If you were to actually research the subject of the percent of times providers roll-over, to LE, and give up a client, what do you think the percent would be. And, to that a study of the same, but when a john warns the provider, what would you say. If I was a gamblin man I'd bet on she wouldn't. Most of the ladies know they're really not going to gain anything from LE, and just get a bad reputation. Think about it!

So You Still Think Providers Can Be Trusted?

This guy did everything right except trusting the Provider.

He gets pulled over and questioned after the session.  She's been under surveillance.  Does he roll over on her?  NO  He keeps his mouth shut just like he's supposed to and they let him go.

He then makes the mistake of warning her.  What does she do?  She continues hooking out of the same fucking room, gets busted and then ROLLS OVER ON HIM FOR THE SESSION AND THE WARNING.

THINK ABOUT IT.  Especially when you next have the urge to Whiteknight or Shill.

That's ONE situation and individual.  That certainly doesn't mean that every provider would do the same...I know I certainly wouldn't.  That's a pretty broad brush you're using there, and with all due respect (even considering the fact that you're using an alias) that's a pretty ignorant subject title.

Don't know about you pal, but the ladies I know don't roll over unless it's for lazy doggie...

The lady was NOT caught in the act and was not busted and then rolled over on the client. You misread your own article.

    According to your article, she confessed to being a prostitute and knowing she was under surveillance when simply being "interviewed" by the police who had returned to the motel on an "unrelated matter."  She was not arrested at this time. Instead, the officer went to get a warrant based on this admission.

     We don't know the age of this lady but sounds like she was very young and so clueless about her rights as to admit to being a hooker without the police having any other evidence but "what are you doing here?"

    Having already confessed herself, is it really any surprise she told about the tip from the client?

Was seeing a provider who was working out of a motel...

Every now & then we should give someone the benefit of the doubt, right?


HH

same with any motel as regular incall with a high volume gal.

Nothing wrong with $150 session gal. But it's fair to deduce that at $150 she is not a s session per week provider. More like 3 sessions a day.

Nothing wrong with a 3-session per day gal. It's fair to say that 15 different guys coming and going in a 5 day week can draw attention. People aren't stupid about that.

Nothing wrong with a session at a Red Roof Inn or other budget motel. They can possibly offer a bit more anonymity that an upscale hotel. Many upscale lodges are especially watchful and work with local authorities to 'keep the riff-raff out.'

Put them all together however: Single woman + budget hotel + men going in and out frequently and what do you think you get?  Just like the article stated: surviellence.

You've been aroung the hobby and you actually think BACKPAGE is the factor here????

Think again.

Be smart. Be safe.


HH

is much too stupid to look out for you.

I have to confess, I would almost certainly have done exactly what the guy did, up to and including warning the girl that ended up being his undoing. I cannot imagine a scenario where I would not warn a lady given the chance.

I guess this is a case of "you can't fix stupid" and at the risk of offending the ladies and White Knights on this board, some of these girls are truly fucking stupid, there is no way to sugarcoat it. I have read thousands of posts where idiots of both sexes claim to do a "LE check", act as if a fucking "plain white envelope" is going to keep them out of jail, and as many other stupid, completely inane theories about the hobby and LE as you could ever imagine.

From the brief account given of the facts of the incident, I would think that getting a conviction will be much more difficult that getting the arrest, but if the guy is married the damage has already been done.

I guess the only real lesson to be learned here is to avoid "low rent, Backpage hos, working out of motels" the chances of any girl doing so to be as stupid as the girl in the article are way too high to bet against. and I stand by my original point "Stupid equals untrustworthy" and that goes for both sexes.

A seriously good criminal defense attorney will tell you two things to live by:

1) NEVER say anything to the police without your lawyer present.

2) When faced by police, everyone rolls over on everyone.

It is true that #2 MIGHT not happen. MIGHT NOT! But that is not the approach you take to be safe.

"Trustworthiness" is not a male vs. female issue. It's not a provider vs. hobbyist issue. It's a situational issue, and everyone has their own personal point at which they will roll over on anyone. That's life.

So... What are you? The fucking Hobbyist Messiah?

You are wasting your emotions and red face emoticons trying to evangelize others to change their point of view to yours, just because you have changed from a former White Knight.

So, you learned a lesson somewhere?

You are now more sceptical?

You don't run to a provider's rescue when her "honor" is questioned?

Well that's great!  Love yourself for it!

Now get real!

There are some that keep records, there are some that don't.

There are providers who will not roll over easy, there are some that will roll over at all. EVER!!!

And then... there are some that will sing like they are on Broadway the moment they see a badge.

If that bothers you, leave the hobby and get yourself some piece of mind.

Otherwise, be thankful you have gained some perspective, and don't beat yourself up if you find that you BELIEVE that you used to be lost and now you are saved.

Sharing your experience, thoughts, and ideas are a good thing.

Save the evangelistic message for the pulpit.

bro-hugs!!!


HH

even the fools who want to give every other woman on the planet the BOD.

Since I don't even play an attorney on TV, let me ask the "real" attornies here.What do you think the chances of him being convicted are?

Speaking as a lay person, I would think a conviction would still be an uphill battle as the girl in question is almost certainly one small step from being brain dead and would make a very unreliable witness for the prosecution. In a case of "he said, she said" I would think proving beyond a reasonable doubt would be difficult without any corroborating evidence to bolster her claim, especially where since she almost certainly would be "getting a deal" for her testimony.

and yes I realize the damage has already been done by the arrest, and the provider is beyond stupid and should be locked up for her own fucking good, not to mention ours. Just curious about the chances of actual conviction. Proving the call is one thing, proving the content of that call seems to be quite a different matter IMO.

After all of this, I still don't see what the guy could have done different, I would have done the exact same thing, unfortunately with the same fucked up results. "No good deed goes unpunished", but not warning her just doesn't seem to be a viable option to me.

At the end of the day the only lesson she will probably learn is that the way to get of out a bust is to sing like a fucking bird.

I still don't think I would have done anything differently than the guy in question.

This idiot provider really is not any different than the idiot hobbyist who rolls over and confesses all when pulled over by LE, even when they don't have a single shred of evidence to use against him. I guess this only proves that there are idiots, and selfish, ungrateful people on both sides of the equation.

And, there are ways to increase them. Whitenight is just a term thrown loosely around here, which has very little to do with how I reduce my odds. I just can't understand what your purpose is in relating this story. If it's to serve as a warning, thank you! If it's meant to change my point of view regarding providers, that's a pretty pretentious since, just as with any group of people, there are tremendous difference based on each persons maturity, life experiences, intelligence, etc., etc.
Now, if this story was about you, or you have actually had a provider roll over on you, I can understand your rant.

I, and im sure so many others are sick of your childish little fantasy, about YOU and YOUR girls, or should I say "posse" of hobbyists and providers that you so often brag about on these boards.

Your an even bigger fool than I ever could of imagined, making that statement.
YOU cant be that naive, or maybe you can be .

Or is this just another ploy to boost your ever so low self esteem, or suck up to YOUR ladies ??

Read on...and realize there is know loyalty in any illegal enterprise, let alone the real world.

Get off the WK train...and stop acting like a he-C - - T !!

Link is just one of many you may reference.

Ignorance of the Law is no excuse, especially for an attorney.
It's hard to imagine an attorney being so stupid to open himself up to an obstruction of justice charge.
 He KNEW she was being watched yet he contacted her by PHONE to warn her. Total Idiot!
 

but is it really the consensus of the board that it was HIS fault for trying to look out for the provider that he had just seen?

I can imagine the outrage if some guy had come on here asking for advice on what to do if he was detained, questioned, and released after seeing a provider. I would hope that most would commend him on having the presence of mind to STFU and that he would have been encouraged to have warned the provider to close up shop. I guess giving good advice to stupid, and untrustworthy people is now considered wrong. Granted the outcome was bad, and she proved herself not worthy of his good intentions, but the guy is not to blame, She is.

You use  an alias, but then can't spell out "Cunt?"  That's so fucking funny I don't know what else to say.

-- Modified on 7/25/2011 7:44:14 AM

OK, they got his phone # from the provider the next day and "compared it."  To what?  If the article explains that, then I missed it.  So I can only conclude they called him, or got his phone when they "interviewed" him.  If  so, WTF was he doing with his hobby phone the next day?  Did he have another appointment?  If so, I get it but he must be as horny as gambler.  If not, it means he was using his regular cell phone and is a not very smart lawyer.  I hope he gets a smarter one to  defend him in court.
If I've missed something here, would someone please point it out?

She's on BP too. Red Roof Inn is one of the only hotels in the area.

True. Texting would have been  more stupid.  The bottom line: She bears the majority of the blame for his bust when she became a low life snitch.
His arrest was proof it was  idiotic of him to warn her by phone. An attorney should know basic law. I've seen enough wiretaps for minor crime she would definitely not hear a warning from me by phone.
If he had not warned her, his mug shot would not be public knowledge.
I wonder if  he is smart enough to buy his dope from one person and not an intermediary or co op  , lest he be charged with conspiracy.
We are captains of our own destiny as long as we avoid detrimental outside influence.
Frankly I would trust no provider or anyone else when it comes  to staying out of jail.
I "might" have warned her if she would have met in the Hotel bar . I would have written her a warning note and swallowed it.
If she had kept her mouth SHUT, not admitting anything, we wouldn't be having this discussion and likely she would not have been arrested.
I do have sympathy for stupid people.
I hope he beats the charge and she gets jail time. No sympathy for snitches.



 

Then this lawyer is an idiot for giving them his cell #.  And it makes it sound even more certain that he had no hobby phone.  I guess he should have gotten a TER membership and visited the Newbie Board!  LOL! Seriously, it is too bad he got burned for doing the decent thing.  But it sounds like a lot of the damage was self-inflicted.  If I were called in under such circumstances I'd know enough not to reveal my hobby cell # and would have given them my normal cell #.  Hence, no match.  And since my hobby # is not connected to any name or address, it's useless to LE.

The info from the stop. They compared the CELL PHONE # from the Warning call to the screening info. Read the article again.

DAHUM....are you that worried about defending your buddy MP67 you cant spell CUNT with proper amount of "dashes" ??

I do like that one though " HE CUNT " much better than mangina or WK !!!

"The woman detailed for police what sexual services she provided to her client "Rich", the affidavit says.
"In exchange, 'Rich' paid her $200," Bernard wrote. "

I don't care what kind of legal technicalities analysis you normally like to engage in, that says that she rolled over on him pure and simple.  Does it matter when the actual arrest was made in deciding that she gave him up even though he tried to help her.

Then she specifically tied his warning call directly to him for LE.  How the fuck is that not rolling over?

"Police asked the woman for the client's name and she provided information from her appointment book, which read "Rich/2:00 Apt. $150" along with Mooney's cell phone number. "

Look, this isn't one of your Legal Corner hypothetical scenarios.  It happened in the real world where LE lies about being there on an "unrelated matter."  Besides, under your interpretation, if she wasn't even under arrest and therefore didn't even have a personal preservation reason to cooperate, then her giving this guy up takes it way beyond stupidity and into the unconscionable.

But then again, you keep looking for a reason that it's his fault like a good WhiteKnight.

if you think it was a defense of my "buddy MP67" that's a stretch.  First of all, he hardly needs me to do that, especially in this case.  But mainly, my post was only about the funny irony of someone being afraid to spell out CUNT on this board, especially from behind an alias.  Clear?

By having his name and number with no other prior connection to her such as previous relationship of any kind. Also, LE will testify that he was seen entering the room at the appointment time during the surveillance.  Put it together and he's fucked all over again. The dominoes fall from there.

The fold?  Even YOU can see the light if you just take off your blinders.

My guess is there will be no trial and only a plea deal.  First of all, the cops know how bad a witness they've got (more like a "witless") in this girl.  Second, the charges are not really that serious (I believe one is a violation and the other a misdemeanor).  So he will cop a plea to a a violation of some sort that will not get him dis-barred.  The real damage is to his marriage, if he has one, and to his reputation.  Relatively speaking, the legal ramifications are much less -- only a guess.

Norwegian providers will really have it tough now.

Thanks for being a voice of reason.

Oh, that's right. This is 2011. Finding a pay phone anymore is like finding a video store.

Too stupid.  
1. Appointment book??
2. Red Roof Inn???
3. Staying in the same room for more than a day??
4. Confessed. . .  WTF?  Never talk to LE; if you're arrested, STFU and ask for a lawyer.

Wow! I have to say that what she did was just not right at all. What happened to deny, dent, deny and doing what is right? I may not have strong feelings for my clients but I know that they are human beings with lives that I would never want to ruin. Just cruel of her to do that. Sad.

So there's a bad apple among providers?  I don't think that shocks anyone.  There are lots of great providers too.

There's more than one rotten apple among the men too.

What's yout point, don't trust anyone?

The girl has got to be dumber than a brick!  She was warned LE was watching her & stuck around / she went back the next day (or was staying in the same room she was working out of) so they could bust her?  She needed to bail outta there.  Most providers be smart enough to Get Outta Dodge...  
Unfortunately, she had serious case of blab!!  
Yes, a pay phone or a throw away...  don't even tell her who you are when you call.  

So many of us "Would have done the same thing"...  if we all cool off & step back, there are lessons to be learned here.

to argue that one individual characterizes a class of individuals. it is also incorrect to argue that the average of a class predicts the behavior of an individual.

logical and statistical fallacies in thought such as these are interesting only as examples of the kind of impoverished thought to be avoided.

i've had a bad or mediocre experience or two, but my faves are trustworthy.

You don't fuck providers because you can't trust them, and you don't go to jail.

Now, that wasn't so hard, was it?

Seriously. Why the fuck are you sticking your dick into people you can't trust? Are you an idiot? Do you not care about the legal repercussions? The STDs? The pimps? The underaged teens?

Oh, wait, it feels good? You like it? You get a rush? It makes you feel like a big strong man that you can throw some Benjamins down on a nightstand and get laid? Well, I'm sure every alcoholic, crack fiend and dope addict has similar answers for what they do- why they lie to their families, break the law, risk arrest and ruining careers and marriages. Doesn't make it any healthier, does it?

I, for one, am fucking sick and tired of getting lectured by people who tell us about these untrustworthy criminals we are hanging out with, and how we shouldn't be doing X, Y or Z. Um, hello, why the fuck are you ON this board? Are you not trying to have sex with these crazy bitches yourselves, and you're just trying to save us from our weakness? Are you crusading to end prostitution? Or are you just trying to go into elaborate self-justification of how you, Mr. John, are soooooo much better than those hookers you pay for?

Seriously? Knock off trying to prove that there are a lot of broken, damaged, fucked up people selling us sex for money. News flash: anyone who isn't a complete idiot or totally deluding themselves already knows this. The thing that YOU aren't admitting is there's a bunch of fucked up, dishonest, violent, criminal douchebaggery among the hobbyist population, too. There's a lot of dead providers out there. We're all kind of fucked up, because that's the human condition. It's doesn't take a hobbyist or a provider to have robbery, lying, trickery or whatever be part of the equation.

The other thing is some of us can enjoy the company of providers for what it is- with no illusions that they are saints, that they deserve pedestals, or that we're looking for a wife or a girlfriend. But we can do this while treating them with the Golden Rule in mind, and some of us remember that customer service jobs (let alone LITERALLY servicing the customer) are shit jobs when you have shitty customers- so try and be a decent one and it can make things better. Maybe it means we'll get burned every once in a while. But I've been lied to by salespeople in nice suits and ties, so I know that just because it's an upper middle class white guy doesn't mean I should let my guard down, either. And in the end, I'll try and treat people humanely, and it's worked out for me. Maybe when it doesn't I'll just stop trying to hobby, because, well, why waste your time on shit people when your hand won't rip you off, will look like it does in the picture, won't short you on time and won't give you shit for a bad review?

As far as being the voice of reason, I'm quite positive many would disagree with you, lol!

It's Whores like that that give us decent and appreciative ones a bad name. Please do not compare all of us to this dumb girl. I for one would have immediately closed down for the evening and been thankful that someone cared enough to think of my safety.

No need to call her the W name.....

A smart man will know, what classy is- and what isn't... Females working at those lacations, are not thinking about their safety. More so about the Money.

They let the money make them.  :o(