I have an ATF I am very close to.   We spend a lot of time off the clock--but never have sex off the clock (my rule).   I am married, and even though I care about her a lot, nothing will ever come of it.  Besides, she is less than half my age.

Recently, she was having some personal problems.  She had an appointment before me, and one after me.   She saw them both.   But when she saw me, she was in no mood for sex.  When I said that I was disappointed, she said that she can be honest with me (and presumably not with her other clients)

As I was pondering this, I asked myself, "how could she have no problem having sex with others, one before me, and one after me, but not with me?"  But then I realized that this is a hidden "cost" to getting too personally involved with a provider.  The better I know her, the more she confides in me, the more she becomes a "person" with her own feelings, desires, and, indeed, foibles.

The question comes up, which do I prefer?   In my case, I prefer to be close to a provider, even though it means that the sex may not be there for me sometimes.   But I guess I foolishly forgot that this would be a consequence of getting so close.

I wonder how others feel about this

Sounds like you want to go have an real affair.  Her being half your age has nothing to do with anything unless you are 36 or younger.  I've seen women a third my age, which is what makes this hobby such a hoot.

it to connect with wonderful women.  As many as I can, and every connection is unique (I even appreciate the bad ones).  I love the sex as a way to enhance the connection, and I would dearly miss it if it wasn't offered. However, I also have an ironclad boundary that is never crossed.  I'm not looking for a "relationship," nor would I accept one.  I'll have fun and extend the connection if possible, but the boundary is a 100 mile high wall that cannot be breached.

It sounds like you've made a good connection here, and if you prefer to be close to the provider and are willing to forgo the sex every once in awhile, then have at it.  I just wouldn't make a habit out of it.

Enjoy and Good Luck.

While the gal may like you as a person, I never understand you poor saps that are looking for a "buddy", a "shoulder to cry on", a girlfriend, or a confidante. Wake up, and smell the coffee!

as long as she doesn't make a habit of it, it sounds like you are getting your money's worth so to speak.

Ask yourself this, Would you rather she just go through the motions when she is having a bad day, or would you rather her be honest with you? From what you are saying she may have had sex with the other two clients, but what kind of session do you think they had?

Hopefully she'll knock your socks off the next time you see her. Good Luck

Since you have had a lot of time off the clock with this lady, perhaps she should have treated this meeting in the same manner. The part that I would have a problem with would be "She was in no mood for sex". No matter how much she feels that she can be honest with you, this one was an "appointment" and I would assume that sex was to be expected. "Not in the mood" is something you can get at home. If you paid her, you got screwed, or you didn't get screwed, depending on how you look at it.

and get to define everything for everyone.  What, you think you're fucking Napoleon too sometimes.  This hobby is about what each of us wants it to be about, that's what makes it the best in the world.

Nobody in your delusional world have any fetishes that don't include "Fucking"?

Nobody in your delusional world only want oral?

Nobody in your delusional world impotent beyond meds and just wants to be with someone?

BTW, I never said I was looking for a "buddy", "shoulder", "girlfriend" or "confidante".  I just love women and like to connect with them in my own way.  The sex is part of it, and I hobby because I love the connections that come with the sex.

March towards the drums, little Napoleon, they're calling for you.

I don't, but I was hoping you did. lol

I have been really close with three providers.  It has been a wonderful relationship with great sex, nice friendship, real enjoyment.  Over the years I may have spent a bit more per min of actual sex but maybe not.  I never kept track.  In any case, I have loved every minute of each relationship.  I have also, of course, usually really enjoyed the more usual relationship and the one time contacts as well. These three were very different though.

so I gotta fight with somebody.  LOL

When's the next trip to Costa Rica? I live vicariously through your debauchery.

First off Dixie you are so succulent I just can't stop thinking about you today. I am just driven to distraction by your aura. Your post speaks well for many gentlemen who are not here to just get the pleasures of the the flesh.

For those who have been lucky enough to become more than just client and provider relationship  what a wonderful experience. Now tell me has your provider ever put a price tag on all the times you had things that bothered you and she listened. Think of all the extra time you had the pleasure to enjoy for free that no one else has.

I to believe you did deserve some comfort for your money but evidently you didn't or you would have asked.I know you seem unhappy but has she given you more than you paid for many times before? Then again maybe the next time you see her she'll give you what you feel is owed to you. I know I would never take a gentleman's gift without saying thankyou the best way I could. For each man that is different.

" Thank god there are so many gentlemen who do think providers are worth more than just a piece of ass "

This mature affectionate kissable lady is very confident in who she is and what she has to offer.

OK! I'm ready for a good spanking so I just pulled my pants down for you and i'm bending over

Kisses Haley

The hobby is the "world's oldest profession" for a reason.  When she accepts the appointment, she is a professional - heck - peruse through this board.  The ladies here offer sexual encounters for pay.  And according to some of their advertisements, they also offer the illusion of being your girlfriend for an hour or so.  

She is a professional - what that means, by definition, is that she sets aside her personal feelings to provide a service to you.  In other terms, I am friends with my personal physician.  Frequently speak with her outside of her office.  However, if I go to her office for a scheduled appointment, and she says "I'm not up to examining you today, and by the way you owe the $10 co-pay"  well, you can see where that would go....

I fall for many of the providers I see.  Many have offered suggestions to me that have helped me in real life... many have also shared with me bits of their personal lives... and for the most part, I really enjoy their friendship beyond the bedroom.  However, as acutely aware of the actual relationship as I am, I fell hard for one particular provider - and went on a low key "quest" to have her return my exact feelings... she could not.  Very gently she nudged me back to reality... and happily - we are still friends.

While I do not know what to make of this situation... someone in this situation needs a reality check - you, her or both.  please consider what is going on....  I suspect that once--- no biggie - but what if?  And while I understand the personal issues - it might have been better had she called and suggested that she was not up to your session, and left it to you to offer, rather than wait till you get there.... and then tell you she was "off" on that day - for your appointment.  

Seriously, I had one provider call with a HUGH HUMONGOUS life threatening situation.... and ask if she could cancel...  I was ok with that.... but offered a friendship dinner instead.... That was the humane thing to do - and since this particular provider had done things "off the clock" with me, was something I wanted to do.  She declined- but the classy act of telling me that things were off - for her - on that day, was to me, the right thing.

as others have said, this is a more personal issue... but I think you need to reconsider how you really feel about this provider... and for the record, the gal I date in civie life more than any other is half my age as well.... heck at my age she could be 1/3 my age and still be legal!  Bwahahahaha...  old coots are fun dudes... ask any 20 year old.

From a couple of the responses, it appears that some think that I paid for the time and that is what I am referring to.   No.   I did not pay for the time.   That is not the issue.   The issue is the relationship and what it costs in psychic, not financial, terms.

The cost isn't hidden when he's paid for the session. And it's one thing if you're having sex for pay, but it's damn unhealthy if she has become a "friend for pay."

If it has become an actual friendship and she doesn't want to have sex with you due to honesty, it is time to drop the pay and the sex.

Or perhaps it's as simple as, she needs a rest and a vacation.

But I still think that she should have told you prior to you showing up.... and left you with the options.  no biggie.. BUT you may also interpret this - to now mean that she looked to you for comfort!  hey... that is a real plus... and I would take that as a complement.

Every relationship changes as it grows and yours with this provider is no different. Is she not giving you what you miss on a day to day basis. One must give as well as receive to have a really fulfilling personal relationship. If the cost is to great then it's time to bail out. No divorce here, just find yourself another provider to see. Don't expect the comfort level to be the same so something might be missing and you won't know it till then.

I do understand that this is not what you where looking for to start with but you did travel the same journey to get to this point.

Kisses Haley

-- Modified on 8/5/2008 10:03:10 AM

I only assumed that he paid, but from his post below, I was wrong.

My apologies.

I am a serial close bond developer.

I have been hobbying fairly intensely now for almost twenty years and over that time, I've become fairly close to almost a dozen gals in the sense that I have met their friends and families as well as learned of the most intimate details of their personal lives.

In all that time, I can think of only one occasion where a scheduled session became a hand holding and hugging session because of a personal upset on the part of the provider.  So the truth of the matter is, this doesn't really come up very often and should not be considered a major deterent to forging personal bonds IF that is what you are into.  Of course, the basic rule of pay for play is fine also.

In fact, on more than a few occasions, a provider who was upset over some personal matter has told me that they wanted a good f*ck fest to get their minds off of their problems.  (Well, someone had to do it 8o)

By the way, I did not pay for the one time I refered to above when we didn't have sex.  I felt OK about it right afterwards but as time has passed by (Six years, I think.), I sort of wish I had.  It didn't present any obstacle to our relationship.  We picked right back up where we left off.  Now she is retired and moved down south, but we still stay in touch with each other.  It just seems now that the money means very little to me, but it might have really been a big deal for her.

Little things sometime loom larger as time goes by.

So, what really happened was, the session was canceled.

There is a hidden cost in everything. Why question it? Pay the price and move on. You made an appointment to be with ATF and got something that you didnt expect but you paid anyway. Is she still your ATF? Yes? Hmmmmmmmm.

I wanted to address your question about why she could have one before and one after, but not you. One possibility is that when she is having sex with you, she is truly being intimate and giving of her true self. Whereas when she was with the others, there is much less intimacy involved. You could view it as a huge compliment that she didn't want to just give you some "act" or "service" but wanted to stay true to giving you herself. Another thing you could ponder is  whether you really want what she gave the other guys.  If you prefer the intimacy, probably not.

I enjoy a personal connection with many of my "clents", who I really consider friends....I think it makes the sex way way hotter.

Everywhere I have been stationed or lived over the years, my first priority has been to find a very select provider or two. Certainly I give quite a few ladies a spin in the process, but the ladies that I wind up seeing regularly are those I enjoy as persons, as human beings. I love to romance a lady that I click with - to flirt with her and make out with her. I love it when the lady is interested in me. The sex is the engine that drives the relationship, but it's the mutual caring that makes it memorable. However I do try not to afflict a lady with my problems of the moment - it should be a joyous thing being together. That being said, when I am with a lady I care about, and she needs some emotional TLC, of course her needs become important to me. That's what makes us human.

Sometimes I wish I was more of a pure play for pay guy.  It is, I'm sure the best way to go for most people.

I however enjoy things a lot more when I feel a strong chemistry and then I ineveitably develop feelings. I really enjoy the mystery and intensity when I feel that bond with a woman. This is actually a safe way I can fully feel the intensity as long I maintain perspectitve and remember the context. I have not always been great at that but I'm still learning. I am finding these feelings that lead to a deep bond rarely occur so why not enjoy them as long the lady does not feel uncomfortable.  

Since strong chemistry and intense feelings are rare for me I am not averse to purely fun sexual activity as long as I can have my dfk.

When the bond does develop the sex is a nice bonus but I enjoy the feelings even more. I don't know if I will ever go as far as you have meeting friends and family. Of course you have developed a level of trust that is awesome. I'm thrilled if I can just email between meetings and they take the time to write me back. I am always flattered because I know how busy life can be.
 
Thanks, Mr. Fisher for sharing this.  You have shared what I consider is a healthy perspective. I don't think anyone can deny that it has worked well for you. I also respect the play for pay perspective and know it works great for many guys.




-- Modified on 8/5/2008 3:52:03 PM

-- Modified on 8/5/2008 4:08:06 PM

-- Modified on 8/5/2008 6:50:56 PM

I've only made three trips out of the country so far, and all three were to Costa Rica. I am hoping to take two or three weeks and get to at least five or six other countries sometime in the next month or so, but I've have actually been working. I know I have a reputation to uphold, so I'll try harder. lol

I'm guessing you did.  If you want a non-sexual compensated relationship, knock yourself out.  That's not why most of us are here, but if that's your thing, who am I to judge.  

I've had similar experiences in the past.  Just remember you're paying for sex.  Don't make it more than that.

Yup, wish I could go there too.  I enjoy people in general, and the company of a beautiful woman has always been something I've sought out.

I have gotten quite friendly with a handful of providers.  We've never crossed that imaginary line, but both sides have known it could be fun, until it blew up.

I've also noticed the downside to it.  I've listened to ladies cry over a breakup, or a child moving out, or just having a shitty day.  I've heard about the asshole hobbyist too.  It's nice to get inside, but there's a cost too.  It starts to approach real life, and the fantasy world doesn't come with real life problems.

This happens once,... O.K.  But, I'm gonna see her soon afterwards and let her know how horny I was and that it was a bit "tough on me and my pride".  Upon hearing that, she better treat me like the Mac Daddy King that I am.  Hear what I'm saying?  I mean, no watching of the clock.  And she'd better fuck my skull like there's no tomorrow.  If that happens, then all is well.  If not, then there's a problem.

Although it'd be nice sometimes if I could get paid what I do for that "connection", sans the sex part.

Well said.  I provider that isn't "into it" is not worth the $$$.

Man's natural urge is to try to make a connection.  Sometimes this closness can obscure the fantasy.  Easy to say but sometimes difficult to do--keep a respectable distance and do not cross the line.

This one woman I used to see on a pretty regular basis, I had become somewhat friendly with.  she and I used to discuss kids, etc. before and during the act, since we enjoyed each other's company, etc.

One time, when she was riding me CG, her phone rings.  It was her kid basically threatening to kill himself because of typical teenager issues (acne, girlfriends, whatever).  I listened to her talk with her kid, and of course lost the hardness down below because of her issues she was dealing with.

After 5-10 minutes on the phone, she finally convinced her kid to not kill himself, and to wait for her to get home later.   I was just about to shower and leave, and she said to me: "Where the fuck are you going?  I need you to finish me off to put a smile on my face."  It was then I realized the mental healing power of sex.

I chatted with her after that, and her kid was doing much better.   So perhaps the fact that I was there made her be just a little stronger in her dealings with him.

The last time I saw her was over 6 years ago.  i wonder what happened to her?!?!

"Recently, she was having some personal problems.  She had an appointment before me, and one after me.   She saw them both.   But when she saw me, she was in no mood for sex.  When I said that I was disappointed, she said that she can be honest with me (and presumably not with her other clients)"


I sure hope you didn't have a paid appt when she said she wasn't in mood for sex??  WTF??
If you are using her as a  shrink and sex doesn't matter and her talk makes you feel better,  go for it..
When I wake in the middle of the night and I am am looking for ladies to talk with I go to Wal Mart.. I save my money for first class providers that act like they like sex with me and don't gab too much..

It sounds like you have taken the role of:   friend+ counselor+ therapist.... - (minus) sex - (minus) fundings  =  (equals ) assessment of what is important to you and asserting your true feelings to your friend If a person is truly your friend and cares for you (and not your financing), they will take into account your true feelings.

xo

There is a valuable mix of great answers that you've received to this complex question.

People have their own ideas of what they want out of the hobby.  I, like you, prefer to be close to one provider.  That requires trust and honesty.  Of course, as you learn more about her, and she becomes comfortable with you, she will confide in you.  This begins to take away from the fantasy, and things become more "real".

However, that's the way I like it.  I've had one time where something bad happened in my life just before I was to meet her.  It was too late to cancel, so I went.  I talked, she listened, and asked if I needed to leave.  She offered just to listen.

Conversely, she's had some bad days, too.  But I prefer to look at it as companionship.  I enjoy being with her, and on those very rare occasions where bad days happen, it doesn't bother me if the physical part doesn't happen.

I'm sure there are those who would say, "Well, you're just a dumbass."  And if I'm just looking for a f*ck, they'd be right.  But looking at all the off-the-clock time we both enjoy talking on the phone, emailing, etc., I enjoy what we have outside just the BCD time.

Everyone's different.  Would I choose to pay for companionship without sex?  With her, I would.  But that's just me.

If you are truly friends she is going to be honest with you. You used the term "no problem" when it came to having sex with her other two customers but I submit to you that it could well have been the worst two hours of her day to have sex with these two guys. She did it because that is how she supports herself.

Did she charge you anyway?  To me that's really the only reason I would be upset if I were you.

I very much value the gentlemen I am connected with, and have also shared social time with them simply because we liked being together.

I think she handled the situation very poorly.

If she knows that she can't be fake with you, then she should have told you before the appointment she was in no mood, and rescheduled. Or scheduled on a day where she isn't busy. Or scheduled less appointments around the time she's seeing you.

If you value someone, you should treat them with far more consideration.

After a long dry spell, I decided to use some of a windfall to play with the girls in my area. Soon settled on a couple I was comfortable with to see often.

One it turned out had a lot of "issues." I am a naturally sympathetic guy - in the real world I have a hard time finding girlfriends since they all want me as a friend/counselor/brother. And wouldn't you know it, I found myself playing those roles with providers.

I think that's fine - really don't like the sex and go sessions, a connection of some kind is so much nicer. But it's important here (as in all areas of life) not to offer "open-ended" deals, esp. if you (I) don't really understand what I'm in for.

So this gal calls me to say she's leaving to go have surgery for a cyst they'd found in her ovary. This could easily be cancer. So I go over, I sit there, hold her hand and stroke it (her hand) while she tells me her fears (more about family - she came from a pretty bad family - than the impending surgery). I teach her this New Age stuff about breathing out her fears and breathing in the Light of God's Love (Yes, I am a Californian).

Mind you, this is all on the clock, our 4th date, my first month in this world. I still think that was a very true and genuine magic night - but then maybe I just like to impress myself with how spiritual I am so maybe it's all a game.

She felt I shouldn't go away w/o some sex, so we tried to do it but it was clear intercourse was painful so I let her finish me with a handjob.

And I got to feeling that that spoiled the "spirituality" of the earlier part.

Thing is, I saw her ad the next day, when supposedly she was off to have surgery - it was in another area of our region's listings (did I say I've met most girls on Craigs List and have had no really bad experiences there.)

She told me she missed the flight, left for it the next week, etc. There seems to have be a lot of mixed stories.

So I don't know what to think, but I really no longer think of her as a friend, but a nice girl I like to see from time to time, and maybe I should rein in my need to give a spiritual justification to my adventures in Escortland.

There's another gal I like, we are at ease with each other, she has never shared any "issues" in her life. She called me, said she'd tapped some account too often and couldn't get any cash to reserve a room after a week off (that time of the month). She asked me to advance her some $ by buying on of those pre-paid cards and call her with the codes. She'd give me a discount on an hour next time we got together.

I had no problem doing this. Read some comment on a board - "never loan $ to a provider" but even then had no doubts that S. would come through. And she did, a very nice session.

All this is to say, people are people, in this area of life as in all others, but connection, even if it leaves me vulnerable to flakey game-playing and my own illusions, is preferable to the flat, mechanical stuff from providers I won't repeat, no matter how gorgeous.