Your point kind of adds the word professional to the hobby. Just because a girl has a pu$$y, doesn't make her a provider!
Was wondering if there are any minority hobbiest out there and if they have had bad experiences because of their race? And if some providers dont provide services for minorities? And how would you know? Does upscale mean no minorities? I went to one of the brothels up near reno once and learned that some of the women dont
see black guys(me). Just looking for some tips to save myself from a bad experience. Searched on this topic but couldn't find any hits. Thanks in advance.
I have had the same problem before. So the last time it happen, I decided in the future to inform all providers before meeting them that I am African American. IMHO upscale does not mean no minorities, all races have low life scum that may put a provider in a situation that she is uncomfortable with.
It is sad to know in the year 2003 that discrimination still exists and individuals are still singled-out because of their skin color or national origin. I think providers that use the wording upscale and VIP in their ads and websites are showing more about themselves than they realize. What does this verbage mean to the person using it? It is vague and non-specific and personally I find those terms offensive as a form of selection for whom you would see and whom you would not. As a hobbyist I would think long and hard about even considering seeing a provider who used these words in ad copy. When I did run ads----I stated "Your all VIP's to me". Same premise of when starting in academics on the first day of class you all have an A. My value structure for individuals has nothing to do with the external features. It's all about the internal mechanisms and how one outwardly project themselves that ultimately give foundation as to how others choose to endear us.
PS. UNAVAILABLE until 2-04-03--For those that knew--my Mom's recovery is remarkable---and I look forward to being back home soon.
Only once have I encountered someone who discriminated due to race. My background is asian but I was born and raised in the US. I called this russian provider and she asked me what my nationality was. When I told her, she said 'sorry, i don't see, black, asian, or hispanic guys". I didn't want to be rude, but asked her how can she do good business when she discriminates more than half of the population.
People can make their choices, but if they decide to go into this business, they can't be that picky as to who they see.
Any feedback is welcome.
This is kind of a funny question--funny strange. In my city, a provider can really get flammed (badly) if they bring any of this crap on the boards. But still, there are a few providers who will straight out publish on their website that they don't see men of color! Here's one of the funny examples. The last time I remember it happening in Atlanta, the provider was a person of color herself. She was visiting and placed an ad on one of the boards and did not mention anything, but when everyone read her site--it said that she did not see men of color (can you believe it). Everyone got mad at her and flammed her back to her city. With all the providers I've seen I've only had one who told me she did not see men of color (her lost). I don't tell providers anything in advance because I don't buy in to it--though I understand why you would!
Personally, I learned a good lesson about this. One time, I had let people on a board know that I wanted to see a provider. I set-up an appointment but before I went, someone secretly emailed me that she did not see men of color. I went through with the session, but it was on my mind. The provider ended up being real nice and I had a great session, in fact, I've seen her twice. It was this experience that influenced me not to make an issue of it. I tend to have a much better time. As always, how you act is up to you. Peace!
Joey
-- Modified on 12/27/2002 8:06:05 AM
While I have to acknowledge the fact that there are many providers who make the choice to not see gentlemen of races other than White, I do not agree!!!!!!!!
Yes, this IS America so I am going to voice my opinion too!
I decided to post under Joey because we are from the same area and I totally support his posts. We have never formally met but I have respected his posts for a long time and want to here as well.
This is very simple. From a provider's position, we truly do not have any right to discrminate against anyone..... Let's set up a little scene here: I receive an email from a gentleman who is interested in seeing me. Yipee! I am flattered! I go through my screening process and talk to him on the phone and have a great conversation. Most important to me is that he IS a gentleman. If treated with respect on the phone, I can relax a bit and really look forward to spending some time with a man who I look forward to spoiling a bit. Now I go to my location and get ready and light the canles, turn on the music, put some cookies in the oven for a fresh snack, or cut some fruit to snack on afterwards.... (love the smell of good food in the air)
He calls me and tells me he is close and I give him exact directions and the next thing I know he is at my door. NOW...... If I am not an honest person I can fake my dissapointment and say hello if I am dissappointed but I am not dishonest! Can you imagine how my gentleman is going to feel if I can't truly enjoy his company even when he walks through my door??? There is no way in hell I am going to turn away a man simply because he has a different color skin!!!!!
Now here is where it gets a bit more interesting. Strangely enough, I can say that having dealt with all types of people from all over the world, there are a few valid generalities one can make about different culteral backgrounds. This does not mean anyhing bad just...different. All we can do is recognize them and appreciate them for what they are.
In my opinion, if a provider wants to turn away a decent hard working man who is willing to spend his hard earned money (or maybe not so hard earned) with me and try to find an escape or some simple pleasure with me, I think I am going to do my best to make that happen. I don't care if you are purple with pink polka dots, as long as you pass my screening and you are a gentleman, you are welcome to call me anytime.
Joey, I remember the girl you are talking about and if I recall, I got a bit excited about her too! I know there are well known girls in Atlanta who won't see men of color and it really stinks! I happen to know of one who confided in me and said she almost got brought out of her little closet and so she emailed another well known black man to see if he would see her so they wouldn't be able to say that anymore.... The interesting thing was, I was at his house cooking him dinner when he read that email and I almost got sick. The underhanded things women will do so save their reputations and keep their income steady! WE had a littl laugh, and he declined to save her ass....
If we tended to judge a little less, our possibilites of having a richer fuller life would increase in ways, you would never dream.
I'm not white, but I have no problems with SPs who choose not to see clients of certain ethnic backgrounds. They have as much a right to choose who they see as clients do (be it from personal preferences to ingrained negative prejudices/experiences). Hey, this is America, Land of Personal Freedoms! I just state upfront my ethnic background, so there are no surprises.
I remember one popular SP I saw who stated emphatically and in private that she didn't see black men; OK by me. If she didn't see men of my ethnic background, it would have been also OK by me; there are tons of great SPs who have no problems with a client's race (mine specifically). Maybe it's bad for business, but it's her choice.....
I live in NJ close to NYC and I have experienced this here in my state and others. It's kind of a bummer because there are jerks of all races that ruin it for everybody. And there are some ladies that are a little narrow minded and have their own set of issues with and about race. It's a shame but that's our society. But I have been with some wonderful providers (and swingers) where race didn't matter and it actually enhanced the time and created some wonderful new friends.
I believe that it is the ladies choice. When I first arrived here I had ladies black and white tell me not to see black men. They ran off a list of rules for each race.
I wanted to tell them, "Don't you SEE me? I'm black too!"
What gets me it why do black SPs not want to see black clients? Sounds like self hate to me.
I know a lot of us believe/hope that one day our hobby will become a real profession. That is, the price that we pay to providers might be compared to those paid PROFESSIONALS, like psychiatrist and such. Can you imagine a session covered by a HMO. What a intoxicating thought, a thought that doesn't last long (not too surprisingly). Keeping in line with the HBO special, we would like the profession to be legal. We respect our providers and feel they bring value to our lives. Oh, by the way, we also encourage our providers to openly engage in racist conduct. I get it now--this is America. After all, its the provider's body. We want society to accept us, but forget about the Supreme Court. If a provider wants to be bias toward the race of clients--that's prefectly fine with us. That's sobering! We're well on our way to becoming legal now!
-- Modified on 12/28/2002 7:06:56 PM
But I'm Hispanic and most ladies AFTER they see me say I'm either their first or they don't see many of us cholos.They say that if they knew I was Latino they might not have seen me. And what gets me is that our sessions are usually very good/fun that they end up having a good time.Sometime they'll call me just to say "hi" or "when can we get together again" etc.The way I look at it, I'm respectful and a really fun guy to be with, plus my dead presidents don't bounce. I guess the way they look at it is that the ladies want to establish a regular clientel and they don't see that with minorities. Tell that to my ATF.I've seen her once a week for over two years!
-- Modified on 12/27/2002 11:00:45 AM
-- Modified on 12/27/2002 11:52:33 AM
I hear you talking!
Joey
I don't beleive that upscale means necessarily means no minorities. In fact at times I am not sure whether it means anything other than somebody thinks it sounds good in an advertisement. This topic of what does "upscale" mean has been discussed at length on either this board or the Los Angeles Board. You should be able to find the thread by doing a search.
I don't think words like "upscale" or "VIP gentlemen" etc have anything to do with a client's ethnicity. I've always believed them to be more of a reference to a guy who is able to afford the lady's time & one who would have the sense to treat her with a degree of respect.
Certainly there are escorts whose websites might indicate a preference for clients of certain races, & perhaps many more who have preferences they don't advertise. But there are other such preferences as well...age being a common one. Whether or not anyone agrees with this as right or wrong isn't the point of my comments...the subject has been discussed on the boards many times. I think the simple solution to avoiding disappointment is to give the gal a thumbnail description of yourself..ethnicity, age profession, etc. Most "appointment request forms" ask for this type of information anyway. It's far better that she decline to see you in advance than to go forward & have a poor experience that might have been avoided.
Its all about preference! Some hobbyist prefer to see certain providers based on looks, race, donation, appearance, etc.
Some providers prefer to see certain hobbyist based on their previous experiences, social economic profile, attraction, tips, generosity, fun, ethic orgin, etc.
We all have are preference.
w_b, I think we are in agreement. As long as we hobbyists have our preferences & feel that we are entitled to them (it's our $), we should realize that the providers may have theirs too..& are likewise equally as entitled as we are. If they choose to exclude certain types of guys...& as we know, the exclusions aren't only about race...it's their choice to make (which may also affect their $).
I would never want to be with a woman who couldn't at least give me a believable illusion that she thoroughly enjoyed my company...& the more she has to force herself to create that illusion, the less believable it is. It's as important for the gals to choose the type of client that is "best" for them as it is for us guys to choose in the same manner.
providers have preferences, as do the guys..she wants to have a great time and feel comfortable too, she has every right to pick who's best for her, just as gentleman do..
kind of person he is. Why not screen in a color-blind way?
As long as you feel this way, I agree with NOSC that black men should not approach you. But why do you base it on skin color?
and booked her because of what 'type of person she is'...?? Guys dont book girls because they look like nice people. Why should I bend my preference and see a 'type' that Im generally not attracted just to please another person? Should I still go into a tryst KNOWING I wont be into and 'fake' the session because he's giving me money? Is that fair to him? Is it fair to me?
Why is it when the tables are turned and the provider gets picky, there's an upraor from the guys..a lot of you aren't attracted to certain physical characteristics, whether it be hair color, race or a woman's size...women have a preferences too.. Im color blind in my everyday life, but when it comes to intimate time with someone..I know what I prefer, just as you gentleman do..
Paramedic: "Sorry mame, just don't feel comfortable giving your husband CPR because he's not, well know, white. No hard feelings, but that is a pretty intimate act." Date anyone you want baby, but in the USofA, it says that businesses can't discriminate. BTW, this is just the theoretical argument and has nothing to do with the fact that I think you are incredible and can't wait to get into your panties (if you wear them this time) again. Just playing "devil's advocate"... another name for "liberal".
place yourself in the mind of a lady. Maybe you will have a different perspective then.
Again, the level of physical intimacy involved in this hobby (BJs, DATYs, various intercourses) is second to none. I believe some latitude should be given to the ladies in this regard.
Nurses, paramedics and physicians can't pick and choose who they take care of, they are bound by their duty to help all of humanity. Legitimate massage therapists spend an hour touching stranger's nude bodies in a darkened room and not once have I ever heard of one asking for anything else from their customers than they pay the required fee and be clean and respectful. When I was a dancer, I touched men and allowed many men to touch me. As long as they did so in a respectful manner and treated me kindly why on earth would I care what they looked like? My job was to seduce, to tease, and in some cases to satisfy these men. My primary concern was money, that's what I was there for. Unattractive men - well their money is green too, right?
I have always thought the job of escort to be an honorable one for that reason. They are a sexual outlet for not only young healthy, horny men, but also men who might not get laid otherwise: the unnattractive, the lonely, the obese, the recently widowed or emotionally damaged, the underendowed, the people with bad skin, bad teeth, thinning hair, men with buck teeth and annoying laughs and personalities as exciting as cold oatmeal. Still with all these flaws, there is always something positive you can find about every man (and every woman for that matter) and if the hobbyist is kind, decent and respectful to the service provider, I think they deserve to get the same service everyone else gets.
As for the old saw, "I should pick and choose who I see, it's my body" well that sounds good but really it's a SERVICE and we are called "service" providers. And to offer this service to people who you'd find attractive enough to give it to for free anyway...well...that doesn't make sense to me. This is one of the MANY reasons I limit my services to FBSM - putting my hands on someone's body doesn't seem to bring on the need for some of the race, age or marital status requirements that many escorts seem to have.
And Ali, surely you can't be saying it is necessary for you to be sexually attracted to everyone you see? If that is the case, why charge for your services?
-- Modified on 12/28/2002 7:30:46 PM
Your point kind of adds the word professional to the hobby. Just because a girl has a pu$$y, doesn't make her a provider!
and at the same time have a good time. At least this is the ideal situation they aspired to in this hobby. Many high end ladies do indeed meet many attractive, interesting and successful hobbyists along the way. They can pick and choose the creme de la creme, though this is getting harder to do so now in this weak economy.
Most of the independent ladies are in the middle. They have quite a bit of control of their destiny. They cannot afford to narrow the clientele too much to maintain a good living. However, they could still deny or reject a few clients from time to time.
Then there are the ladies with low rates or ladies with bad agencies. They have no say in choosing their clients.
I wish more ladies have the wherewithal to say no to hobbyists they found totally unattractive rather than simply going through the motion. There are ladies who specified in their sites about age range, height, physical fitness, occupation types, marital status and yes, ethnic group of their preferred clients. Many of those requirements I could not pass. I just move on and hold nothing against them. Ladies in this hobby have enough stress already.
I am a slightly overweight, average looking, late 30s guy. Quite a few times I got fewer services from ladies as indicated in their many reviews. This is YMMV, which in other words, often means that they found me less attractive than the other clients (fatigue could be a factor too, but not as often). This is OK with me as I too do things differently (energy, tips, etc) depending on how comfortable and attracted I was with that lady.
I have my own preference of physical type as do many other hobbyists. Many hobbyists are only attracted to certain body type/age group/cultural/ethnic group of ladies. Since we as hobbyists and initiators of contact have the latitude to select what type of ladies we paid for sex, I think the ladies should also been allowed to have the same latitude to accept or refuse their clients.
Just like love, one cannot rationalize like and dislike. We are all too human.
JMHO, Nctyguy has a better post in the LA board about similar topics http://theeroticreview.com/msgBoard/ViewMsgBody.asp?BoardID=1&Page=1&Messageid=60022 than I have stated above.
Enough said. Take care, good luck and happy New Year.
-- Modified on 12/29/2002 1:53:31 PM
even when she is not our preferred physical type.
If you feel that men value you only for your physical attractiveness, stop thinking that way! I know with absolute certainty that you have much more to offer than that.
The process of aging can become an increasingly sad and desperate affair for women who feel valued only for their looks - don't let this happen to you!
their first meeting. I am sure you won't simply pay to meet a lady you are not attracted in the first place.
Reading messages on the board will help to know the other person a bit. However, ladies in this hobby don't have the luxury hobbyists have as the initiators of contact.
Unfortunately, this hobby is mainly based on physically attractiveness and performance of services rendered. Anything more than that is rare. It could generate unexpected and sometimes undesirable consequences.
can you tell what a provider is like on the inside by looking at her picture on an escort mall???..initially, the photo, or 'image' is what lures you in, not whats inside..you base your choice on what you're attracted to..you might see her again because you like the person on the inside, but initially its the photo, the 'look', is what excites you...
What makes you think I believe men only value me for what I look like? Where did this conclusion come from? Have we met? I really doubt my repeat gentleman come back to see me just to get another glance, I would hope its because I have something more/different to offer, and Im pretty sure it goes beyond what I look like...
women who are not my preferred type physically - but I thought their posts were interesting. I sure as hell do not browse through escort malls looking for attractive pictures.
You seem like someone for whom sex is all about physical attractiveness. Nothing wrong with that! Getting back to the original topic of racial bigotry, you've just about got me convinced that you are one of those rare people who values physical attractiveness so much, and who just happens to find black men physically unattractive, that you discriminate against black men NOT because you think they are somehow inferior to men of other races, but because they just don't appeal to you. More credibility for this comes from the fact that you require even white men to be "reasonably fit".
You've said that you are color blind in your day-to-day life. That's really the important thing. If that is so, then my apologies for misunderstanding you.
In my opinion all the catch phrases mean your ability to pay for the ladies time and that you have manners. Having said that. I am a black escort in Philadelphia. Now I see everyone pink, green etc. But I will say that if you call with street lingo, vulgar language, or are just generally speaking in bad taste I WILL NOT SEE YOU!! This is the reason I have an age cap. All of the bad phone calls I have recieved were from young men in their twenties. I have had calls from "some" black men that just did not know how to communicate properly. As one lady put it, as long as you pass my screening you are ok with me. But I conduct incalls in my home and don't care who you are if I GET A CREEPY VIBE I WILL NOT SEE YOU, PERIOD!! But as for not seeing someone specifically because they are black, no I do not agree. But we do have the right to make choose who we see. I am tall, full-figured and black. There are guys who do not like black women, big girls or tall girls and no one gets upset over that. So if some providers do not want to see black men, so be it. Just MHO
I just love to play the game. There was a past survey regarding what race you are.65 percent are white. So I guess the ladies are playin by the numbers.I don't care for it but I understand it.
It is unfortunate that even in this hobby that "some people" (SP and hobbyists) will behave in a similiar way like the civilian world. But that is their choice living in this country. It is also rather funny to hear people get hung up on the words used in some of the ads like VIP, generous, up-scale, intelligent, blah blah ,etc. Just ask yourself how many SPs who have rates say above 3$ and are willing to accept a gent who is only going to give them a gift of 1$? Not many. How many hobbyists would be interested in seeing a SP who had an ad saying the following, "looking for a good time with a tramp, high STD and HIV potential, willing to take all comers, wife beaters accepted, did not finish past the 3rd grade?" Sound appealing, huh?
Interesting topic? indeed.
Let's turn this 180 degrees. How many of us, men, prefer
the women of the different races.
Upscale = don't treat me like the local flea market (ie: don't haggle).
Some people just have preferences. Kinda like if you only like blondes or redheads.
Or perhaps they had a bad experience.
I personally have no problem w/any person, unless they are a j*rk. J*rks come in all colors. Oddly enough, every guy who has started off an e-mail with..... "I'm African American" (or whatever), has never followed through. How odd. Maybe something came up (I just cracked myself up!).
Who knows! Unfortunatly, we still haven't evolved enough to realize that everyone is human, & only the j*rks should be ostracized.
Lisa
The only color upscale refers to is green.
Other than the ability to pay, it usually refers to someone with some manners.
Some ladies may have prefrences as to the categories of men they will see but they are usually in the minority (no pun intended) and it usually means "will not see" not less services.
On the other side of this coin...I had a guy ask me if "I saw Ni__ers....In was shocked...!!! This was a white CPA from Atlanta.!!! So I would propose this question to all of you guys out there...Does it matter if a Provider does see people of color..? Would you refuse to see her if she said "Yes",?
Wouldn't bother me at all.
-Hoot.
I might not want to see someone who discussed details about guys she sees, but it would have nothing to do with the skin color of her clients.
In a perfect world this wouldn't be an issue. And personally, for me, the best part of hobbying is the ethnic variety it allows.
However, as a white middle aged guy who hears more rap than average middle class white guy, I am left wondering about the culture that rap/hip hop music seems to cultivate towards women. I know it's just slang, but constantly refering to women as ho's and bitches strikes me as a very negative and disrespectful. It does make me wonder if some men are growing up with a mentality that devalues women. If it is, and to the degree that music seems to appeal to a lot of young african americans, it would make sense to me that providers would want to steer clear of that population. Just wondering...
we were raised with. I have listened to contraversial music, but doesn't mean that I hold to values of the lyrics. Race has nothing to do with it either...you should listen to some hard core rock and those lyrics that is supposedly listened to by predominately white boys and those listening to it are upscale college boys.
Upscale in my book means the truest sense of the word gentleman. One who is clean and will treat me with respect and kindness. That usually comes through in communications prior to meeting. If you are turned down, race has nothing to do with it, values do and how it is that you approach a fellow human being.
Stereotyping is the worst offense. For it has been my experience that it just isn't true.
Lauren
There used to be a rather prolific and eloquent hobbyist on this board who used the handle "MyLifeAsMe". I think he discussed this situation in great detail and you might benefit by searching for his past messages. On a side note, he resigned from the board a month or so ago after becoming engaged.
-Hoot.