and you probably are one of them. That said, what are you actually looking for? and why are you looking for it here.

My point is, you obviously are interested in sex, apparently what you want is sex with "feelings", and feeling that are reciprocated by your partner.

If you aren't interested in finding someone the old fashioned way, why don't you try a dating service, or maybe try a Sugar Daddy/Baby arrangement? I might caution you on the Sugar Daddy idea, your chances of finding a Sugar Baby who sincerely develops feelings for you are probably no better than the escort route, and be very careful about "giving your heart" as any woman is capable of tearing your heart out, and anything to do with P4P increases that likelihood exponentially.

You seem like a genuinely nice person, and as such I will refrain from making fun of you, but I think you are looking for a GF, and not anything you are likely to find in the hobby.

To all the other manginas out there, don't think I am "going soft", I will still ridicule you at the drop of a hat. lol

You been watching Dr Phil lately ? Shit-----next we'll all be singing "Kumbaya" on P & R------LMAO !

You are going to be waiting a long, long fucking time. lol

"I just can't separate sex from emotion," that is. I got in my first two marriages that way. And, it's still something I have to keep in mind, even with all the lessons learned.

All things will evoke some emotional response, and sex being such a large motivator in life should evoke a strong emotional response.

The question is how to master same.

I won't go into the whole explanation as there are any number of books out there that do so but I have found it possible to enjoy the emotional side of sex without encountering too much tsuris from same.

Of course, you can never be totally free of problems, but that's just life.  Fortunately there is a board like TER for us to come to and share, and that certainly helps too.

I've been hobbling for 3.5 years now, and I'm wondering: maybe there are personality types that just shouldn't engage in this hobby.  I've learned a lot about myself in those years, namely that I just can't follow those 4 F's: Find 'em, Feel 'em, Fuck 'em, Forget 'em. I just can't do it. And I have nothing against the guys who can. I just can't separate sex from emotion. It just isn't in me.

Obviously, in this realm, that's a liability, and per the post below, has caused me to do some foolish things. Had I known then what I know now...which got me thinking. Is there something I could have read, or some silly question and answer test I could have taken, that would have revealed these qualities?

Also, would a lady want to see a gentleman, knowing that he was of this personality type?

Kudos to those who can keep it separate, safe, and no strings.

As evidence I will point out that you have not took a shot at me for a long time and I may be the ultimate mangina. I even admit to it. Then again maybe I am just to easy to ridicule as step in it all the time. I still think you have gone soft. Now in response to the OP, some people are not cut out for the hobby and only you can decide if you are one of them.

They are as meaningless as any mind fart. It is OK that you have emotions but only if you don't give a damn about them. If you can't do that then you are wise to leave the hobby. Good luck to you.

I consider leaving too. My reasons are different, more about security. Imagine getting outed to a client who happens to be "not exactly a friend" from long time ago.  That will give rise to different emotions than the ones you write of.

In my case, leaving, reinventing... maybe not effective. The milk is spilt. Instead one plays a game of brinksmanship and mutually assured destruction. I know from dealing with my male adversary from over 20 years ago that a good method is to credibly assure him I can be as nuts as he is. Until I can come up with something better, there it sits.

Yes, it is true that the predominant aspects of the hobby can be aptly described as "Find 'em, finger 'em, f4ck 'em and forget 'em."

But BY NO MEANS is that ALL of the hobby.

The hobby is a VERY big place, and that there is room within the hobby for an approach that suits and works for anyone willing to look. No matter what your approach, there IS an escort out there who is suitable. Depending on the details, there could be few or many, but they definitely exist.

Obviously, the approach that works for me only works for me. You would have to find your own.

So I believe your conclusion is based on the false premise that the entire hobby is the 4 Fs. It isn't.

It's best to be very careful in giving meaning to emotions. I had a girl, in Hong Kong (Wan Chi district), grab me by the crotch and try to pull me into her establishment. It felt like "love at first sight," but then, I knew better

The 4F's represent what the majority here would probably agree to be the best approach to the hobby. It allows for the least drama and problems. Of course, it isn't the only approach and rules. I have learned that the rules and boundaries set by each party are just as varied as the individuals themselves, and they do what works for them.

My point is, there are personality types - like mine, for instance - that make them more prone to issues and problems in the hobby. There are probably ladies out there who would fit with them, but probably much fewer than 4F's would.

So what personality am I? I'd like to think that I am a nice man. I am married, and we have a great life, except in bed. We used to, but after kids, her sex drive decreased dramatically. We have talked about this for a while. We sought help, but it just doesn't seem to be all that important to her. When we do have sex, it isn't passionate - I feel like I could be anyone - I just happen to be there.

I've laid down that premise. I've mentioned it so the latter paragraphs make sense, and that is what the discussion should be about.

I figured the hobby would be a great place for me to have sex, and take that pressure off her. What I didn't realize was that I not only desired sex - that I wanted some reciprocation, which I didn't feel at home. After a while, I found I wanted more like a FWB, if you will. Having that here in the hobby made sense - lower risk of being outed, a steady income for a lady, and a friend to boot.

However, most ladies I visited didn't want that, and I felt the same way I did at home. I'm not a f4ck 'em and forget 'em guy. No issues to those who are - I am not. I found a lady who was willing to have a friendship, but I allowed myself to take that too far: I chavez more than she was willing to give.

And she didn't have to give anything. I did things because I wanted to, not because I expected things from her. However, the inherent foundation here is NO STRINGS...and I think that's what I was asking for. That's me. That's my personality. I help my friends, and the people I care about, even here.

I wasn't looking for a girlfriend, or a f*ck buddy...I wanted a FWB, someone who knew me, who actually liked to be with me. And I didn't want things for free - I'd pay like everyone else.

Is that personality type conducive to the hobby? I think not. In the end, all I can see is disappointment and drama. So, in that respect, maybe the 4F's is the easiest way to approach the hobby. Me, I can't do it, which makes me think people like myself maybe should not play here. That's all.

All right now, people...take the gloves off and tell me what you think. I can take it.

I don't get it!! first you say that you cannot do the 4f then you say all you want is FWB "no string" deal...what exactly are you looking for?

This is a P4P world leave the feelings out the door...

I think that there are many of us that feel the same way you do, YR,  for similar or different reasons - looking for more in the hobby than the 4Fs but realizing, all the same, that if we think that we are getting more, it may be an illusion based on a great performance by a talented actress.  On the other hand, maybe feelings of an emotional connect could be genuine.  Why not - I have many friends, and clients in by busines world, that I genuinely care for.  OTOH,  I am still new and learning!

This is my two cents worth based on what I read into your post.

You want your wife back the way she was. You want to feel connected to and loved by the person your bedding. Unfortunately your wife no longer makes you feel that way. I'll take your statement that you tried to work on her lack interest at face value and that your being truthful about that. If this part of your marriage is irrevocably broken for you then the hobby can only act as a poor band-aid for your issues. It will never give the same satisfaction a truly committed relationship with a reciprocating women can provide.

My advice, wait till your kids are grown and then look for someone who will make you happy. Get out of the hobby as the way your playing it will most likely lead to your wife finding out about your activities and then your children loose the secure home they deserve. Am I a hypocrite on this point? Yes, but it doesn't make it any less true.

Optionally, try again to make your wife understand how you feel. Really work on your marriage and try to fix it. It might be simpler then the bullshit you find out in the hobbyist world and ultimately it might actually give you what you seek without the pain of divorce.

I have a genuine FWB who I pay for sessions; but not for OTC stuff. It is fully reciprocal and in various ways she gives back what I give.

It cannot be said that there are "no strings" but what CAN be said is that there are "no romantic strings."

Look -- I hate to break the news to you, but friendship has both benefits and costs. Anyone who is a genuine friend has certain legitimate claims on you and vice versa.The idea of "friend" and "no strings" is contradictory. But a friendship can most certainly have no ROMANTIC strings.

Just remember, your friend is your friend even when she can't book you for sex; and we give our friends priority over women who are not our friends -- right?

Completely achievable IF you seek providers based upon common interests, shared values, etc. A real shot in the dark if you book based on looks and menu.

I sympathize with the OP, as I have similar feelings.  Some additional thoughts:
1) while most hobbyists seem to be in the hobby primarily for sex, and most providers primarily for money,  individual people are both different from each other and often have multiple wants or needs from personal interactions.  (You know, it's interesting that so many people on this Board have a problem with that.  It doesn't bother me that you may be in it just for sex.  Why should it bother you if I'm not? Perhaps you're offended at people kidding themselves.  If so, you must get offended by a lot of stuff.  I personally get offended by anyone intelligent who actually seems to believe that the Laffer curve reflects reality, but that's certainly another story))
2) having a sexual relationship often triggers stong emotional feelings in people, for both cultural and evolutionary/biological reasons.
3)My own needs require an emotional and/or intellectual connection (or at least my "feeling" like there is one) for me to be satisfied
4)Talented providers can and do figure this out, and are good enough actresses to provide the fantasy that the emotional connection exists, whether it does or not..  Sometimes it may actually exist for the provider;sometimes not; sometimes the line may not be completely clear, even in her mind.
5) So I, and it seems the OP, are stuck.   We are paying someone to provide a realistic fantasy experience that we want to believe is not a fantasy, but we know that that's what we're paying for, but we want to believe it, but we know that the lady is certainly a good enough actress to fool us, and so on
6)I think a real clue as to whether the fantasy is somewhat real may be if and when a lady is willing to spend significant time with you off the clock or even provide free sexual services.  Even then, it could just be a marketing strategy.

Sorry, no answers, just sympathy from a Democrat.

I'd recommend the book "His Needs, Her Needs" as a starting spot for exploring where things may  need fixing.

you want true mutual reciprocity of interest, passion, emotion, etc. That's a relationship.

Yes, you can have the experience of this in P4P, but for someone like yourself, this is treacherous territory, which can lead to real entanglements (emotionally and otherwise).

It is also true, as mentioned, that friends have entanglements and constraints, etc. That is why we have relationships. We like the feeling of the interdependence. Relationships go awry when that interdependence gets too lopsided into dependence by one.

There is no way to learn this stuff. You could read it, and someone could tell you, but until you experience it, you have no real way to grok the concept.

I too, feel like I am coming to a place where the hobby has helped me see the crossroads I am at more clearly. That is what life does. Some things accelerate the process, and some slow it down.

I think you too are at a crossroads with your wife and need to decide what's important to you.

Good luck.

We are very similar creatures.  Except, I do not become emotionally attached as easily as you do.  I would not become attached to someone merely because I had sex with them. We wouild have to connect on another level as well.  

As for whether you should hobby...I think not.  Sounds like you are setting yourself, and others, up for some real heartache.  However, the more you do this, the more difficult it can be to stop.  Just look at all the posters inquiring about whether they are "addicted" to the hobby.  Routinely eating the same food  becomes difficult once you've sampled the buffet.  

I say stop while you can, if you can.

that the providers don't get attached emotionally!!! (and end up marrying hobbiest)
The 4 F guys wouldn't have any one to find,feel,fuck,forget!

That was the nicest thing I have ever read from you dear, and I doubt you will ever be a softie, but that sure was a compassionate move on your part and it shed a beautiful light around your digital aura

I agree, the guy needs to find a partner in life, there is no room for emotions in this hobby. But wouldn't it be pretty cool if there was a dating web site for retired providers and hobbyists who were seeking a more long term arrangement with someone who is like minded???

"I just can't follow those 4 F's: Find 'em, Feel 'em, Fuck 'em, Forget 'em"

I think that's perfectly alright; they are human beings after all.  Aim to treat providers with respect, and try to avoid situations in which you suspect exploitation is present; or the other party is harming herself in some way.

On the other hand, from reading your post, I suspect you are looking for something in the hobby that is not
to be found there and it is positive that you recognize that.  I think you already know the answer to your question.

I know of providers who have got the "I have fallen for my client get up" syndrome. Look at OSP and his wife.  Lines can and do get blurred on both sides of the envelope.

FAG!

I swear to God, when I see you you're in for a world of shit!

The first emotion I get is lust.  Then I get excited.  Then I get very very happy.  Then I feel very calm and relaxed.

lol... we should meet. all i do is separate sex from emotion. with the latter, the price is much to high. yes.. higher then the 250/hr.  what can i say, i am jaded.