I have a wonderful client who had never written a review.  We did and overniter and we both enjoyed each others company immensely. He decided to apparently write a review and let me know it hadn't been posted.  WHY?  Not enough juicy details.  When he let me know I said well just include you DATY and came all over my chest or something.  He said he did.....TER I personally want to be sick when I've read how descriptive or embellished my reviews have been.  This leads me to believe why I had some postly lately that eluded to CBJ's.  Is that what needs to be written that we put ourselves at risk is order for the review to go up.  I would like to think we have evolved as a group (member's of TER) to realise that raunch descriptors is what keeps this in an ugly light.  Guys maybe I'm wrong but I don't believe the raunch is what is the most compelling thing that decides who you go and see.  I've been told looks defintely were important, attitude and atmosphere,  and did they do things you would desire.  The profile clearly gives everything you need.  I just think that elegance in writing here would definitely project a more positive picture for helping to change the perception of the world.

Cheridan...take a look at this from the L.A. Board...the thread was entitled "New Reviews"  

I can tell you for a fact, and so can many ladies, that we feel very strongly as do you.

so...what is the driving force here?  This particular post was in respoonse to a post by Mathesar who said that the more reviews, the better.  But we all know that here they'd better be explicit or else.  Sadly, I've personally given up hope that once an appetite for blood is whetted, it  will abate.


(Posted by Any Provider , 2/14/2002 9:31:09 PM)  


What does it take? I have been told by more than one reviewer....  

that reviews of me were turned down because nothing new was stated.  That encourages me to think that this is why some reviewers have embellished some of the reviews to the point of offensive and possibly harmful lies putting me or any provider at risk with potential clients after they discover she does not do these things.

There are also clients who just do not like to post explicit reviews.  I refuse to beg or try to persuade a client to spend his valuable time writing a review, especially when he tells me it has been turned down because it failed the porn test. Which brings me to the next point.  

I recently received an email from a lady describing a horrific incident where a client basically held hostage a review in return for further uncontracted services.

I am sure that lots of things go on, given what I see.  

Now my final points.

1) How often must a provider have a review to validate her worth in the eyes of the community, and what should she be willing to do to get one?

2) Seems to me the whole focus of being a provider (making a client happy) has changed (to marketing).  

3) Lastly, but not least, I feel very badly, as I don't need and never needed  reviews to "keep me in line".  I realize that reviews help weed out ripoffs, etc, but this is not my point.  I am referring to (needing?) an outrageous amount of reviews in order to be validated or even remembered.  I do quite well without a lot of reviews, but these statistics will probably show me as not worth my rate over time.

4) Low volume providers?  what do we do?  What is the review "quota", since we don't see many clients?



-- Modified on 2/15/2002 11:06:41 PM

I am becoming more and more aware that being a provider is a very, very difficult profession.  As if you haven't enough to deal with anyway the additional pressure from reviews must seem quite daunting.  

As far as the "juicy details" goes I've read a few reviews that have actually told me more than I wanted or needed to know.  So I can (almost) understand your situation.  But I'm not sure what the answer is.

Good thing I'm a guy--I don't think I could hack being a provider.

Very good points, Cheridan and Felicia.  As a client, I have mixed emotions about reviews also.  They help us out as clients making choices to spend time and money on companionship and entertainment.  On the other hand, they can get a little raunchy and sometimes be disrespectful to the provider.  I would like to think most of us who are respectful of the providers we see, who look for quality experiences (and know one when we get one), and don't have any major issues we are trying to work out by visiting providers, can read between the lines and sense who the high quality providers (and people) are.  

By the way, my personal experience is that, assuming the provider is someone who enjoys the experience and is not just going through the motions, the quality of the session depends as much on personal connection -- both physical and mental -- as anything else.  And that's something you can't really figure out until you actually spend time with someone.

I wrote something earlier this evening in the same vein (see thread re RB Christina in LA board-"Crying Over Spilled Milk") before seeing FF's post.

I wonder at what point of graphicness does the review stop becoming about the provider and more about the client instead? Is that really helpful to the stated purpose of TER? Yet TER encourages this sort of behavior, which really is helpful neither to honest clients nor honest providers.

What I find really problematical about the encouragment of graphic reviews is that escort service is by nature a highly personal, individualized business. To take a snapshot, which is what the review basically is, and have it represent standard expectation is unfair to both provider and client.

I also have mixed emotions about the reviews and do not have a solution to the issues raised.  But I wanted to throw a few more items into the pot.  I believe the easiest review to get published is probably the first one.  Since there is no other information about a provider I think staff will tend to publish the review because some information is better than none at all.  Everyone who does a review fills out the Provider Profile section.  However almost no matter what any reviewer says after the original reviewer the Provider Profile section reflects the input from the first reviewer.  I've seen a number of cases  where the profile reflects services that the provider probably never offered before or after.  The only reason that I believe know that is because the next 15 reviews were specific enough to say that she does not offer DFK, BBBJ, etc.  Why is this important? By the posts I read on the discussion boards and in the reviews, it appears that DFK is a big deal with a lot of hobbiests.  With others I am sure it is something else.  If the profiles were good enough the reviews could be much more general.  Also as an aside it seems that often the price of the services in the profile section do not keep pace with the current quoted rates.  I hope a better methodology can be found but I do not know what it is.

and this has been discussed many times in the past on the LA board. I have had many reviews posted (under a different ID) and many have come back to me "not explicit enough details" or something to that effect. Usually it was a matter of saying the same thing in a more obvious manner to have it posted. Most recently, though, this was not enough and it remains unapproved, but what can I say. I can't say things that didn't happen, nor do I want to say anything in a less than gentlemanly way.

The main topic of discussion previously has been why does the review have to be so graphic and explicit. You can inform the readers as to what occurred and how enjoyable the session was without being so explicit. There have been some providers who have stated that they request no reviews to be posted for this very reason. I've emailed the TER staff in the past about the need for such explicit details and the response has always been that that is the policy of the site and there were no plans to change. It is unfortunate that reviews may be embellished in order to have them posted as this type of review does not add to the knowledge base for the users, it only creates false expectations.

Just my two cents.

pt

I gave up.  I didn't feel that some of the details of a meeting should be shared and refuse to change in order to have a review posted.  I now will post short reviews only to the local boards and respond to queries about the wonderful ladies I have met when asked.  I know it's not the best thing for the hobby as a whole, leads to a lack of information, but I will not post explicit details just to be allowed to post a review.

DrX

I write very few reviews these days.  In fact I haven't written one in a quite a while.  That's because I respect the ladies I see and their express desire not to be reviewed.  In the instances where I have written reviews at the request of the lady, I approached them with a variation of the Golden Rule in mind: Treat a provider as you would have her treat you...with fairness, class and common sense.  

A review of anything is a two edged sword.  Writing a good review of a provider requires first a good experience and then elements of good taste and common sense.  Provider reviews are by definition for the purpose of providing insight into the provider and her services for the user of the services. The reader of the review is preparing to spend $$$+++ for an hour of the lady's time.  He is entitled to sufficient information to make an informed purchase.  However, trouble arises because most reviews are written first as the finale to the experience with the provider and as a close second, to enhance the writer's ego and status among fellow readers of reviews (The younger the reviewer the more likely the review is to be self serving).  The ladies are in an unenviable position. You're at the mercy of the person writing the review who is reeling from a testosterone high.  He has probably raced home from seeing you to his computer to write a review of his conquest for his fellow reviewers. If the experience wasn't what he expected for the money he spent you suffer.  If you didn't offer a service he desired you suffer.  It's not fair.  But that's not the only bad news.  The unfortunate part is it's human nature and I don't see it changing.

Here are the unedited explicit details of the last 18 reviews we turned down (yesterday) for “No Enough Explicit Details.”  You be the judge:

***********************
Awesome oral skills and very tight pussy.  Her tits are hard and fun to play with.  I will she her many times more.
***********************
SHE'S HOT BUT TOTAL BITCH. DONT WAST TIME
***********************
She gives a great BBBJ
***********************
We had wild time very freaky I will see her soon she is a 10 greta boby tits ass the total package my only regret is I cum too fast that sucks I looked like a dork
allow kissing, 69 and cum on her body  she did great cbj
***********************
our encounter unfortunately included a condom but was gentle and non rushed
***********************
I fucked her for about twenty minutes. Great noises and happy customer
***********************
I picked Lola based on her web.  Very hot BBBJ, no CIM.  came all over her big soft titties.  She could use a little work on the dirty talking though.
***********************
Model Material..Shes Beautiful..Major Kinky...Almost Anything Goes..She really enjoys what she does
***********************
she is worth the effort....she is fun, open minded and HOT!  She give a great cbj, fucks like a rabbit and loves everything she does and you do to her.........wow....
***********************
SHE SUCKED MY DICK, I FUCKED HER, I CAME...I WENT HOME
***********************
If you have taken the time to read Veronica's reviews, please do.... Everything everyone wrote is true. She is OUTSTANDING.. I mean it. There was nothing anyone wrote that she did not do. She is the best. I guess I can sum it up like this.... WOW WOW WOW W
***********************
Her Breasts are incredible!
***********************
Very basic approach -- a bit mechanical but she is so amazing beautiful that it  really did not matter.
***********************
She is great.  Killer body.  Great breast.  She is very erotic and takes care of all your needs.  I would see her again.
***********************
n/a
***********************
have seen heidi a couple of times and it gets better every time she is gourgous and sweet and you can talk to her for hours she makes you feel so important and the center of her attention
***********************
wasnt' much to brag about
***********************
Greeted at door in a beautiful white nitie.  Sat down for a glass of wine. There was light touching and kissing. Loved to have her pussy licked and loved to fuck
***********************


Are we being to hard on these?  Is this what you would like to read when you are trying to decide on a provider to spend your money on.  If so, we can approved them.

I will be the first to admit that sometimes we make mistakes in judging reviews.  After you have seen between 300 to 500 a day, it can happen.  

If you have questions on why a specific review was turned down, email me with the username and provider name. We can go over it. [email protected] Sometimes we do make mistakes too.

-- Staff


P.S.

Cheridan:  I checked into the review you spoke of, and it was fine. I approved it.  We have a couple of new reviewers on staff and they made a mistake.

TER, thanks for the response, we need to know your listening and willing to answer our questions..

I am also not in favor of explicit reviews.  As such, I have not submitted any in a very long time nor do I plan to in the future.  

In the beginning, I saw this site as one where we could filter out the ripoffs.  In time, it became more and transformed into some form of menu, as members of this board wanted more and more information as a decision-making criteria.

Granted, I have not been a VIP (does that mean I'm not important?) for a very long time, but I never did see how the juicy details section helps in decision making.  I think all the explicit information required is in the profile (e.g. she does x & y but not z).  Once I know this and the $$$, I look at other non-explicit info (e.g. neighborhood, ambience because I like to be in clean places, etc.).  I have never found any real value in a blow-by-blow account of someone else's session.  

While I haven't been doing this as long as some others have, I think there are a couple of basic truths:

Mileage varies and you get what you give.

In short, someone else's explicit details will not necessarily be yours.  What you get will be a function of the vibe you project.

Just my $0.02 for what it's worth.

Regards,

Talisman

First, what do TER hobbyists want? Information to make an educated decision on a provider or letters to Penthouse forum for masturbatory purposes? Personally, I'm not a VIP member and couldn't care less about "the juicy details" if all they contain is a play-by-play of some dude's encounter.

Now, in fairness to TER, allow me to explain my reviewing experiences. I've submitted three reviews, two of which were published. (I don't know why the first review I submitted never appeared. No one from TER wrote to me requestion more juicy details.)
In my two reviews, I never really went into an explicit play-by-play, but instead briefly expanded on what I liked or didn't like about the encounter. Besides, I'm a firm believer that attitude is the most important quality in a provider, so the physical gymnastics are almost secondary (although, I admit I'm also a big fan of DFK).

Also, as one earlier post mentioned ... Maybe my two reviews were posted simply because they were the first reviews of the providers. Plus, the providers were from Connecticut, an area which doesn't see that many postings on the New England board.

The reason I don't post many reviews is simply because, being a gentleman of modest means, I because I just can't afford to visit providers very often. However, I believe in helping my fellow hobbyiests, so whenever I see I provider, I plan to submit a review.

Finally, in my reviews I try to be extremely fair to the providers, and I'd say if I do err, it's in their favor. So unless the gal was a total ripoff, I'd definitely be polite. (In fact, the first provider I reviewed -- which was not published -- she did not provide intercourse, which I thought a bit deceptive on her part, but I still didn't totally slam her, even though she pretty much just laid there, speaking the most basic Russian.) Another provider I reviewed also didn't offer intercourse, but she told me up front at the beginning. But despite that, she provided a GFE -- sort of like a high school experience where your girlfriend says, "I'll do everything but penetration.

I guess I've rambled on long enough

Dear Cheridan,

My opinion diverges considerably from yours.  I believe that there is no disgrace or shame in frank discussion about human sexuality and engaging in sexual acts.  I do not feel that talking openly about prostitution and sexuality is ugly.  I feel that taking a prudish attitude towards detailed reviews further perpetuate feelings of shame in providers (and hobbyists), and makes them feel that what they are doing is wrong.  

I feel that providers and hobbyists should rejoice in their sexuality. Be proud of their bodies.  Providers should be proud of the pleasure they bring to men, and the men should thank them for it.  Detailed reviews bring prostitution into the light as a natural expression of human sexuality, and can we begin to rid our culture of the dated attitudes that have kept prostitution illegal and in the shadows for so long.  

Visit Nevada, or other countries, Europe especially. Prostitution and the commercialization of women is much more accepted as a valid outlet for human sexuality.  At Nevada brothels, they hand you a menu. There is little shame for the women who preen in shop windows in Amsterdam, or smoke cigarettes with their vaginas in Thailand.  These cultures take a more pragmatic, sensible view of prostitution.  They see it for what it is, a transaction, a business, based on a man's sexual urges.  To function, and allow people to find what they want, this sexual marketplace needs transparent information on services rendered.  This is what detailed reviews do.

As for providers being "pressured" no one is pressuring anyone to do anything, or bend any rules.  In fact, if a provider prefers not to be on TER, she can simply ask to be removed. Or if she sees a review that misrepresents what she offers, she can ask that that review be removed. TER respects all such requests (save for ripoffs).  Not surprisingly, few of the good providers opt for this.  As for pressuring women to do unsafe acts, I have never heard of a situation where a client became hostile over a provider not performing to her "reviews".  If these were to happen, that's not a review board problem, that's a bad client problem..  There are many men who do not seek BBBJ's, FS, or DATY for safety reasons, in fact, they may avoid women who perform these acts.  So by having this criteria, TER helps everyone understand what they are getting into.  

IMHO, providers often use the "explicit review" complaint as a
smokescreen to hide their real fear, lackluster or negative reviews.  I have yet to see a provider complain about a review, even if very explicit, if the review was overwhelmingly positive.  

As far as expectations go, any good hobbyist knows that YMMV, no matter how many reviews you read.  No one should ever expect anything, you just read the reviews, and hope that you can find what you're looking for.  If you read the reviews, and are sandbagged, the women isn't to blame (unless she's a YMMV girl), the reviewer is.  

As for whether or not detailed reviews add value over just the service facts (FS, BBBJ/CBJ, DATY, CIM etc.) I believe they do.  I appreciate a review that takes pains to really help me understand the experience, and what to expect.  There are many questions that the "profile" doesn't answer.  Size/style of tats, details on location, teeth, ambiance, ease of contact and booking, attitude, did she answer calls during the session?  Was she wearing heavy perfume?  Was there adequate parking?  Would the reviewer return? Why? Why not?  A good reviewer doesn't just wax poetic about the great (or not so great) sexual experience he had, he gives others a flavor for the entire experience.  A good comparison would be restaurant reviews.  Sure, you could have a list that simply had the restaurant, and what was on the menu.  You'd see this.

Dennys: Steak, potatoes, wine
Peter Luger: Steak, potatoes, wine

Is there a difference?  Yes, and without additional details, this difference is lost.

Do I also like the reviews as pornography? Sure, sometimes a particularly well-written review arouses me, and I masturbate to it.  This is just an added bonus of this site, IMHO. Men who write well, and are able to capture the erotic essence of their experience.  Again, IMHO, no ugliness in that.


sex is natural sex is good
not everybody done it but everybody should
sex is natural sex is fun
sex is best when it's 10 on 1

iceman

http://www.angelfire.com/retro/glossary



-- Modified on 2/17/2002 5:20:27 PM

Unfortunately, this hobby is not the type that you can discuss with the general public and this is kind of a forum for hobbiests to talk about there experiences.  Yeah a lot of them read like Penthouse Forum letters but boys will be boys.  When I've written reviews, I've tried to word them as carefully as possible, but sometimes getting to the point has a lot of merit.  I have been disappointed by reading something about what an SP did, expected it and didn't get it but chalked it up to YMMV.

Well I'll try this again.  Posted last evening but post didn't go up.  Must of been lost in cyper-space.  Thank you Staff---but I do hope your reading the responses and realizing some change would most likely not hurt the traffic here.  In fact it might actually increase it.  Crudity isn't necessary.  I would like to make a correction in my original post.  I stated a CBJ when I meant a BBBJ.  I do not do the later.  Although every so often it materializes and I think it is more the technique I use that would allow for the misinterpretaton but it could be because it made it juicer.  I would like to comment on the 18 rejections.  Even the N/A spoke mountains.  The only thing I saw with the 18 was they were rather brief, some flavored crudely with profanity but this is nothing new, and some extremely tasteful.  Brief is not bad.  Alot can be set with a few well placed words.  Whether wrote with elegant lingo or sharp adulterated crudity---I think censorship went out with book burning.  As stated in other posts the writer's give much away about themselves. When I have read some reviews I go yuk!  Glad it wasn't me.  But now I'm sure some were pushed to say more and graphically so I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt.   Thank you to those who posted as you have affirmed my premise.  Staff thanks again for the open forum for public opinion.

Hugs,
Cheridan

I happen to like providers and appreciate the service they provide. The more explicit reviews are not sensitive to their feelings at all. It's like they show us a great time and we call them skanky hos in kind.

There is a tension between the provider's privacy and security interests, both in the personal and penal meanings of the words, and the client's interest in receiving FMV for the fees he pays. I have long felt that TER has been guilty of skewing the equation in favor of the clients. The problem, I suspect, comes in the (erroneous) assumption that most providers are dishonest. It may have been the case before the Internet (when you had LA Xpress and later on, LA Weekly and New Times ads to choose from), but not so much anymore. The other problem with the explicit reviews is that instead of being a shopping guide for clients, it becomes a competition for some providers. My advice to these ladies is that you're only competing with yourself, and I'd look at it as more a job and less an adventure. These may be harsh words to some, but it is also the truth. From my POV, the ladies have always been human beings first, and not some automaton rent-a-hole.

Frankly, I don't need so-called "juicy details". I need to know if she's honest, professional, has a good attitude about working, and provides FMV. The rest I can work out with the provider in due course. You might want to look at the SF Redbook site and see if that better suits the needs of the group.

While I won't argue with those who either don't like/don't write reviews because of the "juicy details" requirement, I'm of the opinion they are both good & necessary.  Perfect the way it is?  Maybe not, but neither is anything else.

Money:  The fact that these details are included in the reviews surely increases VIP membership & therefore provideds needed revenue to operate the site at all.  I don't know of any other site that is comparable in the information provided.  It's what led to me becoming a VIP & maintain membership.  I'm many others have been similarly influenced.  The elimination of these details might well result in this having to become a pay site for everyone, which could even result in a smaller overall membership.

Profiles:  The details are helpful in determining whether or not the profile is accurate.  This way if we see something that we feel needs changing we can submit a "problem report" & the profile will be corrected.  An incorrect profile benefits no one.  

Details help to "judge" the review:  TER has a system in place the maximum point value for performance allowed in any given review.  While I personally feel ambivalent about this, it is TER policy.  While I'm not particularly a numbers guy, I will use them as one part ot the "search" function.  More importantly, for me at least, is that I feel an insight to the guy is sometimes possible.  If he's writes nothing but smut or just toots his own horn, I tend to give much less weight to his reviews.

Identifying untruthful reviews:  Without the details this would be much more difficult...for both the guys AND the gals to do.  It's almost aways something said in the details that leads to "proving" the review wrong.  I'm sure that's already hard for TER to do, but at least it's not imposible.  And I've said this so many times before...it's the HONEST reviews that are the driving force of this site.  There are other sites which I will not mention (many already know them) whose reviews I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw an elephant.  

Turn-ons/turn-offs:  The details can (& should) provide much more than a smut-type description of the encounter.  Whether or not she makes eye contact?  Whether she is a screamer, a moaner, talks in a sexy manner, or the silent type?  Does she like or use toys?  

I want to know as much as possible before scheduling anything...& that includes some sort of idea what the gal's personality is like.  Is she easy going or does she seem uptight? Can I hold a decent converation with her?  What's her sense of humor like?  Would I be embarassed to be seen in public with her either because of the way she acts or dresses?  Yes, these sorts of things can probably be written in the general comments, but the fact is most guys probably wouldn't do that to the same degree.  

I think it's posible to satisfy TER's "juicy details" requirements without resorting to something like you might expect to hear in the men's lockerroom.  "It's not so much what you say as it is how you say it."

BTW, (for anyone who might notice) while I've remained active in the hobby, the fact that it's been a while since I've written any reviews myself has nothing whatsoever to do with the requirement for "juicy details."

...I agree with all of these points, especially the fact that "details" help prove a review honest or false.  I would add another positive aspect of TER.  

Even "false" reviews are less harmful here, because if anything, they just mirror "honest" reviews that are already out there.  A reviewer trying to get some free time by writing a bogus review, will probably check other reviews to make sure his "jives" so in a sense, his "false" review doesn't skew her average in any direction.  Sure, he is free-loading, but this doesn't do the same damage as a self-post or shill post (or a slam) trying to hype up (or bash) a provider.  

iceman

just general comments as opposed to juicy details?

Great thread! I'm about to get "boo-ed" off the board, but come on guys! You dont mind the "Juicy Details" because they are not about you!

What if the post was about YOU! (the hobbyist) We dont get to review YOU! If the shoe was on the other foot maybe you would understand how we feel. Dont get it twisted, I know what we do for a living...but do you think you could leave us with a shred of dignity?

Do you want us to rate you? How would you feel?

Age: He said he was 50 but looked more like 80
Build:  Pot Belly...kind of like santa claus
Penis Size: 5 1/2" (and I'm being kind)
How Long Did He Last: Minute Man
Hair: Toupee (It kept flipping up,I prayed it wouldnt fall off)
Attitude: Pushy/Scary...Insistent about services I dont provide.
Rates: Cheap Bastard, he kept trying to re-negotiate my rate.
Tip: No...rude,he didnt even say thank you.

(this is just a compilation of imagined complaints, not talking about anyone specific, not that any of this has ever happened to me...it's for illustrative purposes only)

Was what I just wrote about men necessary? NO! And that's my point! You can dish it out but can you take it?

These boards were probably intended as the "Consumers Report" of our industry...to recommend some and weed out the rip offs. You dont think some men expect services they read on a review?
I had that happen to me...it didnt get "real ugly" but it was on its way...I was going to offer him a refund even though we had already spent 25 minutes together. Most hobbyist ARE gentlemen, but there are some sick b**tards out there who will:

1. Physically injure a girl for not providing a service he read about in a review.
2. Try to blackmail a girl by saying he's going to post a bad review (which will probably get posted since the "tame" ones obviously arent)

Its dangerous, period.

I've also spoke in the past about the legal ramifications of these explitic reviews. As probviders, our website and ads are out there for all the world to see. If LE decides to target one of us...all he has to do is read the review and he now knows at what point in the visit we are going to take the money, perform certain acts...basically he knows when to arrest us. I realize that it is probably not admissible (spelling) in court, but it does provide a guideline for LE to follow...they know our "M.O." Hey, why help LE arrest us?

Some of the reviews are just plain nasty. In one of the earlier posts on this thread someone said something like "Women are not rented holes", and that's what some guys write...a hole they rented for $$$ for an hour. Some men dont have any respect for women and that's their peragotive...but dont punish the men who do have respect for us by not posting their reviews.

You can check some of my old posts, I have always been modest about my reviews (all good)...they are so explicit. I know what I do for a living...but it's embarrassing to see it on the WORLD WIDE WEB where ANYONE can log on and see it (children...my parents!...). I dont think it's necessary to be so raunchy.

I have alot of "regulars" but not alot of reviews. I've learned that a few reviews for me have been turned down...I thought it was a "black thing" - but now I know why they were really rejected and I think its "stupid". If a guy has had a nice encounter with a provider and actually takes the time to sit and write about it (explicitly or not) then why shouldnt it be posted?

If a guy gets turned down enough when writing reviews he'll probably get discouraged and he just wont submit anymore. Here I am thinking all my wonderful clients just wanted to keep me Las Vegas's best kept secret and low and behold the real reason I have so few reviews is that their reviews just arent getting posted.

There has "GOT" to be a better way!

...they are not related.  A bad client is a bad client, regardless of whether review boards or details exist.  As you said, there are some nasty individuals out there, and there were bad clients long before "juicy details", TER, or even the Internet.  I don't think the advent of review boards has somehow increased the percentage.  I do not believe that review boards make men "more" nasty somehow, or that a nice guy will suddenly become a pushy, hostile, bastard because he read a few explicit reviews on TER.  It doesn't work that way.

Also, your example of guys "blackmailing" a provider by hanging the threat of a negative review over her head doesn't ring true. I've never heard of this happening, and even if it had, again, it's a small percentage, and it's a bad client issue, not a review board issue.  Should we throw out our review boards just because a few bad clients idiotically think they can use it as leverage?  Only a thug would think threatening anyone would ever work to get better mileage.  Doesn't make sense, and only a bad client would try it.  
 
As for reviewing us, that's a moot point, it doesn't matter how ugly, repulsive or sweaty we are, we're the ones paying.  If you were paying us, now that would be a different story.  Does a restaurant review it's customers? Never.  Sure, the waitstaff might snicker at customers behind their backs, and of course we all know providers have thousands of funny to downright scary stories about clients.  But only a very foolish provider would take these thoughts public, (unless the man is an outright threat to safety), it's self-defeating.

Also, as for men writing misogynist reviews, I just don't see the evidence.  I'd love for someone to point me to some of these horrific, degrading reviews, that have no respect for women, treat them as "holes" etc....  Maybe in other cities this is a problem, but I've tracked the Seattle board since it's inception, reading every one of the several hundred reviews posted.  Not one have I found demeaning, degrading, or misogynistic, even the very graphic ones.  In fact, more often, the more explicit, the more sensitive.  It's the short 2 sentence "details" that come across as unfeeling and uncaring, IMHO.  Of course, this is a subjective opinion, and I realize that some consider details in and of themselves degrading.  But I have yet to feel that a reviewer was truly disrespecting the woman in a review, and if he was, I would certainly let him know, and post a problem report.

Its not too late
to whip it
whip it good

iceman

"Details" about my place etc, were one of the ways I used to screen in conjunction with several other things, of course.

Not any more.  Too many details have become public knowledge,so ANYBODY can now say they saw me by describing those "certain things"  gleaned from reading my reviews.  

My simple reaction:  Tighten up the screening even more.


-- Modified on 2/18/2002 12:10:47 AM

I have seen several posts where women claim this could happen, but I don't know of any actual incidents of this.  As you state, if a client became physically abusive or threatening because a provider did not perform an act he had read about, then HE is a problem and probably would have pushed for what he wanted even without the review.  Look at all the guys who get ripped off by cash-and-dash girls and no-touch dancers.  Those guys are REALLY pissed, and I've heard of only a few instances of violence.

I suspect that what many of these providers are really worried about is receiving a review by a disappointed client.  Some guys understand YMMV and some don't, and discerning readers can tell the difference.

...not in the sense of being titillating or sexual, but "juicy" in the sense of being crucial information to know.  Personally, I feel that caveats are the single most important piece of any review, even more than sexual details.  Frankly, I don't really care so much about what was right in a session, I want to know what was wrong.  I concur that the profile covers most of the basics for sexual acts.  I mean, how wrong can you go with a BBBJ? LOL.  What I want to know about are any  "surprises" that the form data can't reveal.  IMHO, there is nothing worse than being surprised negatively in a session.  The juicy details section are where guys can bring these issues up.  

Caveats about heavy perfume, heavy smoking, attitude, mid-session phone calls, looks, surprise tatoos, styles of dress, etc. in my book are all "juicy" details that often are tough to understand just from the form data. These details give this board value, and I never post these in the general comments section, nor do others.  A good example of why "details" are important are tattoos...sometimes the numbers don't tell the whole story.  Here's a related post:

http://theeroticreview.com/msgBoard/ViewMsgBody.asp?BoardID=13&SortBy=DateCreated%20desc&Search=tattoos&SearchType=1&DayFrom=300&DayTo=0&Submit=Submit&Messageid=512

Another example, and an experience I had recently, was a provider with very bad teeth.  Nothing in her pictures (all close-mouthed), or in her form data, could have ever told me that she had long, widely spaced, smokers teeth.  There were other reviews, but no one had mentioned this fact.  A few of the "looks" numbers seemed not to jive, some guys had her a bit lower than what her photos would seem to indicate, but I was guessing it was because of extra weight.  So there she was, the cute face and nice full lips that I had for so long admired on her site, until she smiled.  YIKES!  Again, these are the surprises I want to know about.

So no, I don't feel my examples were "general comments" I save these nuggets for the "juicy" section, even though they aren't sexual.

mirrors on the ceiling
pink champagne on...

iceman

...and are therefore less damaging to the integrity of the review record than a shill or self-post would be.  But certainly in terms of using reviews as a screening tool, yes, I can see how they blow up your system.

iceman

-- Modified on 2/18/2002 12:37:22 AM

voyeuristic curiosity.  I agree Prof. Night, I don't care to read about some other guy's imagined AVN winning perfomance.  It does me no good, because even if it happened (which is sometimes doubtful), his experience will be different than mine- for better or worse.

We've talked about chemistry on this board before, and the role it plays in determining what direction an individual's session may take. Since none of us can be guaranteed the same results as the previous reviewer, all we really need from a review is a basic framework to assist us in establishing a compatibility judgement.  From then on, it's an individual thing from the moment she answers the door and sees your smiling face.

When I read a review, I want to be informed (or warned), not titilated-  I'd rather save that for the session itself.

I just wanted to clear up and reiterate my points.

1. These boards were probably intended as the "Consumers Report" of our industry...to recommend the good providers and weed out the rip offs.

2.. You are right, you are paying "us" so "you" dont get reviewed. In my "Male Review Illustration" my only desire was to point out that its not fun when the magnifying glass is pointed at you.

Clients are not reviewed, so they can never know what it feels like to see "THE" most intimate act you can perform with one another human being plastered all over the internet for the whole world to see. In our business you wouldnt think that we would be modest... but if we wanted the whole world to know what we do we'd do it in front of a camera on a porn set (and make a hell of alot more money) and not in the privacy of our own homes. Like I said, could you leave us with a shred of dignity? Explicit reviews can be embarrasing.

3. You dont have to be explicit to be informative. My little "illustration" of a male review was pointless...and that was my point!

What does that information in my illustration have to do with whether he's a worthy client...NOTHING! What point does the explicit information in a review serve other than to entertain? Nothing! There is already a "profile" which gives you most of the information you need to make an informed decision about the provider. The profile contains vital statistics, general information etc. ANYTHING above and beyond a checklist of services (she provides DATY, DFK, CBJ, etc) in the review is ENTERTAINMENT. What else do you really need to know other than "is she a rip-off?" and "What services does she provide?"

Dont pee on my leg and tell me it's raining...especially when guys are admiting to J***ing Off when reading these reviews. Dictionary's are informative too but I dont see anyone j***ing off to them. Explicit reviews are for entertainment purposes and there is NOTHING wrong with that, just call a rose a rose.

4. Degrading, Nasty Reviews

You said: "Of course, this is a subjective opinion, and I realize that some consider details in and of themselves degrading."

And that is what I am talking about...my opinion is that explicit reviews in and of themselves are degrading.

My mom used to say: "one man's ceiling is another man's floor". What I view as nasty and degrading may be "normal" to other people. I think we are "numb" to it because of the nature of this profession...providers are just "ho's", so who cares if the explicit details cause us embarrassment. Explicitness just seems so insensitive to me, as if the reviewers think that providers dont have feelings.

5. Bad clients are NOT synonymous with bad reviews.

I personally know a provider who had a client try to blackmail her with a bad review. It may not be common but it does happen.

6. You said: " Also, as for men writing misogynist reviews, I just don't see the evidence."

I never said anything about misogynistic reviews...I spoke of how embarrasing and "nasty" reviews can be. When I say nasty I mean lines like ..."I opened her p***y and..." "Nasty" is a matter of opinion and taste. What is nasty to me may not be nasty to others.  What some call "informative" I call "nasty"...no different than a $4.99 porn paperback.

7. You said:"...and of course we all know providers have thousands of funny to downright scary stories about clients.  But only a very foolish provider would take these thoughts public, (unless the man is an outright threat to safety), it's self-defeating".

I think it's a double standard, clients can talk about us but we cant talk about them. There are no "client review" boards out ther for a reason. Not just the for the reason(s) "Restaurants dont review their customers"..."We are paying you so we dont get reviewed". Face it, being under that magnifying glass is rough.

Hey guys, if there "WAS" a client review board what would providers say about you? I'm not talking about Negative Reviews or penis size...I'm  asking are you a BFE? What would a provider say about you?...something to ponder when writing reviews huh?

8. You said: "Does a restaurant review it's customers? Never.  Sure, the waitstaff might snicker at customers behind their backs..."

I can see that this is just a business transaction in your opinion (like going to a restaurant) and I respect that. There is alot of talk on these boards about the "GFE". So many of us ladies are doing our best to make your time and experience "MORE" for our clients than just a romp in the hay. On this level we are attempting to make it more than just a BJ in the backseat of your car in some dark alley. For a true GFE to take place we have to respect our clients and our clients have to respect us.

I just want to reiterate that "Juicy Details" are NOT necessary. You dont have to be explicit to be informative.

Information is: "She let me dine at the Y"
Entertainment is: "I opened her p***y and..."

Lets just call explicit reviews what they are... ENTERTAINMENT.

there aint no good guy
there aint no bad guy
theres only you and me and we just disagree

sable

Yanno I have to say I felt a lil' wierd the first time I read a review of myself here. It's not everyday that you realize that thousands of people now know how juicy and/or sweet your pussy is.  But for the most part, I feel the way you do... I'm not ashamed of what I do, I LOVE it, and I do it 'cuz I'm perpetually horny! LOL! It's always pissed me off how our society on the one hand splatters us with images of hot and heavy sexuality, while on the other tries to beat into us the idea that sex is wrong... unless you're married.  Meanwhile, we hear radio advertisements at Christmas that explain to your average horny guy, that if he wants to get the BOOTY, he better come up with a great GIFT... and if that isn't societally endorsed prostitution, I dunno what is.

The only time I ever had a problem with a review here was when something was written in it that I don't do... and I started receiving email requests FOR that thing, and felt that I would wind up with clients arriving with a certain expectation which would prove to be false, and thus they'd be unsatisfied with their experience with me.  (I think the reviewer misunderstood something which I said in a hot and heavy moment, that's all) That review was pulled, when in fact I would've been happy with a little bit of rewording on the reviewers part... but so be it.

I know a lot of ladies do not like the explicit factor of the reviews here... so maybe if we can just show each other the respect of asking (unless, of course, it's a super bad experience, rip off, etc), prior to posting.  It's even more courteous to allow the lady to read the review before you post it. I'd personally never change a review, but it's a nice step that I do appreciate when it's been taken.  It also gives the lady a chance to decide if she's comfy with it.

Anyways, it is nice to see someone with your perspective around, since it is one I share. I have to say that idea of anyone getting off to reading my reviews or looking at my pics is kinda hot.

I do appreciate that I'm in the minority on that view tho!
Hugs*
Nicole

There are TONS of things that go into determining whether a review is a good one or a bad one, and some *bad* things are not able to be fixed, but... for me myself and I, I will say that I would infinitely prefer a client tell me if something is wrong DURING the session... when I have a chance to provide a remedy for it... then to hear about it afterwards in a review.  Thus far I have not received a bad review anywhere BUT... I think a lot of guys might put up with some things and never say a word... I think most of the American population has some degree of hangup of talking about sex.  

I am not psychic... I *am* very good at what I do... but without feedback, I can not "guess" the specifics of any one man's personal needs, favorites, and desires. I once dated someone who hated to be sucked. REALLY, no joke! (I wound up having withdrawal) But had he not TOLD me that, I would've done it all the time... 'cuz it's my favorite thing, darn it! So I think it would be a good thing if gents keep in mind that they do bear *some* element of responsibility for getting what they want... with most of the wonderful ladies out here, it's just a matter of *asking.*  (No, I don't mean ahead of time with an explicit email that will just piss her off.. I mean THEN, in the moment, when it matters!)  You certainly would NOT offend me... there's pretty much nothing anyone could ask for that would offend me, altho I may or may not enjoy that particular thing... I'd never get offended over being asked.

Just a thought to consider in all the pondering about reviews and individual experiences

Hugs*
Nicole

ICEMAN  I think you missed my point or I stated it poorly.  I was talking more about censorship and not posting a review for lack of graphic details because it isn't within the nature of the writer to be so.  That doesn't make it a review that shouldn't be posted.  You also brought other good points into the discussion but there was an indication that your opinions and mine were very different.  Which there really is no way you could know as the little bit written here is only the tip of my iceberg and we actually do share some similiar opinions. But a prude I'm not or could I really do this and enjoy it as much as I do? Anyway sticking with the original post.  I'm going to try to clarify my main point and using you latest review you wrote bring another point into the thread.  Censorship is a no-no given this is American.  I'm talking about creative writing style which is easier to develop and can actually be quite fun. In reading your latest review of a provider I found most of your writing to be quite entertaining smiling for the most part as you write with a flair that brings the picture to life in the reader's mind.  And than my YUK ooh came when you decided you would slam her on the teeth and smoking.  I am not a smoker and this is a detail that is important for non-smokers to know.  If she reads your review and doesn't make and adjustment than she will lose business.  But the approach could of been far more sutle within the review.  It did seem you enjoyed your self for the most part and your rating shows it.  First rate businesses always hope that a bad experience or a less than perfect time is brought to their attention so they can correct and possibly compensate for the lessor scenario in order to maintain the relationship. Far too many bad experiences are never know about until it is to late and the customer just never comes back.  Unfortunately the nature of the beast the customer relates his bad experience to at least 10 other people who tell 10 more and so on.  You told a few more than 10. The review might could have read different for example:  She smokes but not during the session. The odor was extremely apparent.  I let her know it was a deterent to me and she apoligized profusely.  She said she was grateful for the comment and didn't realize the order was so strong and she would do everything possible to resolve the issue.  This might have been her response had she know there was a problem. I t lets the reader know your concern but also let's them know the provider is open and receptive to constructive critisim. Than you started in about her teeth.  To slam her about a cosmetic thing that is not easily changed without significant monetary out go is unkind and may really lead to some emotional drama in her life.  When I was in my late 20's I owed a fitness center and money wasn't abundant.  Had no insurance and started getting a cavity right in  one of my front teeth.  Kept putting it off and trying not to smile to big to hide it.  One of my gym clients one day managed to corner me away from anyone else hearing and said. "you are such a wonderful lady with a beauty that radiates everytime you smile.  But lately your smile has not been the same and I can tell why. I hope you won't be offended because I care about you as a person but a trip to the denist is needed. Your half smile truly shorts you and your beauty. Can I help you with the cost
if money is a concern.  Needless to say I was embarrassed but grateful for his candidness.   I really didn't think anybody was paying much attention.  Needless to say I gathered my funds as quickly as I could and got the tooth fixed.  A kinder approach with sincerity is better.
   Lastly, crudity verses creative writing. EXAMPLE:  THE LARGE BROAD STUCK HER ASSHOLE UP IN THE AIR FOR MY BIG DICK TO SLAM IT IN.  How about...This voluptous women lifted her ample bottom up and braced for my powerful entrance into her puckered forbidden love zone. Both say the same thing but you get to different pictures of the participants.  The way the first is written I visual an obese person growling and snarling as this big abusive man pounds her butt.  The second portrays a full figured lady (who is attractive even though larger) and even though the descriptors for the gent are almost null you garnish he likes to exert power with his play and visual an ardent lover who is attractive.  Guys she may be like the first example. But if she isn't, she truly is the second, but you write  like the first example you have done her a disservice.  I know writing is easier for some them others but do the uncomfortable until it becomes comfortable.  We ladies are at your mercy. Sorry this got so long but just my 2 cents again.

Hugs,

Cheridan

Love those 80's hits! I think we may have to agree to disagree...

...on this one, seems that the issue we're stuck on is whether details are degrading.  I think they aren't, you think they are.  You may not be comfortable with pornography,  and consider it raunchy, dirty, and demeaning,  I'm not with you on this.   I believe pornography is a natural expression of human sexuality, it's been around since the dawn of time, primarily for the entertainment of men.   Isn't that what this hobby is all about, entertaining men?   Am I missing something here?  

I believe that prostitution is essentially an extension of pornography, bringing the two dimensional fantasy to life, it's entertainment.  So why shouldn't reviews be entertaining as well as informative?  Isn't that the point?  If guys enjoy the voyeuristic pleasure of reading about another man's session, what's wrong with that?   Does it degrade the man or woman involved? I don't think so.  

I personally have a great time writing reviews, and try to make them as fun to read as possible.  Not only by giving a nice erotic story (if the session was indeed nice) but by using humor I think reviews can be a kick in the pants, and after all,  I'm in this to have fun.  If you think that prostitution is not entertainment, I'm really not sure what you think it is. Health care?  If so, my advice would be to operate on boards that are less explicit,  or simply ask your clients not to review you.  I know many providers that take this route, for these exact reasons, they just aren't comfortable with details.  I have yet to see a client not respect their wishes with regards to "no reviews".

As for your points about the "magnifying" glass, yes, I understand that it is rough, but that's part of any service business, and not a double standard.  As far as having your bedroom activities "plastered" everywhere, on display for the public, you act as if no one else is in the room with you!  Remember, the reviewer is disclosing his own sexual preferences and personal life as well, and is just as open and blunt about his own intimate fantasies.  Sure, he doesn't have to rate his own looks and attitude, but from a sexual standpoint, both parties are just as exposed, it takes two to tango.  

Take a look at the reviews, I'd say in 50-70% of the reviews,  men often talk about their own sexual shortcomings, how they have trouble getting an erection, or not being able to reach round two, penis size, psychological, or other sexual issues.   Rather than fib about coming 5 times in 30 minutes, they honestly give an assessment of their performance.

Why?  Clearly not to titillate,  doesn't turn me on to hear that a guy wilted halfway through his session, and spent the rest of the time getting patted down with baby powder.  Men do this so others understand their experience.  It is very important to know how a provider handles this kind of situation, (since many men have these same fears and concerns)  was she reassuring? Did she quickly and comfortably move to other activities? Did she downplay the issue, put him at ease?  Or was she defensive about it? Derisive, or impatient with him?  This kind information is not available from the form data alone, so yes, "explicit" details can be both informative and entertaining.

I'm not sure where you are drawing the line between a "nasty" and a misogynist review.  I can't see the difference.  Here's what I get when I look up nasty 1 a : disgustingly filthy b : physically repugnant 2 : INDECENT, OBSCENE  How can a review be filthy and repugnant, but also respect the woman?  In my mind, it can't, and again, show me the reviews that you feel are way out of bounds. In my experience with TER, the evidence is just not there.

Also, what's wrong with using language like "I opened up her pussy"?  I think used in the right context, could be very respectful and sweet.  Try this:

"She leaned back as I kissed my way up the soft skin of her legs.  Soon my mouth was kissing her inner thighs, back and forth on other side of her sex.  I could smell the musky, sweet scent of her, and pulled back to gaze admiringly at her beauty.  With my fingertips, gently, I opened up her pussy, exposing her clitoris, and slowly lowered my face down, and took her warm pearl in my mouth."

OK, was that passage nasty? Obscene?  Filthy?  Disrespectful?  I think it was a very nice description of a very beautiful act.  Was it gratuitious?  Sure.  Did I really need to go into that detail?  No.  I could have just said. "She allowed DATY (EOM)".  But does this entertaining description somehow cheapen her, or me?  I don't think so.  I think it was respectful, and very humble at such an intimate and personal moment.

In the end, TER has chosen to make guidelines that encourage more details, rather than less details, and I believe this is perfectly respectful to all parties involved, and makes for both good information, and good entertainment.

Hey, I realize we're not going to reach agreement on this one, and I respect your opinions, and I really appreciate you posting them and being willing to enter the fray.  If we every meet, my review (if you would like me to write one) will be short, succinct, and to the point... just the facts, m'am.

Are you gonna take me home tonight?
Ah down beside your red firelight
Are you gonna let it all hang out?
Fat bottomed girls you make the rockin' world go round

iceman

...I agree, I think we are more "alike" than we are different.  I apologize, I know my first post was a bit of a troll, I understand that you aren't a prude, and I'm sure you are very comfortable with your own sexuality.

I agree with many of your points, yes the way something is written is very important, but as for your THE LARGE BROAD STUCK HER ASSHOLE UP IN THE AIR FOR MY BIG DICK TO SLAM IT IN, my point is, I rarely see reviews like this, did this actually come from a review on TER?  In my experience this kind of language is the extreme exception to the rule here.

I do have to disagree with your point that my mentioning bad teeth in a review was a slam.  IMHO an opinion is never a slam.  In my view, her teeth were poor.  I'm not saying this is an easy thing to correct, nor is weight loss or quitting smoking, but that's not my point.  My point was to relate this caveat to other hobbyists, so they know what to expect.  I simply can't think of any other language to use to sugar coat this one, so that guys still understand what I'm trying to say.

Sure, I would have preferred that other reviewers had mentioned this before, so I could avoid being the bad guy, but if it has to be me, fine.  I'm not going to pull punches if I think it's something that matters to hobbyists.  All I'm trying to do is save other hobbyists from a negative surprise.  

And again, you're proving my point that provider complaints about "explicit reviews" are often a smokescreen to hide fears about "negative" or "lackluster" reviews.  Notice that you had few reservations about the sexual details or my review, since they were overwhelmingly positive, yet you cringed when I brought up a looks issue.

Also, I disagree that a client can realistically bring up problems during or before a session in person.  If I had mentioned my opinion of her teeth in person, and hinted that she should think about caps, even very gingerly and gently, she would have either gotten extremely defensive, or very hurt, either way, this is not a good way to start a session.  

Sure, the smoke issue might have been resolvable, and I could have asked her to open a window or door (easier than comments about teeth), but should I then not mention the smoke in my review?  No, I'll still be honest.  My review would then read..."I entered a very smoky motel room, IMHO, it was so smoky that I asked her if I could perhaps open a window or door, to clear the air, because I was concerned about it hanging in my clothes."  Is there really a difference here?  Besides, I knew that later on I could "air out" so I didn't ask her to resolve it.  However, I feel I've helped other men who might be more sensitive to this issue (perhaps they are heading right home after their session), they would want to know this upfront, and either ask her not to smoke before the session, or choose not to see her if this could not be accomodated.

It's just not human nature to directly confront someone with something you aren't happy about, especially if it's subjective.  Again, YMMV, and other men may not feel that her teeth are that bad, may not even notice or care.  Some guys might not care about smoke either, or be smokers themselves, but IMHO, my opinion and information should be out there.

workin' all day for the boss man WHOAH
workin' for the company WHOAH YEAH
bettin' on the dice I'm tossin' WHOAH
I'm gonna' have a fantasy WHOAH YEAH

iceman

I for one stopped submitting reviews for this very reason.  I'm not comfortable writing some of the explicit details.  For many of the reasons Sable cites.  Respect, LE, whatever.  Neither do I read them since I'm not a full member.  I had several rejected long ago and just stopped bothering.

This isn't Penthouse letters.  The reviews are a research tool and, for me, all I really need to know are the basics.  Things like pictures are a fair representation, not a rip off, good time had by all, etc.  I suppose if I had some particular fetish, the details would be invaluable, but I don't.

If I WERE writing reviews, Ali and Sandra Williams would each have another stellar review to add to their collections.

DVB

to offer hospitality in a gracious way if the efforts  are going to be written  in the light of vulgarity?  There are many providers trying to elevate this profession, to treat a man with the class she believes men deserve. With reviews written the way many of them are, we ladies begin to wonder if we are wasting our efforts.  But fortunately, there are men out here who dont feel the compulsion to spew on us.  We make the efforts for those cherished clients, and for ourselves.

I have no problem with reviews, or reviews which are not vulgar and rude. But those who let it all hang out in a vulgar way are the ones who make me wonder if those clients even noticed that there were satin sheets on the bed. Would those men  prefer to have a paper cup offered them instead of a wineglass? Would some of you men even notice the difference?  You speak of pride, Iceman, as far as being proud of our profession, what do you call it when we try to present you with a clean sweet perfumed presence, tender touch, refreshments, clean fresh sheets, etc.  That is pride, but these types of reviews disregard these efforts. Did you even notice the satin sheets?  Do you think so little of yourselves and us?  If you want a porn actress you can have one (and I know that some porn actresses are fine escorts).  But we are escorts, so what kind of pride can we boast?

I dont like someone coming on my face, even though a porn actress may be proud of it.  I was in porn before. I was not proud of it.  I AM proud of being a hostess & escort. Being crazy in private if I am in the mood. Finding my client's mood rather than concentrating in trying to hold up to some image onscreen.  It suits me much better.  Don't lump escorts in with porn actresses and tell us how we should feel.  How proud can ESCORTS  be when someone at starbucks, the library, a concert asks us what we do for a living?  How PROUD can we be when we are humiliated after being arrested?  Yes, perhaps escorting is an extension to porn, but what kind of porn? I did porn before, and I chose privacy. Now where did that go? As Cheridan indicated, she does this in the privacy of her place, not for all to see.  You see, Iceman, this was never part of the agreement in being an escort, splatting all on the www.  Whether or not you agree, whether or not reviews are inevitable,  I am glad that for now there are enough men out there who choose not to go the route of vulgarity with reviews.  I find it hypocritical that some men who insist on discretion from us are too willing to give us "a gyne exam on CNN", so to speak.  What I fear is that encourging this as the norm though, will make it the norm.

Sorry if my writing is all disjointed, there is just sooo much.

One more statement.  Thank God we are individuals.  Nothing said here applies to everyone.  But at the same time, I dont want to be lumped in with a porn actress because I am not one.  Not all porn actresses escort, and not all escorts are porn actresses.

ff



-- Modified on 2/18/2002 2:51:32 PM

Porn is for entertainment. It is legal. Escorting is for gratification of said client.  It is not legal.

When did  escorting become entertainment?  So that means it's legal now, and we ladies can relax?  Dont forget, we still must carry the stigma and the fear put onto us because this IS illegal.  So being "proud" is a private thing.  We ask that since we cannot be publicly proud, then you do not publicly ridiucule and shame us.

I know I know.  Life is not fair.

xoxo

ff



-- Modified on 2/18/2002 4:04:25 PM

There's never been a better time to practice a little civility in our dealings with others, and especially toward the women we expect to treat us so well.  

There apparently is a difference of opinion on this board as to whether reviews are homegrown pornography, or whether they are meant to inform those that follow as to what they can reasonably hope to expect for the fee paid.  Frankly, I find these (mostly) clumsy attempts at writing porn to be just stupid and far from erotic.  I have no interest in hearing someone else describe the glory of his penis and all the great things he did with it- kind of reminds me of my high school years when we were first discovering sex.  For those of us that have matured beyond that point, I think the reviews  serve a different purpose.  Could this be why so many escorts don't want to see young guys?

Cheridan, and all you other lovely ladies,
I admit that I read a lot of reviews when I am getting ready to see a provider.  Obviously, if I want a specific service or set of services, I will select thse providers that provide that service or set.  Although I cannot speak for anyone but myself, this is what I look for in a review:

Does she (still) participate as I wish, and are there caveats.

Does she have a good attitude, and look presentable (or is she a slob in silk).

Are the ticket prices accurate (or is there some scalping...).

Is the general opinion that this provider gives good value.

Someone else's heroics (or lack thereof) are of absolutely no interest to me, and his session and mine may well turn out very different because of the infinite number of variables in any relationship.

If you can't say something nice about someone, it's often better to say nothing (of course if it's a ripoff, then the warning is appreciated).

You have a way with words......

This review always gives me a chuckle when I read it.  A little bewildered when it first appeared, I posted a message on this board titled "Escort and Psychic:  99% Accurate."  I was trying so hard to please him, and he seemed to be loving what I was doing.  If he had just given me a HINT that he wanted something else...

I've included the Juicy Details here for non-VIP members.  I hope it's okay to post the Juicy Details here.  They're not all that juicy, and they're about me, after all.

    This was kind of weird. I was not very experienced
    but after reading all of the reviews I decided to try
    Laurel. She seemed great on the phone and when I got
    there she was very accommodating with drinks and
    relaxation. I had the obligatory bath and all. Basically,
    I got 2 BBBJ, some nice rimming, a little S & M, but
    no sex. Was not sure if it was me or what. Don't get
    me wrong, she gives a great BJ but with me - no sex.
    YMMV. Given the other providers that I have seen, I
    would not go back. One more thing, TER requires certain
    fields to be filled in. One is her pussy. I put in
    partially shaved because you are required to fill in
    something. I have no idea because I never saw it.

Before someone tells me I should give everyone the exact same service (I have read this advice here), I should tell you that, while I have favorite things I like to do and which most first-time clients seem to be looking for from me, I like to go along with what I sense the person I'm with wants to do.  

There is another problem with the "fixed routine" approach.  When I was being reviewed frequently (most reviews seem to be submitted after the reviewers' first visit with a provider, and I now choose to see mostly Friends, taking on a few select new clients), a couple of reviewers accused me of being "scripted" because they received the same treatment that most other reviewers raved about!  What's a girl to do?  


-- Modified on 2/19/2002 9:00:56 AM

Cheridan, FeliciaFoxx, Sable, SexyCurvesDC:

I believe a provider's attitude is of paramount importance, outweighing physical appearance or sexual gymnastics. Therefore, it is my opinion that if all providers possessed your wit, wisdom and charm, there would be no need for TER. Alas, if I could only find a provider in the western Massachusetts area who possessed such qualities.

And Iceman, your posts are so clever and entertaining that I'm seriously considering purchasing a VIP membership just so I can read your juicy details.

...then I would argue that pornography, like escorting, is also for gratification.  I'm not understanding your distinction here.  Also, my statement that prostitution is an extension of pornography wasn't to mean that all escorts should act like porn stars.

Rather, my point was that men have sexual urges and fantasies. (We all know how extensive and varied these fantasies are)  Some men use magazines and videos to gratify these needs, others may attend strip clubs or peep shows, still others, jack shacks or MPs, and then you have us, the men who act out their fantasies to the fullest, with a prostitute.  It's a matter of degree, and how far you are willing to take your fantasies.
   
The session that you speak about, a provider setting a very romantic scene for the client (satin sheets, fine wine, chocolates, candles) is to gratify a very common fantasy, the GFE.  Many hobbyists have the need to feel loved, feel special, feel like they are with a girlfriend, and good providers cater to this.  On the opposite end of the spectrum are BDSM folks who might want a provider to humiliate them and dominate them.  Again, the fantasies are varied, but the underlying theme is the same.  Whether we call it entertainment, or gratification, the bottom line is, prostitution is for the man's pleasure.

When you hear the music you make a dip
Into someone else's pocket then make a slip.
Steal a car and go to Las Vegas oh, the gigolo pool.

iceman

Giving the exact same service every time is a) impossible and b) would be sooooooo boring for everyone involved. The idea is to go with the flow within the realm of what is safe and everyone feels comfy with, but if a guy is going to lie there like a lump, expect you to get inside his head and figure out what he wants every single second, it gets so frustrating.  Men who are *responsive* and vocal are lots easier to figure out, but sooooo many men are just *silent*.  (I love men who moan!)  I know there are some men who love to chitchat at the beginning of the session... and every once in a while I get someone who doesn't seem to have a clue how to hold a conversation, which makes me get nervous and just jump ahead. Whether that's what they want or not I have no idea since they sure don't say. I have started to *ask* them... which helps some.

Anyways, that's annoying to get a review like that and think in your head jeeeeeze, well, you coulda, but you didn't say a peep about what you wanted!  I also don't recommend that you walk in and first thing just say "Hey babe, I wanna phuck you like an animal," or whatever... wait until things have progressed to a more intimate level before getting into explicit requests, or you might find yourself bounced out on your ear guys!

Hugs*
Nicole

Except on one point, and that is that girls do get threatened/blackmailed with the bad review threat. It happens on TER, it happens on other boards, it HAPPENS.  Frankly if I ever ran into someone like that I'd simply boot them out the door and tell them they're welcome to write whatever they want... there is no way one person could destroy the reputation I've built, and too many people know me to believe any vindictive crap like that. But not all ladies are wired the way I am.

And yes, those guys are scuzzy completely irregardless of the reviews here or elsewhere. But they do exist.
Hugs*
Nicole

I resemble that remark!

Your last one, that is, because I am hear to tell you... of COURSE I speak only for MYSELF here... that I'm here for my pleasure, fun, and benefit FIRST. I am a selfish needy greedy lil' thing. I'm also a submissive and I have a basic *need* to please others, which works out really well for me in this context... I feed my needs, and my *others* walk out with big silly happy grins and weak knees and everyone is happy!  My pleasure comes from their pleasure and the two are so intertwined that one doesn't work without the other.

I know there are some women for whom this is *only* a job, and they do not really enjoy it... but personally I can't imagine that kind of torture... if I hated this, I could never do it. I love love love it!

BTW, on the OTHER opposite end of the spectrum you have the submissive provider who loves a dominant male who will say what he wants, or just take it once he comes in... 'cuz that's what I'm THERE for, after all

Disclaimer: Please DO NOT try to apply my statements to anyone else, it won't work and most likely will get you smacked upside the head by some irate lady. Just say no. Bad idea!

Hugs*
Nicole

"But we are escorts, so what kind of pride can we boast?"

I just have to say that I would hope that each of us finds our pride in ourselves... IN ourselves. There is no need for it to be based upon someone else's opinion of us, regardless of what that opinion is.  Dealing with your average joe asking us what we do comes with the territory, and it is a fact that most of society does not have a positive view of what we do. So what? Since when did "what most people think" become what is RIGHT?  Most people used to think the earth was flat.

For me myself and I, reviews don't bother me, I have a different perspective on it. I deal with the realities of the society I live in as best I can, but agreeing with this society on these points is a whole 'nother issue. Would I be ashamed if arrested? Absolutely! But not for what I do... more for the fact that our society is stupid enough to waste tax dollars on legislating something that takes place in privacy between two consenting adults. Over the fact that it could affect my life in negative ways, but not over the fact of my skill and pleasure and enjoyment in what I do.

I do respect your opinion on reviews, and my feeling is that a gentlemen would *ask* prior to posting (unless it is a negative review or a rip-off).  In that way, the system could work for all of us.  I just think that insofar as *pride* goes, whether you like the reviews or not, your pride comes from within yourself, not from anyone else.

Hugs*
Nicole

"Fat bottomed girls!" LOL!

BUT... the only point you're missing from my perspective is that you're not taking into consideration that there are ladies... like, oh... ME, for example... who love porn, enjoy porn, and have a stack of porn magazines that is prolly more eclectic than most you'll ever see. I was reading Penthouse, Playboy, and OH how I loved Hustler (it was the only one that showed the penis, when I was little) when I was eight years old. I used to steal 'em from my brothers.  Hehe!

Generalities are general, I like being an exception! Stop being so greedy! Everything sensual, sexy, explicit, wild and crazy is NOT just for men, mr. greedy guy. It's for me too, okeydokey?

Hugs*
Nicole

My Dear,

I thoroughly enjoyed all of your posts to this thread!  A breath of fresh air. Ahhhh. Thank you. Now bend over. LOL.  

From the responses, I wasn't getting much support for "explicit details as entertainment" from the provider's side. I'm with you totally, I consider pornography to be a natural outlet for sexuality, and it's just downright fun!  Being aroused, and having someone's words and descriptions excite me, is wonderful, I think it's perfectly appropriate that reviews be both informative, and arousing.  Why shouldn't they be?  

Like you, I've never felt that descriptions or depictions of sexuality were degrading, demeaning or shameful.  But yes, didn't mean to exclude the women, or you.  Let's all get naked, turn on some pornos, light some candles, get out the satin sheets, open the cherry flavored warming lotion, and party. After all is said and done, isn't this about having fun????

The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin
That's what I said.
The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand
Or so I have read.
My baby fits me like a flesh tuxedo.
I love to sink her with my pink torpedo.
Big bottom
Big bottom
Talk about bum cakes,
My gal's got 'em.

iceman

What the heck is DATO????
I have never heard that before and Iceman it's in all your darned reviews LOL! Dining at the... Opera??? WHAT???

LOL
Hugs*
Nicole

Be who you are with who you want to be with. Others can never define who you are unless you give them permission.

yet still, I like to be private, since I am not doing this on the camera anymore. Other ladies, I am sure, have turned down the opportunity of doing porn as well (wonder why so many reputable providers blur their faces on websites?)  Anyhow, referencing the gratification vs entertainment statement I made and you questioned/rephrased, there was a time, not a millenium ago either, when there were cases in court regarding the legality of porn.  There was a distinction made at one time in those words or pretty close to it in order to try and legalize porn as set apart from prostitution.  Meaning that the act of gratification for one person (prostitution) is illegal, whereas entertainment for the many (porn) is legal. I didnt make this up, I wish I had a quote for you.

I remember signing at William Margolis Freedom of Speech both at the CES show for 3 years in a row, for the freedom of speech and porn on the internet. My point in saying that is that I love sex. I am not antiporn. Please bear in mind that beastiality is also considered porn.  But I just feel that to be explicit in reviews doesnt have to require raunch anymore than porn has to necessarily require beastiality.  I hope you can see my point now.  Seems that a lot of the other men do.

Now as for reviews: At this point in time I stand amongst the providers who appreciate a bit of discretion in a review. When a provider puts so much of herself into her sessions, trying to be sensitive to a seemingly happy visitor, her reading of a raunchy review feels like a betrayal.  

There are many men and women who actually find a slow and undulating buildup into an experience extremely sensitizing and erotic.  Perhaps we should name this the "courtesan experience".  Certainly not for everyone.

As for the gratification of the client then why do so many of my visitors strive to be a BFE?  I cannot imagine that I am so different that I am the only provider who receives this treatment.  

So whether you pay or I pay,

I still feel

"We BOTH are here to have some fun so whip it good, Whip it all night..."

xoxo

ff



-- Modified on 2/20/2002 2:13:53 AM

Some wrongs are moral in nature, and others are simply because we felt like it, even though it may not be morally wrong. The American position on prostitution is definitely a minority one, worldwide, but taking comfort in that doesn't reduce your penal liability, nor make your clients less confused. The more the session is really about the client, the more it is actually about the provider. Think about that for a minute. You know, behind (or is it on top) of every great man stands a great woman.

Actually, to me, escorting is entertainment. In Bangkok, for instance, they don't call them massage parlors anymore, they call them entertainment centers (complete with coffee shop, karaoke lounge, VIP Lounge, etc.). (WARNING: THEDOCTORSW MOMENT COMING AHEAD) I have a lady friend in Vegas, who is a spectacularly gorgeous bottle blonde (not unlike, hmmm....) who is a dancer, she calls her work "entertainment" too, as in "it's just entertainment." This line is used after customer blows $1K or more on her in the VIP room, and he feels like he should get at least a BJ out of it. And you think life is unfair?

Felicia, I agree with you, there is a tension between respect and what apparently constitutes the successful review here on TER. That's why I won't write them here. At least the reviews here are written by actual clients, for the most part. We won't even discuss your pal Perrito Grande, who deserves to be bitch slapped like the wannabe pimp he is (oh, I guess I did just discuss him-sorry). He ranked you only #11???

Cheridan made some excellent points about the intellectual dishonesty, as postulated by so-called egalitarian feminist groups such as NOW, and by organized religion, the biggest prostitute of all IMO, of the escort trade. I'll just suggest you read them if you haven't already, just scroll up on this thread. As for the feminazis, if they looked at sex as a tool of empowerment rather as a nuclear weapon, the world would be a lot happier place.  

Before leaving here, Fifi, you know how I feel about you, but consider what your rate would actually be if there was no risk of arrest or prosecution. [BTW, for those living in LA City, the risk is at an all time low (see Liberalman's posts elsewhere, I can confirm his info independently)]. It would still be up there, but perhaps not as high as you'd like it to be. Sometimes we have to take the bitter with the sweet. Would the stigma be less if it were legal?

Some readers may feel its a waste of time to click on a review and not read what they like (explicitness). TER (I LOVE TER) seems to think that the answer is to make "EVERY" review explicit, this way readers are sure to get what they want. Sound thinking...but...

The "challenge" with this system is that non-explicit reviews dont get posted. Reviews are important to providers. One new review is often worth a 100 or so inquiries, most which result in appointments. If a girl is getting reviews but they are not getting posted because they are not explicit enough, that is not fair. By not posting non-explicit reviews you are penalizing the provider (and the reviewer).

I think..."THINK"...I have the answer to explicit reviews

A RATING SYSTEM!

RATE the reviews:
"G" = General Information with no explicitness
"PG" = A little more racy
"R" = Explicit
"XXX" = VERY Explicit

Put the rating on the same line where you would click to see the review. This way the reader "KNOWS" what the review contains (explicitness, general info, etc) before they click on it and begin to read and they wont be disappointed if its not what they like.

Movies have a rating system, even music has a rating system now, why not reviews?????

my 02. cents

I don't think it's necessary to warn people with a rating first, because I don't think the real issue is that any of us are being offended or shocked when we read this stuff- which is the usual purpose of posting a rating on the outside.

To me it's more an issue of am I reading some guy's highly fictionalized/romanticized/enhanced reminicences of his session with a lady, or am I really being told what I can expect for my money when I call a particular provider.  

As I said earlier in this thread, I want to see things in a review that help me to make a judgement as to whether we are compatible in our interests.  I have no interest in reading about the heroic sexual exploits of the reviewer because it adds no value.  

My suggestion to TER would be that only the top half of the review (the profile part) be accessible to the public, and the entire description of the session be available for viewing only by members.  This eliminates the need to be selling sensationalism by requiring two levels of description (the standard one and the exaggerated one) in order to get VIP members.  If you want to find out what happened, join TER, simple as that.

Once you eliminate the practice of using "juicy details" as the hook to get people in (and to qualify a reivew as being acceptable), you also eliminate the reason to exaggerate and enhance the fictional aspects of the narrative. Some guys will always get overly creative anyway, but at least you eliminate it as a requirement for getting posted and getting your VIP credits.  Details of the session and what happened, should be valuable enough information to make people want to join TER.  After all, you really don't owe the non-members more than you'd already be giving them- free access to post on the public boards and convenient access to the basic contact information and physical descriptions of the providers.

If all the session details required the second level of membership, the incentive to join as a VIP would be much greater than it is currently.  At the same time, the artificially created reasons to exaggerate reviews would be elimnated.

-- Modified on 2/20/2002 5:33:20 PM

not only 'not enuf juice' ... but are you ladies aware that the reviewer who posts about you first and sets up your
'description' and 'general comments' is the 'standard' that cannot be changed unless YOU contact TER???

We are all grown-ups, we dont need to be "WARNED" about explicit content. The Rating would be to INFORM. There are clearly two sides to this issue...Guys/Gals who like Explicit Reviews and Guys/Gals who dont need explicitness and/or dont think its important to a review.

The point of a Rating System would be like the label on a can of soup. The label on a can of soup tells you what is IN the soup before you open it, a rating on the reviews would tell you what is IN the review before you click on it.

Explicitness is clearly important to a lot of readers, when they see an "R" or "XXX" rating they KNOW what they are about to read and dont waste their time reading something they are not interested in. Other ratings ("G" "PG" and "R") would allow readers who dont care either way to see reviews of ladies that would otherwise never be posted because they are not explicit enough.

I just think its unfair to the nice gentlemen who took the time to write a review (though not explicit) and the ladies who "make a name for themselves" with reviews, to have non-explicit reviews NOT posted. (boy, that was a wicked run on sentence wasnt it?) LOL!

my .02 cents

sable

I have had things on my profile changed constantly without my knowledge.  I dont like to keep bothering TER about this unless I consider that the item is of extreme importance. (items like, swallows, anal, etc.)

Now if TER has stopped changing profiles at the whims of anyone who decides to "correct" them, then I owe TER a big thank you.

xoxo

ff


-- Modified on 2/21/2002 9:09:26 AM

i have seen three different ladies all of whom had old info or erroneous info in their profiles.  TER informed me just last month that only the lady can change the info.

I get the idea that there are some real changes happening!  That is so good,  I kept having my rates and other info being changed, until I just gave up.  So this is music to my ears.

Thank you for the input

ff

ddd/ee/f  ;->>

Wisdom always seems to ooze out of you G2.  It is always refreshing when you post.I see younger gents but it is the smaller stat of my client base.  Just frankly I enjoy more mature company and conversation is much easier.    Also their expectation of a mature provider is sometimes not realistic.  It usually shows up in reviews as  something to the effect of she's much older looking than I thought she would be,etc.

I'm just jumping in to say, you are one of the cutest clients I've ever had in the 2+ years I've been in this biz, and I saw you, my dear, BEFORE you were Iceman, and you were sweet enough to not review me on any of the boards, because as a rule, I generally prefer to not be reviewed.
OXOXO