... is not "done" yet with only a few hundred responses.  I'm willing to bet that the PhD/Master's degree category is going to correspond almost exactly to the >$100K category on the previous survey of Income.  Anyone want to bet against me?

Why would you assume that a graduate degree necessarily translates into a six-figure income?  Are you assuming that the ranks of "hobbyists" do not include teachers and professors, who very often have grad degrees and very rarely get paid that much?  Or do you have some desperate need to believe against all evidence that there's some rhyme or reason in the way our capitalist system apportions wealth?

ELLERBY,

I find myself curious as to the reason this seems important enough to you for this post to have been made.(?)  Is a degree the only measure of intelligence?  Not in my experience...which is with people from all walks of life.  Nor is it an accurate measure of an individual's net worth.  I've known many people with PhDs who lacked common sense & had somewhat limited knowledge (outside their particular discipline) & many with a minimal formal education who I've thought had much more on the ball.

And I personally feel that if education or wealth is the only measure someone uses to evaluate another individual, that someone is lacking in their evaluation process.  Isn't the character of that other person what's really important?  Aside from all that, I think it's not unreasonalbe to assume the majority of the "regulars" on this site have a sufficient financial ability to support the hobby.      

Not all polls by TER happen be interesting enough for me to take the time to "vote"---as was the case in the prior poll regarding length of hair.  Perhaps that is an explanation of what your consider to be the dearth of votes in this poll.

If I've read something into your post incorrectly, or if you feel this was a personal attack...then I apologize.  It's simply MHO, perhaps prompted by some recent situations upon which upon I don't care to elaborate.

Sorry...I'm about to say something "simplisitic" and unpopular.

Income level has nothing to do with what the guy is willing to pay. "cheap ba----d's" are both white and blue collar workers. I've had "Casino Doormen/Bellboys" be extremely generous, and CEO's haggle over my rates (and visa versa). Some guys have the money to spend, some save up for their two or three "flings" a year, and some are just cheap ba----d's period regardless of what their education is and how much money they make. Sorry, it's true. If a guy is generous he is generous regardless of how many letters he has behind his name.

And...what about the educated providers? I was suprised  and "shocked" at how many of the top ladies have degree's and or other business's of their own besides this one. I was NEVER one of the "top" girls in my short career, and even "I" was smart enough to use the income as venture capital for other business's. My clients were not suprised that I was intelligent...they realized that this was not all I was/am capable of doing. They never put me into predefined categories and I did the same for them. I dont think we should lump anyone (hobbyist or provider) into convenient categories and call it the gospel.

Give us some credit (Hobbyist and Providers)...We usually dont prejudge eachother, so dont prejudge us.

my 02. cents

Hey Ellerby...

Sounds like your getting blasted by everyone!  But, I happen to agree with you...Like it or not, certain attributes go with certain professions and people!  I dont know how anyone got that one wasnt smart if they didnt have a Doctorate!  You simply stated that DEGREE=MONEY...Which in MOST (Please read my last word - MOST) cases does equate!

So...Ill agree with you!  Now lets get blasted by everyone!  

What would be unusual about people with advanced degrees earning a higher income. Not everyone with an advanced degree will earn a high income, but I would say it increases the chances that they do.

Also, there is both a rhyme and reason in how our capitalist system apportions wealth. For me to have an income, at least one other person has to think I am worth it and believe it so much that they give it to me (either all at once if they employ me, or a little at a time if I run my own business). WIth the exception of bank robbers, this is how it works.

since i only have a bachelors degree compared to my cousin, who has a phd, i dont necessarily agree that the greater your degree the higher the  income. i make more money than my cousin does, yet, i went to school half as long as he did. does this fact make my character any less than his, since he has a phd? does it say i am less intelligent? i dont think so. since character is what is really important, i agree with greywolf.

High salaries don't necessarily translate into a real wealth. In Stanley's "The Millionaire Next Door", the critical factor in accumulating wealth seems to be spending habits. If one's frugal, then it is possible to accumulate in excess of a million in a lifetime, even on a relatively modest salary.

Stanley singled out M.D.'s as among the worst candidates to accumulate real wealth. Ph.D.-professor types did better, largely because they were better savers.

can I pool them all together? Only one has a higher education, the others never went to class.  I used to be VERY intelligent, but a few years back, I (ok, one of me) decided it was overrated. "Mr. Spock" just didn't seem to really understand that intelligence without feeling was a waste of time; while feeling without intelligence still feels good. I'm sorry, even bored myself; what was the question again?

and a great book.

I was only referring to the 'income' side of things as a function of education.

There is also a correlation between average net worth and education but spending habits play a much greater role.

Doctors and lawyers typically have high incomes, but their net worth in relation to their incomes is lower than many other groups of people who earn far less. As you pointed out this is because of their lifestyle choices. They drive a 60K BMW, or live in a very expensive house in a trendy neighborhood. The authors of the study found that (much to their surprise) the typical (net worth) millionaire was a middle aged guy who did not have an advanced degree, owned his own business, lived in a middle class community and lived a modest lifestyle despite his wealth.

Check out the swanky restaurants in Beverly Hills and you will find people who more likely to be spenders of money rather than accumulators of wealth. They may have high incomes, but a lot of em ain't keeping much of it.

Sex and The City recently offered a prime example in Carrie Bradshaw. A woman who presumably earns a lot of money, doesnt own her home or car, has no savings or investments, but owns $40,000 worth of designer shoes. We can also presume she has sizable outstanding balances on her credit cards.

Net Worth = Negative Number (We will assume that used shoes have little if any resale value).

The book is quite good in that it shwos how even people with modest incomes can become wealthy if they watch their money and live reasonable lifestyles.

I do have an advanced degree but I don't waste my money. I enjoy certain luxuries like the women we talk about but I dont make a habit of seeing the most expensive ones often. The car I drove to work today is worth less than my watch (another luxury I enjoy, but both the car and watch are paid for and I plan on having the watch another 20 years at least). I also got the watch tax free and 25% off the market (not list) price.

I went to graduate school and I can tell you that character has little to no correlation with the level of a persons education. Many of the people I most admired for their characters had little formal education and had to work all their lives to privide for their families, but they did it and ended up (at least relatively) well off.

I still maintain that higher levels of education DOES "correlate" with higher levels of income, but this does not mean that someone with a PHD will automatically make more than someone with a bachelors or even a hs diploma. It just means that on average you will tend to see that trend. (People who drop out of high scoll tend to earn less than people who do not, people who completed college tend to earn more than people who did not go, etc. Note I said "tend".

Bill Gates, who never graduatated from university, is a prime example that this rule is not uniformly true. As is someone who got a job out of high school as a plumber and ended up occasionally supporting their lazy brother who got a PHD in history and decided to use it making tie dyed t-shirts in Santa Cruz.

It is well documented that people with advanced degrees, particularly a JD, MBA or MD, will, ON AVERAGE, be paid more over their lifetime than people with no degree -- afterall, there has to be some financial incentive in our capitalist society to put yourself through the cost and torture of a JD or MBA

However, this doesn't translate into greater overall accumulated wealth (net worth).  As other contributors have pointed out, net worth seems to correlate with living a moderate life style and being a little stingy!  Therefore, one way to accumulate greater net worth is to pay careful attention to a provider's fees...

I know I'm going to get called a cheap, stingy, b------ by at least one contributor to this forum, but really guys, why would you pay more than $$$/hr to anyone?  Sans taxes, that's more per hour than I pay my lawyer, and much more than most medical doctors get paid (and a helluva lot more than most PhD/Professors get paid).  I've been able to find some very nice, very good looking girls for around $$, and I never pay more than $$$.  All of the girls I see work hard for their living, and I don't begrudge them a thing, but I think everyone is open to a little negotiation and discussion of rates.

So, be nice and be fair, but also be smart and negotiate a little.  Let's not forget that we're in the middle of a recession and we have to do our part to stimulate the economy but keep inflation down

100% correct

with all those personalities maybe you can
right them off as dependants!
Taxdog?

I personally agree with just about all of them ...

1. It is well documented that higher education and income correlate.

2. High income and high net worth don't correlate because net worth has more to do with saving and spending, not intake.

3. Neither high income nor high net worth correlate with personal worth, worth to society, being a good (or even nice) person, or anything of the personal values that count most in life and relationships.  

4. Society (and business) has an inherently "unfair" and narrow point of view in determining who are recipients of large cash flows and who aren't.  I find it amusing when some people therefore equate their own large cash flows with some lofty sense of "superiority".

Once again, thanks everyone for a good discussion! - E

... because it appears that the >$100k income category is indeed significantly larger than the Masters/PhD category.  So there are ways to make $$ without the advanced degree ... ain't it a great country?  Have a good weekend, all! - E