Do you only visit legal brothels?  If you don't then you too are running scared, just to a lesser degree than me.  And don't forget if you piss on me for being a liar to my spouse then you piss on almost every hobbyist and some providers on this board.  In other words, don't lecture me on morals unless you are absolutely free of sin yourself and are willing to lecture all of us.

Hi all,

Long time no communicate.  Question for y'all.

A few months back an old friend came into town and he and I went out for dinner.  I left the wife and kids at home.  He doesn't know I hobby.  I used this wonderful opportunity to hit it with a lovely provider lady after the friend wanted to make it an early night.  So I was out quite late and lied to the Mrs. that my friend and I were out late going to clubs etc.

In a couple weeks my family and I are taking a vacay to his city.  I haven't contacted him yet to tell him.  Ideally, I'd like to get the families together, see his house, etc.  Of course I'm nervous that the my wife might bring up the subject of our wild late night out.  'what?' he'll say 'he dropped me back at the hotel early 'cause I had an early flight he next day'.  Incredibly awkward silence followed by ?

Should I a) not tell him I'm coming, b) get together and hope for the best that the 'wild night' subject doesn't come up or, c) something else?

First of all it is never a good idea to use a beard that knows your wife, however given these circumstances you have no choice but to tell your friend something. I would not tell him you were P4P that night but I might tell him that being married and all you rarely get out and since he made it an early night you took advantage of it and hit a couple spots after dropping him off and you told your wife that he went with you. Unless he is a prude he will understand and will maybe only be pissed that you didn't mention it before dropping him off since he is married he probably gets it. Also do you know that he does not hobby? Maybe he had someone coming over himself and needed to shake you. Anyway bet your bottom dollar that your wife, if given the chance, will somehow verify your story about that night if she was the least bit suspicious and assuming she is a woman, she is already suspicious.Now that you are here you better ask your buddy to play along a little or you may next be finding yourself asking him if you can sleep in his basement.

Just an old, ugly, fat fuck with an opinion

want to keep it on the down low.  Tell him you won $2k and you don't want the wife to know.

If I were you, I would tell him in confidence that you were little hesitant earlier, but you took off because you wanted some ME time. And that Mrs doesn't know about this and not to throw you under the bus in front of the family. I would keep it vague in the beginning, but be prepared if he wants to know more...

This is the reason why I typically keep family and friends away from hobbying activities.

Good luck buddy...

It's really a bad idea to include another in your cover story as that will always be a weak link...  but tell him as little as possible.  The less he knows, the better for both of you.  

The more I think on this, the less I think you can allow the wives to meet.  You told your wife that both of you went clubbing...  so your wife tells his wife that he went clubbing, now he's in trouble & didn't even get to party.  So he scrambles to save himself & throws you under the bus.  

He better be on board or avoid this meeting.
HV

I think you guys are right.  I will probably contact him with the gambling ruse and tell him to keep it on the down low.  But that's a good point about the wives.  His wife will wonder about the late night clubbing.  What a mess I've woven.  To top it off, I did something similar with another more local friend.  It maybe a good idea to head him off at the pass in case we run into each other with my wife present.  You all are right in that I shouldn't involve friends in any way in the game.  Never again.  Thanks.

S

C) Pray and start looking for a good divorce attorney.

You KNEW it is not a good idea to tell people, especially friends, about your hobbying. Yet you indirectly INVOLVED your friend by using him as an alibi for your hobbying. You have put your friend in an incredibly awkward position. Thanks to your selfishness and your thinking of only yourself, you probably haven't realized that until now.

The truth will eventually come out and make it back to your wife. Good luck.

Since this is not your first time involving a friend (unbeknowst to them) as a hobbying alibi, I find it highly paradoxical how you are so worried about your wife finding out that you are cheating with other women behind her back, but not so worried enough that it stops you from cheating in the first place.

After reading about situations like this, it makes me glad I've never 'hobbied' while dating someone, lol.

a small lie turns into a bigger one..then you keep lying to cover the other lie..a man once said 'he who tells a lie is not sensible how great a task he undertakes ; for he must be forced to invent twenty more to maintain that one '  very true..

If he's a good friend, just give a heads up, in case it comes up in conversation (not the details of course).

Reminds me of the old joke:

Husband stumbles home at 6 A.M. and is confronted by wife as to where he's been?

He tells her he was out with Bob, Phil, and Barney.

Wife immediately calls Bob, Phil, and Barney.

Bob tells her he just left.

Both Phil and Barney tell her he's still at their houses, but sleeping, and they'll make sure to get him home safe!

Guy Code!!

Chiguy

Once a bad decision is made it's helpful to acknowledge that your options going forward are not optimal.  Otherwise it becomes the basis for a comedy, farce or tragedy, take your pick.  

Damn MSH!  You are quite the little buzz kill these days aren't you?  There's no paradox here.  I took a 3 month break from the hobby to figure things out based on my guilt over doing cheating.  I am re-entering the hobby because once again, despite my guilt, I'm tired of having cobwebs grow on my privies.

The incidents I described were back in the heyday of my hobbying a few months prior.  I involved the friends because these were evening flings.  I almost never get the chance to be out in the evening away from the wife where the providers play (the big city).  When I do hobby I can otherwise usually only do it in the early morning in the far suburbs when the wife thinks I'm at the health club before work so my selection is limited.  I admit to my mistake involving friends, but it seemed like a good low risk thing both times.  I now simply have to confront one of those situations.  Take a chill brother.

I can always just not contact him knowing my odds of running into him in his big city are slim to none.  The other guy, well, it's been several months and I still haven't bumped into him with my wife present.  He has nothing to hide to his wife due to different circumstances.

S

Yes but without lies there is no hobbying, which equals a lifetime of infrequent lame sex (if marriage is desired based on mutual love and desire to raise children together) which just may equal going to one's grave frustrated and with regrets.  Besides, I've been successful at lying so far.  So there's no major reason to stop.

Would you like me to lie to you and tell you what you want to hear? Would you like me to say "Don't worry. Everything is fine. You'll never get caught, as your wife is too stupid to put everything together. Keep doing what you're doing." There, I just did it. Thus endeth the buzzkill session for you.

Of course, you'll eventually have a much more impactful buzkill session to worry about.

The paradox exists no matter how you try to rationalize it (involving friends because of the time of day, re-entering hobby only because you haven't had sex for 3 months, involving your friends seemed low risk at the time, etc.).

I assure you I'm quite chill. After all, I have the good sense to NOT involve my friends as alibis for any surreptitious activities. The question is how chill will you be when all is said and done.

Instead of chastising or lying to me, you could offer helpful and respectful advice like pretty much everyone else.  If you chastise me for lying, then you chastise everyone on this board including yourself, as you lie to a society that makes this hobby (and I assume your participation in it) illegal.

You don't know that I will get caught one day.  If I do I will have to deal with the consequences, just like you may have to deal with Uncle LEO if he pays you a surprise visit.

Before you criticize, take a look in the mirror.

well that says it all..if that is your attitude your future is not very encouraging..lying will eventually destroy your marriage and your soul..

There you go again with the rationalizing. It will prove to be your undoing.

I never berated you for lying. EVERYONE lies from time to time. I berated you for stupidly involving your friends in your surreptitious activities. If they were REALLY your friends, then you would not have treated them so disrespectfully (same goes for your wife, but that's a different issue).

The advice I offered you was to not involve your friends as alibis in your surreptitious activities. It's not my fault that you were too stupid to see that I did offer you advice (although your stupidity is certainly understandable given your involving your friends by using them as alibis).

You're right, nothing is certain about what will happen to you. But if you honestly believed that, then you wouldn't have written your original post, now would you?

Do you not lie yourself?  See my response to MSH above.  Do you not partake in illegal prostitution?  Even if you only visit legal brothels, if you were at a party and the subject of prostitution came up, would you offer your truthful experience?  If you were asked directly have you ever visited a prostitute would you proudly say yes?  I'm going to bet that you and MSH are liars or potential liars yourselves.  Please tell me if I'm mistaken.

I'm a realist, not a cheerleader. He should have NEVER involved more bit players in his surreptitious activities. Nothing negative about that advice.

What he will probably need is a good divorce attorney. Nothing negative about that advice, either.

Yes, you are mistaken.

Again, I am NOT berating you for lying. EVERYONE lies from time to time.

I AM saying that you were stupid, disrespectful, and inconsiderate to involve your friends as alibis in your surreptitious activities.

Why wouldn't I have written my post?  I was looking for advice.  Yes I should not have involved friends.  I said I won't in the future.  

Nonetheless, this hobby involves 'selfish stupidity' no matter who is doing it, including you.  You don't involve your friends, good for you.  It is nonetheless 'selfishly stupid' to break the law and to risk contracting STD's.  There is selfish stupidity committed by everyone in this hobby.  Congratulations, perhaps you commit one or two less acts of said selfish stupidity than I do.  But you still commit others.  Hardly a reason to preach the moral high ground in my opinion.

you are mistaken..your rationale is full of self made assumptions..my friends and family know that i hobby..i have no reason to lie..i am single..you are married..i have nothing to lose..you have a whole lot to lose..it sounds to me like you are running scared..that has to be uncomfortable..you have to live with yourself..i dont..

It's disingenuous and stupid of YOU to accuse others of "preaching" to you after you've asked them for advice.

But I can't say that I'm surprised given how stupid, disrespectful, and inconsiderate YOU were in involving your friends in your alibis for surreptitious activities.

But by all means please continue to RATIONALIZE your actions. It will give your divorce lawyer plenty of ideas for when the time comes to dispose you and your wife's marital assets.

You are correct I came here ASKING FOR ADVICE.  I did NOT come here to BRAG ABOUT USING FRIENDS in my 'surreptitious behavior'. So for you to lecture me on my selfish stupidity is the height of POMPOUS STUPIDITY on your part.  But you're too busy chastising me and my 'rationalization' to see that.  

And I already said it was wrong.  I knew it was wrong when I did it.  But this whole hobby is wrong so it was just another wrong decision in the interest of selfish behavior.  

And unless you're clairvoyant or know who I am and are going to 'report' me, you do not know that I will visit a divorce lawyer any more than you know you will not visit a defense attorney.

Now grow some humility and intelligence please.

In my entire life I have never been caught cheating on a  GF .
 
  I have never used a real friend as an excuse , only imaginary friends . I go to ringer menu ,
 ring my phone , answering in front of the GF.  " Thanks JIM , I'm not up for poker tonight
maybe next week "  

I would never use a friend as an excuse  . You should  only trust yourself
 with any negative secrets .  The most successful diamond thieves work alone,
  absent of the  snitch factor  .

It's a small world Charlie Brown . Most of us have gone to a different state or country and
 seen someone on the street we hadn't seen in years .

As much info as you have given on this  thread , if your friend is a TER hobbyist who
frequents the boards or an anti hobbyist  stalker here , you are busted .


 

 

 

True.  There is always potential for getting busted.  And the more people you involve, the greater the risk.  The more providers one sees, the greater the risk.  The more times one sees a single provider, the greater the risk.  

It's amazing to me how many people here are predicting I WILL get busted, and by implication, sometime soon.  I really don't know why any of you are so confident of that prediction.  Of course I hope I don't end up eating those words.  But I cover my tracks well as I am sure all of you do.  If it happens, it happens.  But I see no real reason why it should happen anytime soon.

S

If by "cover your tracks", you mean stupidly, disrespectfully, and inconsiderately involving your friends, who have a greater likelihood of conversing with your wife as time passes, as alibis in your surreptitious activities, then yes, you do cover your tracks.

Can't tell you the number of times the "friend" ends up being the star witness in divorce hearings and it's always for the wife lol.

Bingo. Spot on.

Usually the "friend" does so in self-preservation as to convince HIS wife that he has nothing at all to do with the surreptitious activities of the divorcing parties.

yes.  unquestionably prep your friend in as mild a way as possible. "if it comes up, buddy, you and I stayed out a little later than you thought"  no details if you can avoid it but better a prepped friend thinking you like Me Time or strip clubs than caught in that moment of silence where no answer will save you.

I've been there.  The one time I let my guard down and did not prep a buddy, sure enough, he runs into the gf and I've got some 'splaining to do for the rest of the week.  never again.

Thanks for continuuing the insults.  At this point it's becoming obvious your insulting comments have more to do with your pride than anything else.

For the umpteenth time: it was wrong for me to involve friends.  I only did it twice.  I don't intend to do it again.  And, again, it's inappropriate for you or anyone else to lecture me about it when I didn't come here bragging about it.  Stop beating the dead horse.  Offer something constructive rather than destructive for a change.

Thanks for all the replies folks, despite the handwringing with some of you.  

The course of action appears to be a) do not contact friend during visit to his city.  The odds of running into him are small.  If for some unlikely reason I bump into him, I tried calling but couldn't reach him.  He never returned the messages I left with his secretary.  Wife brings up our wild night.  He looks puzzled and plays along or denies.  If the latter, I admit my gambling habit later.  I drove to the local casino and pumped some cash into the slot machines.  "Sorry honey, you know how i like to play the lottery.  I just wanted to try and win something big."  Should cover it for the most part.

The local friend gets prepped on my gambling prior to the next professinal get-together potentially involving the wife.

No involvement of friends ever again.

Any thoughts on that plan?

Hard to say how successful your plan will be over the course of time. You should research and line up a good divorce attorney as a fall back plan, just in case.

Good plan.  I assume you've researched good attorneys in case you get busted by LE.  I suspect I'll cross that bridge if I get there.  Hopefully I won't.  I think I'm pretty good at acting convincing in a lie.  It's kind of like George Costanza on that one Seinfeld episode where he said before taking a polygraph test: "It's not a lie, if you believe it".

I don't have a friend out there that wouldn't cover for me just as I would do the same for them.   If you think he's not a good enough friend then keep him out of it all together.  As a cover story, I like the idea of the gambling thing.  It doesn't involve him and if someone does pin his ears to the wall he wasn't there anyway so he would have nothing to contribute to any conversation.  If not that, then the idea of not even calling him at all would suffice although, but would there be a chance of it coming up some day in the future?  I go back to the gambling story  I'd even go as afar as tell your friend that the story is that it was not a "wild night out" but it was a late boring night with a few drinks at a sports bar or something like that.  This way there's not much to bring up like: 'What did you guys do?.... 'Where did you go?'  If it's a boring story there's really not a lot to talk about and it will pass in time.  If your friend doesn't want to go along with it then I guess he's really not a friend.

It goes both ways. A friend would not involve another friend in an alibi to cover up surreptitious activities without first clearing it with the friend (especially if the friend is married or in a committed relationship).

Nice rationalizations there. You should also add "My wife is a very understanding person and will completely forgive me" to your list. Good luck.

Pardon me but I have to ask you a question. Do you suffer some sort of panic attacks? Are you on medications that reduce the anxiety and fear? Because it does seem if you  really do have a high end education , you would be cleaver and charm your way out of being caught.

Sorry just asking cause your replies seem paranoid and  full of panic

That's funny.  No major paranoia or anxiety here.  I tend to argue vociferously when I disagree with the logic being thrown against me.  In this case it was multiple people predicting I'd be busted soon.  At the end of that post I said I didn't think it would happen.  If I were truly paranoid I wouldn't be in this hobby at all.  I also didn't care for other insults thrown at me by one poster who seemed to be fixated on one facet of my original post and not on the true request I had made in that post.

She'll send me 6 feet under in a heartbeat.  Maybe I should be more paranoid.

I usually see this guy once every 10-15 years.  It's unlikely to come up in the future if I avoid him now.

This friend (me) didn't really think he was involving his friend at the time since I didn't ask him to do anything out of the ordinary.  Same with the other friend.  I now realize, mostly from today's banter, that I did involve them and thus won't be doing it again.  

Have we beat this topic into the ground yet?

So how does that make you feel?

And to those that I am close to. I also have told others in order to change minds. Those I don't tell, I don't lie to, I just omit information that is not their concern.

That being said, I have lied in the past and feel most here have. You were sloppy. My advice, give your friends a heads up that you need them to cover, and never involve others again. If I was your friend I would cover for you but I would give you the riot act.

past all shame..so past all truth..

mean we can't see the writing on the wall. You saying what you did about judgement is like me saying because I am a hooker I have to think it's ok to provide with a child in the damn room...because afterall, I am lying or doing something immoral anyway. Your situation is rare, and there is a reason for that. Most of us do not involve our friends or family in our actions such as this. You did...now deal with the fall out.

part in ONE common activity, does NOT mean we have to be cheerleaders for every stupid action another makes. I don't believe in incest or abortion either yet I am a hooker...does that make me a hypocrite? I think not, because I am not putting others down for the very thing I am doing. I think people need to stop this all for one shit, because it does not add up. Just because I partake in the hobby does not mean I condone other acts of lying or deceit because I don't. I don't invlove my family or friends in my lying, nor do many others here. When you come on a discussion board to air YOUR mistakes, don't chalk it up to "well I did not ask for any opposing views" because you are going to get them anyway.

-- Modified on 4/27/2012 5:30:42 AM

I have heard it all. Think about that for a minute babe. If he is willing to lie for you in the face of someone you "claim" to care about, what would he do if the reverse were also in play? Some people need a reality check. Friends are not friends because they allow you to get away with things that could potentially hurt you in the end...at least, mine are not. They tell me to my face if I am being an idiot, selfish, or destructive and that is why they are my friends...not because they allow me to behave in a reckless manner by involving them and possibly their loved ones.

Exactly. Frankly, I'd be pissed and disown any friend that involved me as an alibi for their surreptitious activities without checking with me first (and I'd tell them "NO").