On some recent threads here it sounds like some guys out there really think they know their quote "ATF" very well. My question is do you really? I have quite a few girls who I have seen over the years and who I am very fond of in more ways than one and respect but that comes only from the short periods of time I have spent with them and how they have treated me,communicated with me and I truly believe have been very honest with me in regards to aspects of their lives but to say I truly know them for me is going way to far.
To truly know someone takes time like years and going thru all kinds of situations together to find out both the good and the bad of one another not just spending a few hours or even days and then you know if you can truly trust someone and know how they think,and how they will react in certain situations. After all the time we spend with the girls is a fantasy created for us to enjoy and in effect like when dating someone in our civie lives who at first to impress only show them our best sides or what we think they want to see and it is not until later when we get comfortable and trusting with them that we let them into our true selves.
but I will agree that most guys don't really know their ATF's at all. Any woman that I would even remotely think of as an ATF will have moved way past a hooker/john relationship, and I do have many of those where I can say I actually "know" the woman, but like you said yourself, those relationships have evolved over a period of years, not weeks.
To think you really know someone without even knowing their real name, address, kid's names, etc. is laughable IMO. I would say that at the least you should have at least met one of her siblings, best friends, or parents to claim that you really know someone, and if they haven't even shared their real name with you, you don't really know shit about them. Not that that is a necessarily a bad thing, but it is what it is.
But I have gotten to know a young provider well and very personally. Not sure why it happened, but it did over a three year period as a repeat client. Name, address, FB friend on her real page, her work, school, health, legal, family circumstances and events including deaths, her marriage, divorce, etc. Spent a fair amount of OTC time together, even an occasional 'free' session too.
I became very fond of her and tried to be a support (non-financial) and 'advisor' of sorts when she asked. It was not an attraction thing for her, I'm twice her age and she likes guys her own age. The whole thing just happened.
One thing I made very sure of as this scenario unfolded, that was to keep my understanding our provider/client relationship in check. I keep our business transactions completely in tact by never expecting anything extra. I think the relationship is as close as possible without it becoming one-sided, awkward and weird, or confusing to one or both.
It's an interesting life experience and will last as long as it lasts and that is fine with me. It's also given me an inside into the provider world as she knows lots of working women and talks about the lifestyle.
I don't think this situation is very common, but I'm sure I'm not the only guy to experience this.
I don't like the term either, but I wind up using it here on the board when referring to a woman I see more than once who I obviously enjoy visiting. I guess I should call her my Current Favorite, but nobody would recognize CF as an anagram. Looks kind of obscene, even for this crowd.
And no, I doubt if many men know their current favorites to any real depth. For me, if the relationship moves "beyond" that of being her client, it has done so without having any romantic angle to it. At least in the past ten years or so. There's a masseuse I frequently chat with, but it's more the kind of conversation I might have over coffee and doughnuts with an acquaintance who I know on a first name basis. I know nothing about her current home life. We've talked about past relationships, so I know a little about that, I suppose. Aside from that "they didn't work out," there's nothing too remarkable about them. I know what forms of physical exercise she prefers. I guess I basically know her favorite kind(s) of music, but couldn't tell you what her favorite tune is. So like that. It's comfortable as it is, and neither of us want to pursue any closeness beyond what we have. I don't ask her for free sex, and she doesn't ask me to help her out financially outside of the envelope when we visit. I sometimes have lunch with my dentist, too, and that relationship is about the same.
And I don't stalk the women here. Manginas tend to do this. Lol.
To think you really know someone without even knowing their real name, address, kid's names, etc. is laughable IMO. I would say that at the least you should have at least met one of her siblings, best friends, or parents to claim that you really know someone, and if they haven't even shared their real name with you, you don't really know shit about them. Not that that is a necessarily a bad thing, but it is what it is.
You know what they want you to know, just as they only know those certain details about your life that you care to divulge.
Very well said, and you took the words right of my mouth. It's sort of like having friends you only know via the internet. You may get along famously but you're sharing snippets and sort of building a persona.
The ones that I dont know the real names to and dont talk all that frequently except for scheduling appointments, I dont know them well at all obviously. The question would be, do I really care. 
I know alot about my current girl's life. She just likes to tell me what's going on with her. I guess she Trusts me enough to tell me about her personal life and family. I never asked her about her life. I guess she just needs someone to talk to.
Maybe that's actually the case with you and your current girl.
The provider I saw multiple times last year told me all sorts of things about her. After a few sessions I realized that she was making up a lot of stuff for a variety of reasons. She was trying to make her life sound more interesting (a really rich guy took her to Europe and then to Dubai), make herself sound more driven (school, opening a legal business, etc), make her younger years sound more unique (grew up on a cattle ranch in Montana), and often just tell me things to try to further mask her real identity. She sounded like she was telling the truth. She's a good storyteller.
I've gotten to "know" some of these girls over the years and
have become friends with a few.
For me the sex is hotter the more anonymous it is. As the song says
I like to have women I never had or something like that
till the present in about the first 30 minutes that you know them.
I still don't know if I can say that I "know" them all that well then, but I will say that often I end up knowing more than I should (or even want to know.)
Gals should try to be as discreet as they can with their personal information.
If the situation call for it.
And {eom} is your friend.
I know my ATF.. very well.. the good.. the great..and the not so great.. (there really isn't any bad).. and there is no act.. but that varies, I'm sure.. she was very very discreet and private.. but time has created a mutual trust..and a huge amount of respect & admiration.. ..
So you say that "(there really isn't any bad).. and there is no act.. but that varies, I'm sure."
Sure sounds like she has to always be "on" for you so you don't ever see that "bad side"...so there is always an act. That's what the good ones do.
You may trust her...but she sure doesn't really trust you. And there are good reasons for that most of the time. She may be your ATF...but you're her ATM. Nothing more...and she needs to keep it that way.
When you get to see (if ever) her as she really is on a day to day basis...then perhaps you will find out what she really is all about. But do you really want to know? And even if you think you want to know...how will you really be when you find out the reality.
Tough road for gals to walk here...guys think they really know a gal...and the gals have to pretend they allow some john here that he is the "guy".
It's really sad when dudes (kind of like you) think they know about a gal...when others know how she really feels about you/me/next guy.
Enjoy the illusion 
As for gambler's post, I have 3 that I know & have met "family", yet they still don't know my real identity. And as for Mr. Fisher's post, way more than I care to think about. But, I understand, because these ladies are people too and if this wasn't "potentially" an illegal act, it wouldn't be a big deal. As an example, I know my hairdresser's life story & have met her kids. No big deal.
EOM
As a lady here, a few clients I have known were 'dying' to know the 'real' part of my life as I share very minimal, as per my choice. Some more with others. Some have said it 'enhances' the full effect of what I am 'selling' here. I'm like, is that so. In knowing that 'real' aspect about me, my name, my life, what I do etc etc. is supposed to 'enhance' their experience. When in reality 'here', it only makes me feel very uncomfortable being put in that position. Any woman I think for that fact. Then I hear, ok the 'second' date you'll tell me. And I shake my head. No. Pressure me, and sure enough, it will be our last date.
I do believe that some gentlemen here do get offended when a woman won't 'share' that 'real' part of herself, and it does become a form of backtalk in that backroom we call 'backchannel', which is the unfair part of this biz. Men don't like rejection in 'any' form. Period.
No man here should ever pressure a woman to tell him more than she is comfortable telling, no matter what, if anything at all. Nor should he ever try and hurt her business because she won't tell him, that's absurd, but I know it happens all to common. This isn't a game and nowhere in the 'Steele Hooker Handbook' did it ever state, you will ever know anything about me more than what 'I' care to share, when and with whom I 'want' to share. Trust is a very funny word, especially here.
Key is, don't ask and she 'may' share, but definitely don't 'expect' her to.
-- Modified on 5/19/2014 4:02:57 PM
They know all about some gal. And quite often a gal will babble about herself telling those johns snippets of a life. Is it really about "her" life? Sometimes. Is it some life she would like to live? Sometimes.
Many gals have multiple names...they have the stage name here like Taylor. And when a john wants to know your real name you confess it really is Sandra. The next dude asks the same question and you give him your other real name like Holly. Some gals will tell a dude that she lives in Phoenix, and the next dude it's San Francisco.
Same with the backstories gals use. If some john is seeing you (her) for the 5+ times you've already created some story for that dude. Some gals use the same story no matter who they see and how often. Others create a subset of stories for guys of differing session times.
Why dudes need to know more than your stage name is bizarre. But many guys somehow think that qualifies them as "special".
Trust in this world...sure. Just remember to believe only a third of what you see and none of what you hear. Works well here.
BTW....many gals think CPA is a narcissistic son of a bitch who should go to hell. Some others know CPA as a kind and compassionate son of a bitch (sorry Mom). Yet others know nothing about CPA and don't really give a shit whatsoever. All of this works in this place we play in.
I do believe that some gentlemen here do get offended when a woman won't 'share' that 'real' part of herself, and it does become a form of backtalk in that backroom we call 'backchannel', which is the unfair part of this biz. Men don't like rejection in 'any' form. Period.
No man here should ever pressure a woman to tell him more than she is comfortable telling, no matter what, if anything at all. Nor should he ever try and hurt her business because she won't tell him, that's absurd, but I know it happens all to common. This isn't a game and nowhere in the 'Steele Hooker Handbook' did it ever state, you will ever know anything about me more than what 'I' care to share, when and with whom I 'want' to share. Trust is a very funny word, especially here.
Key is, don't ask and she 'may' share, but definitely don't 'expect' her to.
-- Modified on 5/19/2014 4:02:57 PM
Notta thing else. We have stage names for a reason.
And yes, 'trust' can exist here. It just depends on how you exercise that trust and how it's exercised with you, and unfortunately that can only usually happen with 'time'. And we all know 'time' is money here.
Some might think that I do that for just anybody
Also you can use my other stage name...it's Danny (nods to LR).
And yes, 'trust' can exist here. It just depends on how you exercise that trust and how it's exercised with you, and unfortunately that can only usually happen with 'time'. And we all know 'time' is money here.
Dad before. Or Daddy lol not Danny. Sorry HH. And no, I'm not dying to tell anyone my juicy secrets. Those are for me, myself and I. Don't make me dedicate an old school song now lol.
But you can refer to me as Ms. Steele HH.
Also you can use my other stage name...it's Danny (nods to LR).
And yes, 'trust' can exist here. It just depends on how you exercise that trust and how it's exercised with you, and unfortunately that can only usually happen with 'time'. And we all know 'time' is money here.
and I'm perfectly OK with it. It's sort of like a Provider O. If you have one - GREAT; if you can fake a good one - I am good with that too.
Many times it just seems to be something friendly to talk about between bouts; I have had girls volunteer/ slip "real" names much more often than not after a few sessions- usually in the context of a conversation about something different. It's all good - It's a fantasy and other than sweet memories of the session - I don't take it seriously
and truth be told, who can blame the ladies that simply "make shit up" to appease the endless curiosity that consumes some of the guys here?
I am told many things in confidence, not because I am so trustworthy, but because the ladies know that not only won't I repeat it, but five minutes (ok 30 seconds) later, I won't even remember it. lol
Why guys have to fuck up a perfectly good illusion is beyond me. Guys, you have a woman (women) who will fuck your brains out and then disappear into the night and who won't bother you until you call them again. Why you have to dig into their personal lives? Can't you just accept a good thing when you've got it? All the sex you could ever want, with none of the bullshit. Only a dumbass could fuck that up. Yeah, yeah, I know. There are a lot of dumbasses out there.
BTW this is like the third or fourth time in a row that we have been in agreement on a thread, we really need to stop this NOW. lol
on the sunshine, that's all.
little secrets you have been dieing to tell lol.
Breath to long as your waitin' lol. It could be awhile.
EOM
The last thing that I want to hear is a whiney bitching hooker. More times then not, that's what I end up hearing and some of them wonder why I am so quick to get dressed and bolt. Don't get me wrong, some of them can even converse on an intellectual level despite the age gap, but it's all in the subject matter.
Some, after/during the 1st visit, give you "personal" info so you feel special..In the inner circle...so you call them back.
Do I know some things about her? Yes. Do I know her? No.
I don't think 90% of the women that are providers want us to "know" them. And that's fine. I will say that I enjoy getting to know some things about them, it helps pass the downtime sharing these things. I can pretty much tell when a provider is telling me something "about" themselves and when they are bullshitting. And you know what, if they tell me something that I believe and it's not true, well then good for them, because at the end of the day it is a fantasy and if they sell it that well then they deserve my adoration.
I couldn't be happier in this life, I've met and spent time with some really awesome women, and I plan to spend time with a few more.
And you would remember more about them if you weren't so drunk lol I shouldn't be talking I guess.
Was her near death experience. I know she shared the exact same story with other johns and it was a doozy of a story.
I wondered if she shared the story with a dude who is an MD who actually called her on it.
I didn't care...she was a fucking blast and I'd see her again if she ever tours again. I gotta believe that Toronto is boring to not come visit Chicago again!
I don't think 90% of the women that are providers want us to "know" them. And that's fine. I will say that I enjoy getting to know some things about them, it helps pass the downtime sharing these things. I can pretty much tell when a provider is telling me something "about" themselves and when they are bullshitting. And you know what, if they tell me something that I believe and it's not true, well then good for them, because at the end of the day it is a fantasy and if they sell it that well then they deserve my adoration.
I couldn't be happier in this life, I've met and spent time with some really awesome women, and I plan to spend time with a few more.
simple really - it's a business transaction.
Sure - it is possible that the provider might like me and enjoy my company - might enjoy the sex if nothing else - but if healthy attitudes prevail all around, she does not want to know my business nor I hers - beyond the sort of pleasantries you would exchange with any other acquaintance....
I rarely see a provider more than once. When I do it's because the vibe is good and the service is nice. Not because I am looking to acquire an "atf"....
i love all my ATF's and they all love me..makes life a lot simpler..
Which I suppose is to be expected. My regular sees me at her apartment, I know her real name, where she works, what she does, how much she needs to make a week to break even and pay her debts, when she boots another regular or adds one, what her parents do for a living and a lot more.
Another girl I like has told me once that she works in a hospital and another time that she's a grad student. Cum on, honey, keep the story straight!
Gotta love it when they BS you and you know it. Honey, you're not the first girl that has told me she "thinks" of me as her "friend". I say "wait for it" in my head ... and sure as shit within minutes she is either A. asking for a favor or B. asking when I want to see her again. Yup. I was born, but it wasn't yesterday.
Another girl I like has told me once that she works in a hospital and another time that she's a grad student. Cum on, honey, keep the story straight!
There was a certain businessman in the next town over, his motto was "you must first look successful in order to be so". Started what became a multi-million dollar company back in the late sixties while living in a 10 by 35 mobile home. Dressed in $1k suites and drove a German luxury car. Neither his suppliers or customers knew him but he was successful. As long as they keep the story straight, keep the fantasy alive, use good business practices, it is after all good.
Congratulations on the regular. I am willing to keep in confidence anything shared with me in confidence, but I do not pry.
I neither have or seek a huge number of "notches" on my belt, just a fantastic experience from time to time. I have been fortunate.
I had one show me photos of competitions she was in. She also mentioned that she was "Miss XYZ" in a national competition two years ago. Those two items alone would have been enough for me to find out her real name if I'd wanted to, which could have led to all sorts of other stuff. When I emailed her after our date, I explained how much data could be mined from just those two morsels.
Thing is next to my wife, she is my best friend and my wife and I hang out quite a bit with her and her SO. She visited me in the hospital when I was sick. She helped my son with dealing with the scary stuff that comes when daddy has cancer. I helped her out when she got busted,. Of course we fucked. She even tag teamed with my wife even though she is not into girls. I seen her scared when her man was beat up by their roommate. I have seen her depressed. My wife and her go shopping together. I love her, but I am not in love with her. Next to my wife she is my favorite sec worker to hang with. Funny thing though, the more I know her the less sexual the relationship has become. She is becoming more like a sister than a lover. But yes I know her.
I'm not as Jaded as you Married Guys. I've never been Married. So I guess I'm more Guliable and Trusting of these Girls. I never asked to know about what's going on in my ATF's Life. She just tells me. Why she tells me I have no idea. All I know that she Trusts me. At this point I would Never Ever do anything to her to betray that Trust. After over a year of seeing her I think I know her pretty well.
Even if it's a Client. There's always a need for people to talk with others. If she tells you a bit about her Life, then that means she Trusts you enough to tell you. These Girls are putting themselves in a Vulnerable Situation in this Business. They just need someone to talk to for whatever reason.
I've known many going back for years, and I enjoy the ongoing relationship. Beyond that...nothing left to say.
That's enough for me. Oh and as many on this thread have already stated I don't believe in ATF s, she's just the one I'm repeating with now.
To truly know someone takes time like years and going thru all kinds of situations together to find out both the good and the bad of one another not just spending a few hours or even days and then you know if you can truly trust someone and know how they think,and how they will react in certain situations. After all the time we spend with the girls is a fantasy created for us to enjoy and in effect like when dating someone in our civie lives who at first to impress only show them our best sides or what we think they want to see and it is not until later when we get comfortable and trusting with them that we let them into our true selves.
I believe I may have offended the op a few threads down by stating do you really know your "ATF" all that well and all I was really saying was, do you really? At the same time of course the girls really do not truly know us either which is the way it's suppose to be, kind of like "AA" which I am sure a lot of you need lol.
real = drama
the goal "here" I had thought was to avoid the drama and get straight to the good bits....
-- Modified on 5/20/2014 10:49:32 AM
You hear what we want to tell you, it's never 100% the truth.
I never say the 100% truth. Nobody needs or truly wants to know that.