Hey all

New to the whole scene- was introduced by a friend who became a very popular, successful provider recently.  Now, she's a sweet, sexy lady, and we've been friends for over 7 years now...  We've never done anything erotic, (well, maybe once or twice years ago...), but we are very good non-romantic friends.  I made the mistake of reading her reviews- porn star sex and all that.  And, it got me thinking- she's very open about her sexuality, thinks sex is great, and trusts me a great deal.  However, I wondered if I could get a massage, and JUST A MASSAGE- no wink wink nudge nudge- for the birthday, because I don't get massages often, and just thought it'd be nice- she got angry, telling me how we'd never have sex.  I pointed out I meant rub the muscles, no Jr., and she got the idea, but the whole vehemence of the way she said it got me thinking...  I asked her a few nights ago, what made it so bad- I am jealous of the clients, you have this great sex, and I'm so special and so close, and you think sex is great and go for it, but put sex and me together, and its bad?  She said the whole "it'd be awkward" thing, and while I can somewhat understand, I never asked for sex, but the whole way she said it and how it's apparently okay for everyone else just puts a splinter in my head.  

So, providers, do you have any friends who knew you provided, and how you explained to them why work is work, even when it is fun work, but not them, and how they maybe worked through it?  I certainly didn't open up the wallet or the jeans, but how the great and wonderful fun of sex goes horrible with (as she has said) only person I trust so much and the best...  

(And "get over it"- seriously, need advice, not lockerroom posturing)

I am about to end a roommate relationship w/ someone but he likes to open my bedroom door and stare at me while I get dressed. He says its not big deal b/c I expose myself all the time to other men and we used to date but sometimes you want want the privacy you had when you were a small child and it makes me mad fast that someone assumes that b/c I am proud of my body ---they can see it when they want to

museaums have to close at times too

it seems like your jealous that she won't give you any.

Quite honestly, if I were your friend and I trusted you with the information of being a provider, then I'd probably also feel offendend that you didn't get the point that just because I was a provider doesn't mean I'm a nymphomaniac and want to screw a good friend. I think you're not giving her enough credit and you shouldn't take it personally. Read a few posts back about what Danielle wrote. Just because she told her date she was a provider, he felt he could be insulting and rude to her. I'm not saying that you're rude, but put yourself in her place. Why would she want to ruin a good friendship? Perhaps she's just not comfortable with being intimate with a good friend. I agree: That would be weird.

Hugs,
ciara

why would you not just go to a legit massage only place if you truly wanted just a massage?  I get a strong sense that you have a fantasy that a massage from your friend would eventually lead to a sexual relationship, one not just in the bounds of a professional relationship. Sorry if I am prejudging you and I may be projecting my own feelings upon you (been there, done that) but there is something of that coming through your message.

Generally I prefer to start all my relationships with women by being intimate. Providers, doctors, accountants, mechanics, barmaids, check-out girls, waitresses, whatever. If you sleep with them up front it satisfies your curiosity and eliminates all that often-annoying build-up of sexual tension that's going to occur sooner or later (if you're not gay).

That said... Ciara, you and I have read each other's posts at least three times. What is that if not the beginning of a relationship? So, what do you say? I, for one, think our friendship can survive being intimate. In fact, I think it will be come even better.

-- Modified on 3/29/2006 6:17:33 AM

Ciara, I do tend to ramble, and it was late when I wrote it, so I might have fubared...  

Maybe she is just worried about ruining the friendship- personally, I think the friendship is stronger, but if only one side thinks so...  With the nympho-thing, no, never said that, or anything similar- it was just the way there was a misinterpretation of the massage (meaning massage not providing), and how hotly she objected to the misunderstood way.  (It wasn't, "no, that'd be wierd with you", it was "NO NO NEVER DO THAT WITH YOU")  She didn't try to explain it- was would just be soooo horrible.  Sounded like she thought there was something wrong with me, you know?  If she had said "I'm worried it'd hurt our friendship" or "it'd be wierd to see you everyday and think about doing *blank* with you" or even "I only see clients for that- you I see all the time for everything else", something- maybe its because I'm a little jealous of her success, or that the clients get to do things I'm not allowed- probably a bit of both.  (Yes, not great to be jealous of either- however, if I'm honest with myself...  and apparently the messageboard- not proud of it)  I am trying to get over the green monster, (and yes, myself), but not exactly flipping a switch.


But, she loves her job, and she's living it up, so I'll continue to help her out anyway I can and keep being her best "just a" friend, as always.


With regards to Danielle, you know, I was frankly waiting for her to get the pepper spray- because yeah, he deserved it.  You have no evidence that I wasn't like that, but seriously, NOTHING like that.  (Again, I never asked for sex with my friend, only why the idea of two separate goods would be so bad together)

I agree. It also underscores what my female friends tell me; how rare it is to have a close male friend who is not gay.

Yikes, he should respect your privacy. To get some privacy try spraying some Mace in his eyes. It will usually give you 15 minutes or so of time to get dressed. He probably won't come near you for a while either which might accelerate the moving out process.

Think about it. Up until you started thinking about this, you were perfectly happy with your relationship. Now that you are "jealous" it becomes a problem? Is that her fault?

You have some serious thinking to do. What is it that you want? To win or relate? to be friends or to fuck? I don't know this for a fact, but you now have a friend who is thinking and possibly questioning your sincerity right now.

Even if it weren’t true, I would guess she has to deal with quite a bit of insincerity and is a little sensitive.

Remember true love is total acceptance. If you love her (in any way) you must accept her. Be great for her and be her friend.

The moment you give it all up, you get everything!

Wow, this post makes me shake my head.  I have had several men who I got to know as friends, and they knew about my escorting activities... and it never ceased to amaze me that they would be somewhat urked that I wouldn't see them as a client.. or even consider having a sexual relationship with them on that level.  I would always have to set my   boundaries with them up front.  I considered them friends and if they crossed the line or violated trust with me then the friendship in that capacity ended.  Period.  It is unfortunate that men don't see friendship with a woman in the same way as a woman does.  I can relate to being "oogled" all the time, and it gets damn frustrating.  I get pissed at my SO sometimes too.  Gotta lock that bedroom door sometimes just to have some privacy.  Grrrr!  A woman has to have her alone time, and has to feel that she has her privacy.  There is a big difference between your loved one/SO looking at you with love and adoration and looking at you like a damned peice of meat all the time.  If I want that I'll just go back to the strip bars!  Criminey!



-- Modified on 3/29/2006 6:57:25 AM

You were right on in your observations. Very articulate and thoughtful reply.

Thank you,
Anneke

Well, maybe start with a spray bottle of water, like you would a naughty puppy, and move up the painful sprays...  But I agree, that's not right- privacy respect is a must, in any situation;  Practiced and preached.

and I think that KatWalker just gave me one reason...  Very interesting perspective.

But to the point, take the provider out of the equation.  Would SteelFox still wish to have a more intimate relation (and I agree that even though SteelFox states no sex, a massage could open doors...) if she were not a provider?

I will admit, I am attracted to women in both this profession and the stripper profession.  Why?  I do not know, maybe forbidden fruit, maybe I think that they are more honest... but it is curious that SteelFox did not have this wish UNTIL he knew about her profession.  

Sex can kill friendships quicker than anything else on the planet.  Which is why I am coming to understand how the quality providers do it...  A dude comes to them horny.  The provider may or may not be horny, for an hour or two they play with each others body... and he leaves. She knows that he is leaving - there is NO question about that.  He is also leaving a present - there is no question about that. Both parties get their expectations met.  Throw in a preexisting friendship with its boundaries and This profession changes those boundaries with some degree of uncertainty.  I think that SteelFox's friend's response may have more to keeping her life in order than a rejection of him.  but what do I know....   I am divorced....  and view this hobby as exactly that (see post above).

-- Modified on 3/29/2006 8:00:42 AM

Sounds like she is trying to maintain some level of esteem in your friendship. Imagine how you would feel if you were to witness your sister or your mother having sex, & they were really enjoying it.  Wouldnt that make you look at them in a different light? Take her refusing a meeting with you as a compliment of how much she really values your relationship and not personally.

Besides if you had a male buddy that you developed a really good friendship with your mind would never wonder.   Not all things are meant for sharing with a friend.

-- Modified on 3/29/2006 8:12:49 AM

I can't do that but I yell at him like my cats...treat him like a stray that hasn't been trained....clap my hands and yell "no" & "get out" and don't speak to him for some time

I have to keep him around for awhile longer as I threw my brother out for stealing from me and moved him in 3 wks ago so I have to put up with him for awhile. He doesn't steal or damage stuff so I am thinking he is just really lonely and wants a female.

His new girlfriend offered to give him a BJ put when he got ready, she puked all over his friend from the alcohol or whatever she had in her. He stays extremely clean. He was heartbroken. His new girl isn't GFE

Man, I'd say just let it go.  If you need a massage (or sex even), there is no shortage of providers of all types out there for that.  Maybe you can seek out another provider that resembles your 'friend', if that's what you want.    But stay cool with her.

This is just too funny!  But you do make him sound like a new pet.... thinking of that maybe you could have him neutered.... or did he already spray the area... !  lol.  

some men misinterpret sex and friendship, but you're right her response to you could have been nicer. Peace, hon!

Hugs,
Ciara

So many good things have already been written, but here is another POV.  I keep reading about how the experience of this hobby is not reflective of the real world.  I also read from some of the providers about how lonely it can get.
 So when a lady like your friend gets to have a friend who sees her as a person, not an object, lets her be herself, accepts her, isn't judgemental she has something very precious.  Because of testosterone toxicity most guys are trying to get laid, it is wired into us.  Women learn the ways of men and realize that for 99.xx% of guys asking for a massage is part of men's attempting to manipulate a situation into getting laid.  When you ask your friend for a massage you move yourself from that pile of precious (to her) people called trustworthy and rare friends to the big pile of guys wanting to get laid.  You ask her to give up a tremendous amount without even considering what the cost is to her.  Friends don't do that.  She feels betrayed.
 Now you don't have her body, her massage or her as a friend.  That probably pisses you off and seems very unfair of her.
 If you value the friendship and are willing to continue it as before then I would make an amends to her damn fast.  I would probably send a couple dozen roses and a "I fooked up" card (not deliver them myself) and ask her if she knows any floggers.
 Finally, all of the massages I have had from providers (which admittedly are not a lot) are erotic massages.  Rub lotion on the body and it feels good.  After a while it feels *really* good.  If you want a nonerotic massage then find people who specialize in that.
 Good luck in getting past this.
B

Maybe you are the brother she never had? Maybe she was worried you are to hot for her to handle? Maybe, maybe, maybe. like really? lol

We are all meaning making machines. there is what happened and what we make it mean. rarely do they have anything to do with eachother. Our stories are usually based on someother story we made up along time ago.

If you love her as a friend, then make it mean that it was something great and then you can continue to be great in her life. If you are something else... you can make it mean something ugly, like she thinks you're (fill in the blank) With that senerio you get to make her wrong and lose out.

What would rather be a life giver or a life taker?

From what I read, I would bet you are a life giver!

-- Modified on 3/29/2006 12:27:34 PM

"There is a big difference between your loved one/SO looking at you with love and adoration and looking at you like a damned peice of meat all the time."

So after 18 years her being tired of being looked at like a piece meat, I started looking at other women like pieces of meat. She didn't like that either. There's just no pleasing some people.

You sound like a gambling man who wants to risk a lot with very little to gain.  Actually I am not sure your lady friend was wise in introducing you to this scene.   Somebody else has already said that sex screws up a lot of good relationships.  It sounds like you have a close friendship with this lady although you would know that better than us.    

The word friend is used around this business and other business for that matter a lot.  Most often it means business associate or acquaintance not close friend.   So you want to trade being a close civilian friend in order to be a client???  

There is a lot more that could be said on this subject but do yourself a favor and try to keep your current friend as a friend and if you want visit other providers for your sex.  

category and to have sex with one's family is incess.  Maybe it grosses her out like that.  I can relate with that because I had a friend like you.  If she did give in (only once)- would it be worth jeapordizing your friendship? That friend I slept with is a friend no more.

My statement is one that was made to reflect my irritations about not having my personal privacy with my SO and that has been worked out between us.    Most women need some privacy in their personal life and there needs to be a healthy balance between loving touch vs groping and appropriate times for enjoying each other and viewing each others bodies.    In a relationship you just have work out the quirks and know when those times are and what works out for the two of you.  It all comes down to respecting one another. Maybe you and Ms. Luethor need some sit down time to discuss these things???  Just a question.

-- Modified on 3/30/2006 6:42:47 AM

...she always says the same thing...

"Lex, why do always start these discussions when I'm sitting on the toilet. Would you please get out and give me 5 minutes of privacy?!"

ABSOLUTELY no provacy!  and no time...

Me, I found in marriage my "quiet time" was mowing the lawn with my MP3 player full blast...   what a wonderful way to fully appreciate Mahler!!  (or for that matter the soundtrack from "Superman"!

GAWD... this reminds me of Bill Engvalls stand comedy act where he talks about why his wife can't seem to shut the bathroom door when she goes to the toilet.  He says you always know what a guy is doing, when he stands up he is peeing, when he sits down, he is taking a dump and you know to stay out.  But with a woman, you never know what she is doing when she is sitting on a toilet.  And invariably he has walked into the bathroom on his wife and run into the invisible wall of "stink"...and said "GAWD, honey, can't you at least warn a guy fist, or at least shut the damn door or something"!  LOL

That is a hard one!! She might feel that you are firmly in the friends catagory and that a massage will change the relationship. Leaving you wanting more type of a thing. I would leave it alone if I were you since she is the one who acted so rashly about it. Let her suggest something special for a birthday present.
I do have some friends that have suggested the birthday special but I felt I had to say no. They know the limits of our friendship and they should know that they belong in a seperate catagory. It is awkward when even suggested.

Well, don't think this will go to the bottom of the pile, (just under this one- given the BBs format), but we've more of less moved on- I think we resolved the miscommunication and the reasonings...  And, like I said, we do have a special friendship for the better part of a decade, and she is a helluva lady, (nope, not saying who- you'll have to luck into her yourself...  ...  okay, that came out wrong :p )- we had a nice dinner last night, (only interrupted by two client calls).  Don't think floggers will be necessary- likewise, she'd probably yell at me for buying, (read, spending my currently limited resources), her a dozen roses, because I'm still getting established in the new locale, whereas she's got enough money that she'd be able to get them if she wanted- though she'd probably send me to the store to get them for her...

Thanks all

Time, thinking, and the various POVs helped.

Glad things have re-equilibrated.  You dodged a bullet.  
If she has the money part of life reasonably handled then she may have to worry about guys wanting to get in her pants and/or take her money.  Makes you as a friend even more valuable.
  On the other side.  I have a lady friend who is quite attractive and I have a similar role with her although there are times when I would sure like for it to be different but also appreciate the friendship.  What I notice is that she *never* sets me up with anyone.  Don't know if that is relevent in your case, but ladies don't like to risk losing their cherished friends to a relationship.
 Glad it is better.  Take care, happy hunting.
B

I feel the same way, I do enjoy what I do-however, there are varying degrees of relationships, and in my case with good friends, it doesn't mix...it's like that old saying never to mix money with friendships, because things can go sour (poorly rephrased, I know). And by crossing that line, it puts the friendship at a different perspective and you may loose the good relationship you two have now...I wouldn't be offended at all by her actions. It certainly not personal, she really does care for you as a true friend.

-- Modified on 3/30/2006 11:33:02 PM

Well, not she's saying I should look through TER, find a great lady, and she'll pay...  WTHK?