My definition of hell: Being forced to live your life all over again, but powerless to change anything.
I've sometimes thought that God made me fall in love with a Provider (not too long ago) to teach me a lesson for being a Hobbyist. Now my 24-year-old daughter, who lives in another city, tells me she wants to become a "massage therapist." Knowing her as I do, I worry about where that might take her. Needless to say, I tried to talk her out of it. Needless to say, she won't listen to me.
Funny how God missed Hitler but always finds me.
Guess you're not as liberated as you thought you might be, are you?
Few of us are as "liberated" as we think we are. Anyone with children knows that. I guess it's easy to say I'm a hypocrite, but how many "liberated" people on this board have had to take a second look at their activities because they developed feelings for their opposite number in this "hobby?" How many would want their daughter to get into it? Can I see a show of hands, please?
or become a political radical (terrorist) or something else which is not nearly as acceptable as asomeone who gives pleasure.
Let me get this straight. Working as a prostitute is somehow more acceptable to you than working for a defense contractor who builds weapons that protect us and the soldiers in the field? Please dont let this turn into a political debate.
That reminds me of an old one - what's the definition of a conservative? A liberal with a teenage daughter!
Seriously, think about it for a sec. I had a good friend who spent every minute he could at strip bars, and then was mortified when his daughter became a stripper. Don't you think she learned about male attitudes towards women from you? And I'm not being judgmental, obviously, given what I do. Is she happy? That's what I would be worrried about. If she's reasonably happy and well adjusted, it's not a bad life.
-Anya
If I had to make a snap decision I would say "no." But it depends on veriables, really. I cant say with any sincerity "don't do it" if its ok for me to see the ladies. It would center on my daughters reason why, if her decision was well crafted, who am I to pass judgement.
I would be more worried about the danger involved than anything else. If I had a daughter that was in the business of providing, I'd want to be sure that she had a mechanism of getting "assistance" rather quickly if things went wrong. As much as I'm turned off by "drivers", I think they are quite valuable if they are doing their job (and are not their to extract money for the dash and dance artists).
My definition of hell: Being forced to live your life all over again, but powerless to change anything.
Try not to be too much of a "parent". She is communicating with you which you should never take for granted. Who knows, maybe she is truly into just massage therapy and has no intentions of becoming a provider.
And what if she does want to become a provider? Is that the worst thing in the World? I don't think so. You have fallen in love with a provider and you know that they are special people too no matter what their job is.
I have no children so I am not an expert and probably should not be making any comments but when I read your post I had to share these thoughts.
You should go visit her and just chat casually about it as a "friend". That's the most you can do. If she knows you love her and care about her she will respect your comments. And if she does become a provider continue to love her, she will always be your special daughter.
Keep us posted.
BestLover
I agree, BestLover...Well said. We, as parents, raise our kids, hoping they will be honest, hardworking, independant adults. Sounds like you were successful, Papercup. I raised 6 sons, 3 step, and 3 biological. But I've also buried two, a son and a daughter. Having never got to raise a daughter, I can only imagine the pride you must feel and continue to feel throughout all of the milestones in her life, graduation, Prom, wedding and the birth of her children. But, you will, God willing, experience them, nonetheless. Some of us never will. Stop owning this problem...it's not yours.... We will never be able to protect our children 24/7, their entire lives, but by giving them the tools to make their journey a little smoother, we've done our best. Now the rest is up to them....Hugs Sweetie, Robyn
All kids are not bad.
It can be a legitimite job. Why would you think the worst of your daughter?? Didn't you teach her values? Also, are you saying being a provider is bad?? That would be like the pot calling the kettle black??
Its ok for you to see a provider, but IF and i mean if, your daughter actually turned to this professional you wouldn't support her??
I am confused.
Hey by the way, you seem to think you are being punished here, your not, its called life. We all go though sh#*
Philadelphia's Tattooed Escort
Well, just because you value a service doesn't mean you want people you care about (such as children) providing that service.
I mean, when I dine at a restaurant, I am pleased that their are wait staff who can take care of me there; when I put out my trash for collection, it pleases me that garbage collectors haul it away... this doesn't mean it would be "fine" for my child to be a waitress or my son a garbage collector. This isn't a double standard, I don't think.
And "providers" as discussed on these boards are certainly NOT "legitimate", as you argue. Personally, I think providing is fine on a moral level, but it is clearly a big problem on a legal and social level.
Any decent parent should be very troubled if their child becomes a "provider", and it isn't a double standard at all...
Every day I interact with people whom I like and even respect but in whose footsteps I would never want my child to follow in. I mean, I employ a janitor at my office and he is a great guy, funny, wise... but certainly I would never accept my child seeking janitorial service as a career. This is not a double standard, it is simply a matter of aspirations.
O.
You couldn't have said it any better.
Next time I caddy for you I`m going to crap in your golf bag.
Your moral comfort zones, or the happiness of your child?
You think it's impossible for someone to be truly and honestly happy being... a waiter, a janitor, a *gasp* provider???
Obviously we haven't moved beyond the dark ages here.
Nicole
Sometimes I think that some of the hobbyist have this self-guilt/hate thing going on where they feel these immoral feelings about themselves because of the hobby. It's almost a bit funny!
Joey
If your daughter says she wants to become a CMT, then I would support her in her goal. We all know the difference between someone who studies to be a CMT and someone who just gives "rub downs." If she's taking classes and seriously pursuing it, then I don't think you should be concerned.
It's easy to project our own experience on our children- sometimes when it's inappropriate. I went through this when my son started college and I tried to advise him on what courses to study. I realized I was perpetrating my own college experiences and likes/dislikes and not reflecting his interests. My son and I grew up in different eras with different interests. It's a mistake for a parent to disuade a child from a legitimate course of study it they are motivated to pursue it.
As someone who has had extensive physical therapy for a chronic back problem, I view the CMTs differently perhaps. I have appreciation for their talents and training and am happy they exist to help people like me have less pain in their life. Just to state it differently, our personal reference frames on CMT's are different based on our different experiences. I've seen it as part of a medical treatment, and you're afraid it's the slippery slope to some place you don't want your daughter to be. With the aging population, this field is going to have more job opportunites than in the past, and there's no reason she can't have a good career.
But the main thing for any young person is to begin to undertand their personality type, their strengths and their interests whether looking for a course of study or a career direction. I think a parent can assist their kids in this regard and help them understand themselves better, but they shouldn't push them away from something they want to seriously study just because it disagrees with the parent's views.
Let me give you a personal experience, then I'll shut up. My father was a mechanical engineer, and so was his father. Growing up, it was always assumed I would be too. Well, I didn't know how to say no to my father, so I got an engineering degree from a well respected university for my father. It was four years of hell and a pure test of intellectual willpower to get that degree. Then immediately after graduating, I went to grad school in an entirely unrelated field, but this time for ME. I never worked a day in my life as an engineer, and I would have been further ahead pursuing my dream, not my father's, from the very beginning. I hope this helps.
-- Modified on 1/27/2003 2:04:10 PM
Reckon she would give you a discount?
Sorry, that one was just too easy.
Or would she give me one?
Just kidding, just kidding
BTW, is she cute?
... one f**ked up dude! But the only one who made me laugh! Thanks!
PC
Just goofing with you, hope you took it that way.
BTW, what kind of body does she have? 
Societal projections are so blatantly misguided. Without exception, EVERY provider I've ever encountered has been an absolute sweetheart. A woman who is honest and sincere in her dealings with everyone whe meets, and has her head on pretty straight. She loves sex and loves money. What's the problem? So do I. You and society at large would love it if your daughter said she was going to be a defense attorney for a living. She would get to distort the truth, posture, lie and ruin people's lives for a living, and you'd brag about her profession. So would your friends. Isn't society screwed up?Forget what society thinks. Just make sure she's a sweet and honest person, and happy with her life. She'll find her way.
You're getting extra for that one!
Kisses,
Sedona
... responses (even BIRD's, in a different way).
I don't really think God is punishing me for being a Hobbyist. "Shit happens" is as much a force in the universe as karma. And it's not that I think being a Provider is "bad" in a moral sense. Who am I to talk like that, anyway? But I do know that it can be a hard job and a hard life. That's what I don't want for her. How many Providers would want their daughters to follow in their footsteps? I wouldn't want my sons to join the French Foreign Legion either.
Yes, I could be projecting, but don't forget I know her too. She's not a wild girl, but she's led a pretty wild life up till now. Naturally I cringe when she wants to venture out into another "grey area."
It may not be karma, but when stuff like this happens, it makes you think, doesn't it?
See if you could help her financially, I know this is not always viable. Overwhelming number of providers, are probably in this business because of finanical shortcomings. "Belle de Joure", was an exception ... [the award winning movie by Louis Bunnel]
Helping her financially has become a bad habit with me. Every time she screws up her life because of bad decisions and ignoring advice, she comes to me with a sad story and her hand out. She has a school-age son whom she wields like a club to shake more of daddy's money loose.
The worst mistake I ever made was feeling sorry for her and helping her out financially. Part of me suspects this is just another ruse...
That nightmare is one, many parents create for themselves. By never allowing our children to deal with the consequences of their actions and always being there to pick up the pieces, we do them no favors. By creating emotional CRIPPLES, we not only keep them weak, we turn them out into a society that isn't nearly as forgiving as we are. Plus I personally believe, children that aren't allowed to grow-up, have a much harder time ajusting in the Real World and end up loosing respect for or hating that parent for it. Children are resilient and bounce back, when they are allowed to make their own mistakes and learn from them. Over-coming adversity, makes us people of substance and character. Isn't that the kind of adults we'd like our children to be.? I think by keeping them dependant on us, some may find it an ego trip or a way of relieving some past guilt. How selfish is that..?? Just my opinion..Robyn
Robyn,
Your writings are so intelligent and wise ... you are my new Dear Abby ... seriously ... one of these day, I will make the drive to Palm Spring just for you ...
Cum-on-down STRANGER...night or day*wink..!! Thanks for the sweet comment....My answers do come from the heart..I guess that makes a difference....But my service as a Provider does too...You'll just have to see for yourself...So cum on out and Play....Kiss Kiss, Robyn
I agree with what you said, Robyn, though I'm not sure about the ego trip part. I still have guilt over what my divorce years ago put the kids through. They took it better than a lot of kids do, but it still had to have affected them. That guilt has made me a sucker and I know I've over-compensated in some ways to make myself feel better. It really hasn't been good for my daughter, and I'm not doing it any more (truly).
PC
imagine if she came home & said she wanted to become a Republican!!! Whoa!!!
A mother/daughter combo! TWINS was a dream come true. I think it would be absolutely WILD to be banging a mother and her daughter at the same time! I know a lot of the ladies here have kids. SOMEONE must have a hot little daughter over 18 by now! Post up ladies, I think we are on to something here!
CFA
OMG, Here's my case in point, ZERO substance: See my previous posting, I REST MY CASE...!!!!
No, nothing wrong with the idea...But...There's a time and place for everything....Just the fact that you have to ask, proves my point....Sorry Bud, you just don't get it....Can you spell DUH.?
Karma is a funny thing-funner is the way our minds work. I can't believe that your daughter would have to become anything based on what you did, rather I would think that she is dealing with her own karma. Hopefully a starting point will be your dauther's happiness, then you can go from there!
Joey
... I think that should clarify things.