I don't experience it as degrading. And, a good sign of a relationship that is working well, is when both people can take turns pleasuring the other, while receiving little or no pleasure in return. It doesn't always have to be a power or control issue, though I see that's your cup of tea.

Of course many people think having sex for money, or the act of paying someone for sex is degrading as well. Just don't count me in that group either.

MY ATF loves giving oral as long as the guy she is giving it to is OK with returning the favor. Why?  She feels she is actually in MORE control of the situation, not less, when she is using her mouth to satisfy her partner.

Is it erotic for me? Very much so. Giving AND receiving pleasure is always erotic.

You can SOMF all day long as you promise to shower me frequently.

F4ck my face!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look i'll pay you for it...wtf(David Lee Roth)

It can only be degrading in my opinion if i am either forced or "manipulated" into doing it against my will.

LIna

I've known many women that get great pleasure from giving oral sex, and voluntarily do it for extended periods of time without any encouragement from me.

As a man, I also get great pleasure from giving oral sex to a woman, and don't find it the least bit degrading to be covered in her juices or having my head treated like a bobble toy between her thighs as she orgasms.  After all, that's the whole point.

So while I can't speak for everyone, I think this is another case of the OP projecting his or her attitudes about oral sex onto others.  If you think it's degrading, it is.  If you think it's great fun, it is.

If I found it degrading I wouldn't do it.  If I thought I was degrading my sex partner (GF or provider, no difference) by having oral sex, I wouldn't do it.

I don't mean to pry if that's too personal, but your posts always fascinate me and I wonder the process that brought you to where you are today.

Is it something you always felt growing up, or did it evolve as your sexual experience increased and you discovered what pushed your buttons?  Whatever path you took, I think it's great that you proudly embrace it and understand it as thoroughly as you do.  And I guess that's the point of my question, I'd like to understand it too.

Girl whos self esteem is so low that she would allow someone fuck her with a paper bag or guy who is so traumatazed by being repeatedly raped as a child that he feels need to humiliate other human being that way.

Lina

It's really true that achieving happiness in life usually starts with two words- "know thyself."

Your life's journey has a very happy ending, but it could have easily taken a different direction.  I wasn't in any way thinking of my sister when I asked you that question, it was only as I read your response that I realized that she too is a submissive- but one that has never come to grips with what that really means.  She's spent her entire life miserable, self-loathing, and being taken advantage of by the wrong people, both in her work and personal lives.  Since she's never accepted or understood her true nature, she's known almost no happiness.  She's now 63 years old and there hasn't been one day that wasn't in some way a conflict or a struggle for her.

By comparison, you have found a safe harbor with a man that loves you can cares about your well-being.  And most importantly, allows you to be yourself.  He probably realizes what a rare gift you are as a wife, as well as the tremendous responsibility he has to you.  Because devotion such as yours could so easily be abused by any man that didn't have good intentions, or wasn't aware of his own character.

You've always impressed me as a very smart woman and I think the fact that you've figured all this out and learned how to make it work for you is remarkable.  It's even more impressive that you're able to work as a provider, given that so few men are deserving of your giving nature.  But this is where truly understanding yourself is so important because you would detect any unhealthy situations immediately and not see those people- you've said as much in your postings.  This is an ability my sister never developed, and she's also a smart woman, so it really isn't easy for some people.

To see you as a provider must be a truly special experience.

OK, be honest on this one.

Is there something about giving oral sex that is a little bit 'degrading', if we are honest?  I am not saying, with the one you love, you want to so pleasure them, and that is the goal.  However, because the giver is not really getting pleasure (pleasure of giving) and also the position, being lower...it just seems that there is some element of power exchange, and is that part of why its erotic?

I mean, when a girl is getting a pedicure, there she is up on the 'throne' while someone is working on her FEET, it has a simialar element.

Isnt it kind of erotic just to sit back and have someone working totally on pleasuring you?  

Not interested in any politically correct answers, just if you see what i am talking about an does that contribute to the erotic nature of oral sex?

I've never felt lower by giving nor did I ever felt like someone was lowering himself by giving but I see what you mean and I'm sure a lot of people would agree with you. However, during a pedicure it has crossed my mind a few times that's why I tend to tip a lot as I don't have that need to feel superior

without that pleasure (well, until the hobby, LOL).  Let's not drape that particular action with anything other than what it is.

For instance, I get immense pleasure from "performing" oral on a woman; I don't feel degraded at all.  From most of my experiences the women enjoy both giving and receiving.

Let's not try to cast too bright a light on this.  I think the community is working just fine....

Receiving for the sake of receiving without the need to return, is a basic element (IMO) of oral, whether in a completely mutual civvie relationship, or not. Giving without attachment.

For the (usually guys in our case, here) receiver, it is freeing to be the client and receive oral for three reasons, at least:
   1) The psyche is unencumbered by any need to reciprocate the pleasure. Rightly or wrongly, this is a big deal, I think, for men and women in our society. The emotional need for quid pro quo.
   2) The power element as you describe. This can be enhanced by the position of the one giving the oral (i.e. on their knees).
   3) The act of non-reciprocal oral attention also has the element of feeling completely accepted without conditions, which is much of what CIM and NQNS is about (for men).

I do not accept the degrading hypothesis. Certainly certain things could fall into that category. One that comes to mind is the facial, but even that, IMO, depends on the people involved, and is why I think it has appeal for some (I include myself here). There is another element here, for me, of being equals, which I think makes something like CIF to not be degrading. Certainly, something like CIF as part of a power/control relationship could be considered degrading (which might be the appeal for those two people involved).

The whole thing about power and control is very interesting from a psycho/sexual/etc perspective. Assuming the provider is doing this willingly, and has chosen this over other viable options for creating income, it is my opinion that the power balance is generally on the providers side (despite the very real physical risks).

Finally, we cannot ignore the very real experience for the provider as being the one to receive the value (money) when the clients wish to perform oral, or the very real psychological aspects of penetration (whether oral, vaginal or anal), which apply to the penetrator as well as the penetratee. I cannot speak to the psychological aspects of being the (paid) provider when receiving oral or penetrative sex. I can imagine, to a degree only as my psyche is limited in a hard way by the fact that I choose to not be a receptive partner in sexual relations.

Hopefully, some ladies will comment and either confirm, debunk or expand on my junior shrink thesis.

One last aside about the hypothesis of finding the act or oral degrading... much of one's perspective here hinges on the persons overall relationship to their own, and others, sexuality, and how they feel about their role in this P4P arena. Therefore, you never really get a truly clear picture because you have no way to evaluate what baggage each respondent is bring along for the ride.

I've had too many GF and providers that truly enjoy oral sex and state just the opposite.  That being able to control a man so completely with their mouth is empowering.  I guess If you did not enjoy oral sex then that might be different; but then I would be seriously questioning a providers career choice. IMHO.
Doc

as with all things, any generalities will always be proved false when applied to the population at large. i am one who is fascinated by the psychological dynamics of sex, in all its forms, so i tend to spend more time analyzing such things than most. i also happened to be wired submissively...not simply in a sexual sense, but in an overall personality sense. hence i will be effected differently by certain experiences than those who are not wired in such a way.

i strongly dislike (nay, HATE) receiving oral sex, primarily because regardless of the giver's personality or nature, it makes me view them somewhat submissively...they are physically beneath me, and the overwhelming majority of the time, they wish to please me. and nothing makes me more uncomfortable and uptight sexually than being with a man i know consciously wishes to arouse me. i am only comfortable with partners who are focused on their own pleasure, and on my ability to give them that pleasure. that alone is where i find peace and erotic bliss.

so when it comes to GIVING oral sex to a man...i adore it. it is immensely pleasurable. my sole focus is his pleasure and fulfillment...my mouth becomes a tool for his use. i absolutely do NOT feel degraded...rather i feel purposeful, useful, and as that is where i am most content, it really cannot be beat.

however i know of many women who enjoy giving oral sex for quite the opposite reason...they feel powerful in their ability to control a man's pleasure, it gives them quite the ego boost and they view the male as mere putty in their hands. that is because their nature is not like mine...they are wired quite differently.

so it is not the act which makes something submissive or not, degrading or not, powerful or not, it is the complex mentality of the individuals involved in the act which defines it.

I can see all the points made here.  For me, it is a power thing, degrading factor thing, but I enjoy it!!!  Let me explain...Giving is powerful n that I'm n control or it can be degrading and make me feel like a dirty little bitch when n certain positions! Luv it!
Recieving, I feel like a queen being serviced.  I can sit back, relax, and enjoy or I can be aggressive and domineering and shove your face in there! Depends on my mood...and yours.
Power and Degrading don't have to be negative words....Relax!  It's supposed to be fun!

As has been mentioned, a lot of how a person feels about giving/receiving oral depends on their personal baggage and perspective.  For me, it can carry a very mutual/balanced power dynamic, or it can be tilted far in one direction or the other (the giver having all the power or none of it).  With certain people, in a mutually agreed upon PE, I find it incredibly erotic to push the power dynamic hard in either direction.  I've also had several of these scenarios wander into TPE territory, but that takes a lot of trust between partners - which naturally takes a fair amount of time to develope.

I think if a gent enjoys PE (in either the dominant or submissive values), it should be discussed and accommodated in as far as the lady is comfortable.

hound_dog, you bring up an interesting point re: the psychological intricacies of the act of penetration. as a submissive person, the act of being penetrated is very intense for me...i never forget the fact that in that moment it is the man who is in complete control, who may do what he will. i trust of course that my partners will do me no harm, due to having some knowledge of and faith in their character and morality. however i'm aware that he CAN do me harm if he so chooses, just given the fact that he is the penetrating force, and i am the open receptacle. this reinforces my sense of helplessness, softness, and femininity...so yes, i love that state.

this is also why my least favorite position for intercourse is CG, as it almost gives me a sense of penetrating myself (freaky!).

LMFAO!  But really, I love both giving and receiving and, while it can be submissive when the gal's on her knees, what about when she's on top of you (either next to you on the bed while you're flat on your back, or in 69)? Personally, if I couldn't give a woman head it would take away a lot of the pleasure of sex.  First of all, the pussy is the absolute font of femininity, so diving down there is like going to church. I can preach a sermon to her pussy for hours.  Also, I love to turn a woman on.  She may be faking it, but if she's a good enough actress I will suspend my disbelief.
PS:  Does anyone remember the wonderful version of "Last of the Mohicans," starring Daniel Day Lewis?  There's a scene in which a British general dismisses French attempts to capture upstate New York because they are simply "people who make love with their faces."  Of course, in the next battle the French kicked the crap out of the pompous Brits.  Pussy-eaters Rule!

I agree to a point.  However, I am a giver and believe that it's in the giving that gives me the control.  Very interesting topic though.

xoxox

Casey

I have never ever felt in anyway degraded in anyway during oral and I have never looked lowly upon anyone providing me with oral gratification. I think perhaps there are those with some deeper feelings that may feel it is some how a dirty or defiling act for the giver and that the receiver is some how in a position of power. I always felt it was a very shared experience regardless of who was giving or receiving and beautiful, natural act. Everyone has different views on things and is entitled to such. There are different things that make us tingle and we all get wet/hard over different stimuli.

XoXo,
Savanah

What an intelligent, well thought out and articulately expressed response.

As with all things in a relationship regarding control and the balance of power...

We must consider the who and the what. At any moment in any relationship (emotional, physical, sexual, etc) there are many different aspects of who is more/less in control of "what".

This is why I love the t-shirts with the slogan, I have the pussy, so I make the rules. This applies even with a sub, to a degree. Yes, in the act of penetration, depending on the position one or either person tends to be more/less in control of the physical penetration. I wasn't referring to that as much as the  other aspects of control.

Thanks for bringing this piece in... for me at least. For the others???

On with the regularly scheduled sucking and fucking!

Nothing degrading about it at all.

I view it as pure power and yes power and control excite me.

Having some willing to relax enough to give up the power to me and enjoy the
pure pleasure of allowing me to please them ROCKS...

Even when getting a pedicure I don't feel like a queen I do feel guilty that it is percieved that way
and even more guilty for spending stupid money on that I don't have anything to show for after a week. But, I do understand why some women feel spoiled by it. It does feel really good...

You can make Oral degrading. but that depends on your style..  hair pulling, gagging etc. You can make it degrading if that is your thing... But, it does not have to be that way.

(eom!)

100% co-sign.  I have an equally dominant and submissive side though, I felt like the only woman esp for the reasons you gave least fave position was CG

Lol I mean that like get outta here in the nicest sweetest way. There's nothing at all degrading about giving oral especially when you want to do it. I suck a mean one and I love it lol. What's erotic is having a warm penis in my mouth and hearing a man SQUIRM.

Where the doc makes the chick put a paper bag over her head during sex? The girl comes back and says she looked up her feelings on the net and she's ok with it and writes her phone number on the paper bag? My surgeon didn't like that joke but I sure did.

that anyone is even interested amazes and delights me, lol. to answer your initial question, i realized the word for what i was...submissive...when i was 18/almost 19. however of course i always knew that i was different. it was not a discovery which revolved around my sexuality, it had more to to do with the overall picture of my behavior, thought processes, etc. as a child i was bullied a lot and that was in part related to the fact that i was such an easy target...i would never fight back or stand up for myself, i just took it, i always gave in instantly. by middle school i was doing other kids' homework nightly, often neglecting my own...not because it gave me any pleasure to do so, but because they told me to and i just couldn't bring myself to say no. and that was representative of my life as a whole...being desperate to please others, finding it almost physically painful to refuse or reject anyone, etc. and the older i got, the more intense and obvious these qualities became. when i became sexually active it was clear i could never be in a position of control, or even one of mutual give and take. 100% of my sexual experiences were initiated by my partner, and i couldn't imagine it otherwise. in college i developed a reputation as a slut...not because i was sexually aggressive or especially lustful (i was neither), but because it was known that i would never say no. i was actually extremely shy, quiet and timid, and really had no independent sex drive. but if a male approached me in such a manner i would give in, whether i wanted to or not.

so the reality is that i rather hated these submissive tendencies in myself...not knowing what they were, just knowing that it led to me being constantly used, abused and taken advantage of by others. i believed i had some sort of psychological defect (and my shrink at the time agreed). but finally, mercifully, at age 18 as i was online moaning and despairing to an acquaintance of the latest incident of being totally stomped upon, and how i hated life, he told me something very simple which would change my life forever: "you know, i think you're a submissive." and that led to the lightbulb finally coming on. mind you when he said "submissive," he was being quite literal...unlike many folks today who throw around the term to imply some sort of sexual kink or fetish. i realized that yes, that word did fit quite well. it explained so much. the next step was discovering along the way that not only were there other women like me out there, but there were actually men out there who find them desirable and valuable. it wasn't long before i found a Mentor, who then became my Master, and eventually became my Husband. that dramatic turn of events, in such a brief period of time, quite literally saved my life.

so to make an extremely long story slightly less long, i went from hating being this way, to loving it and finding great beauty and value in it. i feel chosen in some mystical way...chosen to help others, to serve, to give. and now i can serve without suffering and resentment, because i am strictly controlled and guided by a Man who loves me very much. so i serve only those who are deserving, and no longer the world at large. as Martha would say, it's a good thing.

trying it on everyone else to verify your problem is not a personal problem

I love going down on women, it is really pleasurable to me.

Keep your problems to yourself.  Pedicure comparison, you do really have a problem. Do you also think when painters on the painting your house, they are demeaning you?

Dude, get help.

The reason I ask is that it has been my only exposure to the subject, but mainstream movies rarely get it right.  Especially on any topic relating to sex.  Accurate or not, I really liked the movie and thought both Maggie Gyllenhaal and James Spader were excellent in it.

I personally love watching, listening, tasting and well using everything just paying attention to my partner while I am giving her oral. It provides me a thrill when my partner provides the subtle and not so subtle clues as to how she is enjoying the experience. Far from degrading, it is just plain fun to see your gal enjoy the moment.

I certainly enjoy being on the receiving end and I want to make sure my partner knows how well I am enjoying her efforts.

Everyone, if you take care of your partner, trust me in that she will be happy to take care of your needs.

Balboa

First you describe one physical act as perhaps being degrading, that of providing oral sex from a "lower" position. But then you describe another physical act, a pedicure, where the opposite is true - it is empowering. But don't the givers also feel empowered? I feel totally, absolutely great when I can give pleasure to my partner. Oral sex is a two way street. You won't sit there and take it if you don't like receiving it and you won't provide it if you don't like giving it. As usual, there are extreme circumstances where this might not be true, but by and large, it is. It's good to get and it's good to give. It's better to do both.

It is our judgement of "the thing", or our desire to have "the thing" be different, which causes the greatest angst (Ref: the four noble truths and the origin's of suffering).

I am not saying this is the case for you (lilli), but any behavior which taken to an illogical extreme will usually become problematic. Even a long term dedicated sub would have to exhibit dominance in some way, either through internal dominance of the ego, or externally in some way (even if by proxy with a dominant SO).

I know I am simplifying things a bit... thoughts?

...we could all simply be ourselves, without worry or negative consequence, and mankind could live in peace and harmony et cetera. but of course that world does not exist, and we must somehow struggle and scrap and hope and thrive as best we can in this one.

because of my submissive nature, it would not be possible for me to live an independent life...i would be far too vulnerable. that is why i stated that meeting my Master when i did, and such an honorable one at that, was life-saving for me. i was very rapidly heading down a path which could only lead to my end...whether through the cruel or careless hands of another or at my own out of pure despair and sense of utter worthlessness.

all submissive-natured people are certainly not in such a dire state...some have learned the coping skills and have the capacity to at least successfully (for a while at last) wear a mask of "normalcy" which can keep them safe from constant use and abuse. but it is like you say...it is about extremes. for whatever reason, there is no balance in my nature. i am not capable of submitting when i wish and when it is good for me, and then being assertive or authoritative when that would be good for me. for me an external controlling and guiding force is absolutely mandatory. but i would not say that i in any way "exhibit dominance" through my Master. it is his very active control over every aspect of my life...from the mundane to the critical...which allows for success. and to clarify briefly what i mean by the phrase "active control"...it is the difference between simply being given certain rules/commands to follow, and creating an environment in which it is quite impossible to NOT follow those rules and commands.

and receiving oral makes me very wet and horny.  I find both sides of the experience to be just what I want it to be....pure pleasure.  That is, if my brain is turned focused on what I'm feeling, not what I'm thinking.  It sounds like your brain is turned on in a different mode, Fetishorfetish.

though i agree with you in that it was a decent film, it certainly did not portray a relationship between a submissive person and a dominant person, and absolutely not between a Master and slave. however those two characters did provide an excellent example of a BDSM relationship. something many don't realize is that a typical BDSM relationship does not involve dominant or submissive personalities in the least, it is more of a coming together of people with a particular sexual fetish or kink revolving (primarily) around sensation and pleasure. i frequently have to explain to people that yes, i am a submissive, but no, i am not involved in BDSM, because mainstream media has mixed it all up.

there are actually quite a few mainstream films which accurately portray D/s relationships...from "The Good Earth" to "The Color Purple" and about a million in between. however my very favorite would have to be a movie from the mid-90s, "Breaking the Waves." take out the religious ideology, and i related to Bess all too well.

Years ago (5-6) I was with a provider and I asked her to perform oral on me while I stood up against a wall and she kneeled on the floor. She flat out refused stating that it was degrading and too submissive. I asked her why and she said she never would get on her knees for anyone. I assured her that degrading her was not my intention and that I just liked looking down at a woman's eyes and mouth while she performed oral on me. Needless to say it sort of killed the moment. I still went on and got off but I really rushed it and was done in about 20 and left.

I absolutely love doing oral. The more the guy is into it the better. So if he gets into it more with me on my knees, then so be it. I will enjoy it all the more. I have never felt degraded by it except for once, and that's because I had a client call me a bitch during the oral sex. I love a little dirty talk as much as the next person but being call a bitch has NEVER been a turn on.

OTOH, I do have an issue with facials and things like that. I think my face is too pretty to mar with your cum In fact, I'd much rather have it in my mouth but that's another conversation

Is there a way to contact you directly?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_human_sexuality