, political affiliation etc is very different and far from changing one's mind about bringing an envelope to a hooker. My point is, I feel like most discussions on the internet or outside the internet don't change peoples minds. Barring some exceptions, at most they give food for thought. It's always up to the person to have a conversation with him/herself to actually change their own mind.
The debates might seem tiring, but they usually consist of people trying to show why they're doing things their way/support a certain thing/person etc. Unless it's pure preference like taste, there is usually some underlying logic as to why someone does something a certain way.
I think there have been multiple studies done that people form their core values and principles quite early in their life, and it's extremely difficult to change their mind. Most of other values and principles usually branch off those values and principles.
Of course, changing one's religion, political affiliation etc is very different and far from changing one's mind about bringing an envelope to a hooker. My point is, I feel like most discussions on the internet or outside the internet don't change peoples minds. Barring some exceptions, at most they give food for thought. It's always up to the person to have a conversation with him/herself to actually change their own mind.
The debates might seem tiring, but they usually consist of people trying to show why they're doing things their way/support a certain thing/person etc. Unless it's pure preference like taste, there is usually some underlying logic as to why someone does something a certain way.
There are always new people coming to a board. I welcome the good ones. The search function isn't always the best and digging through sometimes hundreds of posts and threads isn't helpful. Also, as noted, times change. One can also take the advice of if you've seen it before, then ignore it. If you took out the recurring themes, this board would be really dead.
I'm on the fence about the envelope. I used to leave an envelope until I ran into a few providers that said I was short. So then started leaving the donation out. Legally, I don't know what happens if money is never discussed nor touched. We should ask the LegalEagle, guy is funny.
There are always new people coming to a board. I welcome the good ones. The search function isn't always the best and digging through sometimes hundreds of posts and threads isn't helpful. Also, as noted, times change. One can also take the advice of if you've seen it before, then ignore it. If you took out the recurring themes, this board would be really dead.
I'm on the fence about the envelope. I used to leave an envelope until I ran into a few providers that said I was short. So then started leaving the donation out. Legally, I don't know what happens if money is never discussed nor touched. We should ask the LegalEagle, guy is funny.