I caught an episode of The West Wing the other night. Part of the storyline had to do with some United Nations declaration that included the condemnation of "forced prostitution." The head of the League of Women Voters was lobbying to have the word "forced" removed so that the declaration would condemn all prostitution worldwide. She asserted that ALL prostitution was forced prostitution and that prostitution is bad for women so it falls outside of women’s rights. She said that women are forced into prostitution by the allure of money.

This program brings up three issues for me:

1) Is all prostitution forced prostitution?

2) Why isn't prostitution championed by women’s organizations along with other women’s rights to choose?

3) Why are escorts always portrayed in movies, television and the media as depraved, helpless, drug addicted or otherwise derelict, deranged or disabled?

Might want to check out 'pretty woman' one more time

hypocrites tolerated and hid child molestation, but God forbid a woman should make a living doing something she enjoys with another consenting adult.

Riker,

You bring about some interesting topics for discussion.  

It seems that many of the campaigns in the political arena are fueled by self-interest, or motivation for being elected/re-elected to office.

Prostitution is one of the OLDEST professions known to humankind.  It goes all the way to the Roman Empire, and beyond.  I hate saying this, since I am advocate for equal rights regardless of someone's gender or ethnicity, that the women's liberation movement has gone too far.  Some women want to eat their cake and have it too.

1.  Is all prostitution forced prostitution?

For starters, lets define forced prostitution.  Forced prostitution is prostitution against one's will.   This is more prevalent in the 3rd world countries.  Poverty, and  illiteracy are the two main catalysts.  

In Westernized/Modernized society, prostitution is NOT forced.  One enters into this vocation by choice.  People who engage in this trait are fully cognizant of their civil/legal rights.  IF they chose to be exploited, they do so willingly.  

In the US, most women who enter into prostitution do so because either they want to exploit their physical attributes to make a substantial income in a short time, or they just ran into a financial problem -- and this is a temporary means to an end.

The financial windfall in this work is serious - especially, since most of the transactions are done in cash.  No taxes to pay .  For instance, a stripper at Mitchell Brother's O'Farrel Theater clears over $ 1,500 on average on any given night.  This is for approximately 6 hours of work ...

We can discuss this for hours. But, I am sure you get the picture.   Passing laws, and enforcing laws on morality and ethics is MOSTLY politically motivated.



2) Why isn't prostitution championed by women’s organizations along with other women’s rights to choose?

Well!  Some women are of the opinion that it is demeaning.  They firmly believe that by encouraging such activities they are supporting the notion of disrespecting womankind, and their rights.   Others feel it is exploitative.


3) Why are escorts always portrayed in movies, television and the media as depraved, helpless, drug addicted or otherwise derelict, deranged or disabled?

By doing so, they can push their political agenda to the forefront -- women are forced, exploited, abused, etc... into this lifestyle.

Take Heidi Fleiss and her entourage -- do you think her friends who entertained top celebrities were force or abused?  Think again.  These girls enjoyed what they did, got paid serious $$$$, and had the opportunity of a lifetime to hangout with some very powerful corporate executives, and Hollywood stars.  These connections helped them lauch their careers in more ways than one.  

You never hear of some beautiful women working at a "Big 5" or a Fortune 500 company who makes her way all the way to the top by bonking someone. The only asset she used was purely physical.  However, once that upward mobility stops, out come the women libbers in full force crying bloody murder!

Frankly, I think if they legalized prostitution it would safe the tax payers some serious dollars.  By legalizing ...

1.  The LE troops can now focus their attention on more serious issues

2.  A new tax base can be created -- this would help generate lot of income for the government

3.  Control spread of STD as providers would need a licence/clean bill of health, peace of mind for all providers

4.  Stop "Rip-off".  Fixed menu pricing ...

5.  Reduce sexually related crimes (rapes, etc.)


What really bothers me is that lately there is so much activity all over the US in cracking down on prostitution RATHER than corporate criminals.  Take for instance the ENRON scadal.  The Andersen partner, Duncan, get immunity -- for what?  There was plenty of evidence that the Feds had to put him, and all the ENRON executives away.  These folks did a lot of damage to the economy, and single-handedly wiped-off life savings of several 000's of families.  

Well!  I am sure I have fueled some food for thought...

- Mi6


-- Modified on 6/8/2002 9:59:18 AM

And although Julia Roberts was quite charming, her cousin in the business was screwed up. And in the end, the story was about a girl who had to be rescued from her life.
The story tries to portray two terrible people who are rescued from themselves by falling in love with each other.
The film doesn't do a good job of establishing that Robert's and Gere's characters are bad people, because the movie makers need you to like them and care about what happens to them. Nevertheless, it is the story of redemption for the prostitute and corporate pirate. The prostitute is redeemed only by giving up prostitution.

> In Westernized/Modernized society, prostitution is NOT forced.

While this may be true for the aspect of it we deal with most prevalently on these boards (escorts advertising on the internet), that is far from true in general.

It's hardly a secret that many women in Russian agencies came here on the expectation of doing something else, and are forced into doing what they do by threat of violence and/or reporting of their illegal status to the authorities.  There have also been numerous busts of Asian gangs who have effectively enslaved women, brought them to this country and forced them to work, mostly in brothels frequented by other Asians.

Beyond that, there is are thousands of girls, mostly young, frequently underage, usually completely uneducated, who work for vicious pimps, usually under threat of violence.  Often they are moved around by their pimps in a "circuit" from one city to the next, staying only long enough to get busted, them moving on.

There's a good organization in LA that tries to work with these girls, who are hardly there of their free will.  http://www.childrenofthenight.org

Purv

-- Modified on 6/8/2002 12:00:01 PM

A college education all the way through Masters, PhD, or a professional degree - MD or JD - is enormously expensive in the US today, sometimes over seven years in the total $500,000 range.
Our wonderful country does not believe in helping the poor and middle class kids rise to the maximum of their abilities.
We spend our billions on corporate and defense contractor welfare instead, to teach "responsibility."
Only rich kids have it easy financially throughout their university careers. They get into Yale because daddy was there even if they cannot pronunciate any word longerized than 7 letters or more than 2 syllablizations.
Thousands of US college girls do escort and massage work to get through college and'or support little kids they had because of ignorance about contraception or the stretch marks they did not foresee. Not many are really enthused about whacking off guys or more to pay for tuition, books, and living. Even calculus must be more enjoyable than whacking off some semi-drunk stranger with a mini-dick and bad breath.
The Congress and the Presidency from Nixon to Reagan to Bush are the source of this fiscal policy that leads so many college girls into sex work when they would prefer to be full time students. I usually avoid the Asian spas because the enforced prostitution is so transparent. Those Korean girls often speak no English and are locked up in the spas for months at a time, never to venture out unaccompanied.
And I am nice to college girls because that is all I can really do for them, be nice and donate for tuition, and give them marathon daty to relieve the stress, occasionally treat them to dinner, Vic Secret stuff, flowers, but most importantly try to be a friend and treat every lady as a dignified equal citizen, and give more daty. LOL
The Daty Saint

-- Modified on 6/8/2002 1:38:35 PM

I echo some of the sentiments posted.  

However, the economic conditions are the same for all college students.  The economic challenges are equally applicable to men just as they are applicable to women.

But you don't see college men going out and becoming a gigalo.  Yeah!  Granted, there may not be a huge demand ...

The key issue is making good decisions. In the US, there is opportunity for all.  Yes, the road may be hard and tough to travel on -- but if you want to live your life on a straight and narrow path ... you certainly can.

Women use this as an excuse -- I have financial woes, so I am in this business.  Sweetie, under the present economic conditions most of us are in the same boat.  

Some women want an easy way out -- and that's the ONLY reason why some of them are in this business.  They have packed schedules (10 back to back appoints a day).  That is serious $$$ and all in cash.  In other words, NO taxes paid ;-(.

Certainly true of some women.  Also certainly not true of many of the girls on the street, or in the Asian massage parlors, or at many of the Russian agencies.  There are nasty and vindictive people taking advantage of lots of women, and many of them don't have (or at least don't know they have) any real alternative.  But that's not the case with college students.

MisterG

$500,000 seems to be a little on the high side unless your thinking of 7 to 10 years at  USC or some other expensive private school.  There are many schools providing top flight educations for less money.  Also men from poor and middle class families face the same problem paying for an education that the young ladies do.

...we are thrilled with what we do? All the time? Some of the time?  Some of us just have responsibilities and live up to them.  Some of us enjoy our work, but that's the minority.  "Economic Coercion", IMHO, is a leftist code-word for us to consider the fruits of Communism.  No way.  I will take hard core capitalism ANY DAY.  I will agree that capitalism sucks -- but at the same time -- it beats hands-down any other economic system that the human race has invented.

Also keep in mind that most schools do make financial aid available, though often this imposes debt, a busy work schedule or both.  Some private schools (Yale and Princeton are best at this) will make it possible for you to attend without taking on both debt and work, though usually you are stuck with at least one or the other.

Naturally, this won't cover spring break, or even partying at school.  It certainly won't pay for semesters abroad, nice living conditions and other things like that.  I think that's why a lot of the college students in this business get into it.

And at a certain point financial aid does run out.  Those on the "5-6 year plan" often find that many aid programs stop after the fourth year of college.  It gets tougher and tougher as you get up into grad school.  Most of the providers I've known who were students are actually grad students, usually women who were out in the "real world" for a while and didn't want to go back to a "student lifestyle" when they headed back to school a few years later.  I've known two who were in law school...

MisterG

In some ways men have a more difficult time, and in others it is easier. Male daty and gigolo services usually do poorly on NASDAQ.

Women can sell sex. Men often cannot give it away and many must beg, even beg their wives for a bj once in a while, especially if their wives are Southern or Jewish or have small mouths - ethnic slur definitely not intended. Ask any Jewish guy! I did go to NYU and have overwhelming empirical verification that even Karl Popper would accept, and Wittgenstein too. LOL.

Both male and female college students, if not from wealthy families, face unnecessary and unreasonable burdens, whether it is $500,000 or $300,000. I was referring to the trip through a first rate graduate, law, or medical school, followed by starving internships and residencies.

Nobody seems to be addressing the fact that the US can afford to educate its citizens much more thoroughly, but does not.
Our national priorities are perverse and primitive.
We don't even have decent candidates for major office.
Nixon the opportunist-crook. Carter the redneck engineer peanut farmer. Reagan the egotistical shallow actor. Bush the spoiled shallow brat. Clinton the very bright sex addict who liked chubettes and was browbeaten by arrogant feminists intent on rewriting history. Bush II for whom English syntax is most perplexing and a third language at best.

Mental progress in American culture is at a snail's pace now, from an intergalactic perspective.
The culture is focussed on materialism and greed, trivia, senseless activities & entertainment, and that will be our ultimate downfall. On top of that the camel f**kers are even worse and are cleverly diverting our priorities. The religious right is no help, singing and smiling about Jesus, oblivious of evolution and science.

I gotta go back to Andromeda and file a report, but I'm taking a few hundred of those Eros hotties and college babes with me in the Mother Ship. LOL
Female college students have the same pressures, but fewer opportunities than males. The choice to blow guys for tuition money is not exactly what they have been dreaming about doing for the previous 18 years. It is easy and a necessary evil.

'aint nobodys business if you do' and 'the sacred prostitute'
i got em both off amazon.com for less than a dollar, worth every penny a hundred times over.
yes there is forced prostitution... but i believe there are many more, esp. independants, who actually Like their job.
'aint nobodys business' is subtitled: the absurdity of consentual crimes in  oure free country...  read it and learn. then pass it on.

Nicole

Probably not too many people remember Edmund G. "Pat" Brown, our Governor in California during the early '60's. His master plan for education was a sparkling crown, with the burgeoning UC system the jewel in the crown. Very low cost student fees for anyone attending community colleges, state universities, or the UC system. It was this great educational system that built the prosperity we enjoyed in California during the '80's and '90's.

Today, our educational system in California is a relative catastrophe, after decades of budgetary assault by past governors such as Reagan, Deukmejian, and Wilson (and, alas, Brown's own son). What use to among the very best higher educational system, is now vying for the bottom. In the San Diego Union recently, they had an article about newly-hired San Diego State University professors living in dorm rooms. All very sad.

"Forced Prostitution" is a great buzz word for News Headlines, but unless we are speaking of foreign countries, and those in America that are NOT American Citizens, it appears to me to be an all but dead topic. As the Internet becomes more and more popular, so do the opportunities available to all, making choices available to everyone regardless.
As for school, I agree it get's costly, and is difficult to get through without financial backing or aid, but what in this life is easy that is worthwhile? Having put myself through my college educations and degree's, I know first hand, and I do believe that when you want something bad enoughh, you'll find a way. To say that because one's college degree was so expensive that they were "forced" into prostitution, to me is a not possible misnomer. One must ask themself what is the justification for their higher education? Does the end justify the means? Forced? Please save it for the campaign trail. As I do not believe anyone is forced to do anything in this day and age. But that is just my opinion, and what do I know?

And that's just an hours work.  Initially I was trying to help her out by using her service, until I saw her brand new car.  One day I test drived it, and I would say I will probably get use to her job.  As for the rest of the income, she has a $500,000 term life, goes to college and planning for a degree, and rents a decent apartment not far from the beach.

I'll never understand the *why's* of these fools, but they exist in abundance, and they are VOCAL... they draw attention by virtue of their stubbornness! These are the folks who simply cannot exist without telling others how to live their lives.  They sneak their way into popular thought on platforms like... "we're trying to HELP women!" Well shucks, who wouldn't want to HELP women? But helping is NOT what they are doing, and BY DEFINITION... anyone who tries to take a choice AWAY from me is not helping me, is not a feminist, but is just another oppressor of women. The feminist movement was at one time, about FREEDOM OF CHOICE for women... now it's about "freedom" within the limits set and defined by the morality police. "Freedom," as long as we do what we are told to do, of course.  God forbid that any of us should actually ENJOY our sexuality, ENJOY giving pleasure to others.... perish the thought!

This is one of my pet peeves and makes me furious!  No, of course not all prostitution is forced prostitution, and in fact I don't think MOST prostitution is forced... regardless of the details, we all make choices in our lives... if we make a choice to start using crack, becoming an addict, and are thus "forced" to prostitute ourselves to support our habit... THAT is a CHOICE.  Blaming "society" for it doesn't change the fact that the responsibility of that choice lies within each of us.  

I don't mean to sound unsympathetic... But I feel like our society at this point has reached an all time high of not "blaming" (placing responsibility!) anyone for their foibles. Instead we try to "understand" and "help."  Well the bottom line is that no one can be helped who is not ready to be helped, and each of us has to take responsibility for our actions and help OURSELVES, before anyone can help us.  

Grumble mumble... ok I'm done venting now

Hugs*
Nicole

I think it's still a choice. Becoming an escort may be "easier" in some ways, but harder in others, than say... getting a loan (like I did to get thru school).  Financial aid, work study programs, loans, etc, all DO exist and are available. My brother worked his way thru school working two jobs at one time and essentially working his ASS off, but he did it... I didn't work so hard, I got the loans instead!  Anyways there are ways to get thru school and yes escorting can help, but it is a CHOICE, not something anyone is FORCED into in any way.  

I don't mean any disrespect to anyone who does choose this way to get thru school... but I do believe it is a CHOICE, and I think that's where we disagree... and btw, I LOVE what I do, or I wouldn't be doing it. Thinking of ladies who do this and HATE it, makes me profoundly sad for them.

Hugs*
Nicole

I'm moving to a Country where prostitution in not Illegal. Brazil