if your 30 or 60 it doesn't matter. This is pay 4 play. No envelope means no fun 99.999% of the time. Some guys claim OTC time but that's very rare.
I agree what is there to discuss?
If one of these civvie girlfriends is hot, point to a very overweight or not-very-good-looking guy, and ask if she'd have sex with him.
The impression I get from most guys on this forum, no matter their age, is that they're overweight or not very good looking. They're paying to get women they could not get "for free".
What I prefer in my personal life and here are two different things, because I am not dating guys that pay me. I prefer older men in the hobby, but younger men for dating. Why? Because we have more in common generally. Anyone over 45 maybe 50 is rarely fun like Gambler and Inicky are here, so I tend to avoid those types in real life, but if they had personalities like those two...game on! It is more about confidence and personality than looks that I base my decisions on, because as we know the right attitude can make a 6 a 10 in 24 hours. My ex was ugly as fk by most standards, yet I was head over heels for that fool
Also trim and devilishly handsome. Sadly, I break your "6 inch rule." *sobs softly*
I break the rule, too, but not by as much as I used to. I'll believe the "devilishly handsome" part when and if I ever see it.
I think you're putting too much weight into a casual conversation/question, a lot of people when asked something where one answer may adhere to social conventions and another doesn't may not have the energy to explain their nonconventional answer. Like asking married people, "if your spouse cheats would you forgive them?" Or "if your SO wanted to have an open relationship would you be open to discussing?"
I think a good number of women 25-35 would be open to sex with an older man, but it's not the most conventional thing, so why would they say it in public? I still only admit half of the stuff I'd be open to doing. Usually requires lots of liquor.
I just spent time with does not have to go into the bathroom after I leave and put her fingers down her throat!
Though I still think I am in fair shape and think rather highly of myself I do realize that when I am with a girl in her 20s or 30s and even 40s she is a younger girl and wonder how they view me. I really have not had too many of the girls make me feel weird and sometimes the younger girls say some really nice things to me like you do not look a day over 45 lol. In the end I do not think I am the worst looking guy to come thru a girls door and try to make up for the age thing with some good humor and a relaxed attitude. I do not however deem it necessary to take one of these younger girls out for dinner or something as I do not want to embarrass them or myself with people looking at us thinking I am just a perv or one of you pervs out there saying to yourself "Wow I sure would like to bang that guys daughter" lol.
I have divorced civie friends out there chasing civie girls 20 plus years younger than they are and they still do get those girls but I think they are just pathetic and delusional in thinking these girls want them for there good looks as even though these girls are not providers they are looking at my friends bank rolls more than there dick sizes and they get their guts kicked in from these girls in the end when they make the mistake of falling in love. I would really like to tell them they are better off getting it by the hour!
Just wait until you have read a thousand "I've fallen for a provider" posts.
and while I am not out there "chasing" girls twenty plus years younger than me, I do occasionally catch one, and I am not so full of myself not to know that many of these younger women are only with me because I can show them a better time, because of my bigger wallet of course, than the typical guy in his twenties or thirties can. but if you are repulsive, no amount of money in the world is going to get you too much traction in the civvy world. The best you can hope for is to get a bunch of very expensive dates with a gold digger that won't "give it up" until you have spent a hundred times what you would have given to a hooker.
I feel the exact opposite about taking a younger lady out in public, I like the looks from other hotties, and I can just hear them thinking to themselves, "I wonder what he's got going for him to land that hotty?" It might be embarrassing to you, but I happen to love being with the hottest woman in the room
It's just what works for me.
Yeah I agree, they are delusional in thinking that it would be their looks that are getting them regular girls (of course unless they look like an actor or something). But money doesn't have to be the only factor in the girls liking them, they can be attracted to the safety, the fame/prestige, etc.
I remember when my ex was in grad school, joking about how many math professors at 60+ were marrying and having kids with their grad students who were 25-30. Financially secure but by no means rich attracting these very pretty young girls. An unnamed one would even start the semester with an introductory ice breaker, "I was in Brazil with my son from my first marriage visiting my girlfriend." No envelope there.
Usually requires lots of liquor.
It's amazing the stuff I could get my ex to do when she was drunk.
If you're talking about civvie women looking for a relationship, they are mainly looking for people their own age and of their generational culture. If they are family oriented, they are looking for men of a certain age close to theirs that will have the energy for a family. Values, mores, commonalities come into play. There exceptions to every rule, before you people jump all over me on this.
Now, younger civvie women just interested for sex? If you're an old fat guy, you better have a great personality and the means to entertain. Old guy in shape, maybe a bit better if he was recommended by a friend. Let's admit it, if you're in the civvie market and you're looking to get your itch scratched, you looking for a guy that has you wet at first sight. If the guy isn't a total jerk, he has a good chance.
Having said that, I have found that ladies in the hobby are much more open minded. Yes, we have to P4P, but really, that just gets us in the door with at least a minimal level of performance. I've had some great sessions with some great ladies because we just clicked. I've also had some just satisfying session, but there was no real chemistry. and, yeah, I wouldn't be the first to admit that sometimes I think of what it would be like to date one or two in the civvie world.
I've had a couple people already tell me that my perfect civvie GF would be a retired or getting ready to retire provider. I'm not sure they're wrong. LOL. But I digress. Just the opinion of a fat old guy.
very few guys under the age of thirty would be getting laid unless heir to a fortune.
From the late Anna Nicole Smith to some feigned Pollyannaish gal on the down side of her dirty thirties on eHarmony.com the genetic code dictating “security” is the driving force in women. Society and its ‘engineering’ ordains young women to seek viral young men and start families with them. But at least ¾ of the providers on this website did this drill in their twenties by marrying, dropping one or more genetic replicants, and then found dissatisfaction in the lifestyle they unwittingly created. Now the balding, out of shape, physically indolent 50yo and above males with all those years of amassing fiscal security who now generously bestow their disposable income on them seem awfully attractive.
Young civvie females are repulsed by older men because they have been culturally ‘programmed’ to do so. Once the fairytale veil of bullshit lifts from their eyes only older males with no more fiscal security than a common 21yo are considered “repulsive”
In Latin America there is absolutely no stigma for a man to be with a woman young enough to be his grand daughter. In the States we are so sexually repressed that people do indeed get the old "is this your daughter" comment. I've have it happen to me before, but never "down south"
Of course my opinion is evolving as well as I get older, I still remember thinking to myself when I was young "What is that hot young thing doing with that old geezer?" now I am that old geezer and I know exactly what she's doing with me.
Sure, there's no stigma for a man to be with a woman young enough to be his grand daughter in Latin America, but there's other constraints just as arbitrary, like the stigma of a woman working, or making more than a man, those are still very much in place, and frustrating to an extent.
I guess there is no stigma for a man to be with what amounts to little more than child in many Muslim countries, but the trade off is a thousand times worse.
The only thing positive I can say about "machismo" is that is makes even a gringo pig like me look like a "nice guy" in comparison.
So what if a woman makes more than a guy does, ego=stupidity. My ex made nearly as much as I did when we were together and now she makes more. All that meant was that when it came time for the divorce we both left with an even split, she kept her portfolio and I kept mine, I'll admit that ours was a very civil amicable split. But if I had married someone that made considerably less than me, she may have saw fit to go after my money. All she got was the dog, dam I miss her, the dog that is. But I have dealt with enough South American men in business to recognize the macho ego thing, so I get what you mean, just don't understand it.
I've been trying to figure that one out for maybe 20 yrs, I'm sure some anthropological reason. My father is married to someone 20 yrs younger, but god forbid she may make more. Nice man though.
It's all relative.
A very close friend of mine is married to a woman who makes about three times as much as he does. She's attractive, has a killer body, and treats him like a king. He's a bit overweight, not what most people would say is good looking, but treats her like a queen
And it's happened more than a few times, once, in fact, with you. Last time I was with a gorgeous Korean/American girl (not a K-Girl, raised here; doesn't provide the standard K-Girl service) and a friend with another curvy hottie. The gal with me was barely 20 and looked it (even poured into a skin-tight mini-dress). I was fully prepared for some old biddy to come up and say, "Shame on you! She's old enough to be your daughter!" I would have replied, "No, madam, in fact she's far too young to be my daughter." LMAO!
I think confidence is a turn on for almost everyone. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not attractive, I'm 50 a little over weight not in the best shape. But I'm confident in my own skin, in who I am and I've been with some really hot women in the hobby. I've never once been shy about being naked in front of any of these beautiful young women and if I read body language correctly I've never repulsed any of these women. I believe this is because I am comfortable and confident in who I am. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that I would be completely invisible to these women if it weren't for the arrangement and that's ok, if we were all beautiful then none of us would be beautiful. I'll say this though, of all the beautiful, young sexy women I've been with, all of them have been eager to see me again. That is certainly not for my looks or sexual prowess.
They said no to the general concept of older men.
But I'll bet if you gave them the names of some 50/60 year old actors that looked pretty good, a lot of them would say yes.
Obviously not every 50/60 year old guy is going to look that good. But a lot of them don't look all that bad either. As long as they are healthy and clean what does it matter?
This is Clint Eastwood at 63. To my knowledge he's never had plastic surgery, so what you see is what you get.
I wonder how many 20 something's would turn him down, even if he wasn't famous?
Those young women probably have never been with an older man. So they don't know what they are missing. I must admit that in my 20s my last desire was to be with an older man. But it happened one day while traveling abroad, just by happenstance, and it was such an amazing experience! How different that man was from the grunting and rutting 20-somethings I'd been with! At that point my body knew it liked older men. 
Sheesh. This guy is just too stupid for words to express.
It is the kind of post FIDIOT would make and is replete with mis-spellings ("dicuss"). His handle lacks intelligence but is still arrogant. All the signs are there. I'd say you're right.
a bit and lighten up the boards after a day or two of very heavy and intense (not so much fun) threads.
But I can respond seriously here:
Ask your civvie friends if they have slept with men who are older than they are. Ask them what percentage of men they have slept with were younger than them. Bet you find that older men win; ESPECIALLY for that age group.
Now the easy part:
Ask them if they would sleep with George Clooney, Johnny Depp, Brad Pitt, John Stamos, Dylan McDermott, Tom Cruise, Richard Gere....
Yeah I know they're all hot actors. They are all also over 50. And there you have it.. age is NOT the deciding factor by a long shot.
My own experience is that if you are uncomfortable with yourself, everyone else around you will be too. If you are relaxed and own your own space, you can meet and talk to anyone. Once the ice is broken and shields are down, many things that were never considered before become possible. There are many women who could never let their freak out with potential relationship material, but can do so more freely knowing that a relationship is not possible with the person they are with for just one night. No pressure, no judgement, no guilt.
And yes, paying for it is much, much easier. I just like the hunt too, sometimes.
Sean Connery was still hot at 80!
-- Modified on 11/15/2013 9:40:34 PM
Yep. The only difference I think age really makes is that you can be smart when you're young, but you can only be wise as you age and gain experience.
My father, God rest his soul, developed a very strong attraction to Barbara Eden of "I Dream of Jeanie" when he was in his 70's. He got every episode of the sitcom on tape, as well as movies she'd made (I didn't know she'd made any). He had Barbara Eden everything.
When my brothers and I got my folks moved into assisted living, my dad was 90. I was going through some boxes of his papers, and found nude pictures of Barbara Eden. I didn't imagine that nude pictures of her could exist, given the background screening that TV show actors received.
It made me feel good about my dad that he was still horny into his 70's and 80's. Didn't look like Sean Connery, though. 
