That was a very informative post HPG. I wish I could have put it so well.
The news out of Iraq just keeps getting better and better. Hopefully it will continue.
I remember seeing a news story where they showed an Iraqi looter in a library.... he/she wasn`t looting the books... he/she was throughing them on the ground to steal the shelves. Maybe they should think about reading some of them.
Ya gotta love this one. When asked about the looting in Iraq:
"Looting, he added, was not uncommon for countries that experience significant social upheaval. "Stuff happens," Rumsfeld said."
Well, we experienced that in LA at least twice that I can remember!
1] Infamous Watt Riots
2] I think during the Rodney King/Police Officers trial
of Bush Senior's quotes. It's the "looting thing".
...the British defence secretary who, earlier in the week before the looting got as bad, described relieving the regime of it's office equipment etc as "good practice". What an idiot!
I mean, we only have riots after sports championships, Democratic National Conventions, World Trade Organization Meetings, or lay in the street to disrupt traffic, or to try and stop shipments of weapons to our toops.
Sheesh, what the heck would happen here if we'd been under the boot of a tyrant for 24 years. I'm kinda thinking all bets would be off.
There'd be a LOT of pissed off people running around trying to believe, comprehend, embrace or digest the fact that they don't have to wake up in fear for their life if they step out of line. Christ, personally, I'd want to skin one of the regime leaders alive.
I don't in any way shape or form condone, approve of or support looting, theft or the hacking into small bits of "holy men," but I totally understand why it's happening.
Yeah, and you gotta ask yourself, was the Bush administration prepared for this "looting thing" and did thay plan for it. The graphic images on TV of Iraqis running out of a bank in a northern Iraqi city, using money as confetti would seem to answer that question. MfSD.
views the looting as a sign of sucess. Few attempts have been made to curb the looting and a great effort has been made to tell the world about it.
Puleeeeze! Sure! President Bush really wanted the looting to occur. Just look at all the good publicity that the his administration is receiving because of it. I don't feel that we were quite prepared for the level that is occurring, but remember, our troops are still going after members and supporters of Saddam's regime. It's war. War contains a lot of chaos. All wars do. I do agree that Rumsfield's comment damn sure was inappropriate. It was a very poor choice of words. I think that, overall, he is a good Secretary of Defense, but he certainly has made some mistakes. In any case, the Bush administration certainly is not happy about the looting. They are preparing to send approximately 1,200 military police into the area, as a start, to help restore some kind of order. The Iraqis are experiencing emotions and thoughts that we in this country can not even begin to imagine. The looting is certainly wrong, but let's not let cynicism about the President cloud our judgement. Other than that, I have absolutely not opinion at all on the subject.
Bush did not want the looting and I am sure he does not support looting but as a political tool it could not have happened at a better time. Bush has delayed controlling the looting as a tool of war, knowing that internal unrest could only help our war and political efforts. Our military could have controlled looting two weeks ago but deliberately ignored the problem.
Exactly how would you have the President control the looting? Would you have him order our officers in the field to use a platoon, a company, or a possibly an entire battalion of our soldiers to guard the museums and government buildings? Be realistic. This is a war. We haven't even rooted out all of the snipers and pockets of resistance in Baghdad. There is no way that we should weaken our position to save artifacts. I know that it is a terrible tragedy that so many of the ancient articles of art have been looted, but there are much worse tragedies that occur in war. We have been in Baghdad less than a week. We are just beginning to increase the supply of water to people, and are just starting to work on the electrical plants for power. But, then again, perhaps we should not have gone in militarily. Perhaps, those more than a hundred children who refused to join the Baath Party Youth Group should still be in prison. Perhaps we should have waited until after the next International Olympics, so that Iraqi athletes who failed to win a medal could be tortured upon their return to Iraq. Plus, let's not forget about the children who were murdered by Iraq's version of Stalin and whose bodies were returned to their families with their eyes cut out. Hmmmmmmm.....yes, perhaps we should have stayed home. Then, we could all just put our heads in the sand and smile while living in some kind of goddamn fantasy world. The terrible things that have happened over the last 3 1/2 weeks in this war are the reasons that whenever we go to war, we go in, get it over with as soon as possible, and then get out when the time is right. I'm saddened by the loss of articles of ancient history, but I am more saddened by the loss of life which is a price for freedom that is paid from time to time over the course of history. Freedom has never come cheap, and it will not be cheap in the future. However, I will always avoid the leaders who chose Neville Chamberlain's path, and always chose to follow a path described by Winston Churchill. Somehow, I think the future generations of Iraqis would agree. Othere than that, I have absolutely no opinion on the subject.
and protect the Baghdad museum. It is a fix location unlike hospital sites which are many and spread all over town.
I understand that initial looting is inevitable and generally accept the decision of allowing the letting off of stream and the tough love of forcing the population to organize a form of neighborhood watch and self policing.
However, just like the coalition's painstaking plans to avoid damages to historic and archaeological sites, the planners should place more thoughts on protecting the Iraqi heritage displayed in the museum. Those are artistic and historical treasures that belonged to all humanities.
Shouldn't the National Gallery or the Louvre be protected if similar situation happened in DC or Paris?
How many of you are aware that our cantankerous Secretary of Defense is also a poet. Yes his words resonate with a simplicity and spare beauty that is hard to dismiss.
I include this link as a sort of goof. I understand that some of you may take offense with the lack of basic tact demonstrated by those in charge of this war. At the same time I hope you can recognize that everything seems to have turned out almost exactly as they said it would and we appear to be on the verge of having pulled off a major international police action with a minimum loss of life and property and by all rights the Iraqi people seem to be in a much better position than they were a month ago. Not that this was our only intention. The US fought this war as a sort of 'honor killing' based on demonstrating to this war-like part of the world that we will simply NOT be fucked with. It is unfortunate that we had to dress it up in all this other secondary bullshit (Democracy, WMD..) But the fact is that we have just utterly dominated and conquered another nation and what we do from here on out will demonstrate that we can wield this sort of power in a humanistic and honorable way. The whole world is watching after all.
So my point is I guess that sometimes the people that are entrusted with these types of responsibilities will NOT be the type that can hold forth with charming repartee at the best cocktail parties. Except for Rummy of course. He seems to have a way with words if you ask me. "Stuff" does "Happen"!! What do you want the man to say?? I'd buy him a drink any day.
Thanks you for listening.
-- Modified on 4/12/2003 11:40:03 PM
-- Modified on 4/12/2003 11:41:23 PM