I have been married for over 30 years.  The sexual quality of our relationship was never high, but it hasn't been horrible.   Part of this is due to her conservative and introverted personality, especially in sexual matters.

If sexual personality profiles are scaled from church lady to being on the TER top 10, she is firmly in the church lady camp.  Looks, it, acts it, and has sex like it.  She didn't start out that way.  When we were married she was the attractive girl next door.  Still reserved sexually, but she did some hot things once in a while.

So she finds out that I have seen an escort.  She doesn't like it of course, but she said she has seen it coming because our sex lives have deteriorated over the years. And she thought that especially since over the last year I have been away from home on extended work assignments something like this might happen.  She is relieved it wasn't an affair, so being with an escort was the least of all things she considered would happen.

So she tells me that it hurts her that I don't find sexual fulfillment with her, and she wants to be the source of my sexual needs.  Never mind that it is virtually impossible for her to have vaginal penetration because of pain and it has been that way for years.

Ignoring that point I confide in her that I don't think of her as a sexual being.   She recoils at sexual innuendo, walks out of the room when there is nudity on TV, blushes and changes the subject if I make a suggestive comment or gesture.  She has never had an orgasm with me, and thinks she has only had 2 orgasms in her life.  And with her pain issues over years, it has added to the decline of my interest in our sex lives.

She says I am misinterpreting her.  That she is a sexual being, and loves to be touched and wants me to make more advances and engage her.  So I ask her to tell me about a sexual memory that she has of us that she cherishes.  Something that when she is having sexual thoughts that her mind goes to as a pleasurable experience.

Blank.  She doesn't have one.  She says she doesn't fantasize about sex like that.  She just has these generic warm feelings about being held and embraced and made to feel loved.­­­­­­

Ok.  I get that.  But to me, that is not sexual.  It is the same thing she gets from her father, or what I feel for my daughter when I hug her.  It is a human connection, but it is not about sex.

When I have sexual fantasies, they are about sex.  They are not things I would ever consider doing with a family member, and there is no overlap onto affection that i would give to my daughter.

But am I guilty of misreading her lack of sexual fantasy and closed/non existent sexual persona as a lack of sexuality?  I cannot balance her actions with her perception that she is a sexual being. I cannot reason through why she thinks she is, and I think she is not.  I know the difference between emotional sex, and sex.  And with her it is about 97% emotional.  With providers, it is 97% sex.  And the experience from my male point of view is entirely different.

So I am thinking that you as a provider might have an informative perspective on this.  Since you clearly delineate emotional connection from sex, you are more aligned with my thinking on the matter (I think), but as a female, you may understand more about my wife's thinking, relate to what she is saying, and explain it to me in terms I can understand.

Thanks for hanging in on the long post, and thanks more for your considered responses.

It is one thing for a woman to be bbbjing and allowing cim to suddenly stop, but another thing entirely when the woman has a certain view of sex overall. It sounds as if you married her knowing this and are shocked it did not change...why? See a therapist, that can help. This is not the right place for an issue that is more than sexual but clearly psychological. You can't change a person's views or beliefs about something unless they are willing to be changed. That will answer your question of if your marriage and sex life have hope, or if you'll forever be seeing hookers.

Hi! Just read your post.

Seems to me like your lady needs to really spend time working on "self-pleasuring". If she doesn't know what turns her body on and how to give pleasure to herself, then how will she ever know how to give/and receive to/from you?

I would say turn her onto the work of some practitioners in the field of self-pleasure who can teach her to get in touch with her body and encourage to slowly delve into enjoying masturbation before she moves onto sex and enjoyment with another human being.

Sitara Devi

HER sex life is horrible.

You said that she has had an orgasm twice in her entire life but never with you. So she obviously CAN orgasm.



Lina

asking for provider's inputs.

The reasoon being that I think you have a very interesting situaion because she is willing to discuss your behavior of seeing a provider and use it as a stepping stone to try and find some way of creating a sexual life together.

This is not all that common, IMHO.  Much more often a gal runs to the divorce attorney.  

So, I would take her up on her offer and go see a sex therapist who can try and get you two to start enjoying each other's bodies.  There is more to sex than penetration, after all, and maybe the therapist can help with that too.

Check out The Erotic Highway Board.  Do a search there for sexual treatment, and I bet some thread with the link to an organization of such therapists will come up.  They can then refer you to someone in your area.

Best wishes to you and your wife, and I hope this rekindles something for both of you.

I married her because we get along very well, we have shared interests.  She is a wonderful caring person, and when we were young, although sex wasn't incredible, it was pleasant, and it was possible, but still, it wasn't the primary reason for our relationship.  I didn't get married for the sex, I got married for the companionship.

And anyway, at that time I did not have a lot of experience with different lovers to compare sexual quality with, so I was pretty ignorant in these matters.  The VCR hadn't been invented yet, there was no internet porn because there was no internet, and "stag" flicks were low quality gonzo productions that required a 8mm camera to view, which I didn't have.  So I didn't have much to compare with.

I agree the issue is psychological in one context, but the now apparently irreversible physical problems she has mean she will never be able to enjoy sexual stimulation even if the psychological impediments were swept away.  

She has very abnormal vaginal tissue and uterus and cannot self lubricate, which we think is a side effect of a drug her mother took called DES that produces huge infertility and other problems for the takers offspring.  We went through all kinds of hell to get her pregnant, and she had to stay in bed rest  for the duration of the term 3 months into the pregnancy, and still our daughter was 7 weeks premature.  So she is fighting an unfair fight in the reproductive system area.  

But all that is neither here nor there in regards to my surprise that she considers herself to be very desiring of sex, given a long history of behavior that suggested otherwise to me...

And she said that masturbation made her feel silly and she just could not get into it.

I have asked for guidance through the years, and she always says she likes what I do and has no recommendations.  Again, she doesn't like talking about these things, so it has been a struggle for me as I have essentially been playing "where's waldo".

On a positive note, I tried a tantric exercise on her last night without telling her what I was doing, and she really liked it.  It was just a sensual massage, with no direction towards achieving orgasm or engaging in reciprocal sexual activity on me.  But it seemed to energize her and give her deeper pleasure than I can ever remember her experiencing.  I will continue to work this angle to see where it can go.

I have asked for help and guidance and she always says I am doing fine.  If she won't tell me what it takes to get to her, and what I am doing poorly, I cannot improve.

I have made it clear I want to, but I am not a mind reader, and I cannot do the Vulcan Mind Meld to feel her nervous system to understand just what is going on with her and make course corrections.

reasons for you to get married, then lack of it, or lack of enthusiasm on her part shouldn't really bother you now.

It seems that you have progressed sexually, and she is the same. Yeah, sure..it would have been nice for her to progress with you as well and get on board with Internet porn and things like that.

Oh well...Things don't always go as planned...As such is life..

asexuality, albeit rare, is a valid sexual identity for some men and women. there are various forms of asexuality...i highly suggest doing some reading on the subject. but your wife may be what is termed a "heteromantic"-type asexual, where she is still capable of genuine romantic feelings and desires (and so can very much enjoy kissing, cuddling, nonsexual physical closeness), but lacks all sexual interest. believe it or not, we are not all sexual beings who simply need to find the right person to push the right buttons...sometimes there are no buttons to push. moreover, such a state is not necessarily unhealthy. but it does require serious introspection and a true acceptance of self, and a qualified sex therapist, along with your emotional support, could go a long way toward achieving that.

now of course this is just one theory, your wife may not be asexual at all, but from what you describe it's certainly worth looking to. however, no matter the cause of your wife's lack of interest in/desire for sex, i believe it is safe to say that the two of you are not and never will be sexually compatible, and there is no "fixing" that.

I've heard stories that it is doing wonders in places like you are in...

Frankly, how comfortable she is with sex (or how you feel sex should be), or how comfortable she is with her own sexuality, or any of the other issues you (or anyone else here) seem to be focused on, if intercourse is painful for her, I would think that would be the most immediate thing to address.

How can you possibly "ignore that point"?

No one is going to want to have sex if it’s physically painful. At best that would be something to endure. I find it odd that this comes across as almost as an afterthought to other issues you raise. But, hard to comment on that much farther as you all you say is that she experiences pain with intercourse, and has for years.

There are many reasons why that might be happening---anything from penetration without sufficient arousal/lubrication, to secondary issues related to menopause, to any number of other medical conditions. When she tells you that you are misinterpreting her, have you considered the possibility that you might be?

Just because she is not able to conjure up a sexual fantasy on demand (or, is possibly uncomfortable doing so?) does not mean she is not 'sexual'. And, to say that what she desires is a "human connection", but *you* feel that this "is not about sex" strikes me as quite strange. The two do go hand in hand. This is, after all, sex with your wife not P4P with a paid companion.

Sounds like she is willing to work with you on this. As BigPapasan said, an OB-GYN would certainly be my first stop to try to understand what’s going on there.

A minor point, but a Tantric exercise generally implies that both of you are focused on, present and aware of what you're doing.

That said, it is hard to beat a good massage, and sounds like you're moving in a positive direction. And, quite honestly, try not to think of this so much as an 'angle' as it is some insight into how many women respond sexually. Removing pressure to "perform" or reciprocate can be very liberating.

Sometimes we just need to get there on own schedule

No offense, but I hear this same shit over and over again from guys who marry the so called proper woman, and end up cheating on her...would rather be the whore in this situation to be honest. If you still love her for the very things you fell in love with, it can take time. Tantra is a great way to discover each other and learn to relax, but so are many other things. At least you were honest about what you did behind her back and she did not leave...most women would be gone. It sounds like you have a great lady, and I would not toss her because of this just yet. Good luck to both of you.

I commend you for being as patient and emotionally there for her for 30+years. Then I would like to say if I may your wife needs to wake up and realize how f****** lucky she is to have a man like you. And she should do everything in her power to find her sexual side for herself and not for nothing just suck it up for you cause you deserve that. I am a psychology major and some may find it odd interested in becoming a marriage counselor. The only way to find your sexual side is to have sex, I can't believe anyone other than a nun would be happy about 2 orgasms. Honestly I don't understand your wife's way of thinking, yes affection is wonderful and I can see if someone has pain during intercourse they keep from having sex. As a woman who at one point refrained for those reasons I found out that in the end it had to do with me, cause once I allowed myself to be open a free to enjoy it the pain went away.

I am disheartened by woman who have deprived their husbands from sexual contact; and your wife was actually one of the good women because she was mostly understanding of the escort. Although now she said she wants to be object of your desires and yet couldn't name a time. I must say though that if you really desire to understand you must lay it on the line to her and be very honest and hold her accountable for what she said. "Ok if you truly want this then step up to the plate, cause God created man and woman for the possibility of yes creating other life, yet also for the innocent fact we should appreciate and love the one we committed in sickness and in health and it is free to fuck your husband" So I find it pretty amazing that anyone male or female can think that the Church would ever agree to holding back from your spouse, and if that is what our Churches are ever teaching shame on them God doesn't like ugly.

If you are a wife and have been blessed with a husband as you have been as a Christian you should be searching high and low to find that desire again or suck it up and just do it, and to show at least God how appreciative you are. Or you allow your husband to do what is necessary and be amazing in every other way and pray everyday that he doesn't find someone else cause you are being a selfish I won't say the word.

You are a patient man and I say your wife is one of the luckiest women in the world. If I was in her shoes I would spend the next 30years in something slinky and sexy and ready in a moments notice in hope that I possibly made up for the 30years prior. I hope you enjoy your life to fullest for you regardless cause you deserve to do so anyway you see fit and for her I hope she can find her sexual side cause her life would be enriched tremendously.

Hats off to you for being a wonderful husband who still after all that trying to find some answers I hope that should I ever marry again I am as lucky as her, if so believe me hell or high water I will be at that kitchen stove with nothing except an apron a smile and high heels at least 75% of the time!!!!!

That is first and foremost. Sex should not be painful, & if it is, especially for so many years, she should definitely talk to her OB/GYN about it. There are many possible conditions that could account for the pain she is having.. some treatable, some not, but at least you would know what you are dealing with.

Another thing is the sexual fantasies. Do woman have them? Of course.. but not so much in the sense that men do. When her fantasy's involve romance, cuddling & an overall feeling of being loved, it is not the same feelings she would have for her father, as suggested. Many women need to feel an emotional and intimate connection in order to be completely aroused.. especially civvie woman. So while her fantasy's may not be as x-rated as yours in nature, to her they may be quite similar in what internal responses they create.

Oh wait....you're planning on being a marriage counselor on SNL, right?

Take the pressure off of both of you to have enjoyable sex. You love each other, you get along well, you're obviously both in it for forever, so enjoy it.

Start doing little things every day that aren't overtly sexual, but will get the sexual connection going in a way that she will like. If she likes for sex to be emotional and romantic, make it happen. Show her that you're not only willing to try too, but she can relax and enjoy it herself without feeling like anything needs to happen. The massage was a great idea. What about also having an extra long kiss before going to work? Texting to say you already miss her on the way out the driveway? Or just making sure that you pull her close while you're standing in line? Tell her she's beautiful, buy her flowers, kiss her forehead in the morning, push her hair back and gently kiss her neck as you hold her before you fall asleep. Any chance you get, do something tender and sweet that will make her feel special and connected to you. Go slow, and let her show you when and what she's ready for. With her physical limitations, it must be hard to EVER get in the mood, so show her that she doesn't have to, and it'll likely pick up as she relaxes.

The escorts are about the sex, they're about you. Make home about her, and about the connection. She seems like a great woman, maybe this can be the beginning of a "new" relationship with her

To make my statement about getting married for companionship clear, let me rephrase that.  The primary attraction I had to my wife when we got married was due to her qualities as a person that I could relate to, share with, and our similar views about conducting life.   Sex was/is a component.  But I did not prioritize having great sex with a sexual dynamo as high on the list.  Up to that point in my life, I only had sex with one sexually liberated women (we were 17).  She actually became a prostitute after high school, and I viewed her as an aberration of sexuality that I did not expect to find in women in general.

As I said earlier, I had only had a few lovers (5 to be exact) when I got married at 25.  I really never gave the less than stellar sex at that time much thought, and just thought things would grow.   Again, I was not exposed to porn and had no template to compare against, and really, I just don't recall people back then having a lot of discussion about their sex lives and talking about female orgasm and ecstasy at the level that is the cultural norm today.

So I did not enter marriage thinking I was short changing myself sexually.  I have lived with feeling short changed about 15 years.  This is common place of course.  When you have other investments in a relationship, like children, friends, family relationships etc, you make trade offs on what is the most important.  Sex is recreation to me, not life itself.  I want to have fun like anyone, but it is just my nature to take care of the business end of life before I indulge in recreation.  So being short changed on having fun never struck me as a crises, so I lived with it until recently, when I sought pleasure that I could not get at home.

The OB-GYN prescribed some medications to help with the tissue sensitivity and something for lubrication.  She says when we have intercourse it feels like the bottom of her vagina is tearing.  The medications have not been effective in this matter.

I am not interested in tossing her.  I love her, and it would be beyond unethical for me to do something to her that I know will make the rest of her life worse just because she is unable to pleasure me sexually at a level that I desire.  We have a lifetime of investment in our daughter, our families, friends, and many other positive things and letting sex be something that destroys all of that would be stupid.

My view of sex with hookers is that it is just a porn experience in the flesh.  It is a fun time, just like playing golf or going sailing, just a little more of a close contact sport.  The problem is with my wife's perception that sex is bonding, and is closely tied to all of the other things about a relationship that I mentioned.  

She is not as deeply in the camp that sex is a pure litmus test of fidelity as I have read your opinion to be, which is why she did not head for the lawyers when she found out I had seen a hooker.

But it does bruise her ego, and I understand that completely.  For me, the optimal solution would be to do what we can to increase our sexual enjoyment, give her the comfort to know I would never leave her and run off with LuLu, even if she was the TER #1 escort in the Universe, and I discreetly engage in a periodic episode of fantasy island.  

Of course, that is not the optimal solution for her.  If it were, life would be cherries and roses.

I appreciate the number of thought out and considered responses I have gotten to this post.  I am taking it all on board, and it is helping me to think through these issues with a wider perspective.

Your time is appreciated.

Thank you very much for your very thoughtful reply.  My wife does appreciate me very much, which is why she did not go off the deep end when I told her I had seen an escort.  I also would not characterize her as depriving me of sexual contact, although as I have posted, she definitely deprives me of sexual context.

She has never refused me as long as it is night, there are no kids or guests in the house, and the lights are off.  Its really about her having a low comfort level with sex, but I know she is trying and wants to please me, so I don't want to place blame on her.  As others have said, it takes two to tango, and I could be a better cultivator and enrich my own garden.

You bring up religion, and that is a major factor in her psychology.  She was raised by very strict and deeply religious parents.  So much so they never had a discussion with her about sex.  And those mind viruses implanted in children are very difficult to remove in some people.  In her subconcious, sex is sinful.  And no amount of discussion we have had over the years about the irrationality of that has erased what seems to be a core belief.

And I hope in 30 years, when she is 88, she still has the mental acuity to not wear something slinky at the stove where she might catch herself on fire, but I appreciate the thought!

This is the condescending idiot remarks that make women get disgusted and jaded.

Expecting women to ‘suck it up’ and have sex with their husbands---even if it’s physically painful---just to prove to god how appreciative they are to have him.

If you think god doesn’t like ugly, you wouldn’t want to see my reaction to anyone (man or woman) who seriously suggested I stand at the kitchen stove 75% of the time, dressed in nothing but an apron, high heels and a smile, waiting to sexually satisfy them.

They better hope they hid the all the sharp utensils first.