I have been following a couple of threads on the board, and think some of them contain some very disturbing data.
Here's one; where I have combined and condensed a couple of posts from one poster to produce the message:
"For all the naysayers who have suggested communication, that bridge was crossed long ago. ... I have verbalized, moved mens heads, moved my crotch, made sounds of pain ... This is not an isolated incident."
I assume here that "verbalized" means "No! Stop! or That hurts!"
The poster in this case started off with just saying, in a very good-natured and educational way, that guys should be gentle with her clit. But by the end of the thread, it became pretty clear that this woman was having sex acts performed on her in spite of her saying "no," trying to push the man away, making sounds of pain, etc.
Sounds a lot like rape to me.
Here is another poster from another thread:
"Yes I am posting alias because few days I had an asshole who despite numerous requests to take it easy kept biting and manhandling so bad that i still have bruises. When confronted he said "that's why i pay so I can do as I want.""
That sure as hell sounds like a sexual assault to me.
"Was too scared to say stop. Just reverse cowgirled him. ... Other things factored into making me feel this would get out of hand if I spoke up."
This may or may not be rape, (because she failed to verbalize) but the intimidation factor is clear.
NOW, I am going to ask, perhaps in a less eloquent than usual fashion: WHAT THE FUCK?
Yes, some posters may split some hairs. But we ALL know that if it was OUR daughter coming home and tearfully describing such experiences; if we could identify the man involved we would be inclined to kill him before law enforcement had a chance to get to him. Yes?
Why in the hell is this even slightly tolerated?
I am not a PC guy. Hell, I'm even a father's rights advocate -- which pretty much puts me squarely opposed to huge swathes of the feminist agenda.
But ... come on ... even a knuckle-dragging non-feminist such as myself can clearly see that the events being described are WRONG.
Why is this being tolerated? Where is the justice?
Are the events that I am seeing described here acts of sexual assault?
we have a reference system...I get a request for a visit and I ask for a reference...I send the reference gal an email...in this email I ask for 411...is the man clean and safe? I ask other questions but those are my biggest concerns...what really bothers me here is why didn't the woman who these gals got references from clearly state "HE IS ROUGH AND VIOLENT"...shame on them and if it were me in that position I would send the reference gals follow up emails and light them up like the fourth of july...this really pisses me off...the fact that you pay me does NOT mean you can do as you wish...there is no YMMV is these cases...if a man likes rough sex with one he is going to expect the same from the next...he is a control freak and likes to make women feel less than...oh yeah, that's my idea of a good time...my Irish side dictates that I fight back...I don't have any hard core weapons on hand...but I will tell ya what, put your hands on me with intent to harm me and things won't go well in your world...a couple eye fulls of pepper spray and a very hard kick to the nuts and you will wish our paths never crossed! I hope these ladies put those fellas info all over the national black list 
are naive.
It is at the very least inappropriate to continue in any conduct that a provider tells you is uncomfortable or painful for her. Persistence, or a pattern of such behavior, marks the responsible individual as an abuser and potentially dangerous. Certainly worthy of being on every DNS list.
Why is it tolerated? Because the lady has put herself in due course of her business in a vulnerable situation. Unless she has a weapon handy or is confident of her ability to kick the guy's ass and deal with the aftermath, she may calculate that she *has* to put up with a certain amount of abuse in order to get the guy off and out the door.
Where is the justice? You've *got* to be kidding me. Where is the justice *anywhere* in this world lol. Anywhere you look the strong and powerful take from the weak. In many ways this is especially true today in the good old USA.
In any event, the provider has to calculate the legal ramifications for her own life before considering legal action against an abuser.
Much much worse than you have described goes on all the time in this sport. It is one of the dirty little secrets of "the hobby".
As a purely hypothetical notion; pretend there are 100 providers in a given area.
Pretend that, at no charge, somebody trains ten of them in serious self defense. (Not standard martial arts, but stuff that works with less necessary training under fight or flight stress.)
Now, pretend that one of these ten providers encounters such a fellow as we are describing; and breaks so many of his bones that he has to be put on the stretcher with a spatula when she is done.
Pretend this happens again.
Would this have a substantial deterrent effect, if nobody knows who the ten providers are -- only that they exist?
Fuck the pretend world, in the real world a hundred lb woman is putting her life at serious risk by taking on a man in hand to hand combat. Self defense classes, especially for women, should be exactly that, "self defense"
Once you give a woman the feeling that she can go out and "break so many bones, etc", you have put that woman at serious risk.
This is a very, very bad idea, and I think you already know it.
Unless a woman is going to spend a hundred hours a week in the gym, she will never be a match for an average man, and despite what you see on TV, even a woman with pro skills is no match for an above average man.
Body weight is hard to overcome, I remember as a young lightwieght boxer in my teens trying to spar with a light heavyweight. I had reasonably good skills and a jack hammer jab for a lightweight, It didn't do me a bit of good trying to keep that lightheavyweight off of me. He walked right through my jab, and thank god we were just sparring or it would have been ugly. lol
The same thing holds true for the average women, she just can't generate enough power to disable a larger and more powerful man, all the self defense lessons in the world are not going to change this basic fact. To delude women into thinking they can learn how to take on a two hundred pound man is irresponsible at best.
there are too many pitfalls, like getting someone to spend the time, money, and energy for the training. The possible injuries that may occur during the training. Having the training be incident specific, which there are many that a provider finds herself in. And, the violence and consequences, even if she were successful would not be contained within the bedroom. I'd vote for excellent screening, and the ladies being very serious about who they are referring to each other, and keeping their blacklists up to date. Of course, after all that, then I would encourage her to have her own personal self-defense trainer for those times when she might find her life truly in danger.
I took hapkido. It's a martial art that was developed by a Korean man that was two inches shorter than me. It's ALL about body mechanics. You are correct, a woman, particularly a woman of my incredibly petite size cannot hope to generate enough power to disable a larger/stronger man...IF her line of force is direct. However, the body has little ability to resist against circular and repeat motion (as opposed to singular direct lines of force, such as one would generate in throwing a punch). When I was active in the art, I could literally lift a man 2.5 times my weight completely off the ground and drop him onto his ass, with no real "strength" or overt force employed on my end (I make no claims that I am capable of doing this now). I no longer take hapkido, but I do still grapple on occasion with my old instructor, who weighs in close to 300.
Now, what I wholeheartedly DO agree with you on is the overall danger of taking a self defense course. Most of those courses fail at the most basic issues of drilling into the woman's head the value of techniques to not put herself in harms way to begin with, instead focusing on the whole defense angle once a confrontation has occurred. This leaves a lot of women with an over bloated illusion of power, and a loss of the most basic method to not getting hurt-keeping your eyes open. It's like they mentally turn into Superwoman with an axe to grind.
However, there are a few courses that are truly excellent. I connected my old instructor with SWOP Chicago to create and offer 6 week courses that are provider specific. So far, these have been very successful.
Like you, I've done competitive fighting. And I'll grant you that in a ring with rules; size, reach and weight made a big difference. Clearly, in general, the size, weight and strength difference between men and women IS profound.
Practically any normal training, especially classic martial arts like shotokan or boxing that are really designed for sport; would simply get a woman hurt. No doubt, and I won't disagree.
However, in a different world where I have also dealt -- in a world where there are no rules but to survive -- my smaller stature counted a lot less than my knowledge and commitment.
Believe it or not there ARE approaches to self-defense that will absolutely allow a small woman to turn a larger, stronger man into mush before he ever realizes it.
A LOT of self-defense courses are, IMO, useless and dangerous. They are taught by people who have never experienced inescapable risk to such a degree that their fine motor skills are compromised.
And, let's face it -- the BEST defense is to never have a confrontation. Conflict avoidance is always the best defense.
However, once a confrontation exists and is inescapable; it IS possible for a woman with the knowledge to disable her attacker.
Granted, with the wrong training, it can inspire false confidence.
But with the right training? She can prevail.
Given the choice, I would rather a woman be trained.
A person's personality and mindset make a very large difference on the effectiveness (or lack of effectiveness) of the application of any training or skill.
WILL is crucial.
these are your words from your earlier post,
"Now, pretend that one of these ten providers encounters such a fellow as we are describing; and breaks so many of his bones that he has to be put on the stretcher with a spatula when she is done"
You seem to be advocating that providers take matters into their own hands. I stand by my statement that if a group of providers were to take your suggestion seriously, one or more of them are going to end up dead or in a hospital.
I don't disagree that some forms of self defense allow a woman to defend herself from a man, and perhaps my boxing analogy was a bad one, but my point still stands. Encouraging women to confront a man physically is a very, very bad idea, and can get the naive among us killed.
I fought competively in both boxing and AKA tournaments as a youth, and while I was better than average in skill, at only 165 lbs, my method of self defense is being able to put all 17 shots of my Glock in the black at twenty five yards. lol
False confidence is a serious risk in learning self defense, I would hazard to guess that self defense classes for women have caused many more injuries to the women themselves than to any would be attackers. Proficiency with a fire arm, now that is a different story, but not pratical or recommended for a sexual provider. Sometimes there is no substitute for having her good friend Bubba in the next room. lol
The contradiction stems from appearing to advocate providers try to beat the shit out of men as a first option.
Such an advocacy is a bad idea -- and not really the point I intended. Clearly, as this sort of problem seems to be pervasive, if providers were to start trying to physically harm men in response to this; odds are, many would be hurt.
Absolutely agreed.
Let me make it non-contradictory -- because the same approach applies to women as to men.
1. All physical conflicts are best avoided when possible; whether you are a male martial artist carrying a Glock 17 or a 100 lb woman with or without self defense training.
The conflict avoided is a conflict you cannot lose. And I don't care HOW big a badass you are, anyone can get the drop on you.
So the first line of defense is always to avoid conflict.
2. In response to conflict, always attempt de-escalation first. This applies, again, across the board.
3. If de-escalation does not work and you are faced with immediate, inescapable, life-threatening harm; by all means, dial 9-1-1 if possible and in the intervening X minutes while you wait for help to arrive, use any and all means possible to defend yourself from your attacker.
4. In that gravest extreme, I would rather a person be trained than untrained. As this is only applied in circumstances where, if you fail to act, you are dead anyway -- there is nothing to lose. As Iron Maiden states eloquently, if you're gonna die, then die with your boots on.
But do the very best you can to make sure its the other person who dies.
Any training should be contextualized so as to be understood to only be applicable in such circumstances; and never applied for a less grave threat.
Just as you wouldn't use your Glock for a less threatening circumstance; you wouldn't stomp on someone's head for a less threatening circumstance either.
I was recently in a violent and dangerous situation thanks to a referral from two supposed provider friends. I could have been killed. I was violently brutalized and the mans' fantasy was about killing. He came to the point where he could have snapped my neck or collapsed my windpipe. He was not playing safe and he hadn't asked and I barely got out alive. The girls that referred this poor excuse for a human being, are obviously not careful and now I don't even think they ever even saw him, just pawned him off on me and said he was OK. This kind of thing happens more than a lot of people realize. Don't worry, he is now reported on the appropriate sites.
I actually do know how to hurt someone so bad they may never wake up, but the problem with that, is the moral and legal responsibilities of hurting and/or killing someone are life changing and complicated. And yes, most men severely out weigh us so it can be a total crap shoot on whether a lady can get the upper hand, get the guy out and then have to face the legal ramifications.
The good thing is that now we have the reporting systems that we didn't used to have and these guys can be blacklisted. So every guy out there who pulls bad behavior at any level can now be reported, whether it's some game playing, shorting the money, being too rough, rudeness, grossness, or severe violence. If the ladies continue to report on our reporting sights and continue to check before seeing people, these problems are greatly reduced. But as a provider, we have this happen to us, and yes, it's rape, and yes, it's abuse and assault. There's no pretty way to sugar coat it. It's the risk we take and the occasional sad reality we have to deal with.
Not saying no does not mean it isn't an issue. This is a tough one because of the subjective nature of measuring intimidation.
However, I read the same threads and completely agree.
Unfortunately, a provider may feel they have limited legal recourse, and may choose to suck it up, as it were.
I will play both sides a tad and say that ultimately that is a choice she makes - risk versus reward. Much like CBJ vs BBBJ. The difference here is the external influences.
more than could be discussed in a thread like this.
Suffice it to say, any gal who goes into a field like this should have a rudimentary knowledge of self-defense.
Crimsonlass' suggestion for better screening techniques is not a bad idea either.
Knock yourselves out.
Thanks for posting this. It’s possible you found more such posts recently but it isn’t anything new.
There is a segment of guys in this business (a small segment I suspect, but not small enough) who truly believe “I throw my money on the floor I can do whatever the hell I want for the hour.” It’s even worse when a provider’s review says “She did XXX for me, but YMMV”. Some guys have trained their eyes not to see the “YMMV” part and feel “if Jack got greek from her then I have the right to demand it too”.
It’s bad enough such a mindset exists in this community, we supposedly being the “better part” of the P4P world. What bothers me even more is how many guys (probably still a small fraction, but some of them are very loud) who would not act that way themselves turn a blind eye to it when it happens. They automatically assume “she’s crying wolf”, “it wasn’t really that bad”, “she was asking for it”, or the all-absolving “I don’t want to get involved”.
I fully expect there will be a slew of replies to your post. I’m curious what they will say.
If you were to pay attention, you'd appear less of an idiot.
But if a frog had wings he wouldn't be a frog now, would he?
"Is it rape?"
Of course not. Nothing your descriptions come even close to rape. Nothing the police would certain investigate, even if you WERE "was OUR daughter coming home and tearfully describing such experiences".
I would be asking my daughter how she got caught up into an issue such as this and would be asking a lot of questions before calling LE, or "kill him before law enforcement had a chance to get to him".
I digress. The point is rape is rape. Sexual assault if that is what you are driving at might be a stretch as well. Someone mentioned 'tongue rape' or something along that line, which is just as foolish.
You must not forget you are an fuck board for discussions involving hobbyist that pay for sex (including yourself) and ladies who offer their bodies for money (your money).
I think the vast majority of providers will tell you that also the vast majority of suitors are quite the gentleman. Of course there are some rare instances described in a few recent threads.
Flicking the clit too much or sucking on it too much or being aggressive to the point of biting on the nipples too hard, hardly would constitute a crime in the eyes of LE, given the circumstances in which all these things took place.
Others have said it, but come it is part of the price to pay of being a hooker. They have resources like DNS lists, verification processes (don't always work) and other such things to keep them safe.
I'll go out on the limb here and say if you got a lot of time on your hand check the usual suspects here on this board and check their reviews. Me thinks you are preaching to the choir about nothing.
In a country where we have dropped standards so much that we are graduating functionally illiterate people in droves; we have also expanded the definition of "rape" too far.
Circumstances that I have described more closely fit the definition of "battery" than "rape."
So I will grant that you are right -- "rape" doesn't apply. But I think that "battery" does -- which is STILL an ethically wrong activity that cannot be assumed to be included in the price.
I do not agree, though, with the idea that "... it is part of the price to pay of being a hooker."
Following that logic, a policeman shot in the line of duty would not be worthy of sympathy; and his killer would not be a real murderer because, after all, policemen accept the risk of being shot when they sign up for the job. You don't just say "Ho humm, it's part of the price you pay for being a cop." You hunt down the person who shot him, and bring that murderer to justice.
NO woman, no matter her occupation, should be battered.
However, I DO agree that the folks on this board, their rhetoric aside, (even the so-called Black Knights) are pretty much the boy scouts of the hobby world.
Nevertheless, if one recognizes that something wrong is occurring; failure to speak up allows it to multiply.
Wrongs thrive in darkness. Bringing them to the light for condemnation is valuable.
How did we get to making a comparison between shooting a cop and clit flittering and nipple biting?
I need some Prozac.
Sorry worrf, but I think battery against persons, no matter how common it may be, to be a serious matter.
The idea that a person should be drugged because he expresses concern is quite consistent with the use of Soma in Huxley's "Brave New World."
I interpreted Johns post as "no means no"...so if the clit flicking and nipple biting continues after the lady has asked a man not to do it...there in lies the issue.
How far does it have to go to be an assault? All I can say is that if I ask a man to stop doing something that is hurting me and he refuses....and he is causing sufficient pain, then to me, he is assaulting me. not rape in the very definition of the word but an assault on my person...yes.
given that you have described it as an assault (again no argument), would you then call the police? Or, would you finish the encounter as best you can thank the gent, count the envelope and make the deposit in your bank and black list him?
As an aside, and inline with John's thinking do you liken shooting a police officer with flicking the clit and nipple biting? Please we both know the answer to that.
It all about semantics. And, I still want some Prozac.
No I would not call the police and yes I would cease the activity and ask him to leave. Then I would place him and his actions on a DNS list..oh and count the dough.
As to your second portion of your post...I interpreted it as more of a principal type thing...not literally. His example was, to my mind, a little far fetched, however the principal was not lost on me.
There are elements of risk in any thing we do, it's how we deal with the risk and what measures we take to help prevent things getting out of hand.
I will say that accepting reviews makes refusing certain things and turfing an asshole who won't quit harder to do for fear of retaliation via review. Again, part of the territory. Some ladies weigh up a bad review as worth more than stopping what is bad for them. That's their choice. I personally could care less about a bad review if I was being hurt and the guy won't stop.
That's a touchy subject. I don't know if it
constitutes rape, but it's definately not cool.
I think that any grown man who has to physically
or verbally abuse women, children or animals
and what not is basically a piece of shit. I
truly believe that what goes around comes
around tho.
People who do those things are far worse that the most vile pile of shit. At least shit can be made into fertilizer.
As has been said already, the behavior is unquestionably inappropriate; even alarming. And, my spidey sense tells me this kind of bad behavior goes on with much more frequency than is shared openly.
In a situation in which a man is performing oral sex in a way that is painful, has been asked to stop, but does not do so? Labeling that as ‘rape’ is a stretch.
If a man is so rough/violent that he is leaving bruises, even after having been asked to stop? And if, in this situation a woman is intimidated enough that she is afraid that any real resistance on her part might escalate the situation? Now we’re getting into a lot more ambiguity, and if not ‘rape’ as defined legally, certainly getting very close to (if not directly on top of) “my” definition.
There are many men who possess a sense of entitlement when it comes to having sex with women. This, undoubtedly, can become more pronounced in a P4P encounter. From his perspective, he paid his money he gets to do what he wants.
This sense of entitlement is often matched in women by an ‘understanding’ that rape is something women “bring on themselves” by any number of behaviors. She dressed too provocatively. She should not have been so drunk. She should not have put herself in a situation in which she was alone with him….she shouldn’t have walked to her car alone….whatever.
And the “truth” of the attitude above is repeatedly confirmed, (by many) in the aftermath of a sexual assault. There is a pervasive tendency to want to blame victims of sexual assault, for being assaulted. And…to complicate matters further---for ‘many’ if a woman has chosen to be a professional escort, they are unable to conceptualize that ‘rape’ is actually possible (which, of course, creates all kinds of complications as far as reporting assault, much less pursuing prosecution)
Even on this board, some posters responded with a similar kind of thinking: essentially, “if she can’t handle it, find another line of work”. Now, they were not responding to “rape”. But the general attitude that an escort ‘must’ be prepared to deal with a certain level of unwanted behavior is there.
I don’t know about ‘justice’. But I do know that being prepared is not the same as ‘putting up with it” or “accepting it” as just another part of the job. Unfortunately, the options for being prepared are limited, and not completely effective.
Screening is, obviously, one way to try to balance the odds.
But, unfortunately again, many, many men view screening as “too intrusive”. Sadly, this likely compels some women into a kind of ‘cost/benefit’ analysis; as in—the benefit of implementing the level of screening she would prefer must be offset with cost of losing potential customer base; which now introduces additional/unnecessary risks to her personal safety.
And, of course, without screening she severely limits the options she has should she be assaulted, and should she actually choose to report it.
I know I'm going to get bashed for this but, in the hopes that SOMEONE here can think with their big head for a while:
If a woman says "no", it means no. If she says anything similar like "stop", "don't", or "get the fuck off me", and you don't, IT'S A CRIME. (Note: I'm assuming here that there isn't any role-playing involved. If that's the case, and she uses her safe word, it's the same as saying "no".) It doesn't matter if you are penetrating her with your dick, your finger, your tongue, a dildo, or anything else. Under the laws of most states, this is considered sexual assault. The charge of sexual assault requires penetration.
If you are licking her clit, playing with her breasts, or her ass, or touching her in any way, even through her clothing, and she says "no", IT'S A CRIME. It's considered a crime of sexual contact under the laws of most states.
If the woman sustains any personal injury during or as a result of the sexual assault, or the sexual contact, it becomes "aggravated". That is, aggravated sexual assault or aggravated sexual contact. That is a more serious crime, with a longer jail term. In NJ, they call it a crime of the "first degree".
Oh, and btw, under the laws of most states, if she is "Physically helpless" that is, she is unconscious or is physically unable to flee or is physically unable to communicate unwillingness to act, it's still a crime. Grabbing a woman's ass as she passes you in the mall is an example of criminal sexual contact and you can be prosecuted if she complains to the police, even if she never told you in advance not to do it.
The law doesn't care if the two of you are dating, married, total strangers who met in a bar, or an escort/client. It's still sexual assault and/or contact. And, if she reports it, you could find yourself in jail. Admittedly, many police departments won't get involved if she says she's an escort (many do though). But what if she doesn't say she's an escort? What if she just tells the police that you met in a bar, or mall, or somewhere else? If you try to defend yourself by saying she's an escort... even if you can prove it, it probably won't help with the charges against you for sexual contact or assault, and various prostitution-related charges could be added. I'm not saying you'd be found guilty... but there will be a trial, you'll have to pay a defense attorney, and if you lose, you will spend time in jail.
The point I'm trying to get across here is that if you are being too rough and she asks you to ease up, or you are doing something or trying to do something that she doesn't want you to, and she does not consent to what you are doing or trying to do, YOU ARE WONG. YOU ARE COMMITTING A CRIME.
I have heard of situations where women who are escorts, and sometimes even streetwalkers, HAVE reported such crimes to the police and the guys were eventually found and prosecuted. I wish more would report it. But, even if she doesn't report it to the police, you have committed a crime and I hope the escort reports it here, or blacklist sites, or passes the word on to other escorts in some other way.
Although my point was more an ethical one than a legal one; thank you for pointing out what should be intuitively obvious to anyone:
No means NO -- and sexual contact beyond that point is a CRIME.
As for me, I also realize that growing a peanut and passing it across state lines without a federal peanut growing permit is ALSO a crime. So I don't equate "crime" with "wrong" because so much is malum prohibitum rather than malum per se.
But I think we can agree that even if the behavior described were not criminal; it would still be wrong.
“The law doesn't care if the two of you are dating, married, total strangers who met in a bar, or an escort/client.
We can debate “right” and “wrong” all day. You may be, technically, correct surrounding laws. But you are conspicuously out of touch with reality.
Having spent a considerable amount of time living as a woman…..one thing I know is that any laws on the books surrounding what is, or is not, considered sexual assault---or even harassment, are quite easy to work around.
Try “proving” a claim of sexual assault.
And, with all due respect, legalize or not, if an escort reports being sexually assaulted---she will be taking her chances as to how LE will respond. (women who are not escorts can be put through a gauntlet).
And, there is always the possibility that, just when she thinks the situation could not possibly get worse, she may find herself the target of prosecution.
I, also, hope than any escort would officially report a sexual assault. I can also easily see why she might not.
Hesitate to get involved, as between the various previous posters, not sure I'm adding anything.
Is it rape? In a legal sense? To do something your partner says no to, when you are already engaged in consensual sexual intercourse? Don't think so. In a non-legal sense, I think it is rape.
Is it reprehensible? Assuming the lady has made her wishes clear, absolutely.
Is it a foreseeable risk of being an escort? I would think so. I suspect it happens a lot.
Can women take steps to try to protect themselves - and others - from this behavior? Sure. Are those steps infallible? No.
Important - Please note that my subjective reactions above are not restricted to escort situations (although the pros and cons of going to the police certainly do change). Dates, boyfriends, and husbands engage in this behavior (and worse) all the time Should women put up with it? I would say no, but it's easy for me to say what other people should do in a given situation or with their lives in general. Does this occur to men? I would think that it does in some gay relationships, and probably with some woman culprits, although the fact that men are usually bigger and stronger (and have sex organs that mayl shrink if in pain) will make this number lower, as will cultural conditioning factors.
Last point - if a woman is sure she made her desires/aversions clear, she should certainly publicize the guy to the extent that she can do so without risk to herself.
Is it rape? In a legal sense? To do something your partner says no to, when you are already engaged in consensual sexual intercourse? Don't think so.
how is it rape if the provider requested a donation for her services and then got paid for her services. besides maybe you are reading too much inbetween the lines of the review. in any case theres also times when girls play hard to get and not only like it rough but also enjoy it.
start punching you in the face because you look like you need a couple black eyes and we are having wild sex IT IS OK? you didn't say you like being punched in the face but ahhh well nbd your face is right there for the punching 
you seem a little bit shy and you're playing hard to get so that gives me the go ahead to do to you as I wish? STFU I am thinking the first time I hit you you would toss me off you, get dressed as fast as possible, grab your donation and run to your computer to right a bad review...rape or not...WRONG IS WRONG...I recall a now funny incident back when I was a pro domme...a man came by for a session...he looked a lot like vin diesel....big, bald, tattoos etc...I tied him up nice and tight and started paddling his ass hard core...within one minute he was yelping YELLOW YELLOW YELLLLOOOOOWWWWW (safe word)...I immediately stopped...I asked what the problem was and asked wtf I was doing....long story short he didnt realize I was a dominatrix and thought he was coming by for some lovin'...we are now good friends and we laugh about that day...but the look of horror on his face at the time is one I will never forget...the point is when someone says stop you STOP end of story
Yeah...I even request how hard I get slapped because I like the bruising to match certain outfits. A girl has to coordinate the colors you know.
Yes I love it rough and when I say no ...guess what, I actually mean...you got it big fella...I actually mean yes...doesn't everybody know that.
Just in case you meet up with a woman who doesn't take that kind of wonderful treatment, I hope you ask before trying any rough stuff or assuming she is "playing hard to get".
If not you might find your teeth shoved so far down your throat you will be shoving a tooth brush up your ass to brush them. Just saying big guy.
Oh and maybe if you try out your theory about paying a lady and having no consequences if you rough her up? Get back to us with that...OK?
I don't know what's more disturbing, the guys that have treated these providers with such aggresion and lack of respect, or the responses of some of the gentlemen to this thread.....
I believe it is the worst thing you can do to a person. Not just a woman.
You don't just violate their body, but their mind and their soul.
I will admit, I've done some rough stuff with some ladies. Civvie and provider. But everything was consentual, and in all actuality most was done to me, not from me.
Makes my fucking skin crawl that there are 'people' out there that get away with it.
Let me know when you catch one. I'll dig a hole prior.....
Shit you not.
I'll be glad to help...after I have spent a little time BCD with them.
Have at 'em.
Oh no MP67...I like to get a bit of cardio in at the same time. Having a moving target is more fun.
I'll just make sure no one else comes in... 
Or better yet, do you know me?
I admit, I fuck up sometimes. But I don't fuck up the same way twice.
And in all actuality, there is only one person I care to profess this to.
If you're not her, fuck you. Plain and simple.
Pigs eat everything -- even the bones. They have incredibly strong jaws and just eat everything -- bones, hair, entrails and all. Living garbage disposals they are.
Once their refuse is treated in a thermophilic compost pile (so the distinctive human proteins that can be detected in feces are broken down), there's no way of ever telling what they have eaten.
Just thought you might find that interesting.
Okay, gotta get back to turning my compost pile!
Not a bad way of disposing of an unwanted body. Hey pigs need to eat too.
Sweargin, Cocksuckers!!! lmao
Child molestors, rapists, etc. great compost ingredients.
Seeing as how he used to go to grocery stores for old food to feed his animals, they might appreciate feasting on another.
Thanks John!
And it is not necessarily about being able to pay to abuse women (although there certainly are ranges of misogyny to down right predators that feel that IS what they are paying for...)
Some guys really are just plain idiots when it comes to sex. We can train some easier then others (as with most things, learning curves vary...), but some have no capacity to comprehend direction/feedback when their other head is doing all the thinking (lol), and some revert to old habits after a correction is made, not realizing they are repeating the bad behavior. There is a difference between *this* type of guy and the sexual assault/rapist guy.
Some guys (like the one blatantly saying he's paying to manhandle the girl like he wants) is an obvious jackass. This is part of why screening and protocol is important. It has been RARE for me to run into these types of guys, and it has nothing to do with my rates, and everything I to do with how I schedule my appointments. You have to be able to *walk away* from a guy that is sending signals he's a dick and doesn't respect women.
Women offering sex for sale *should* have some level of responsibility in setting and maintaining boundaries though (IMO), and being aware of the situations that could possibly come up. Unfortunately some women do not think pro-actively, then find themselves in situations where they are being victimized to some degree or another, then do not know how to get out of them. I'm not trying to blame the victim...but I also think that we need to stop ignoring the potential risks we face each day, and addressing them head on.
Is beating him up the way to change this guy? Probably not, so I do not see that as a viable solution to anything other then him escalating with a. girl challenging him, b. next girl he sees, chosen specifically to be that victim, c. unsuspecting girl at home.
Back when I worked for others and was not in control of my screening (or walking out if needed...), I used to tell the more difficult clients on the second reminder "I said no ____________. If I have to tell you again, the session is over." Firm and to the point. If I need to give someone their money back because they are being an asshole, so be it. No amount of money is EVER worth being in those situations...