It means the answer is NO to the following.
1. Hey you sweet thang! You sure look good. Can I trade one super swamper tire for an hour of your time?
2. I know your rate is XXX per hour, but I only have X. Will you accept X?
3. How about I come over for free? I mean, I'm young and really hot. I'm not looking to pay anyone for sex. I promise you it will be super hot.
4. I think you look like Steffi Graff, but I'd only pay her half of what you're charging. Can't you do it for half?
Non-negotiable simply means that. The providers' rates are not up for negotiation. This isn't let's make a deal or the price is right.
-- Modified on 8/26/2003 3:01:08 PM
Amen, Interesting Woman. I have had men tell me I should give it to them for free becuase they are young and hot and others who try to get it for half price. For all of you out there who think you don't have to pay for a date then don't .... but DO NOT waste my time or insult me in the process. Go to the local bar and pick someone up.
Insult? Why would it be insulting to you, that I should ask, "I see you've posted $$$ as your rate, but I only have $$. Is it possible we strike a deal?"
I've posted about this elsewhere in this thread, under, "The more they say" as the title to my comment. Frankly, I think you're missing out on presenting a decent front. The price of your session may or may not be negotiable, but the attitude behind "don't insult me by negotiating" bespeaks a princess, not a provider. You may or may not BE such a princess ... I'll never know, cuz I won't call ... but the advertising presentation SUGGESTS you are.
It's possible there's a major miscommunication, or difference of assumptions, going on here, since the people I see questioning the "non-negotiables" are men, and the people I see supporting it are the women.
By all means, do as you choose. I don't mean to suggest you're "wrong" to do whatever you want or need. But I do suggest, you're really turning off a type of guy who doesn't want to be ordered around. And I REALLY don't see why it's an "insult" to be bargained with. You don't set your prices, the market does. What's wrong with extending that dynamic down to an individual level?
I'll bet Mexicans, who are more familiar with the notion that all prices are fluid, aren't half as confused as us North Americans, about this concept.
-- Modified on 8/26/2003 4:28:02 PM
Yes, I or we may be turning off that type of guy who doesn't like to be ordered around. At the same time, I may be turning off a guy who wants to order me around. In the end, it's a blessing for both parties. If someone wants to negotiate, I don't feel insulted, but again, my rates aren't up for negotiation. This works for me. It may not work for all people. As always, people should do whatever works best for them.
P.S. Nobody would ever describe me as a princess. They would more likely say I'm a bitch - a bitch who doesn't negotiate
Book_guy she just feels that her clients are too lame to pick up a girl at a bar. And since at least half of her clients are hen pecked married men who are used to being ordered around she might as well continue the practice. It is not about being insulted it is about power and she feels that she has it. And I suspect that with many of her clients she is correct.
Of course with that attitude if she actually provided a so called GFE the performance would be worthy of an oscar.
I was saying I was insulted by the men who wanted it for free because they were "hot and young." If you feel the need to attack me at least know what you are attacking.
I see, the insult was from the idiotic young men who thought that just cuz they were "hot and young" they should get it free, or at cut rate. And not from the average client who might want a lower rate and attempts to bargain politely, even though he's doomed to failure. OK, I can buy that, that does seem somehow a bit more insulting. :-P
But Humbleman's point is good -- that the whole power-dynamic of presuming one or the other can "order people around" is certainly implied in some way or other by the storefront, isn't it? I mean, some women suggest "here's what I'll charge, and I prefer not to bargain" while others demand "you will pay me my posted rate and I will not in any way brook dissent, and if you attempt to bargain you will be disconnected LIKE YOU DESERVE YOU LITTLE MALE WORM." LOL. You can see where the latter would be weak business practice.
I loved Humbleman's insidious double-reasoning, by the way ... the manner in which a detractor would be damned if he did, or didn't, agree with him. Very passive-aggressive, also most likely true for some providers. Heh. Are you from Canada, Humbleman? You sound like it.
and we all know that Dr. Phil can't be wrong!
*LMAO*
i mean call you up and say "i'm young and hot" or "you should f*ck me for free cuz i'd be doing you a favour"!?
outrageous! LOL ... i mean the audacity ... ah ... i mean ... it's just ludicrous ... MY GOD ... what CAN they be thinking?
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hello! ... you're still looking?
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[note to self]: tell them you're "hot and young" and that they should be GLAD you called them in the first place. it'll work. TRUST ME (i read it on the boards)
Yes, singleton, they really do that. That is one of the main reasons many of the top providors (including myself) do not see anyone under the age of 30. Hopefully after the 30 year mark men learn a few manners "Hopefully" being the operative word lol!
She's the astral twin of a girl I dated in college, too... hot, hot, hot. Unfortunately, listening Dr. Phil's wife's voice can drive you crazy in short order - it's worse than Fran Dresher's!! *LOL*
He can kiss my naturally, round, ass. Until the day he comes into my house, pays my bills, fucks me until the sun doesn't shine, then he can take a dive in someone else's pussy. Until that day, Non-negotiable means my rates are what they are. He wants a lower rate, go to the nearest Ten and dime store.
It never ceases to amaze me how many people have difficulty understandng the english language.
When I was in first grade, an elderly lady taught me how to read. Therefore it always amazes me how people just blatantly ignore a warning, such as this, something as explicit as "non-negotiable". I used to see, and still see on occasion copies of currency, or copies of checks that state right on them "non-negotiable". Do people try and use, or cash them in? I used to think not, but after reading this thread I am not so sure.
I personally do not try and "negotiate a rate" with a provider whether her rates are posted as non-negotiable or not. I have done so on occasion with a merchant selling inanimate objects, but only occasionally. I would never try and negotiate with a provider for two reasons. First, unlike that cheap trinket, or those illegal firecrackers that you bought in TJ which are inanimate objects, a Provider's stock in trade is anything but inanimate.
Secondly, although we are indeed speaking of a service industry as with anything else in this world, you get what you pay for.
Time was, in just about everything, if a person saw a sign, or someone else made a statement the meaning of that sign or statement was understood and complied with.
I spent 18 years in the Car and Truck Rental Business, an unrelated service industry, but a service industry all the same.
At peak season we had large sign up that said basically the same, ie rates were non-negotiable. We had another sign that read "no soliciting allowed". Nothing would piss me off more than some yutz drop his drivers license, and A/X platinum in front of me and say"What kind of discount are you going to give me?". I would quote him the highest rate I had, and when he angrily(as they almost always were) asked what else I had, I told him that the Bus stopped right outside very 20 minutes.
Sorry boys, it's their game, and if we want to play, we do so by following their rules. Not fair you say? Well, last time I looked Felicia, and her sisters were still free!.
Tune in next week when I tell how I had to explain to an individual born in this country, who spoke english like, and was a native what the words "Wet Paint" meant(true story).
frankly, "I-dub" my dear! ... come to think of it, who would've thunk it, cuz i think you DO in fact look a not-so-"tiny" bit like Frauhlein Graf [sic] ... except for your superfluous "f" (in her last name 
what is that extra "f" for anyway? ... if i may be so bold to ask? (asking is allowed, no?)
It gets worse than Steffi. I've had lots of people tell me I look like Babs. Is that supposed to be a complement?
1) You'd be unavailable because you had enough millions. Of course that assumes the talent comes with the body.
2) I'd be madly in love with you.
It probably means about the same thing as the "h" in Fraulein.
Fräulein or (sans umlaute) Fraeulein
thanks ßuddy!
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btw ... Übrigens sind Sie durch irgendein Chance Deutsch in Ursprung ?
-- Modified on 8/27/2003 7:31:52 AM
internet tools really help a lot.
No, I am not German in origin. I am flattered that you have no idea what my ethnical background is. That means my opinions stand on its own and not colored by where I was from - I guess a successful example of the idea of a melting pot. Too bad it is no longer a prevailing idea in this wonderful country.
Frau Agassi. Life is full of disappointments.
In fact she is as close to a dead ringer of a famous actress as I ever seen in this hobby or everyday life.
-- Modified on 8/27/2003 2:31:36 AM
you know i'm "A Collector" of provider celebrity look-alikes!
LOL
Won a trip to Acapulco....traded it away for a can of nuts. It was fun though!!
maybe it's not Let's Make a Deal .... but we've ALL made the mistake of picking Door #3 a couple of times!
The more they say "no" or "you have to", the less I say "yes."
Even IF a woman has very strict requirements in her own mind about the type of man she'd like to see, the type of behavior (including, no haggling) she'd like to expect from him, or any of a number of other restrictions, even THEN I don't think it's appropriate for her to bring it up at the outset. She can wheedle it out of him later, cajole it, figure out how to mention it politely, but if she just starts the interaction right from the top by making demands on the man, she ain't got the right attitude.
This probably belongs as much in this thread as in the one a little lower down, about "major turn-offs." It is SUCH a turn-off to see that a lady doesn't understand that this is a SERVICE industry. What HER job includes, is making us feel that SHE is doing all the work. The more she says, "you have to do this," the less she interests me.
I had an interesting discussion with a lady here in Florida who ran her own agency for a while, about the "princess" notion that many of the beginner girls had regarding the business when they started. Many of them would arrive with a whole raft of expectations, "I don't want to see men who are too well endowed, I don't want to see men who only bathe once a day, I don't want to see men who are too little endowed, I want to be turned on by his smell but not by his touch, I want him to drive only high-class cars, etc. etc. etc." The Madam informed me that many of these princesses felt that, if a man was initially bargaining about the rate, she was somehow "slighted" because he didn't "want her enough". Even if the bargaining took place between client and Madam and didn't even involve the provider!
According to the Madam, generally, they lose these ridiculous notions or don't succeed in the biz. The obvious concept, is that the girl thought she was getting paid and was ALSO going on a typical civilian date, and failed to realize that the PAYMENT was going to be her benefit, not the DATE. Another related concept, is that these women probably don't bargain-hunt when they're shopping for themselves, and so don't realize that a great deal of pleasure can be gained by paying LESS for something of high-value, rather than MORE. It's an attitude that people who have learned to "do without," such as my poor-ass self, value a great deal in a partner. The converse attitude -- the more it costs, the more it must be worth it -- is a late-American-empire princess attitude, to me.
I think "non-negotiable rates" is another aspect of the same personality, although a bit more subtle. It says to me, "My attitude is that I am the glorious princess to whom all must bow and scrape; if you can put up with that, then I can (barely) put up with your presence for (barely) and hour." I don't want a provider who can only (barely) make me feel welcome.
Her job is to make me feel wanted, not scrutinized. If she thinks the scrutiny is an OK thing to do, she should do it secretly, discreetly, under wraps. Not as part of the whole negotiation package.
Now, all that having been said, it's possible that the people who have the sign "don't negotiate" on their website actually aren't like those princesses at all. I'll never know, because I'll never call them, even should the rate they post be well within the range I would feel appropriate without bargaining. They would do well to take it off if they'd like to do business with me.
-- Modified on 8/26/2003 4:17:54 PM
When I see a list of "expectations of a client" on a provider's website, the term "princess" does not immediately come to mind for me.
What comes to mind for me is "did a client really do that?"
Buh, Bye. I never negotiate. I am not selling cars here. Until that day, my rate is what my rate is, and I am not lacking of dates either Infact, I have great reviews that reflect steamy times, that I have with my male friends. If a guy is not happy with my rate, that is his issue NOT mine. If one guy fails to make the hit, there will be another one who steps up to bat and scores
The "princess" type provider you complain about certainly exists and annoys the hell out of me. But the type of client InterestingWoman describes in her "Re:" post also exists. Just how many of them I have no clue, but they're sure out there. Some of them even brag about it on local boards.
So I think your fire is misdirected this time. If you go to your auto mechanic and he has a sign up saying "In God we trust, all others pay cash" do you feel dissed and run to look for another mechanic? Do you walk out of restaurants that say "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"? That's really all that's going on here.
Yeah, good points. Again, I'm probably complaining about people who don't come to TER -- a typical malady of mine, evidently. :P I'm glad you understand what I'm angling at, with the princess thing; perhaps it doesn't take place among our more well-reviewed and articulate providers here at all. I wouldn't be surprised.
what concerns me most is that negotiating rates is most definitely discussion of money in exchange for services. I thought we all knew better than to do that, to avoid LE. at least that's what we always tell them over on the newbie board, you never talk about money or the service to be provided. now if you know this lady from a previous meeting or are a regular trying to get frequent flyer miles type of discount, one may view that somewhat differently.
as for me, if rates are too expensive, or I don't fit her criteria for clients, then I simply do not contact. I simply move on and find someone more affordable that I will probably have more in common with, and enjoy equally as well. that's just my definition of value. then again, I'm a cheap date, and easily entertained.
best regards, mr.man
