I had a situation where I arranged a three-some with two providers. We were to attend a concert by a well know singer, and then retire to a nearby hotel for activities. We met at the hotel; I proceeded to give the providers their respective donations and left for the concert. One provider proceeded to consume too much alcohol at the concert, caused a ruckus and the evening fell apart with both providers leaving me without any activity. I asked both providers to return all or most of the money. The provider who caused the ruckus returned all the money without hesitation. The second provider refused to return any of the funds. She was willing to schedule a time to meet me and perform the services she was to provide. It was difficult to schedule an appointment, one having to be cancelled by my family emergency. It’s now been over a month, I have no commitment from the second provider and she’s not responded to my recent emails. What is a proper course of action to take? In the state where I reside, the amount of money constitutes grand theft.
Did she sign a contract? If she didn't you might be SOL.
I can see the filing now. Failure to provide illegal services. lol
Almost as funny as reporting her for grand theft.
All kidding aside, if you can't get her to reschedule your only real recourse is to let your local TER community know her identity. You could also write a rip off review since there was an actual date. It won't get you your money back, but it will warn others and most likely impact her in the wallet as well.
Sorry about your bad experience.
You are probably going to have to chalk it up to a lesson learned. A hard one. I understand her not giving back the fee but I don't understand her not holding up her end of the bargain. Those are the ladies that give the rest of us a bad name and ruin really good clients like you. I am sooooo sorry this happened to you. Muah!
Persuade the lady to reschedule, or simply chalk up the loss to bad luck and move on.
As you describe the facts, this is not a clear rip-off scenario. Apparently, the lady was willing to perform her end twice but you canceled, once because of the other lady, and once because of your family emergency. Indeed, whether this is theft at all is debatable. She may simply have a “no refund” policy which she modified once but is unwilling to do so again.
Outing her on the Board to increase pressure is always an option but this kind of approach rarely ends well for anyone and poses special risks and consequences in and of itself. Better to ratchet up the pressure privately by sending daily emails, PMs, and telephone calls.
I have to agree with mari,
You took the risk & it blew up in your face... I have to ask if you knew the ladies before this date? This was way too much for a first date. If you put the 3 some together than the fault is partly yours as well.
Increasing the pressure will only make her unhappy & spoil her attitude if she "gives in" to see you. I would suggest you apply for a couple of hour date to settle everything before you write your review. It may be a pricy couple of hours but a settlement... no one ever gets what they want, just what they are willing to settle for.
If she agrees, than write the review as if the only date was the one you get now & forget the cost.
Frankly you're lucky to have gotten any refund...
If there's no response or agreement, than walk away & learn from your experience.
LADIES, I feel this wasn't handled the best. How else could he have handled this so as to not put the entire sum at risk?
skb
First of all: Did you choose these ladies individually or did one lady find the other one for you ?
If the provider that caused the ruckus was your choice you are somewhat obligated to the other lady...The lady who caused the ruckus owed you every penny the other lady gave you a make up session offer and you took it.
Which lady did you choose?
The lady who gave you the makeup session held time again for you and you cancelled...her time has been tied up twice from you...When I read emergency that means last minute so she has lost money that she can't recoup from someone else..And how much time did she save for you? 3 hours or more I would say..More than likely her appointment for the day
How many times did you re-schedule with this lady?
I do not see grand theft here and that would be a sad thing to do on your part. Sounds to me that this lady did try to make good on her part. I would try to reschedule but don't ask for a refund now.
I bet at this point she wished she had just given you 50% of your money back and just walked away. You already cost her that by tying up her time again.
OK guys, I know my ass is going to be real red after this one. Panties are down and ready to go.
Choose your weapon well.. feather, hand, paddle, flogger, whip
Help this gentlemen understand his choices and give him some reasoning power.
I just put my good name on the line any other ladies or gentlemen want to do the same
Kisses Haley
but you make some very valid points.
I think my weapon of choice this time will have to be a feather. lol
The tough part about the biz is simultaneously forgetting it's a biz and yet remembering this bit when it's important. Difficult juggling act sometimes. But you are in my view completely correct. And I know you want a nice open handed spanking from me as a reward '
A good tongue lashing is in order.....
Thank You
2008=27
licking will do the job?
Yes the date did not meet its completion yet you did enjoy their company for the better part of the concert it seems so you paid for their time to some degree.The Lady who was not out of control feels I am sure this situation was not her doing and should not be set to lose out because of the other ladys actions.
Family emergency although may be true, but she may also not believe that depending on when you cancelled, how well she knows you and so on. We don't really know, it's like gossip at this point, tainted by opinions, but she has set time for you on 2 occasins, turning down other Gentlemen and losing other business. I am afraid it will just have to be at a loss yet also a lesson learned.
I am also sorry to inform you that the better business bureau will most likely Not be a viable avenue for your dispute either. lol (sorry)
I already responded below as to the reasons why I think the guy is SOL but you also make several good points Haley. It seems to me that there was enough poor decision making and irresponsible behavior to go around in this case but ultimately a provider's time is what we reserve and pay for.
(or punishment) you want.
This happened to me this summer, maybe the same two ladies, they were smoken. I did fi9le a judgement against them, however their lawyer turnd the case around and said that I did not preform the duties that our verbal contract was inacted upon. I ended up having to pay them another $2,000 in court fees and I had to pay their lawyer also. All in all I was a bone head for not at least getting a BJ before I went to the concert.
Ok, I'll play devil's advocate here. First, what happened the night of the event that prevented you from at least consumating the arrangement?
Second, 'Family Emergency' is a way too often, overused reason (excuse) for one party or another canceling an appointment.
Third, the farther you get away from the appointment date, the harder it will be to get any type of recourse.
Finally, why pay up front? If you're a standup guy, would the providers in question really demand Full payment upfront? If you only gave them half at show-up and the other half upon completion of the evening (or at least when back to the place where the good stuff was to take place) you'd be much better off.
You need to let it be known who the provider who who refuses to return your money.
If she's not responding to your contact, she obviously isnt going to by now.
Name her.
Granted, the evening did not end with a pop, the provider in question DID have intentions of fulfilling your date. She spent a few hours preparing for the date, ie, getting ready, driving to meet you, turning down other clients....she spent concert time with you, AND had to drive back and probably cancelled any other appointments she might have had that night due to the after effects of the 'ruckus'.
She also offered to meet again but YOU had to cancel. Most gentlemen do not realize the amount of time and effort, not to mention expense, that
is involved in just a ONE HOUR date, not to mention an entire evening. Clients with a raging hard-on cannot appreciate this because they are not thinking with the right head at the time.
If anything, I would say provider no.1 owes you a 'free' session for screwing up your night!
Avoid LE at all costs.....no one wins once they get involved. You may think you will 'show her' by filine a law suit, but you are only hurtin yourself because law suits are long, drawn-out emotional drainers and it WILL take its toll on YOU.
So, let's take a good look at the situation. It sounds like your problem is with the second provider since you didn't receive any money back from her.
The second provider was not at fault for the first evening going bad. She tried to reschedule to finish the appointment and you cancelled. I would think your payment includes having her spend time with you at the concert (3 hours?) which she did so you are not entitled to a full refund from her. It seems that she has performed most of her part of the services and is trying to complete the rest. She has already made an effort to reschedule with you so I doubt she is a rip-off or she would have blown you off to begin with.
You say it's been a month. Since when? From the concert? From when you cancelled? If it is from the concert, again you are being unfair to her because she already tried to reschedule so it has probably only been two weeks. Even if it has been a month from when you cancelled, who knows why she hasn't responded? Maybe she is on vacation or had her own family emergency. Why was it difficult to reschedule? Was that your fault? Maybe she had such a hard time trying to reschedule only to have you cancel that she is reluctant to go through all the trouble again.
I disagree with the post that recommended that you turn up the pressure and send daily emails, PMs and phone calls. This will make you look like a psycho and be sure to make her not want to see you and she will probably end up really ignoring you. Maybe you are already doing that which is why she hasn't responded back. It won't do you any good to freak her out because even if she does decide to see you, you are sure to get a poor performance.
Now, from your description of the incident, it appears that these were two independent providers whom you made arrangements with. They had no previous connections with each other. So from the second provider's point of view, you are responsible for the actions of the first provider. It's the same as if she agreed to do the exact appointment with you and your wife/GF. If your SO decided to get drunk, cause a ruckus and make the evening fall apart, should the provider be expected to give you a refund? In a way, you are lucky that she is even willing to reschedule the rest of the appointment.
If the only thing she owes you for is the activity after the concert, she probably only owes you for a one or two hour appointment depending on your agreement. You can email her and tell her she can refund you the money for (part of?) this amount but you would rather see her. This will let her know that you are really interested in seeing her and not just trying to get your money back.
Good luck and I hope everything works out for you.
-- Modified on 9/21/2008 12:55:25 AM
It's good to see someone who can take a step back and think things through. As you pointed out, she has done her best to uphold her end of the deal and more. She had already spent most of the night with him and wasn't responsible for the after concert activity falling through. She has every right to walk out on an appointment if she doesn't feel comfortable or safe with the situation and he shouldn't expect any refund because of it. Grand theft? Give me a break. "Caused a ruckus"? In other words, the first provider caused a scene at the concert and the second provider had enough sense to get the hell out of there. He needs to choose his providers a little better or control the situation better next time.
Not sure what else you can do. If she continues to not respond to your e-mails, write it off as a rip-off. I would not mention her identity on the boards, but would definitely via BC. Best advice: Try to reschedule. If she is reputable, you should be able to eventually do so...
What you will tell the police when you go to file a report on a woman whose real name you don't even know...
I guess I'm just not much of a risk-taker. I can't see spending money on concert tickets and who knows what else just to get laid. Had you seen either of theses ladies before? Were they reviewed on TER?
Hey, it's your money, do whatever you like here but if it were me I would chalk it up to a hard lesson learned and proceed with a bit more caution the next time around. There is nothing wrong with simply having two women come to your hotel, double teaming you until you are spent, paying them, and sending them away. I save the extra-curricular stuff for the ladies that I have gotten to know and trust.
-- Modified on 9/21/2008 10:13:35 AM
I'm going to have to agree with a few of the other ladies on this one.
It sounds like this was not an ideal situation from the beginning. While this date *may* have gone swimmingly, there were a couple simple things in how it was planned that would have given it a better chance of success. Did you know these women in advance? I'd expect this would have been handled much better on all sides if you had an established relationship with each lady. Did you choose both of the women carefully? The first women *may* have had a bad night...but she could have just been a bad choice from the beginning. Finally, you can always consider arranging for private time *before* going out to dinner or a social event (and hence before too much drinking has a chance to happen.)
I'm not sure, were I the second provider, that I would have felt like keeping the money and rescheduling was the best option. You don't specifically say why she didn't feel comfortable finishing the rest of the evening with you, so it's very hard to say much about that. I can see this being a very reasonable or not so reasonable choice, but it completely depends on exactly how the evening happened.
The second provider has now made time for you twice, and had both dates fail. One due to (what appears to be) your poor choice in the first woman, and the second because you canceled (apparently at the last minute). I have no idea what her cancellation policy is, and that could be a very key point to consider in how she is interpreting the situation. It sounds like you need a reminder that this is a business for her, and the lady is selling her *time*, not specific services. I don't think it's too hard to understand that after holding time open for you twice in good faith, that she's not exactly rushing to reschedule and "waste" more of her time on you.
I'm guessing that if she has been suddenly "difficult" to schedule with, it might be because she is uncomfortable with your assumptions that she still owes you. (Who knows, it might be something personal as well.) I would recommend sending her a very polite email telling her that you are sorry that scheduling with you has been such a hassle for her, admitting that the fault hasn't been hers, and asking her to tell you - with all honestly - what she thinks is fair and how she would like to handle it. You may not *like* her answer, but you are most likely to get an honest one this way than any other method. It might open the door for a forthright conversation where you can both be honest about your expectations. And if her answer is "no", there is little you can do but move on anyways.
~ Naiya
Is it bad form for these "date plus" arrangements to deliver the envelope not before the outside social activity (dinner, concert, day sailing cruise, whatever) but instead back in the room when the indoor "plus" activity is ready to begin? Or does anything but delivery at the beginning of the date introduce too much tension (will he or won't he pay?) to the evening.
It seems that the incentive to provide good service being so far removed from the main event may have contributed to the problem.
Grand Theft!!! Please!
I reschedule with him, because i'm honest and stand by my word, and he cancels on me and hour before our scheduled date..family emergency he says on my v/m and HOUR before, nice huh? $$$ lost because i could have scheduled another gentleman. So i schedule AGAIN for last wed, woke up with my red wings and called this hobbyist and told him, so reschedule for tonite at 6pm he emails and tells me to make it 7 so AGAIN i accomadate this man, i rush home from work get home by 6 hurrying to get ready and he calls to say he's down stairs at 630!! i told him i'm not ready and that he has to wait for the half hour..I go down stairs at 655 and NO ONE is there, i walk around the back of my apt. and NO ONE is there, i call his cell with the message that his voice mail isn't set up..i archive his old number and leave a message that if he isn't here in 5 mins, all bets are off, i'm done trying to accomadate him, i also said this isn't a game it's a business, he calls me back at 715 telling me he's downstairs at my place, by this time, i'm tired, i'm disgusted, and i'm pissed that i've accomadated this man not once but twice! I've lost $$$ with his first cancellation, and now this evening as well because time was set aside for him only for it to turn into a busted evening! AGAIN!! His last words to me were " Ok, so now i know what i have to do" like this was suppose to be a threat!, i told him to do his best, because i know what i have to do as well!! and writing this explaining what truly happened IS what i had to do! So i'm thru, I'm done. and it's over!, if he chooses to say my name i beat him to the punch, because i have nothing to hide about my actions or what transpired to bring us to this point! I'm sure there are a few other providers out there think i'm crazy for going over and above what i did for this guy, but i tried to make things ok for him, over and over again, only for it to turn out like this...and if i had to do this all over again? the only thing i would have changed was giving this man another shot after he cancelled the first time! Oh i'm sure a negative review or comments are about to come from him and others joining the bandwagon, but Hey, what can i say...it is what it is, and i did my best to try to fix it for him, on a few occasions!
Needed to air my side of this fiasco, any questions, just PM me.
thanks to all,
Jay
Did you ever read the boilerplate fine print?!? If the phrase "money exchanged is for companionship only and anything beyond that is a choice made between two consenting adults", doesn't mean anything to you need to re-think your participation in the hobby.
Gal2, who has revealed herself which I APPLAUD, has made herself available to meet you, and YOU canceled. Chalk it up to experience. At least you got to enjoy her company at the concert. Many of us have paid much more, for much less.