I have been seeing this one girl now for 2 1/2 years non stop every week end for all nighters every Friday,Saturday and Sunday and sometimes Monday when we have gone to Cuncun Mexico, Cali Colombia  Madrid Spain and other places we both like to travel. She is in collage and will finish this December and may go back home she is from Medlin Colombia. I know that I have fallen very much in love with her and life without her in it for me would be useless. I have told her servial times the way I feel about her and she told me that lets she what happens. So my question is should I force her to give me and answer or quit seeing her.I know in my heart she would make a great wife and she really is all I won't from life .I run my owen personal bodyguard service and Martial Arts Schools I have been married one time before and got took  to the cleaners by my ex wife so I am not jumping out of the frying pan back into the fire I really know this is the real thing. thanks in advance for any advice.

If she is still noncommital after 2.5 years and such royal travel and treatment, I'd say you made a mistake to fall for her.
You now have to save your own feelings and sanity from a serious risk of major depression. One good way to do that is to spend the next ten weekends with ten different beautiful, nice women, and see how you feel then, as in go  ahead and forget her. You've put too much time into the situation already by far.

South America has so many gorgeous babes. It's too bad you hooked up with one who is not clearly willing to reciprocate.

Let me try to translate

"Lets see what happens"

"I like your money, and don't want to piss you off because you arent that bad a guy and dont want to lose you as a customer, but I am not in love with you. Did I mention I like your money?".

You are her customer, not her boyfriend (unless I am mistaken and she no longer charges you) and it doesnt sound like she is looking for one. But what do I know. Pay no attention to me.

i also fell in love with a provider (still am and still see her). she's also in college and very young.

sometimes see her for no money (but always spoiling her with gifts, clothes, etc). this is new to both of us and am not sure if i am friend, boyfriend, client or some confusing mix of the three. we also get together as friends and no sex.

unfortunately, like you i have more feelings for her than she has for me. she's now trying to convert me back to 100% full paying client. john's advice is very accurate.

maybe you can persuade her to marry you if you continue to give her lots of spending money and she doesn't have to see any more clients.

she sounds hot. when can i see her and have sex with her? just kidding. had to make the comment so you could see how you reacted. remember she has sex with lots of other guys.

by the way, how can you afford to see her every week end for all nighters? does she give you an incredible discount?

For the last 8 Months she has not charged me anything.She moved in with me about a month ago and her family pays for her collage not me so this is why I am asking this question. thanks for your reply. I just do not won't to give up on her.

"lets see what happens"....translates to "I'll string you along for as long as I can".

"she's all I want in life"...come on man, get a grip--she does not feel the same.  You're setting yourself up for a big fall I'm afraid.

A few other things, in addition to what others have already posted:

1) If she continues to be in the business, and seeing others, that tells a lot about whether she is in love or not, assuming you have already offered her financial security to quit.

2) If she is not in love with you, then even if you get married, with or without pre-nup, life could be incredibly complicated for you

3) Also, please remember, women in that business do get emotionally hurt a lot, it may be difficult for her to confess to you if she loves you, even if she does.  She is and will remain confused within her own mind, whether it is the financial security, or true love that attracts her to you ...

If I read your posting right, you are so deeply in love, that no advice will have any bearing if it suggests to "disengage".  What you can and should do, is to "manage" the risk for now, till the truth or reality emerges ...

Look at it from your angle. You provide bodyguard services, right ? That's because a trained professional bodyguard is what certain circumstances require. You wouldn't want a pastry chef doing a bodyguard's job. You need a 5th dan black belt in relationship skills.
 You two need to find the best relationship counselor you can find. Preferably one with a Ph.D in clinical psychology. Be willing to invest as much energy in sorting out your motivations, the sources of your emotions, your respective family dynamics, what you are trying to communicate to one another, as you possibly can, before you get lost in the woods.
 Pros can be incredible GFs, but the always seem to have significant issues tucked away... a lot of these have to do with trust, intimacy, STRONG cycles of attatchment and withdrawal. Many have major "abandonment" problems in early childhood. Regardless of what they say, the great majority of them didn't come to this business out of financial considerations alone. It takes a distinct personality type to handle the rigors of the biz. Most have experiences they don't want to talk about, even when you get to know them well.
 She probably doesn't know herself all that well. One thing a good counselor can do is act as a clean mirror that will show her how she comes off to other people (such as you) without throwing too much at her at one time and scaring her off.
 The first one you see may not be the right one for you two, so don't feel that one experience with a psychologist is representative of all of them. There has to be a good feeling of rapport and trust for you to either break through to a meaningful relationship OR get clear that it isn't meant to happen.

If her parent’s pay for her school, and she now lives with you, WHY is she still escorting? Dude, please don't tell me she works out of your place?!?!? That would be too damn disrespectful for me.

I can somewhat relate to you. I had a situation with a provider, who I became close friends with, only paid for it 3 times before it was being given to me for free. But make no bones about it, she is a fabulous lady but I never thought that she was one to be my wife. She has left the biz about a year ago and we are still "friends with privileges", but she is not looking to get married and neither am I. Trust me, you feel flattered that you are getting it for free while guys are willing to empty their bank accounts for a few hours of her time. She caters to that aspect of your ego.

It seems like you wined and dined this lady, BUT she is still young. (I'm assuming since she hasn't even graduated college). I'm assuming you are older. Your expectations of life are not hers. If I was 20 and some person asked me to marry them, no matter how nice they were to me, it would freak me out. To a 20 something year old, marriage is like prison.

Also look at it from her viewpoint. She is young and having a great time, why give that up? This life style offers a lot of opportunities that she may not have if she were to get married, settle down, have 2.3 kids etc.

My advice would be to enjoy the ride while it last and know when to get off when the music stops.

Oh one more thing that may be a contradiction. In the original post you talk about having weekend overnight sessions every week for a period of time, yet in your clarification post you indicate that she lives with you now and you are not paying for it? Worst-case scenario is she is living with you AND you are still paying for it or only get her on the weekend? WTF is that? I'm assuming the weekend overnight deal happened before you moved her in. If the idea was yours for her to move in with you, then you are probably getting played. Like you indicated, she gets money from her parents for school, gets a place to stay for free and trips from you for free, and gets paid for a few hours of her time from strangers. Do you see a pattern here? She is use to getting what she wants. I don't see her giving up anything for you. Like I said before, enjoy the ride while it last but know when to get off for I don't think you have much future here and to be honest, I don't think you want it with her if you look at it objectively.


-- Modified on 11/26/2002 6:23:43 AM

Divorced In L.A. Thanks for your reply you sound like me. The way I affored her when we first meet, I am A profesional Bodyguard and I owen A Chain of Kickboxing Schools across the Southeast if I give the name of the Schools many people would know who I am. I also was in the U.S. Army Special Froces and was own operations in South America. So I make alot of money doing Executive and Celebrity bodyguard work. I have not paid her anything the last 8 months but like you spoiling her with trips, gifts, clothes and etc.  How are you handling still seeing  your girl? Thats why I am asking some advace on weather or not for her togive me a yes or no answer where I can go with my life . But I do not won't to give up if theres a chance for both of us. thanks

Enjoy it while it lasts.  If you think marriage "settles" everything and means you have her for good, forget that.  If you think you need her more than life itself, that's called being in love, and you have the worst kind... obsessive.  Take stock of what you have, what makes life good, and let go of hoping for "the solution" to come in the form of marriage.  My guess is that your chances are less than 50% that you would still be married in 10 years.  By then you will have kids whose hearts can break if you have split up.  Like I said.. you have a tiger by the tail....

Da Game Let me try and clear up a few more things and thanks for your reply. I really need advice on this matter. First she has not seen anyone as a proivder after the first six months after we meet. I at that point have been takeing care of her completely less her school, She is 29 years old but looks like a teenager I have found this to be true with most South American women. I really feel she is a good person. Women from South America like older men. I have just turned 40 this year I work out 6 hours a day for my job, people are funny if you don't look like Bruce Lee they won't take Martial Arts Classes from you or would not hire you as a personal Bodyguard. I have been divorced 3.5 years so no I do not won't to loose everything again in a divorce. All I need is weather or not to force a answer of yes or no. again thanks for your reply and no It would make me sick if she was doing services in my house I would give the gent a free Kichboxing leson at no charge LOL.

Let me put it this way, from my point of view as an SP, the relationship I have with my clients is a very honest one - they know exactly what they're getting and so do I, and what either of us does when we're not togther is immaterial.  If we can ignite some chemistry, and perhaps have some interests in common to talk about, then that's so much the better. I made the mistake on a couple of occasions of seeing someone as a "friend", (i.e. without the meter running,) and it invariably causes problems - all of a sudden, the rules are different, false assumptions are made, et cetera.  If you're still a paying client after all this, it sounds to me like she wants the deal to stay the way it is.  If I can offer a bit of insight, I can't really speak for anyone else, but the SP/client relationship feels like an equal one, it feels like I'm in control of my relationsips with men - maybe a completely false feeling, but you can't argue with emotional logic!

Anyway, if she's that young, I hate to say it but maybe she just doesn't know how to tell you that there's no "future" to hope for.

-Anya

Come on, you're not going to listen to a damn thing we have to say on this issue.  You've fallen for her and simply need to play out the hand.  I say, enjoy every moment with her.  Fuck your brains out and don't add her to your checking account just yet.

The only way this relationship is going to work is if she gets that same sick feeling over the thought of this movie ending as you're feeling now.

Live for today - make every minute count, tomorrow will come soon enough.

Fitguy

You mention she may return to Medellin, Columbia upon completion of college.  Is she in the U.S. legally on only a student visa?  

And Medellin, unless we've won the war on drugs, is in the heart of an area controlled by one of the major drug cartels.  I can't imagine why anyone would want to leave the U.S. to go back there.  Not even thinking of the drugs, my impression is that all things being equal, the great majority of people would rather stay in this country.  I'm sure she must have reasons, but you've not said what they are, assuming you know..that could have a bearing on some future responses from the board.

You are now painting a very different picture than you were before.

I'll take what you said at face value.

The closest you can get is to sit down and talk to her about your relationship. Tell her that you want to know where things will be going in the future and that you have every right to know what she is thinking. If she is not interested in marriage with you, then she should tell you.

You could stop supporting her if she doesnt say she is interested in marriage, but that wouldnt tell you if she was telling the truth or not. She may be using you.

I have my own reservations about all this just because if you are (I think you said) several years into the relationship and still don't know what she is thinking or where you really stand, I think it is because she doesnt want you to know, because she knows the gravy train will end at that point. I am in no position to know if she is trustworthy or not, but you do have a right to know where you stand. The main question is, can you trust her. She has a vested interest in continuing things just the way they are.

Unless you are ready for conflict and a conclusion to your relationship, be it positive or negative, don't give her an ultimatum yet.  I think you should go with the flow until it is time to make a final decision.  You still have another month with her before she has to make a decision, so why not enjoy it until its conclusion or the new beginning?  

From the way you are reacting, I don't think you are ready for her answer if it is in the negative.  Prepare yourself for whatever answer she may give you.  If it isn't meant to be, don't force it but cherish the moments you two shared.  She can't be the woman for you if she decided not to stay.  Let her go and set you both free.  You are a martial artist, you know how to handle situations like this.  But instead of just deflecting the conflict, harmonize with it and accept the way.  Best of luck to you gungfu!

From everything you've said, I don't know that she's necessarily a user. Also, sounds to me like you're benefiting from the relationship as much as her. As Greywolf noted above, it appears that she may not have US citizenship, in which case, if she were a user, she'd marry your ass in heartbeat!

As far as her living with you, I hardly see that as putting you out. By that I mean, if you were wanting to meet and bang other women, then you're out, but that's not where you're coming from. Are you being used for free rent? Probably not! Making rent for her is most likely 3-4 appointments per month.

My guess is that (and it is a guess) she at least likes you and is attracted to you or wouldn't be living you. The fact that she's non-committal in terms of a future could mean anything:

1. She honestly doesn't know if she wants to spend the rest of her life with you and is being sincere about it.

2. You're insecurity is confusing the shit out of her and she wants to give the situation more time to see if you can be straightened out.

3. There are hundreds potential of negative reasons why she is non-committal, but don't waste your time speculating on them. You'll probably be wrong anyway.

My advice: Focus more on what originally attracted you to her instead of trying to secure a future. Don't pin her down with questions about the commitment, just enjoy her now. Reduce some of your emotional dependency on her by doing more things with your buddies. She'll like that; it’ll give her more space.

Good luck!








-- Modified on 11/27/2002 5:23:17 PM

Thanks greywolf for your reply: Yes she is here on a student visa only and is good to 1 June 03.Her family runs a coffee farm in Medellin Colombia (no not Cocane) her family wants her to work for them. She is studing Computer Programing at Georgia Tech. And no she said she would rather stay here in the good old U.S.A. I have worked on special joint operations in Colombia when I was in the army with the D.E.A. and C.I.A. both. My MOS in Special Forces was Counter Terrorist Expert Light Weapons. So this how I got into personal protection work. I had her family checked out through one of my army friends who now works for our great goverment  can't say what office. I also started to tell her if she married an American Citizen she could get her green card but I declined. But no I do not want to see her go back to Colombia, she is a gem but some of the replys made have made me stop and think and this was what I was looking for, you never know untill you talk to someone else and I really do thank everyone for their replys on this.

The additional info in your follow up posts helps us give better advice especially important facts like not paying for eight months, moved in together a month ago, and she is "retired".

I will try to be a little more positive and encouraging with my comments. If she is "retired" and you are living together than you have already "converted" her so to speak. If you have only lived together for ONE month why give her an ultimatum with marriage? In fact why get married at all? Or is it so she can get her US Citizenship? Remember even if you get married she can leave you as easily as she can now. We all have our own beliefs but after being divorced I probably won't get married again unless I have children with her but will gladly live with someone who I really care about.

Yes, we are similar. I got a divorce nearly three years ago too, am in late 30's and she's in her 20's. Providers and clients do ocassionally get married. Her friend got married a couple of months ago to a client. He's around 40 and she is mid to late 20's. Who knows if it will be successful but it does happen.

The cost of gift giving is just a normal relationship. I find providers to be much less expensive than wives or dating especially in LA. I finally decided to try out hobbying after spending so much dating and many times no sex.

I recommend you check out the LA Board for some posts on this topic, just do a search for key words.

So in summary, you have accomplished converting her from provider to traditional girlfriend who is willing to live with you. From my reading on the Boards I think a lot of clients wish they could do this. Don't pressure her you will just scare her away. But hopefully she appreciates what you are giving her and doesn't take it or you for granted. You can most likely persuade her to stay in the US (or she probably wouldn't have bothered to move in with you just one month ago). The big question is just how much does she love and care about you. Maybe "time will tell".

Hope my comments help. Good Luck and remember to have fun with her!!

Well, I'm not a lady, but if you've been this closely involved with her for 2.5 years and she's still giving you the "let's see what happens" line, nothing's gonna happen, except more of the same, until one day she's gone.  Doesn't matter if she's a provider, ex-provider or a "civilian."  I doubt you'll be able to pin her down or get a straight answer out of her, no matter how hard you try.  And that fact is actually your answer, if you really look at it.

-- Modified on 11/26/2002 10:18:24 PM

I met an ASP and it happend to me, I fell in love and she stated the same. We both said it was love at first sight. She stated she wanted to start a normal life, settle down and have kids. I couldn't deal with the fact that she was still continuing to perform body rubs. At that time we talked about it and she agreed that she too was tired of the business and that she would stop. To make a long story short, she could stop! I agreed to financially support her by housing her and paying for everything while she continued her education and she agreed. It should also be known, that I accomadated her by changing my ways and trying to overcome problems she saw in me.
 Well, put it this way, she moved out quicker then I moved her in. I came home approximately 17 hrs after she had moved in, she said she was leaving. It wasn't the fact of giving her space because I had backed off and given her plenty of it. She stated she was having anxiety attacks and was uncomfortable being around me after she stated all the above. In my opinion, ASP's will never be able to stop what they are doing. They do this because they enjoy the excitement of it all. Again in my opinion, there is something that has occurred in their past where this becomes a compulsion for them. A question I have though. What happens when they reach a age where men are not interested in them because of the fact they can seek younger, more attractive ASP's. What will these women have to fall back on? These statements again are just my opinion.

Excellent points, each & every one of them.

I just dont buy the story.

Reamn, slick...you make a lotta sense!!

Wolf, you and I seem to think alike

Most of you guys have given me a lot things to think about on how to handdle this affiar. Some have said I should just let it ride its course out and I have thought about doing it this way for the last two years. But as John said and he made me stop and think I agree with him that I do have a right to know where I stand and should know her thought where she wants this to go. And I also feel if I push her she might leave . I do really love this lady and I don't think I could handle her leaving at this point. Its kind of funny because am a solider I have handdled combat I could take out a person in a fight in lees than 2 seconds jump out of a airplane but don't know how to handdle a simple thing with a women. Maybe I should just give up on her and let it go I have thought about doing this serval times then when I see her I melt right back down and never say what I really feel. I really do thank you guys for your replys on this.  As I said early it helps with other peoples view on things for they have a outside look where I am looking at a onesided view thanks again for all youe replys gungfu.

Hi Gungfu,
We've never talked or anything before but, just so you know, I am probably considered one of the more "politically INcorrect" members here at the ol'TER. And, I just have one question; Have you been paying this girlie-girl her regular "fee for service" all along? If you answer "yes", then it looks like you're gonna get kicked-to-the-curb. She is almost done with school and her agenda is about finalized. If you answer "no", then you better get a third job. Because, you're gonna need the extra money to help pay for her accustomed lifestyle.
It looks like we may have a classic case of reverse "pretty woman" syndrome going on here. Don't feel bad, I admit it too. I got sucked into the vortex of the unrealistic and irrational fantasy world regarding a client. So, I learned the hard way something I knew was a major rule breaker. Ah', who cares...the person still enriched my life for the short time I was in "love". But, honestly one of the first things I did when I realized I had feelings for him was refuse to accept his $$$. (but, NEVER his gifts Dah-ling..*wink*)
Good Luck!
Carol

Hey Carol{ Thanks very much for giving me a womens point of view. You sound like a great lady to talk. Hey if this does not work out can I give you a call LOL. I am based in Georgia but not from here. You may get a good laugh from this but I am from the state of Bill Clition (Arkansas) and no no I am not kind to cuss Bill LOL .No I have never paid her regular rate except our first time and then after that she and I really hit it off togeather. I loved going shopping, travel going to movies, dinners out I also have been teaching sky diving, she takes Gung Fu classes from me (Kung Fu in N. China Gung Fu S. China)so yes she is very special and I also like Latina women. but I am going to ask her one more time to give me an answer one way or the other. Because a lot of good people on this board opened my eyes on a lot of points and again thanks.Yours in Gung Fu

Be very very cautious, as you can take the professional provider out of the business, but you can't take the professional provider out of the girl. Trust that! Didn't mention last two stages are: back to heart breaker/nightmare, and now just dating as old lovers would do. Heart still hurts... :{ Good luck. I hope it works for you better than it did for me.

-- Modified on 12/2/2002 2:50:25 AM