First of all, I think you are being disingenuous in trying to cast aspersions on her credibility given how often you tell the story of your own marriage. I don't recall you rejecting anyone's sympathies when offered to you, nor qualifying your posts by reminding us that we're not hearing your ex-wife's part of the story.
Secondly, forgiveness is too often used as a "get out of jail free" card for fuckups. She should go through the emotional work of letting it go [no one really "lets it go" like that, they just repress their anger which is not healthy], while he has to do nothing for it but say "I'm sorry"? I do suggest that if she decides the marriage is worth saving, that she give him an opportunity to work hard to rebuild her trust. This could take years but he needs to WORK.
Not forgiving does not mean letting anger eat at you like poison, that's nonsense. It's like anything else, if someone doesn't work for it, they don't reap the rewards. Love has to be earned not expected. The opposite of forgiveness isn't necessarily hatred, or a life dominated by anger, it's a life lived with choice and responsibility.
-- Modified on 8/14/2007 4:47:44 AM
has raised many questions of our participation in this hobby.... I am not sure that there are any answers there, but one thing did occur to me as I read through the post... how many wives are reading this board? Seems that there were two that I could identify on that thread. Are there others? lurkers? or such? honestly - how many of you out there are wives... here either to catch someone, to learn about your potential future profession, or curious.... or whatever... who are you and why are you here?
Thanks...
I am truly surprised at all the responses. Yes, I believe their is another wife out there, too. It still blows me away that this all happened, and I was unaware. I am not here trying to catch someone. I just caught him by pure accident. It took me a few minutes to actually get what I was reading. I never heard of this website before. I can't believe how many people have read this. I think our world has a lot of lonely people in it. I just joined the ranks. It is not just about the sex. It was about the correspondence. His waiting for their phone calls, not mine. It is just very sad. I came here to learn where my husband has been for the past 4 years....he would tell me he was working. If he had a problem, he would tell me it was about work. These are lies. He was too much of a coward to admit what direction he was going in. I found this out 2 days after my birthday. We had IMO one of our best nights. We had a great time. He would tell me how much he loves me, how special I am, blah, blah...but once I caught him, Now I am the cause of all of this. Anyway, I apprecaite the forum to help me express myself. I really did come here to try to learn my husband's point of view, as he is not as forthcoming with me as so many of you have been. I believe it has been helping me to open my mind. I thank all of you for such candid responses.
I personally love my wife. I would not want a divorce. But I am pretty addicted to the occasional fling with a lady of the evening. It's something I simply can't imagine doing without. It may seem hard to believe, unfaithful2002, but I would have no problem having a wonderful romantic evening with my wife on her birthday, then the following week having amazing physical sex with some young hottie. It's hard to think of never having sex with a pretty young thing again -- i just love that. My wife is 50, and our sex is fine. But there's nothing like the mind-blowing escapism of doing it with a slim, hot 30-year-old.
If my wife found out, like unfaithful 2002, she would probably be really hurt and divorce me. That would suck. But I don't seem to be able to change. And one big difference -- I wouldn't blame the problem on my wife, like unfaithful's seems to have.
--arrow
I came onto the thread late so I didn't leave a comment but I thought it was interesting how many people tried to turn the tables around and accuse unfaithful2002 of causing her husband to cheat.
That's bullshit. She could have been the worst wife on earth, but it was still his decision to do what he did. He needs to own up to it and decide what he wants. I am not blaming anyone, just saying that people need to take responsibility for the consequences of their actions.
I'm not saying it's easy. There's a lot at stake, but blaming someone else for one's actions is infantile.
side of the story, it will almost always put the storyteller in a glowing light. We've heard one side of this story and one side only.
I cannot sit and say "oh poor baby" when I do not know what the other side is... no matter the gender of the story teller.... for all we know she is telling the truth, or not. Either way - to presuppose and not advise professional help would not be assistive. And I always advise forgiveness. maybe not forgetfulness - but forgiveness - well, that is the first step in healing.
Besides, you don't have to say "poor baby" (which, again you are being condescending). No one told you you had to say such a ridiculous thing. But on the other hand you could have some compassion. Again, you contradict yourself with your posts. I don't believe I was telling her to leave her husband nor that she was to blame. I just love it when you put words into people's mouths that they don't say. Hmmm, sound familiar?
Also, I was responding to someone else's post, not you. Can you just leave it alone and not make everything about you? 
-- Modified on 8/13/2007 10:57:36 PM
-- Modified on 8/13/2007 10:59:26 PM
-- Modified on 8/13/2007 11:00:55 PM
First of all, I think you are being disingenuous in trying to cast aspersions on her credibility given how often you tell the story of your own marriage. I don't recall you rejecting anyone's sympathies when offered to you, nor qualifying your posts by reminding us that we're not hearing your ex-wife's part of the story.
Secondly, forgiveness is too often used as a "get out of jail free" card for fuckups. She should go through the emotional work of letting it go [no one really "lets it go" like that, they just repress their anger which is not healthy], while he has to do nothing for it but say "I'm sorry"? I do suggest that if she decides the marriage is worth saving, that she give him an opportunity to work hard to rebuild her trust. This could take years but he needs to WORK.
Not forgiving does not mean letting anger eat at you like poison, that's nonsense. It's like anything else, if someone doesn't work for it, they don't reap the rewards. Love has to be earned not expected. The opposite of forgiveness isn't necessarily hatred, or a life dominated by anger, it's a life lived with choice and responsibility.
-- Modified on 8/14/2007 4:47:44 AM
and forgiveness - as I stated- does not mean forgetfulness. How she forgives is also a matter of personal preference - she can forgive - and divorce him - she can forgive and stay married to him under specific conditions or she can forgive and stay married to him - knowing the current set of flaws (perhaps tomorrow he will start gambling.... we don't know)
forgiveness simply means that she will not pound him on a daily basis... It also means that she will basically NOT be angry about this, but truly decide how she will deal with it in a manner that is constructive to her life and lets her get on with her life without this consuming her. That is all! It is not as you say a "get out of jail free card" Kinda like kids... they fuckup - you correct them - and let them AND YOU move on. but to stand there day after day saying to a person - "hey, you fucked up" is counter productive.
as far as casting aspersions - I offer that she should examine all that led to the discovery. her part as well as his. I don't know all of their marriage - she does. She is clearly looking for answers - but as I said, they are not here.... the best place for her to start is with herself - that is still true. Only then can she (if she so chooses) go to him and say, "ok.... what are we to do. here is what I want.."
Simply saying that it is all his fault.... ? what? based on what? Her view of the situation? don't think so.
You are correct in that forgiveness takes time. It does not happen overnight... and a part of that process is accepting the things that you are responsible for. So I do agree- she is not going to wake up tomorrow and say, "ok, I forgive you!" it takes time. but once it happens... wow! what a load off! The anger no longer consumes you - and you get on with life.
AS far as me? and people not hearing my ex-wife's part of the story... true.... you haven't I have... and that is why I accept my part in the break up of our marriage. and yes, I did play a role in it. Now, she and I often work together. We do joke about our marriage.... (most of the jokes, mine AND HERS, are standard fair for divorced couples) and we do make comments about each other to each other....
Why did your wife always bash you (like we've never been humiliated by our spouses)? Perhaps she really thought you were overbearing and condescending. There's always two sides of the story, and quite honestly I don't respect you for always bashing your marriage on this board. You come off like you're the only person who has been divorced. Good Gosh! I could tell you horror stories about my life (not all bad) and you'd feel like an ass for your self-pity party. That's all I'm going to say to you from this point on. It's pointless. You're a grown man, supposedly well educated. We've all been hurt -- some maybe far worse than you. Get over it!
PEACE OUT
-- Modified on 8/14/2007 11:35:06 AM
I never said that you said it was "all his fault." when problems occur in a marriage both parties have a hand int it. However, his decision to cheat was all his, no matter what she did - that IS all his responsibility. That's what I said.
The way you describe forgiveness, you are confusing an emotional choice with day-to-day behavior. Forgiveness means that she will suppress her anger and act like it never happened.
Someone can be angry without harping on it every day and still constructively re-build their lives. In the course of re-building the anger will sometimes be expressed, as it should, but it can also dissipate. If it starts to consume a person, then they probably can't be in that situation.
You're right, I have never known "forgiveness" because I don't want it. If I hurt someone I care about I want to show that I want to make things right. I don't want them to give me the benefit of the doubt, I need to earn the trust. Your example about kids is too general. If my kid stole from a candy store, yeah I could just move on, but if my son raped a girl, no I won't just give them a lecture and move on. Not all fuckups are the same and don't merit the same response. This also applies to adults, don't you agree?
unfaithful2002 went on TER trying to find out what hobbyists/providers had to say about why men cheat. This is part of trying to make sense of the situation for her. She came here for some answers, not THE answer. Instead of limiting yourself to what she said, you assumed more than you should have.
As for your ex-wife's side of the story, I don;t need to know it. I already assumed your story was one-sided. You telling it doesn't make it any less so. I just wanted to note that the next time you tell your story, you shouldn't be surprised if someone else tells you to stop going "boo hoo" the way you told unfaithful2002. What's good for the goose, right?
-- Modified on 8/14/2007 6:13:59 PM
I wasn't looking for sympathy ....
-- Modified on 8/16/2007 11:59:44 AM
want the same thing...
to be 30 forever.
to be loved for yourself.
to contribute in a meaningful manner to society.
to help those around us.
to find self worth.
but most of all...
to find peace.
bottom line, get counseling to sort through your individual deamons. love your kids... and no matter what, forgive your husband (even if you decide to divorce) - pent up anger does you no good and prevents healing.
Personally, it took me 2+ years to share my fair share of the blame for the failure of my marriage...but once I did, things got better.... I would suggest that you reexamine your marriage - and find that which is yours to share.... as one who was in your shoes 4 years ago, I know that right now that might not be possible, but as I say, once you can! WOW! a lot of anger and humiliation will just go away.
And no, this is not about bashing women... it is about the nature of human relations - whether they be male female or male male or female female... just two folks who sadly no longer can support the trust necessary to sustain a marriage.
Best of luck. For all my bluntness - and for what it is worth - what you did - took guts! You're quite the gal... and for what it is worth, I think you would make a great provider - it is all attitude...
You bluntness was exactly why I came to this site. I of course am speaking to my friends and a therapist (never thought I would say that.) A marriage consists of two people. We definitely had problems...I just didn't know the extent. He needed to express them to me. BUT his actions went well above and beyond marital problems. I am actually seeing things clearer. Not admitting what he did is actually making me angrier, and leading me down the road easier to divorce. The trust is already gone, I still cry for my children who don't know yet. But they will have a stronger mother, and hopefully will be able to adjust. I am looking for that inner peace. I am getting closer. Thank you.
I think that discussion/exchange was really great as well...
I think it's good for ALL of us, to think about what we do, and the WHY.
I wish for more honesty and openness because it's better for everybody.
I've asked some questions regarding providers, and one of the reasons is because the better I can understand what their thinking is, the better I can appreciate and respect them, and also interact with them in a way that works better for all parties involved.
I will step up too, after all it is only fair. You all allowed us to pick your brains, and even if it sounds odd to you, it has helped.
I came here 3 weeks ago, after doing a Yahoo search on my husbands email handle. Wow, to say the least.
We were married very young, and have our 20th next month. We have talked in the past few days like we have not talked in years. We are trying, to see how it goes, and trying to spark the flame once again.
Why did I come here? Well, while reading my husband's reviews (I guess I like torture), and his discussions, several other poster's discussions really intrigued me. I was also curious while still angry, and had assumed this would be a big wife bashing site.
But I was very wrong, which made me even more curious. While there are a few providers and members who are not very tactful and respectful, the majority are very respectful and I can hear the pain in their words that brought them here.
I also was very intrigued by the beautiful providers here, and pretty ashamed too. Years of diapers, dishes, working, the whole soccer mom thing....I had slumped into not caring for myself. To get everything done in a day, it is so much easier just to whip the hair into a tail, throw on a big Tshirt and not put make up on. It's almost like I forgot that I was a woman. I was hoping that by reading what the laides write, that it would help me to pick up on my femininity again, gain some new tips, etc. I do admit I am really behind the times.
As for learning about a future profession, well, I am intrigued and coule use to learn a lot....I know in my heart that my interest lies in a monogamous relationship. Just like some people have talked about they cannot commit to one, it's how they are wired, at least for now. This is how I am wired.
Ok, now I am REALLY going to sound stupid....but if any of you ladies care to throw out any pointers out there, I'm all ears. My heart is really into making this work, and hopefully have fun doing so.
Thank you all
I'm a wife of a "hobbyer". In fact, he's a regular poster on this board. Haven't seen much of him lately. He might be lurking. Don't know. Don't care. (No, it's not the guy who confessed to getting caught last week.)
I found his reviews, sat on the information for a couple of months while I processed it. Tried to figure out why he was doing it. What it meant. What to do about it.
After confiding in two friends, consulting with my ob/gyn, a therapist and three family law attorneys, I confronted him (very calmly) and insisted he leave. There were other issues in the marriage but the hookers were deal breakers.
At least he had the grace not to deny it. He pushed back a little. Said he wanted to stay and that he was sorry. But, as you can imagine, this is not the kind of thing where you can simply kiss, make up and move on. 'Sorry' wasn't good enough.
He was seeing hookers before we married, although not while we were dating (she said none too confidently). Before we said "I do" and several times during our marriage, I made it clear that if he cheated on me or resumed his 'hobby', I'd leave. I was true to my word.
He says he was unhappy. He says he had issues with me, my body, my attitude, the way I handled money and my watching reality tv. I admit I was a less than perfect wife and that I got fat after the baby and the blow jobs weren't as frequent as they had been. I can understand how that would make a man unhappy and I understand how that made MY man unhappy, but I don't think that excuses his fundamental betrayal of our marriage nor the harm he might have done had he brought disease into my bed and body. He was far from perfect himself, emotionally abusive at times and, last time I checked, fat and balding, but it never occurred to me to cheat on him. He disrespected and humiliated me and that's what I haven't been able to forgive.
In the years that I've known him, he's always been fascinated with porn, online hookups, strippers, lap dancers, this site, etc. He was a practicing Christian and church-goer when I met/married him and his faith was an important part of his life. He appears to have abandoned it.
Bottom line, and the way I explain it to myself is that he was unhappy and wanted to leave, but didn't have the balls to get up and go. Instead, he did what many men do when they feel trapped. He acted out so horribly that staying was no longer feasible for me. I suspect that on some sub-conscious level he wanted to be found out. Wanted to see if I was woman enough to step up and do something about it. I can't help but think sometimes that I did him a favor when I asked him to leave.
I am on my own with our child. He pays a very generous support and I make an excellent living so I'm not hurting financially. My credit is a little fucked but it will recover.
As pathological as it sounds, I miss him. Wait... scratch that. I miss my family and my wedding ring and the man I married who I adored. I don't miss the chronic philanderer and liar he morphed into.
Can't deny however that in many ways I am happier. My self-esteem took a pounding during the marriage but it's healing slowly. The weight is coming off. Someone else gets my blow jobs now and loves them. My child made it through the transition and appears to be happy.
Why am I here? For a number of reasons. I read the message boards and the reviewz and I've gained a lot of insight into the male mind and male desire. I told my therapist that I know more about prostitution and the sex trade than any self-respecting woman should. *shrug* Several of you are witty as hell and I stop in for the entertainment value of your posts. I don't come by often but I did catch that thread on Sunday and stopped by today to see if there were any further remarks.
As a fellow wife, I admire your courage. I have been on this website everyday now. I am looking for the closure your husband did give to you by his admissions and his leaving. My husband said he will not leave because he loves the children & me. I guess he won't leave until the divorce is final. I have contacted an attorney, but haven't filed for divorce yet. I think he was unhappy, and maybe did want to get caught. He knows that what he was doing was a marriage breaker, but he chose to do it anyway. My self esteem is definitely low, but I will build that up as well. Never thought I would be 38 years old and divorced mom of 2. I hope my children make it through as well as yours did.
I also already miss him. Crazy, but I actually feel like he died. NOw I have to heal. I didn't think any other wives were on here. I guess there are others in our boat too. It is still so new. I still can't believe he did these things to me. I know that is my denial, but I never saw it coming. He would tell me he didn't really like strip clubs. I guess that is because they wouldn't do what he wanted for him. I wish you luck. You seem to be recovering well.
You are very kind; thank you. It has not been easy, not in any way. Emotionally, financially, socially.
I had to liquidiate some of my retirement savings to get a place for my child and myself. It's gorgeous though; a lot nicer than his. *lol*
Emotionally, it's been difficult. Finding out what I did didn't make me stop loving him. I *WISH* it had. I wish everything I felt for him had died on the spot. A clean getaway, as it were. Because of our child, because of a number of different things, he is still in my life. I will say this: I didn't know how strong I really was until faced with this. After having survived this shit and pushing that big-headed kid into the world, I am quite confident I can do fuckin' anything. I am seriously considering the Ironman Triathalon. *lol*
We continued to sleep together for the longest while and it was probably the best sex of our entire relationship. I'm talking smokin'. I felt almost as if I had something to prove ... and I kinda felt, ok, if you want slutty and wanton, I can DO slutty and wanton. I am not going to be concerned with what you think of me, I am going to do what feels good and lay one on you and me! *lol*
We are both in therapy and the plan, as I understand it, is to figure our own our shit and then embark on marital counselling. In my heart of hearts, I would love to reconcile with my husband. I want my family back and he is (was?) the man of my dreams. But - how the hell can I? Am I really going to sign up for round three of this? If his being faithful to me is entirely dependent on me being a stepford wife, it ain't gonna work. It's doomed.
I admire you as well... coming here and telling your story. You started us off and, although I can "hear" the hurt in your tone, I also "hear" forgiveness, honest curiosity. I can "hear" you seeking for answers.
All I keep thinking is how much I hate having been deceived. How am I going to get from where I am to where he is. What bridge can span that divide? It isn't that I wouldn't take him back.... I just don't see how I can....
You are welcome to email me offline. Both of you ... or however many there are of you.
Stay blessed.
I think WebTerroist has a very good handle on this whole topic - from both sides of the fence. It takes a very flexible mind to see things that way and WT brings a lot to those who want to listen. Although the reality may be a shock, you are fortunate to find this resource at the beginning of your journey not at the end.......let yourself grieve for what is lost, take the advice of a few people here and put your energy into more productive things other than trying to change someone who doesnt have the capacity: focus on your own fulfillment, happiness, peace and yes physical pleasures....it may be ultimately be for the benefit of your own sanity and your childrens' future.
This has been fascinating and enlightening. Many thanks to the wives who have spoken about their experiences.
But, I think the issues they are dealing with are not betrayal or breaking of trust, the issues center around sex. Would you wives be so quick to seek a divorce if your husband lied about going to a strip club? Seeing a therapist? His golf score? All of those things involve lying and a betrayal of trust. What makes seeing providers different is that sex is involved. If it didn't involve sex, would the lies be deal breakers? I'm willing to bet that they wouldn't.
Someone once asked me a question a long time ago that I think is thought-provoking. Did you get married because of sex? No? Then why would you get divorced because of it?
This I must answer. I did not get maried only because of sex. But our committment to each other was to be faithful. Infidelity is not on the same scale as lying about his golf score. Wouldn't you agree? There are risks involved with sex outside the marriage. Breaking these vows is breaking the marriage. Now he is free to have sex with whomever he wishes.......It won't be with me anymore! Thanks for the surprising support I received on this website. ANd thanks for all the entertaioning conversations, too!
Ask the one who has been f*&ked around on and they will tell you. Personally, I don't give a damn...it's all just friction.
Yes, it is about sex, but in my opinion it is a minimal part of it.
My husband is also my friend..always has been. The fact that he had sex with others hurts yes, but what hurts more is he could not talk to me beforehand. And I think for a lot of women, sex is more emotional, and this as women can make it much more difficult for us to understand that there can be sex with no emotional ties.
Betrayal and breaking of trust about being intimate with someone else, especially when you have pledged vows to your spouse....is a far cry from lying about a golf score, or going to a strip club.
Then there is the bigger issues....such as this past Christmas was tight money-wise. I borrowed money from my parents so our kids could have some decent presents. He saw two providers that month. This case, not about the sex....it was about the selfishness and the audacity and the taking away from our kids. This one may take more time to forgive than anything else.
I did not get married because of sex, and if we end up divorcing, it will not be because of sex. It would be because he emotionally abandoned his family, and made choices that could very well have physically harmed his family.
This is not even about sex, per se. I could forgive a one-night stand on a business trip... I could forgive a lapse of judgement. But this was deliberate, repeated and against what we agreed to nearly five years ago, before friends and family.
Frankly, I've had it. Had it with the strippers, the online booty, the gangbanging with his buddies. I've read all of the posts and while I see what some of the fellows are saying about 'needs' and 'wants', etc. basically, it still comes down to a choice. He thought he could put one (a few!) over on me and he learned I wasn't as stupid or trusting as he thought.
He shouldn't be married and, by April of next year, he won't be.
For arguments sake, say your female significant other despite an agreement to be exclusive, secretly saw other men, just for sexual pleasure only. When the lies were discovered she said she loves you and is happy but that her sexual needs were not being satisfied so she lied to protect your feelings and the relationship. Would you feel the same way about her behaviour as you right now about yours.