I wish the same could be said for his keyboard.
He wasn't the only one who didn't seem to get it, but he was the only one really being an idiot about it. Like anyone should be surprised.
OK...so I've made an ass out of myself by asking a question that sounded stupid once I read it back...here's the deal and my question...
I'm entertaining a client soon and want to offer him some "companionship", but I'd like to set it up in advance...but I don't know if he will even accept it. I can't have the conversation with him in advance about whether he'd like to partake so I think the only option is to either take my chances with a last minute booking if he is willing or set something up and pay for it whether he partakes or not. The problem becomes verification...he can't be verified in advance (see above) so I offered to be verified and vouch for him considering we will be in a 2 BR suite and I will be in the suite but not in the bedroom.
Does anyone have a suggestion on how I can set this up in advance??? Its in Vegas by the way, and to the provider I just chatted with (if you read this) I realize my question was odd, hope you understand that its a tough situation and I'm only trying to find a solution that is comfortable for everyone.
thanks
Are you sure that's what you want to do?
by your definition I am both bribed and bribe others myself constantly. If you buy a guy a three hundred dollar meal or pay for a three hundred dollar escort, what's really the difference? I go the extra mile to "wow" my clients and I expect vendors trying to get in my pocket to do the same, it's not bribery, it's just business and the smart ones think "outside the box", or in this case "inside one" lol
To the OP, contrary to what the manginas and other assorted pussies on the board will tell you, this really is not uncommonn at all. It should not be that difficult for you to find a provider that will feel comfortable enough by screening you for you to accomplish what you are trying to do. Not all will do this of course, but there are enough that will to make this not only possible, but relatively easy.
Being in the oil business, I have done this on numerous ocassions, and have done so with great success. Your question is far from stupid IMO. I only wish more of the people trying to "bribe" me would do it in this way. lol
It is a lot easier if you are doing it in your own hometown, it's quite easy to set up an arrangement with a lady or two in advance if you are going to be doing this on a regular basis. I've even set it up so the client wasn't even aware that it was p4p, I simply arranged for a lady to "allow" herself to get picked up by my client and he never knew that I had paid her. All he knew was that I took him out on the town and he had a fabulous time, the cost for the allnighter paled in comparison to the amount of business I ended up doing with this particular client. lol
In short, I say "go for it." Nothing says "I care" like getting a guy laid for free. He will remember you far longer than the guy who buys him an expensive bottle of wine at dinner. lmao
As far as the bribery point, you've convinced me. Still, I agree with the other posters that it's a lousy idea. Maybe in the "awl bidness" this can work, and that's fine. But in many others my guess is it would backfire badly. That's just being pragmatic, not a pussy, BTW.
As a matter of fact I am think about buying a condo here in Colombia for that very purpose of flying my bigger clients down for an "all inclusive" weekend on me.
As I said, "it's not bribery, it's just business", obviously you have to pick and choose who is going to be open to this type of "gift" and who will go all self ritghteous on you, but I will leave that for the OP to decide when the time comes.
Business all over the world is done by "greasing the wheels", what's wrong with a little lube instead? lol
You could easily turn this guy into an ex-client were you to set him up with something he finds distasteful.
I'd say this is what strip clubs were invented for. See if he would like to go (with no harm done if he would not- maybe it's not his gig), have a good (and LEGAL) time. Then you can sound him out delicately about if he'd like to go to the "dark side".
don't do it if you are not sure he will be receptive to your offer.If he decides he does not want any fun then that will be awkward for you and the lady you are trying to set your client up with.Maybe you could give him a hint about seeing a lady and see what his reaction is.Or like the other reply you could take him to a strip club and then maybe approach the subject on him seeing a lady in a more private setting.
Does the provider know you are setting up an appt. for another person?
You don't know how he will react or partake in such activity.
Do you know how he treats, interacts with other women?
Has he done this before?
Too many questions, no answers. Save a client and maybe yourself some embarrassment and take him to a stripclub for a couple drinks and VIP treatment with a dancer. That should accomplish your goal.
Don't do it!
Too many questions, no answers. Save a client and maybe yourself some embarrassment and take him to a stripclub for a couple drinks and VIP treatment with a dancer. That should accomplish your goal.
Don't do it!
its about safety. He could be nuts for all you know in that situation.
I would never entertain this.
I need to verify the actual client, not his friends co workers neighbor brother and so on.
This is not the kinda thing that should be a surprize, imho.
I'll go along with the majority of replies here: unless you're 100% sure he's cool with it, don't do it.
In the cases it has happened to be it's always been with a client of mine who knows I participate. I travel with my clients a lot of times and many of them are, to be kind, "careless" when they play. For example having a provider come to their room when the rest of the team is staying on the same floor of the same hotel. So I've seen a provider show up at their room (once it was even a provider I knew quite well). The next day I mentioned it 1-on-1 to the guy in a way that he knew I knew, and that I was fine with it and did some myself. Even pointed a few this way so they could hopefully learm a bit more about being discrete. Some of those guys have "surprised" me with a session.
Even then it's not the best idea since tastes are so individual. I tend to be quite particular and someone else often doesn't choose providers I would have chosen. Sometimes their selections have worked out OK, but some have been total "no chemistry" sessions.; not her fault so I don't write up those reviews.
If you ARE 100% convince a client is interested (not 95% sure) even then I'd make sure I knew their tastes long before thinking about anything. Lots can go wrong. The strip club idea and some carefully worded conversation afterwards might be a reasonable feeling out approach but I've never done it. As to screening, the one occasion I set something like that up I used a provider I had seen several times, told her the situation from the beginning, and arranged for 2 women to come over, one to his room one to mine. She was OK with it but I don't know how others would take it. I had no screening info about the other guy to give her so it was my personal cred with her that she went on in that case.
I've been a business man for thirty years, and been to many conventions with both clients and customers and never has anyone ever injected this kind of activity into the social circumstances.
The reason is simple: The potential for a career ending situation is rife with pay for play. It is also so unnecessary.
When I go to conventions, I make plans ahead of time to see gals on my time and discreetly so no one knows about it. For all you know this client will just be coming from his own engagement, and won't even be able to have another round.
If you want to impress this client, get him tickets to the best show in town and wine and dine him, the good old fashion way.
When I lived in Vegas and entertained clients I was routinely asked to "set something" up, when in Dallas during the "oil boom" of the 80's this was so common it didn't even raise an eyebrow. I could go on and on about businesses where this type of thing is not only done, but is commonplace.
I don't know what planet the rest of you live on, but pussy has been a motivator for getting deals done since there has been business. Obviously, you have to use a bit of discretion, as it does have the possibility of backfiring on you if the guy is not receptive to it, but I have done it many, many times over the years and have never had any negative consequences.
Glad you haven't been burned, but others have been whether you want to believe it or not.
Different businesses are different, and you obviously never arranged for a provider to show up at a bible thumping zealot's place. In the overly PC world of today it can kill someone's career. Just because someone else's experience/opinion is different from yours doesn't make it bullshit. Seems for all your broad life experiences you have still lived a narrow slice of life.
I am living proof that it is done.
I have also done it in the very city that the OP was asking about. He wasn't asking about Charleston SC, he was asking about Sin City.
You are the one who seems to have lived a "narrow slice of life" or else you have a reading comprehension problem. The guy asked for advice, as someone who has done this before I gave him some, without a lecture I might add.
Sometimes I wonder if I am on a Fuck board, or if I have inadvertantly joined a fucking church social.
Unlike you and your ilk, I am not going to make moral or business judgements for other people, he asked the best way to make this happen with the least risk to himself. He didn't ask for career advice, or a lesson in business ethics, you are the one being judgemental,not me. I actually gave some advice relating to the OP's question. I believe the OP is an adult who can make his own decisions on whether or not he wants to proceed. I didn't see anything in his post asking for our approval.
Than what do you mean by calling someone else's oppinion bullshit, is that a new way of complementing them?
and I am living proof that it is done, hence I called bullshit. To him and to you. The difference is, I actually like Mrfisher.
I walk away from my computer for the morning and it turns into a free-for-all...sorry I started this thread given the varied responses!
While I appreciate the business advise and moral judgments, like the "smarter brother" posted above, I can state without a doubt this happens every single day. I've been in my line of work for 25 years and spent the last 20 in constant contact with clients. I've set things like this up at least 100 times but always on my home turf where I knew a provider who would assist. Likewise, I am in contact with vendors all the time and have had the same done for me more times than I care to count.
So the reality is it happens EVERY DAY...while I am involved in a business context I venture to guess the same is true in the political and/or public sector as well so no one is immune.
Perhaps rather than pass judgment accepting that the world sometimes works in ways you don't agree with is a better approach.
It depends on with whom you are doing business.
I remember how shocked I was when a client of mine offered to "set me up" with something.
I will admit, that really took me aback. But then I realized that in HIS world of business, this was routine and seen as no more problematic than offering a guy a cigar.
But there are other realms of business -- which is where 99% of my business is -- where no way on earth would such a thing be done or offered; annd doing so WOULD create a disaster.
It really depends on the kinds of business you are doing, and with whom.
Nowhere in the OP did he ask "if" he should do it, he asked "how" he could best do it.
Why can't anyone accept the fact that the OP is a big boy, perfectly capable of making his own decisions? Of course there are numerous industries where this simply not accepted behavior on his (or my) part, but who are we to judge for the OP whether or not this is acceptable behavior in "his" business? Unlike others here, I will give the OP enough credit to assume he knows what he is doing where it comes to running his own business. It just amazes me that I seem to be the only one who doesnt feel the need to lecture the OP on business ethics.
If the OP ever asks us our opinion on whether or not he "should" do this than all of these posts will be perfectly relevant, and maybe even helpful.Until then let's give the OP credit for being able to make his own risk/reward decisions.
Let me put this another way. How would you like it if you asked the board for suggestions on how to accomplish something, and instead of advice you got a series of moral lectures from people who had no idea about your specific situation, but just spouted off anyhow from their moral high horse?
My point really doesn't address the OP at all, who I assume to be a big boy -- more to make the point that what is acceptable varies with clients and industry.
In the high end of high tech consulting, I was routinely offered to have escorts paid for by clients. But in the business of firearms accessories or organic produce? No way Jose!
But there's no way you'd necessarily know that unless you were involved in those industries particularly.
As to whether or not it is acceptable in the OP's industry -- only he is in a position to know.
they just leaped to conclusion without the slightest idea of what kind of business the OP is in. Like you, I will assume that the OP is intelligent enough to discern what is and is not acceptable in his industry.
This is supposed to be an adult forum, but people are constantly being treated as little kids who can't make their own life decisions. For people engaging in a "hobby" that is considered immoral and is obviously illegal in the US to boot, this board seems to have more than it's share of very judgemental people.
Doesn't it seem ironic that the people who claim to be the most open minded and accepting so often turn out to be the most closedminded and unaccepting?
-- Modified on 12/29/2010 8:20:21 AM
Probably the most closed-minded places I have seen on earth are supposedly the most open-minded -- most notably, academia. Academia is the most closed-minded, rigid and dogmatic place I have ever been.
The hobby is a lot like that. We think of ourselves as so (classically) liberal and open-minded; yet some providers will savage any provider who doesn't handle business the way they do; and hobbyists will disparagingly label other hobbyists who approach the hobby with different objectives, etc.
I call this phenomenon "virtue without effort."
Real virtue, in a Nietzschean as opposed to theological sense, comes from deeds rather than beliefs. And deeds require effort.
Condemnation of others on the basis of mere belief is a way of assigning oneself virtue without the required effort of deeds.
Many people enjoy things that you or I probably find disgusting DATO, sex with trannies etc., but most mainstream members of society make those very same judgements about us.
The ridicule that is heaped on people with different sexual appetites on this board is just another example of how narrow minded people on this site can be. BTW in my own defense, I call Xfean "Trannyboy" not because I don't respect his right to have sex with whatever consenting adult he chooses, I do it because I don't like "him" lol
My point was "if you're not sure he'd take it, don't do it" (which he actually did mention in his post). Not "don't do it". I specifically said he should find out if he wants to come over to the dark side before making the offer.
There's also the factor that once you find out that it's all cool and greenlighted, you can do things like make sure the escort matches your customer's tastes, which is difficult to do when you're working blind.
and the OP seems quite aware of the risks of offering this type of "perk" to the wrong client.
Other people have flat out said that this type of thing "just isn't done" and stated flat out "don't do it", those were the posters I was talking about.
I also tried to offer some practical advice instead of a moral admonishment, using an agency should eliminate most of the screening issues, and will allow him to make a short notice appointment "after" he has determined his client is even receptive to the idea. It will also afford him a variety of ladies to choose from so he can try to find a lady that meets his clients taste. Can you imagine "suprising" a client with a woman that he finds totally unattractive?
As I stated, your post was not the one I found offensive, some of the other posters got on their moral high horse without knowing a thing about the thought process the OP had evidently already put into this, those are the posts I take issue with.
but i've never allowed myself to be wooed by sex when it comes to business. NOW IN THE HOME?!!! lol
She was part of a business deal; but taking that deal (and the sex) would have been a bad decision in the long run.
People try to bribe each other in various ways and in terms of manipulation, using sex is no different than using fine print at the bottom of a car ad.
I see my role in business as to make the BEST decisions, not necessarily the easiest or most personally pleasurable.
So sex has never worked on me; though it has been offered.
I don't hold it against the person making the offer, of course. All is fair in war.
Why don't you ask a couple of the agencies in Vegas if they would be open to something like this. It might save you from having to confirm a date and time with an indy that you might get stuck paying a cancellation fee if the guy isn't receptive to the idea. Plus you could always order two girls, I mean you have to do "something" while he is having his fun, right?
There are a few quite reputable agencies that advertize on TER, why don't you give one of them a call. I am willing to bet at least one of them will be open to the idea.
why so many people find this whole concept difficult. Mind boggling to say the least.
Businessmen have been sending prostitutes to clients and associates for years.
I had been the recipient of a "gift" myself and was offered another time within the last few months.
I had also offered a "gift" to a business associate from Europe during one of his visits. While he declined my offer, we remain solid associates.
Funny thing is that one time he said he was turning in early because he had to get up early in the morning. About midnight I saw him walk into a strip club. I guess he just wanted to keep that aspect of his time more private.
To the OP. Go for it as long as you believe the business relationship will continue either way. That's the real key.
despite Algina's protestations to the contrary.
I wish the same could be said for his keyboard.
He wasn't the only one who didn't seem to get it, but he was the only one really being an idiot about it. Like anyone should be surprised.
Or maybe it’s “learn to think”. For someone who has some decent thoughts you can be amazingly blind. To recap, with quotes, what I ACTUALLY wrote vs what you want to believe I wrote:
According to you: “Well so much for the theory that "this doesn't happen" in business despite Algina's protestations to the contrary.”
What I actually wrote: “from someone who has received such "gifts"….”, and “the one occasion I set something like that up….” And, “Different businesses are different”
Please explain to me where I said “This doesn’t happen”? You don’t seem to worried about accuracy in your accusations. Disagree with what I post if you want (and I’m sure you will) but try commenting on what I DID write. Sorry if that makes things tougher for you and your ego.
Oh, and for completeness: you whine that people didn’t strictly keep to the litteral question in the OP. But if I look at your posts on this thread they too wander. I thought this was a DISCUSSION board, one where there is a degree of steam-of-consciousness. Are your digressions allowable but others’ are not?
If you're not sure don't make the attempt. I'm not gonna put myself on the line for unsurety.
If it was me and someone was offering to set me up, I'd be afraid I was being set up! Where are the cameras behind the mirror, microphone in the lamp, guy in a fedora busting through the door or out of the closet with a flash bulb and a big bellows camera? "Let's do business my way or you'll be plastered all over the front pages!"
Based on my extensive experience watching television shows and movies, I'm thinking that it does happen but with consequences that can be both good for business (GGa, et al) or totally ruinous for business and the people involved.
I'll try to sum up my responses to all the posts in this one post...
I address the moral questions a little while ago...some of you are right, I'm a seasoned business professional that has done quite well on my own so thanks all the same for the advise but no thanks.
This isn't a "buy my widgets and I'll get you laid" deal...its a "we've been doing business for 5 years, you got me laid in your city now I'll get you laid here" deal.
This is a friend and colleague, I'm concerned he might not partake because (1) he is tired (2) he is busy (3) he just isn't in the mood...our relationship isn't such that he would question my motivation. I didn't mention this in my OP because, well, I didn't think it was germane to my dilemna.
To sum up my problem, forgot the verbiage, I want to "surprise" a friend with a provider...so how do I handle verification?
During the course of the this morning I found a provider who did exactly as I hoped...she verified me as a "reference", she will provide her services on the condition that we meet in a public place before hand and that I am in the suite while she is having her alone time in the next room.
To those that tried to help, thank you...to those that provided their unwanted ethical points of view, I respect your positions but I don't agree with them.