Well I feel that a lady has the right to screen regardless of 0 reviews or not. Safety is always an issue and should remain top priority
Even if a lady blurs her face, that doesn't make her LE. We DO have private lives such as careers, school and family so that shouldn't be a major concern for you. If you don't feel comfortable being screened, don't see her. Would it be the same if you never reviewed a lady and a provider may not want to see you for that reason alone? It's simple--lady without reviews+common sense screening=an excellent provider
Ok, I see a new lady on my regional board. She does not have any reviews. Other guys there were asking if she had reviews because she had nice body pics (face covered). She is asking for references before she sees guys and also for work/employment information, but she herself have "0" reviews in any board.
First of all, how do we know she's not LE or a scammer? Can't tell, right? .. so here's the question.
She just came out of the blues, no face pics, and she's asking for references from more established provider. Should you give 2 references (contact info and phone number) of your favorite established providers to someone who does not have reviews and has no background? Will that be putting your established lady friends at risk ? Are you ladies ok with this ????? Will you give your work/employment info ??? I would not.
If your answer is No - then let's clarify the rules. Do ladies without reviews have the right to ask for references and work/employment info in her screening process. Or is she being too unrealistic.
of course she has the right. She can ask for anything SHE feels makes her safe. You don't have to see her if it makes you uncomfortable.
I think I would feel better knowing she wants to be safe.
Antway, its your choice to cough up the info she requires to screen you or simply move on to someone else.
We were all new once. We all started out without refs or history.
What you have not answered is - would you feel comfortable if your clients just immediately give out your personal information to ladies with no reviews. Let's say there's a new lady with a blurred face (no history, no reviews, no nothing) and she could be a cop. And you are my ATF. She says she needs reference from other ladies - should I give her all your information - your phone number, your email, your website, your cellphone so she could contact you ? Would that bother you at all or not ?
Or should I at least try to protect you from that potential unknown factor (that she has no history)?
I think I would feel better knowing she wants to be safe.
Antway, its your choice to cough up the info she requires to screen you or simply move on to someone else.
We were all new once. We all started out without refs or history.
you should contact the lady who you want the refs from first.
mainly because I prefer to have a fresh reminder of who you are when and where I saw you. If I only saw you once and it was 6 months ago I don't concider that a good refs its too old and too long ago.
secondly I know to look for her email.
you need to value my privacy and discretion as I value yours so think before you give out names.
Now I have a website reviews ads and so on, I am nt utr so if they want to find me they know how already.
Nothing I would say about you in a refs is incriminating to me in any way. Just that you were a gentleman decent person and she would have no worries.
I would also check her out once she was to request a refs from me so I know who I am talking to.
You need to be smart before you go as far as to ask for refs. Think with your big head.
...to ask for references and work/employment info in her screening process?"
Um let me think about this for a sec... Hell yes she has the right! She has the right to ask for any kind of screening information she wants to ask for, just as you have the right to pass on her screening requests.
Are you saying because she is new, she is not entitled to screen for her safety?
Or are you saying because she is new she is not entitled to screen to same level of safety?
I'm not sure what you're asking.
She needs to feel comfortable with who she is going to see, especially because she is new, which means she needs to be especially vigilant in
in her screening process.
Maybe a really well seasoned hobbyist will give her the chance to put her screening skills to the test, and a really well seasoned provider, will be able to back her up until she gets the feel for whole process and feels comfortable on her own.
I dont know what I would have done without some of the ladies from this board, while I learning to try and screen on my own. They were an invaluable source of help.
Hats off too, to some of the stellar gentleman on this board. None of us got to where we are, without some help along the way.
If you feel uncomfortable, with the situation just move on. And as the ladies said, she has the right to ask for whatever she wants, whether she is reviewed or not. And you have the right to just move on.
I recently toftt and had a great time, the lady asked for screening info, I gave her what I felt comfortable giving and that was that. Maybe you should wait until the lady has some reviews.
But how stringent should her screening process be ? If I may ask, what was your screening process when you started.
And if you were my ATF, would I be putting you in danger for giving all your info - your phone, your email, your website .. so this lady (who may be a cop) could contact you?
I guess my point is - I'm just being protective of my favorite ladies, who I might endanger from an unknown person.
I guess what I'm saying is I'm looking at the other side of the coin.
Yes, I'm very aware screening is important for safety, especially for new providers. I'm asking for a discussion on the flip side. How that could potentially endanger established ladies if the newbie was really a cop, and I was responsible for giving away a lot of information about my lady friends to this unkown lady. I hope you get what I'm saying.
I feel every lady has to do what she must to keep herself safe that includes me. If you were a gentleman I have seen, you would not get a reference from me and I would be upset if you pointed her my way. Taking a chance on your dime is fine for you if that's your choice but what am I getting out of the deal to take such a risk. Always contact the provider you wish to use for a reference to be sure she wants her info shared. I always check the lady out for my own comfort zone first.
Does this lady have the right to ask for your personal info ? Yes, and I applaud her for doing so. It is hard for all ladies to get started and this is one of the hardest times I can remember to feel safe no matter what info a gentlemen may give you.
Kisses Haley
Every lady has the "right" to ask for whatever information she wants. You have the "right" to assess the risk and move on. Someone else has the "right" to meet her requirements if they assess the risk differently. What is your point?
First of all, how do we know she's not LE or a scammer? Can't tell, right? .. so here's the question.
She just came out of the blues, no face pics, and she's asking for references from more established provider. Should you give 2 references (contact info and phone number) of your favorite established providers to someone who does not have reviews and has no background? Will that be putting your established lady friends at risk ? Are you ladies ok with this ????? Will you give your work/employment info ??? I would not.
If your answer is No - then let's clarify the rules. Do ladies without reviews have the right to ask for references and work/employment info in her screening process. Or is she being too unrealistic.
Everyone has made great and valid points so far. I am still waiting for my first review and thus do not have any background, which makes it so much more important to carefully screen my potential friends. Not only for my safety, but also to maintain professionalism at all times. As the other ladies mentioned it is very hard to get established in the community and it is really easy to get caught up trying to break in. Especially when providers, considering their own safety and freedom, are unwilling to help as well. I could be overlooking this but I feel it may look bad on me in the future if hobbyists and providers found out that I saw a client(s) without screening. I doubt other providers would give references and established hobbyists would be very apprehensive. So I like to think her screening requirements reflect positive on her character.
But that's just my .02 which isn't worth considering I am new.
-- Modified on 11/11/2010 7:03:28 AM
I am interested in your statement that you are still waiting for your first review. How long have you been providing, if you don't mind me inquiring? I don't know about the other guys, but I get kind of pissed that so many hobbyists out there don't take the time to do a first review and essentially TOFTT. Personally, I look at it as a responsibility, either if the experience was bad or good. Also, if I've seen a provider posting very alluring photos for more than a month or so and keep getting a blank on a TER search, I've gotten to the point where I assume they have de-listed and tend to avoid. A recent less-than-positive experience has validated this assumption.
Well I started not quite a year ago (I was previously known here as msellej when I joined the community). Then I took a "break" for a few months I'm back . I'd like to think that had I not take the break I'd have my first review already. But my personal life came first. I needed to put myself in a position where I could be the best provider I could be. (It takes money to make money, and provide excellent service, in this biz). So i guess if you took away the break I have a solid 5 or so months of providing under my belt, which isn't much. But I do have an established provider friend that has been great and helped me get DC and RS2K verified. (But she was hard to come by, other providers are equally reluctant to reach out to girls with no background as Sensual Cleo mentioned.)
I know that was alot of info. But I felt like this was a as good a time as any to address this in case there are others probably wondering about my new handle, absence, and comeback.
Some points to make. First, there are MANY more guys on here than ladies - therefore, the chance is MUCH greater that LE will rear it's ugly head in the form of a penis than a vagina. Second, the ladies here are at risk CONSTANTLY - the guys, only an hour or two at a time. And third, I will post reviews when I want, and there are 1000 reasons that I won't. I have 3 reviews on this board, but have had many more liasons. I have TOFTT often. If I get ripped off (which I haven't), or have to deal with bad service or misrepresentation (which I haven't), I would certainly send out the alarm. I like you guys, but I'm not responsible for the success or failure of your next date - my bubble of responsibility extends out to the lady, and no one else.
To an unreviewed or newbie provider.
Yes, they have the right to ask for it, but you have the right not to be stupid.
hmmm interesting thread...but what I want to know is...if a lady is a newbie/unreviewed, she doesn't deserve to screen for safety?
Yes, they have the right to ask for it, but you have the right not to be stupid.
Of course, LE tries to make it as easy and tempting as possible. Low rates that are TGTBT and hot photos that may be TGTBT, and generally no screening.
Of course, if they were smart, they would ask screening info/questions to put folks at ease, but if the ads look too much like all the others they get too few calls...
What to do?!
A woman asking for a reference isn't asking about your "performance" - that's never discussed . This is nothing even remotely like a review. The question is: is he safe? is he respectable? will he provide the requested fee without argument?
She want's to guarantee her SAFETY - she wants to know she won't be physically harmed, robbed, degraded or jailed. This is a matter of being concerned for her life and well being. I don't think that can be argued with, and if someone can't respect her desire to be safe, she's better off without that person as a patron - there are better men in the world, the world is not yet devoid of gentlemen.
The argument against it is shallow, superficial, and out of touch with concern for her welfare. At some point her dignity as a human being should come into consideration - reviews or not. She is a human being FIRST and a provider second. The value of her life is not decided by her reviews, she has a right to protect herself from the first date.
If women new to the industry have no right to safety - then don't expect intelligent and respectable women to join the industry. No one in their right mind would blindly throw their well being to the wind.
There has to be an element of trust. Sorry, but I can't trust a provider with no track record.
It would be stupid for a hobbyist to risk everything he owns by giving out personal information to someone who could be LE, a ROB, or an extortionist. All that risk for a simple tryst is not worth it.
Ladies. It is not always about just YOUR safety.
It would be stupid for a hobbyist to risk everything he owns by giving out personal information to someone who could be LE, a ROB, or an extortionist. All that risk for a simple tryst is not worth it.
Ladies. It is not always about just YOUR safety.
I would be far more concerned about the sanity and trust worthiness of a woman who didn't have her head on her shoulders - in this business asking for references is a sign of diligence and common sense.
If you aren't willing to give a woman references - don't book her. But to suggest she doesn't DESERVE to ASK for references because she doesn't have reviews, is degrading.
We both get to make choices regarding our safety - asking someone to disregard their safety if favor of yours is self absorbed beyond words.
Comprehending what I am saying.
I never said or suggested that a provider, any provider does not deserve to ask for references. Look at my other replies on this thread.
Yes, I am self absorbed enough to not give screening info to a provider with no reviews who could be LE, a ROB, or was working the streets last night and saved up for a computer today. Simple enough for you??
I also don't give my screening info to drama queens or a dim star. Follow me?
I'll ask 2 questions in return:
Do you feel comfortable seeing a new provider with no reviews who doesn't screen? Are you implying that if she DIDN'T ask for references but was still brand new without reviews then you WOULD feel safe seeing her? If you answer 'Yes" I scratch my head in wonder. If you answer "No" then why should her request concern you at all?
What do you think she should do? Get a few reviews before screening at all? That sets her up for some really bad possibilities: psycho clients, people who will threaten her to cooperate with THEM or else. Then THEY write a review and now you think she's safe when the day before she wasn't?
Like it or not as a group the women in this business take more risks than the men. Their safety improves my safety. I have no problem with a provider starting to screen the first day she works and I would always encourge them to do so.
Do they have the RIGHT to ask for screening info to include references? Absolutely.
Do you have the right to pass. Absolutely.
She has the right to set up her standards the way she sees fit and nobody has the right to discuss if she should or not lower her safety guide lines. We put a lot at stake and we have to be firm in what we set up as our rules, prices, screening etc... However, when you google a lady's name if she has very little Internet presence, no web site or a web site that has little effort put into it those maybe signs that she could be LE. Not that she is, but when these same ladies without much Internet presence ask for references I'm always suspicious just because I have had way too many weird reference requests in the past, so you have the right to be concerned about giving all your real info such as legal name and employment to a lady with not much Internet history and my suggestion to you is if you do not feel comfortable enough don't get your penis do the thinking for you and move along. The web is full enough of ladies that you can feel comfortable providing your info. Yes we've all been new once without any reviews history but a lady who wants to stay under the radar by not advertising much and not having a good enough Internet presence also has to accept the consequences that gents may not feel comfortable enough to meet with her. Even when I was new without any reviews I signed up for soooo many advertisement sites and put the effort into a web site. Mind you I was in Canada not having to be concerned about LE so people weren't afraid of a set up.
LE usually do not put too much effort into fake identities, not that they won't or have not done so in the past; they can outsmart me anytime if they put the effort into it but they usually wing it so to me these are signs and I just don't chance it. Safety goes both ways.
Yall (heading to Dallas tomorrow so practicing) have to be safe and use your judgments to the best of your abilities!
Sensual Cleo
I like the back and forth here. People are thinking.
This does point out a weakness in the process. Providers demanding and vetting references is a cornerstone of the system. In the situation where a hobbyist has no previous provider references, other information can make up for it. However, there is no "other information" that is de rigueur for providers with no references to provide to hobbyists.
I guess there is an element of uncertainty in both situations. Hobbyists have datecheck, etc. What sort of solution would work for provider verification other than being well reviewed? It may not even be practical to resolve the issue and sometimes TOFTT is the only solution.
All the back and forth on screening and safety. How hard it is to break in to the hobby. Why we all should screen. I find all the different opinion fun to read.
I will see new providers when I hobby. I mean I have seen a first paid date ever new provider, yet I will not see an unscreened lady. There are other ways to get information. If she is new, does she have someone established who can verify that she is legit? Is her phone, email and/or website traceable to her real name? If they are traceable you can find out almost anything you want to know beside services offered, maybe too much information.
Now as for her request for screening information, she has every right to ask for whatever she feels is necessary to feel safe, with or without reviews. Hobbyist like me have every right to pass if it is more than he feels safe giving. In my opinion everyone in this hobby should screen everyone else that they do business with. Any that don't are taking a huge gamble and will sooner or later pay a very steep price.
By the way you should never give anyone more information than you can afford to have leaked and made public. You should not give out more information of your references than she has in her ads and/or website for public viewing without her express approval. Play safely with information as information is power. How much information is to much varies greatly based on individual risks and risk tolerance and is a personal choice.
Well I feel that a lady has the right to screen regardless of 0 reviews or not. Safety is always an issue and should remain top priority Even if a lady blurs her face, that doesn't make her LE. We DO have private lives such as careers, school and family so that shouldn't be a major concern for you. If you don't feel comfortable being screened, don't see her. Would it be the same if you never reviewed a lady and a provider may not want to see you for that reason alone? It's simple--lady without reviews+common sense screening=an excellent provider
rather other info (that I am comfortable with) to screen me.
Not because we have reviews. I don't give a shit if a guy doesn't have reviews, I want to know he's done this before and at least has a bit of history behaving himself alone with a provider. We are trying to make sure we aren't talking to someone's S/O and that can be mitigated by the hobbyist contacting us about the reference. I am happy to vouch for gent's who have proven themselves with me to a provider with no history as long as I have his permission.
First of all, how do we know she's not LE or a scammer? Can't tell, right? .. so here's the question.
She just came out of the blues, no face pics, and she's asking for references from more established provider. Should you give 2 references (contact info and phone number) of your favorite established providers to someone who does not have reviews and has no background? Will that be putting your established lady friends at risk ? Are you ladies ok with this ????? Will you give your work/employment info ??? I would not.
If your answer is No - then let's clarify the rules. Do ladies without reviews have the right to ask for references and work/employment info in her screening process. Or is she being too unrealistic.