This a general question to all providers and clients.  Have you seen a difference in service provide due to race of the client?  I was wondering if some of the discrepancies in reviews are due to this issue.  In this day and age most of us believe that there are no racial problems, but that is just not true.  Misconceived perceptions of race concerning hygiene, attitude etc…still exist.  Thoughts?

I have to admit that I was nervous about seeing a student from Japan once. He was a doll. But I don't discriminate. I have clients that are of many races. I really don't care. Being a BBW I find I have more African American clients and that is just fine. Men of colour which include Asian, Hispanic, Middle Eastern, etc seem to respond to be better. I have less white male clients. I find many white men prefer a thinner woman.

Big Beautiful Babe!

I can't say if I have seen a difference, because I can't make any comparison (I am who I am, so I would have no way of knowing if I would have received different service if I were of a different race).

I can say that more than once providers have shown surprise having arrived at my apartment to learn that I was Black. I will never volunteer this information (unless asked, as I have nothing to hide), as I fail to see the relevance, and I completely reject the notion that not doing so means that I am attempting to practice deception. If white men aren't expected to volunteer their ethnic background, why should I?

I can also say, and noted in a previous posts (check 3/27/02 on this board, and 7/22/01 on the New York Board) that there certainly seems to be an EXPECTATION from providers that men of color are somehow different. The latest sentiment (on this board) seems to be that an African American man somehow represents more of a risk for crime. I don't believe that...I stand by my previous comment that I am sure the majority of crimes against ASPs are committed by white men, because the majority of CLIENTS of ASPs are white men, and that with proper screening and baseline criteria that is evenly and fairly applied to all, an ASP is MUCH more safe.

I am a realist however...I know it is a lot to expect people to give up their stereotypes and prejudices, even when THEY are asking for people to not paint THEM in a bad light (i.e., not assuming all ASPs are financially challenged, educationally lacking, drug using losers, despite stereotypes). I also know that people will do whatever it takes to get fed...even lying to themselves. So...since the majority of ASP clients are white, they will never make it a practice to turn away white men, even if Jack The Ripper himself were to make a return. It is easier to label the devil you DON'T know as the boogie man, then count yourself as safe, then it is to accept the inherent risk as a factor of doing business (and of course then take steps to mitigate it in rational, functional ways).

Just my thoughts...


-- Modified on 4/17/2002 12:52:11 PM

Whenever I e mail a provider new to me. I provide my race (white), age, marital status (single) and occupation, and a little bit about the purpose of my visit to her particular city.  I think this is useful to everybody concerned.  I know a whole bunch about her, why can't she know a basic little about me?  This basic courtesy has been beneficial to me EVERY time.

When I started working for the agency, the owner asked me if I'd be willing to see non-white men.  I was a total newbie and was shocked by the question.  OF COURSE I'll see non-white men.  Mind you, I'm in a very rural area and there aren't many men (or women) of color around.  Thus far, I've only seen two men of color--one African American and one Mexican American.  The African American guy asked me--very sweetly and gently--if I'd ever been with a black guy before.  He then told me not to be afraid of him, as he was a big teddy bear, which he indeed was.  I guess some other providers had been afraid of him and had left him in the lurch.  This was very definitely their loss, as this guy is a total sweetie and a FANTASTIC lover.  I mean _I_ forgot I was providing a service, and that's only happened with one other guy.  The Mexican-American was just like any other guy, except he spoke English better than most.

So, as I only have an N=2 as a research population of non-white hobbyists, I can't really speak with any authority.  But, I don't see any difference.

Love to All,
Anne

You actually know very little about her, and that is by design....

You know what she looks like...presumably.

ASPs are notorious for telling little white lies about things like age, marital status (ok, not so much as to whether or not they are married, but as to if they are involved with someone seriously), and occupation (outside of the hobby of course). Every dancer or escort I have gotten to know well (including the couple dancers I have dated) has told me they lie about these things in order that:

A) Their clients can continue the "fantasy"...for some reason it is better for them to think that they are spending time with a 22 year old single college girl, rather than a 26 yo mother with a serious BF.

B) Simply to protect their privacy

Insofar as what you DO know...what they look like...I fail to understand how what *I* look like matters. This is a BUSINESS transaction. If I were looking to be judged on my looks, I would go back to scoring at bars. I am PAYING FOR IT. What I do for a living, what I look like, whether or not I am married, is all irrelevant. I am Safe, Clean, and My Money Is Green. What else matters???

Now...I am not oblivious to the realities of human relationships. Things do go better for all involved if BOTH parties for comfortable with the other. And for what it is worth, I have had more than one ASP tell me I was handsome, behaved like a gentleman, and they were very glad to have had the opportunity to spend time with me. As I mentioned, I have actually formed fairly short-lived relationships (dating) with ASPs (dancers) in the past that I have met (and I wasn't playing "sugar daddy"...). I have also had escorts make "gentle" inquires into seeing me again away from the hobby. I am sure that the information they came to learn about me...the information you share upfront...has played a role in this. What I do for a living is interesting, and on some level demonstrates that I am not quite as dumb as a fish...I am not married, and thus "available" on some level (not saying that they are looking to marry, but I am sure it is just less stressful to date single guys versus married guys)...and I am somewhere between too young to know better and too old to care (Late 30's...not quite out to pasture, yet mature enough to be and act like an adult).

HOWEVER...none of these things...not a one (save perhaps age) should have ANYTHING to do with whether or not an ASP takes me on as a client. I am not saying she can't have her rules, whatever they are. I am just saying that my race is irrelevant.

BTW...Your occupation and your reasoning for coming to town sound like valid screening questions to me...just not valid "assessment" questions, in the same order as race. Insofar as marital status...what is up with that? You think that really matters?


-- Modified on 4/18/2002 9:03:43 AM

In many things... the *attitude* of the gentleman in question is the most important thing. How does he feel about doing this, is he ashamed of himself? *sigh*  Is he excited and happy? Is he super stiff and nervous?  How does he treat me? These are the questions that matter, and they have absolutely nothing to do with race, color, religion or any other stereotyping categorization that I have seen.

Hugs*
Nicole

I'm with Nicole,

I have seen all sizes, shaped, ages, and races. No I still haven't seen a black Client yet but I won't turn him down either because he's black.  Whats important is *attitude* and how he will treat me.


Just my 2cents,

RED

Even though the instances have been fairly low, I have experienced situations where when trying to contact a provider over the phone, she will ask me what my race is. The minute I say I am African American, they excuse themselves and indicate they only see white clients. Every time that situation occured, the lady in question was very rude. In a matter of a one minute conversation she made an assessment about me. Being that I am in the South, I guess had made me sort of numb to such reactions. Being denied service because of the color of my skin, unfortunately is nothing new to me.

Here is the kicker. There have been times when I've tried to schedule with African American women and have been denied because they asked and I indicated that I was an African American. Sometimes I'll call back after I've been hung up on to one express how rude that was and to ask why her view is what it is. No so much to change her mind because the minute I was hung up on, I lost all interest in spending my hard earned money with her service. But at times a part of me wants to know why a woman of the same race would exhibit such hate to one of her own. I've heard the spectrum of bull from:

1)"I'm a small lady and black guys are too big"
2)"You may get too possessive and think more of the experience than what it is".
3) "I have a private life and I don't want to risk running into you someplace else".

I know, you can stop laughing now but honest to God, I've heard these excuses.

I've had this conversation with a good friend of mine who is a provider and she told me that some lady's, black or white, feel safer and more comfortable being with white males. She said that for the most part the lady's who have that view have bought into the negative stereotype that the media puts out concerning black males.

From the lady's point of view, security is the number one priority. Some of them think that a middle aged, white male is a easier, safer, possible repeat client than a black male. Its funny because the profile for most sociopath serial killers is that middle aged white male.

If this was a perfect world, we all would judged on our merrits as a human being. Unfortunately this is America and race is still a factor in human interactions. To be honest I would respect a lady more if she told me up front that she is just not comfortable seeing men of color. At least that is honest and I can spend my money on someone who appreciates my company and business. What is the worst is if a lady does see you, and you can tell by her vibe or reaction when she meets me that she did not know I was black, yet still goes through with the session but is so uptight that it is bad for both. This happened to me as well. The lady was jumping at every sound in the apartment, and it was HER place LOL. After about 15 minutes I knew what the problem was and excused myself. The lady was so releived but I think she was shocked by the way I conducted myself and not going off. Her comment was "I wish I would have known you were such a gentleman". Well she did, after the fact. Maybe her mind will be a little more open to the next man of color who tries to see her.

I was told when I started this line of work most women would not take black clients. I said why??? Do they use a different kind of money?  Like I said above, I have quite a few regular African American clients and I adore them. And I have never run into a problem, ever!!! I do have one guy who wants me as his girlfriend but it will not happen. He understands now.

Not to say that there are problem people, but with screening and good judgement, no one should worry or discriminate ever.

I have never had a provider make any inquiries about my race on the phone or in email.

I have a few notions to input on the racial issue. Its ALWAYS controversial and its expectation to fire people up is inevitable.

I agree with LifeAsMe. A clients physical appearance is or should be irrelevant. You ARE paying for it and looks shouldnt be an issue. However, I have had many clients volunteer sending pictures of themselves or giving me a detailed description of what they look like. I even had one provider in particular (she was african-american or black....whatever is politically correct *sigh*)ask me what race the client was AND what he looked like. I thought, Damn! what a prima donna! Biz must be REAL good for her. Frankly, I dont care what a client looks like. As long as he isnt smelly! (my pet peve) Sure, it would be nice if all you guys looked like Brad Pitt but, in the real world, its not perfect. Which Brad Pitt is, physically anyway. I actually asked the provider who was inquiring about the client why was this relevant to her. I never got an answer.

I recently was a little suprised to meet a client in a very posh resort. Extremely intelligent, well-spoken and classy. He was a sensitive and soft-spoken gentlemen that I was very impressed with. When he opened the door to his room, I saw a black man. I USED to have a sexual predjudice about this. I was sexually assaulted by a black man when I was younger so, of course I have established stereo-typed and prejudiced all black men on a sexual level. Had the client |sounded black| on the phone, I would have not agreed to meet with him. He completely broke my fear and pre-conceptions of what a black man is on many levels. I found him most charming and alot more of a gentlemen than many white guys I have encountered. Would I see a black man again? Hell yes! Does it matter what he looks like? Hell no!

Now, I have re-directed my anxiety toward middle-eastern men. Dont even get me started!

Im sure some of you will think Im a bigot or prejudice after reading this post. And, thats o.k. too. I speak my mind and empower my feelings. I dont mean or intend to insult anyone. As, I love ALL men and people in general. I may not be politically correct but, I dont give a damn about that silliness anyway.....

late..
Carol

Okay...I'm numbering my points but it's all the same story.

1. I had a WONDERFUL new client this week. He is from Italy and in the cutest broken english he explained to me that being with a black woman was his life long fantasy.

I was VERY flattered that he had a sincere desire to be with me, that I was the shape and shade he'd dreamed about all of his life. Let me tell you...in America I'm not always a "Fantasy Girl". The standard American male fantasy is "blonde hair, blue eyes, fake boobs". I look NOTHING like that. I'm "attractive" (more CUTE than pretty) and "voluptuous" (or "thick" as my race likes to refer to my frame). In an earlier thread someone said that White American Males tend to prefer a thinner woman...I find this to be true. So true in fact that I do "Tae Bo" daily.

2. So we begin our appointment and he just "WORSHIPS" my body. He just "inhaled" me (I hope that makes sense) and he was so emotional about it (those passionate Italians!)...I was sincerely touched.

I'm no fool. I know (and it does bother me) that when a gentleman is selecting a provider I am often the LAST CHOICE (or one of the last choices). The reasons I get new appointments range from: my price was low enough, other providers he actually made appointments with canceled on him, no one else was available and I actually picked up the phone. Sad but true. What I "do" know is that those reasons are not why they come back for more. I have "regulars" who have been visiting me for as long as a year. I'm Sexy, Sensual, Sweet and Smart...that is why they come back.

3. When our visit was done we actually lay in eachother's arms and talked on a personal level. We talked about everything under the sun and we were truthful and sincere with eachother. He let me have a glimpse into his life, and I let him have a glimpse into my life.

American guys dont care about me...I'm some black chick...what could I possibly have to say that is of interest to them? They get up, put on their clothes and practically kill themselves running for the door...God forbid they should be seen leaving the company of a "black" woman.

4. I had a wonderful and "rare" experience with this new client.
Being sincerely desired doesnt happen often enough.

------------------------------------------------------

I remember seeing an article in the mid 80's in a Sales Magazine titled "The Darkening Of The Industry". I thought to myself, wow is it an economic problem or something like that? So I read the article. The "Darkening" of the industry was an article warning that more Black's and Mexican's were being employed in the Sales industry. I WAS OUTRAGED! I thought to myself...they might as well have titled that article" "The N*****'s are coming, The N****r's are coming! What was the difference?

The Media makes me angry also. ANGEL KELLY is one of my HERO'S! She was one of the first BLACK women in the porn industry who had a "contract". She did some of the first Black Female/White Males scenes in the industry. She REFUSED to play the maid or the "other girl"...SHE WAS THE STAR! She opened the door for "Domonique Simone" and every black female who has come after her.

Until then the only images of black women in our industry were "trash talking, funky walking, dope fiend street walkers".
I actually have written on my bio page that "I've never worked the street"...I wrote it because I know they are wondering to themselves if I am a "crack ho". AAAAHHHHHGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'ts beyond sad.

Black providers are subjected to the "rudest" questions such as: "Do you have any diseases? How many kids do you have? $300 are you kidding....Can I get a discount?

A. I DONT have any diseases
B. I DONT have any children
C. $300 is a fair price...I'm worth it! And can you have a discount?...HELL NO! "And" I'm offended that you asked!

I dont mind giving discounts but LET ME OFFER IT, dont expect a siscount just because I'm black and you dont think I deserve the rate I'm asking.

I seriously doubt ANY white provider would be asked those questions. We have about a dozen TOP FEMALE BLACK PROVIDERS in this industry and more are following. "You Go Girls!" You "keep on keeping on" and thank you for making it a little easier for us "little guys".

What is it in our society that cant believe that all black PEOPLE are not these crack head junkies we see on tv. What is it that makes them so suprised that I am a good, honest, intelligent and wonderful DRUG FREE person?

What?

Sable
xoxo





-- Modified on 4/18/2002 9:29:50 PM

Over the years I have seen a variety of discriminatory escort ads.  White escorts who don't want to see black men, black escorts who don't want to see black men, white escorts who prefer black men, black escorts who prefer black men, escorts who only want to see in shape young men(i.e. not fat older men allowed), older escorts who only want to see older men, white escorts who only want to see Japanese men, etc.  In terms of sheer numbers the group most discriminated against is overweight people of both sexes.  We are never going to completely get rid of the various types of discriminations.  When looking for an escort if it is apparent that I do not meet her criterion I just keep looking.  I am not going to try to cure her prejudice and it is just too expensive to spend money on having a bad time if I can avoid it.

Sable,I'm a  middle age white, and for all the years I've been involved as a hobbiest I find black women are more sensual, it has nothing to do with race.. Reviews and past experiance will dictate who I see.. If I was in Las Vegas I would come to see you for a couple of reasons..

1) You look good..

2) But most importantly Your smart, I like the things you say, and you have an opinion on just about everything, and you make sense..

Thats a good thing...

Well said........but I have a problem.....it is pretty unlikely that I will be able to generate much of the way of a client base for MY services in Palm Springs in order that I might partake of YOUR services....  

I could work on it though...

Thanks for sharing your perspective...BTW, not that you care about my opinion, but I would not call fear / prejudice in regard to something as personal as a sexual encounter racist if it is based on an actual experience, such as what you had. This only makes you human. It isn't scientifically LOGICAL (one Black man does not define ALL Black men no more than one escort who rips offs cleints define all escorts) but we are ALL merely human in our thoughts / feelings / fears and emotions. What you went through is NOT the same as responding to some "boogy man" rumor...or just being predisposed based on media driven stereotypes.

Let's see...that's Minneapolis, Orlando, and Now Palm Springs...I better get to work on generating some leads....

Is it just me that likes an all natural woman, who project a down to earth vibe?

I agree with everything in your post...and I have to admit that I DID laugh when I read those reasons for not seeing you from African American providers...

I have never had to deal with a provider telling me that they wouldn't see me because I was Black...I suppose that is one reason why I would never tell unless asked...but I can imagine the sting of those words. I know how I feel every time I read a providers web page that conveys that message.

Sometimes I wonder if people who don't think of themselves as racist (because how many people would really admit to being racist?) realize the pain and hurt they cause when they are so blatantly prejudiced and ignorant? You would think that women, who periodically suffer discrimination (at least in some circles), would be empathetic. You would especially think ESCORTS, who SURELY know the burden of having people pre judge ("prejudice" by definition) and hold negative stereotypes without merit, and without bothering to get to know a person as an individual, would be more open minded.

But, like you said, changing minds is a difficult thing to do.

"What is the worst is if a lady does see you, and you can tell by her vibe or reaction when she meets me that she did not know I was black, yet still goes through with the session but is so uptight that it is bad for both."

This was EXACTLY my concern a year ago when I first started in the "hobby", and was why I originally posted on the New York board regarding this topic back in July. This is the WORSE case scenario. Like you, I have had escorts arrive at my apartment and demonstrate CLEAR (if unspoken) surprise to find I was African American. Things (so far) have always worked out, probably because I honestly do try to provide a pleasant experience / environment for the date...Jazz music, drinks, candles. When combined with my address (I live in an upscale part of the city) and the decor of my apartment (every person who has come to visit has made comment), I suppose the ladies are comfortable that I am not a gangbanging thug who is going to beat them up and steal their money.


But what if I were just an average guy, with an average job, and some money to spend? Like many (if not most) of their white clients? Would they still be so at ease? And, what if I were to do incall, and didn't have my fancy address-neighborhood / apartment / stereo system along with me to prove my creditability? How would things go then?

And the debate goes on...but thank you VERY much for your very intelligent perspective and insights....

"but with screening and good judgement, no one should worry or discriminate ever."

Thank you....this is ALL I have been trying to say.....

I am not saying ASPs should see EVERY Black man who calls them. If someone gives you the creeps...for WHATEVER REASON, then by all means blow them off. Careful CONSISTENT screening on VALID criteria will protect an escort from harm much better than simply deceding to not see men of color.

But the "rules" for screening should be the same for EVERYBODY. If a provider is willing to see blue collar white guys who seem to be willing and able to conduct themselves as gentlemen, their should NOT be a higher hurdle for African American clients. As I stated above, what if I didn't have the benefit of a college education, a six figure income, and a fancy Manhattan address in a doorman building (who screens MY visitors as well, thank you very much)? Would that make me a different person, and less worthy of obtaining services with my hard earned cash?

wow...I do appreciete the feedback from so many.  Personally I have not had a problem, but a few providers are shocked when they meet me.  LOL I don't sound "Black" on the phone, so I am seldom asked.  This topic was just a random thought as I was selecting a new provider...I want the experience beneficial for both parties and that happens if there are not other underlying issues. Finally thank you for the information

just like the guy searching thru the provider ads..you guys have the luxury of choosing the 'type' you are going to be intimate with, by looking at photos. In general, Im not sexually attracted to certain physical types. Unfortunately (or fortunately Im not everyone's 'type', but I wouldnt blame anyone or call anyone racist just because Im not their physical preference. Is the guy searching for a white provider being racist against other ethnic groups because he is in general attracted to white girls to be intimate with..? Just because the guy is paying doesnt mean we providers shouldnt have preferences and be able to choose and have some control who we are intimate with..this is about an hour or two of intimacy with a stranger,based on physical attraction ...there isnt much get-to -know-you time..

-- Modified on 4/19/2002 11:49:29 AM

Exactly, as this is a very intimate business and personal preferences must be respected.  In a previous thread on the same topic I said that I thought a provider may decline to see a client, and a client may decline to contact a provider, for a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason at all.

"just like the guy searching thru the provider ads...you guys have the luxury of choosing the 'type' you are going to be intimate with, by looking at photos. "


I have that right because I am paying, just as you have a right to chose whomever you'd like to provide services for you (to do your hair & nails, clean your home, etc. You DON'T have the right to chose to not see me based on criteria other than those which you feel might put you at risk or harm your business just as your hair dresser cannot ethically decide to stop doing your hair because you are blonde (or brunette or whatever). It is just ignorance at best, racism at worse, and for you to call it anything else is just fooling yourself.

"In general, I'm not sexually attracted to certain physical types."

That stop mattering the moment you decided to take men’s money for sex. That point has already been covered in other posts. If you haven't reconciled this fact with yourself, it is your personal decision of course, but I would suggest that an escort who feels she is standing on an ethical leg if she decides to judge her clients on physical appearance and how attracted she is to them has lost perspective just as much as a client who is foolish enough to become emotionally attached to an escort.

"Unfortunately (or fortunately Im not everyone's 'type', but I wouldnt blame anyone or call anyone racist just because Im not their physical preference."

Physical body preferences when of a client who is purchasing intimacies is not even the 4th cousin to discrimination on the part of a provider based on race. It's HIS fantasy...he is paying for it. He gets to pick whatever type of girl he wants (do I need to use the hairdresser analogy again?).

"Just because the guy is paying doesnt mean we providers shouldnt have preferences and be able to choose and have some control who we are intimate with.."

I never said that...I just said that those choices shouldn't be based on race. I understand the safety thing, and a provider should be in a situation that makes them GENUINELY feel unsafe. But to discriminate on physical characteristics because you have "preferences" is just unprofessional, and to do so based on race is RACIST (maybe I should distribute dictionaries to everyone....)

"this is about an hour or two of intimacy with a stranger, based on physical attraction ...there isn’t much get-to -know-you time.. "

It is based on physical attraction for the client...not the provider. The provider gets PAID for her services...that is the transaction. The guy gets a good time, the girl gets paid. If the girl gets a good time, bonus...but for you to EXPECT anything other than a guy to be clean, punctual and reasonably polite is a DATE...a REAL DATE...not an intimate encounter for money.

BTW...why do you need to "get to know" someone? And...given the same amount of time for all clients (an hour or two), what makes you think you will know someone white so much better than someone Black after this time has passed?

You can keep dressing it up as a "preference" thing all you'd like...it is no different than if next time you went to get a body massage (an intimate act as well) at an upscale spa and the masseur said to you "Sorry...I believe you are an escort...I simply am not comfortable servicing you"

Sometimes when Im not physically attracted to someone, after I get to know them, that changes ..
 BTW..lets turn the tables..have you ever been with a 500 lb escort? If not then your biased against over weight people..my point is..she may not be the person you prefer, but after chatting with her that could change..
  And who in the hell are you to say that  physical attraction is on the clients side only? You sound very self centered(AKA..chances are you're a lame fuck), its NOT ALL about YOU, just because YOU pay.. I want to enjoy the time too, I like certain types.. I run the show..its  MY time, MY body and its on MY terms, tough shit if you dont think MY terms are acceptable, call me what you will, I sleep very well at night...I think your ego is to huge to accept the fact that a women isnt attracted to you physically..and wont(cant) fake it for money.
 

-- Modified on 4/18/2002 7:27:45 PM

Have you ever had a black client?

The gentleman and I discussed this topic and he said it was cool with him, he said he understood because he generally liked to be with white women.
  Im very, very seldom physically attracted to black men....this does not make a person racist. Again, some male egos cant handle a female not being attracted to them.


-- Modified on 4/18/2002 10:49:23 PM

Not trying to make a point or start a flame war,  but just wanted to know if you had ever had a black client.

I am an equal opportunity kind of girl, I have to disagree with you MyLife, and I think you and I usually do agree.  

First of all let me speak at least for myself in saying that I am here to have fun too! I am not doing this to make myself miserable, to endure situations that SUCK all the way around. I enjoy myself a great deal, or I am here to tell you that regardless of how much money I make, I WOULD NOT BE HERE. So please stop saying my enjoyment doesn't matter, because it does... and honestly I'm willing to guess that with all of us we have certain "somethings" that are huge turn offs and make the session less pleasant.  I do not enjoy EVERYONE I meet and I would be lying if I said I did... but I do enjoy MOST, the vast majority, because usually I can find something there that makes ME happy and fulfills me. I am a selfish girl, what can I say? It just so happens that my brand of selfishness involves pleasing others... I get off on it.  I may not be able to weed out in advance those whom I won't enjoy, because my enjoyment factors are really based on things that can't be written down and explained... but I can make sure I don't see that person again... regardless of if he has the money or not!

Ok that made me mad, telling me that I don't matter and I have to take all comers regardless. I do not! Now I am an equal opportunity kind of girl, as I told you... I do not say "I won't see black men," or hispanic men, or WHATEVER race/color/religion/whatever, you want to put in there. HOWEVER... if I wanted to, I would! This is not serving dinner in a resteraunt honey, and I very much doubt if *MOST* of those ladies who say "I won't see black men as clients" have any problems being around black men in other contexts. This is a very specific thing here and of course they are entitled to choose whom they allow to pay them.  Please don't forget that  being allowed to see us, regardless of the fact that you pay, IS a priviledge.  It is not OUR DUTY to lay on a mattress, open the door, and say "OK, whoever has X amount of dollars, come on in!" (Altho, hey... s'kind of a hot fantasy... hmmmm!)  

Anyways, MyLife... PLEASE do not try to take choices away from women... yanno, legislation has been trying to do that for EONS and has never succeeded. The bottom line is regardless of what rules anyone sets up, women are going to make their own choices in regards to their own bodies, period! And that is indeed their right. Whether or not my personal preferences agree with those of someone else, isn't relevant... I would NEVER presume to tell someone who they MUST allow to touch them or spend intimate time with them.

Please do not think I don't sympathize with those gentlemen who've been turned down for what I feel is a silly reason... (That is MY preference, I cannot force it on anyone else!) I do sympathize with them a great deal. It is an unfortunate fact... it is certainly not going to go away... and if they keep looking, they will find someone, like me, who would be happy to make their fantasies come true.

Hugs*
Nicole

but as far as I am concerned, the escort does have the right express her preferences in regards to with whom she chooses to have intimate relations. In this country, I/we engage the services of an escort for her time and companionship only, correct. In this respect she should not discriminate against any one who does not pose a threat to her. However, it is her decision, as well as yours, as to with whom she has consensual intimate relations. So when I see an ad for an escort who expresses preferences, I use it as a guide for how I should engage someone for companionship which I hope may go further if we are compatible. Now whether or not this is good for her professionally is a whole different matter. Just because you hire an escort, you do not have an implicit right to have her do whatever you wish. JMHO

pt

"AKA…chances are you're a lame fuck"

Actually, I'm a GREAT fuck, as has been posted here already, (and not by myself) but that is neither here nor there...

"have you ever been with a 500 lb escort"

Only someone who is delusional would think that comparing the differences between a physical healthy person and a 500 lbs woman is the same as two men, one white, one Black. Try to use logic in your debates...it helps...

"If not then your biased against over weight "

Actually, if you have read my posts, you'd know that A) I am somewhat over weight myself and B) I actually tend to favor a "healthier" woman...I have posted now SEVERAL times in response to ladies who included links about themselves, which I followed only to discover a size 10, 12, 14 woman...."my type". Many hobbyist would consider such a woman overweight...I consider her very womanly. To say that I am "biased against over weight" because I would not date a 500lbs escort only embarrasses you by displaying your lack of ability to logically reason and make a valid point.

"  And who in the hell are you to say that  physical attraction is on the clients side only? "

Actually I didn't QUITE say that, but I get you point. However, since some of the more reasonably minded (and apparently more logically minded) ladies here have already agreed with me that how attractive the provider finds the client should not be a factor in the experience, I will just leave you to stand in the corner and wail on your own.

"I think your ego is to huge to accept the fact that a women isnt attracted to you physically..and wont(cant) fake it for money."

This has nothing to do with my ego, and everything to do with unfair treatment. If it were just about my ego, I could suave it by crawling back in bed with my GF and having sex with her again this afternoon (she left work early to spend some "quality time" with me...because I'm such a lousy fuck...lol). All the points I have made have been for the benefit of Black Men as a group...as I stated previously (try reading the posts, huh?) I PERSONALLY have never been turned away from an Escort, for race or any other reason. This isn't about ME, as a person...I get all the sex I want from GF, EX-GFs, and providers when I chose to see them (there are a couple who contact me on a periodic basis...again, I am sure because I am such a lousy fuck). It is about a principle.

"I sleep very well at night..."

I am glad you do, as do I. I feel very good about myself, what I do for a living, and my relationship with ALL people, independent of their race. No need on my part to make declarations about "my time and my body"...I am very clear on those things, how they are used, and whom I share them with. It sounds like you are trying to convince yourself of the same...I wish you well.


-- Modified on 4/19/2002 2:07:24 PM

-- Modified on 4/19/2002 3:38:23 PM

"Ok that made me mad, telling me that I don't matter and I have to take all comers regardless."

Ok...again...I didn't SAY that. What I said was:

"I am not saying ASPs should see EVERY Black man who calls them. If someone gives you the creeps...for WHATEVER REASON, then by all means blow them off. Careful CONSISTENT screening on VALID criteria will protect an escort from harm much better than simply deceding to not see men of color."

"So please stop saying my enjoyment doesn't matter, because it does... "

I never said THAT either. What I said was that YOUR sexual attraction to the client was not so much the issue as his attraction to YOU. I am SURE you have seen clients that you would not have dated in your personal life because they weren't "your type". But...you are an escort...so guys come to you who might not be the most handsome / attractive / whatever. And I bet MANY of them turned out to be FINE GENTLEMEN. And perhaps you do enjoy your time. I certainly consider it my duty to show any woman who shares herself with me a good time, be they an escort or not, and I think all providers I have been with would say they were "ok" with things...hence their desire to see me again.  I am not an idiot (contray to any impression I am making...lol), I know the better time YOU have, the better time I will have, which is why I always conduct myelf as a gentleman, place candles, play Jazz, send ladies home in a car - (a big deal here in NYC). My point was that the PRIORITY is that you show the client a good time...he isn't there to show you one (not saying he won't or that he isn't endeavoring to do so...like I said, I always endeavor to do so). The transaction is...he pays, you show him a good time. And your "sexual attraction" should not play in that equation (note: "sexual attraction" is not the same as "enjoy myself")

"This is not serving dinner in a resteraunt honey, and I very much doubt if *MOST* of those ladies who say "I won't see black men as clients" have any problems being around black men in other contexts. "

This is one of the many ways white people smooth over there steretypes, prejudces and hypocrisy. "No, I don't want any Black members at my country club, but I don't have a problem hiring them", and similar BS. I can't even begin to debate this one here...this perspective is simply a luxury of being white..the ability to pick and chose when you want to be open minded...when you wish to discriminate. Suffice to say that...nah...never mind. You would never understand.

"It is an unfortunate fact... it is certainly not going to go away... and if they keep looking, they will find someone, like me, who would be happy to make their fantasies come true."

I understand your point, but as I have said before, if people had simply said "Well, I can find another neighboorhood to live in, I can find another means for getting to work, I can find another place to have dinner" then we would not have made the progress we have made to date.

I will try to summarize my point, because I feel it has been distorted in the emotions (undoubtedly some of those emotions belonging to me)...

A provider should have WHATEVER rules she sees fit for seeing WHOMEVER she'd like to see....so long as those rules are applied EQUALLY to ALL MEN, regardless of race. Race....in and of itself (RACE ALONE...) is NOT a valid reason for not seeing a client. Don't tell me your aren't "attached to Black men"...you see clients all the time you aren't attracted to. Don't tell me "Black men are more dangereous"...I defy anyone to prove to me more crimes were commit against ASPs by Black men versus white men. Just be woman enough to admit you are prejudce, and leave it at that....

-- Modified on 4/20/2002 4:46:17 AM

I guess anyone that doesnt agree with you is either a 'racist' or not 'logically minded'(snicker,snicker').You're making this a race issue when its about personal physical preference..You've never been turned away by an escort? Id kick your ass out so hard and so fast and hard my stilettos would would be lodged in your intestines..not for race issues but your closed minded, asinine, self serving, 'logic', your ego is way too large to reason with..my final words on this topic.

MyLife, FWIW, I AGREE with your philosophy.  But I do NOT think this is the same thing as a country club. =:O Honest, I just don't see it that way, but our perspectives are COMPLETELY different. For whatever reason, there are some ladies who choose not to see black men... what are you gonna do honey, hold 'em down and force 'em to? Your words provoke thought and that is good and you are entitled to judge someone who makes that choice in whatever way you see fit... but it's not going to change them, if anything it just makes them defensive and angry (as you may've seen in some of the posts on this board!).  You know, if someone makes that choice, do you think it's someone you'd want to be with ANYway??? Probably not methinks, and you are chafing at the "rule" because it is a general principal and it bugs you. I hear ya... you're right, I can "never understand," I'm not black, but if you say that I cannot empathize with your feelings, you're wrong and being pigheaded, so quit it... or maybe I'll spank YOU instead o' vice versa when we meet.  

FWIW, the longest relationship I ever had was with a black man and of all of my ex's, he's the only one I'm still on speaking terms with.  I have been pulled over for no other crime (not even speeding) then driving out of Georgetown in DC with a black man in my car and watched in sick amazement as the cop asked for his ID and then pulled a gun on him when he reached into his pocket to get it.  I sat thru lectures where my grandfather (kind soul but OH so ignorant) explained earnestly to me that black people all have aids... among other things!  So I've seen a lil' bit of discrimination first hand and while I can never walk in your shoes, I can tell you that I have felt sick and disgusted enough when confronted with attitudes like those firsthand.

But you can't live in my shoes either, and I am here to tell you, that altho I do not choose my clients based on race or any other aspect of appearance, I would stand up for my right to do that if I so chose. If I chose to only accept appointments from blonde, buff, six foot four white guys... well I'd prolly starve  LOL But that is MY choice to make, not yours.  And since you CANNOT make that choice for me (or anyone else) why bother jumping up and down and screaming about it?

This is not the same thing as segregation of public facilities, country clubs, resteraunts... it's just NOT the same thing. We are talking about individuals here with feelings, prejudices (YES), tastes, and hangups that all individuals have. But CHOICE is paramount... would you tell a single 20 something woman NOT in the 'biz that she MUST date black men as well as white men in seeking her life partner, or she's a racist? Would you try to force that choice on her? I can't imagine anyone even suggesting such a thing. Don't people sort of get attracted to... PEOPLE? In their own way, and time?  

And isn't it ironic that I am NOT one of those providers who won't see black men, yet I'll stand up for their right to do so? Hey, more fun for me Now I think I'll go check out that awesome blacks on blondes website and relax a lil' okies? hehe!

Hugs*
Nicole

This is one of the myriad of reasons why I don't do escort. Commitments aside, I simply could not have sex with someone I was not acquainted with and wasn't attracted to at least on a basic level.

I've always admired the idea of a prostitute that sees men who may not get laid otherwise: the disabled men, the elderly men, the homely or the morbidly obese. It seems selfless and giving that a woman would spend time with him, cuddle him, caress him and make him feel good about himself, even if it does cost him money. This is one of the reasons I enjoy being a nurse (well, still a student nurse) and a masseuse) - not just for the money because lord knows for all the schooling nurses go through they aren't that highly paid) - but they help and heal people. That appeals to me. That is one of reasons I became a dominatrix. I felt good being able to help people get out their weird fetishes without freaking out their wives and girlfriends. I felt like I was making a difference by performing this service.

Anyway, I used to have a romantic idea of the prostitute being the kind of woman who wants to help people feel good and give them love and affection, even for just a short while. That gives a certain selflessness to the role of prostitute, sort of a Florence Nightengale type of role which I found appealing.

However, it seems some of the escorts here want to not only have money for having sex with a client but beyond the normal expectations of clean, polite and respectful, they also want to find him attractive as well. That definitely takes some of the shine off the halo, doesn't it? However, I am not them, they are not me so I cannot speak for others regarding their motivations.

But I must agree with the other ladies on one point: no matter *what* their reasons for refusing service to someone, it is their right. I very much enjoyed all those years I spent working in strip bars. Instead of feeling demeaned as most people told me I would, I felt incredibly empowered. I didn't *have* to dance for anyone if I didn't want to. Apart from my duties on the stage rotation, I was a free spirit, able to take breaks when I wanted, talk to who I wanted, dance for who I wanted, etc. I imagine many of the ladies here feel the same way and again that is their right.

BUT  - you are right that saying discriminating against someone just because of their skin color is wrong. However it is their right to do so and no amount of protests from you can change that. There is no affirmative action for hobbyists! But you can rest assured, there are plenty of providers out there who don't care what you look like and will give you top quality service whether you are black, white, old, young, fat, thin, etc. I am one of them, it would never occur to me to ask what someone looks like, it makes no difference to me in the quality of the massage or the bdsm session. Cute or well-endowed guys don't get any "extras", conversely unnattractive ones don't get shorted. As long as you are nice, clean and you're money's green (as you said before) that's good enough for me.

MM


-- Modified on 4/20/2002 12:47:58 PM

This ia actually a topic I thought about asking, but haven't had the time to put in words. I have wondered about the same thing, whether most providers care about race or not. And of course this topic interests me because one, I am Asian, and two, I prefer seeing White providers.
I have to say personally that no one has ever asked me what ethnicity I am when I call. However, I did have one or two providers who seem surprised when I showed up. They told me they couldn't tell on the phone I was Asian. Sometimes I can't tell whether their business-like attitude comes from the fact I am not White, or if that's just how they are as providers. I am always curious.
However, I do know "preference" does exist. Living in Southern California, it is a huge melting pot out here. Once I had a provider telling me that if she could tell on the phone a client is Black or Hispanic, she would not see them. And if she couldn't tell, and they showed up at the door, she would go through the motion, finish what she has to do asap, and then send him home. Her best friend, who was also a provider, was robbed at gun point by 2 Hispanic guys once who pretended to be clients. So it is hard for me to blame her. While I believe race should not be an issue, I also understand if a girl chooses not to see me because of my race. To me, this is a little more than "hairdresser" situation. After all, you are being intimate with someone! I am sure I am discriminated against sometimes because there are times I never get emails back from providers. I do have my full name on my email address and it is pretty easy to see I am Asian. I do agree with most girls that it is how you treat them that matters. I am often asked to call them back and see them again and they even offer me discounts sometime. And no, I am not extremely wealthy, just a middle class guy with a little extra money to spend. But living in LA, with so many selections, I don't usually take girls up on the offer. (except for one or two) I do believe, in most cases, if you treat the girls right, they will want you back!
The biggest thing to me that has to do with race/ethnicity is the fact I get "Oh, you are kinda thick" as if I was expected to be small for being Asian!! That bothers me, but yet it makes me feel good when I hear that!! Haha.
Alright, just few of my thoughts Any comments?

"I guess anyone that doesnt agree with you is either a 'racist' ..."

No...anyone who makes decision about other people based on race is a racist. Geez...you make this too easy....

"or not 'logically minded'(snicker,snicker')."

No, anyone who would equate a physical healthy versus a 500lbs woman as analogous to comparing a Black man versus a white man is not logically minded. You might note that my responses have not been of the same tone to those other providers who used reason in their arguement.

"You're making this a race issue when its about personal physical preference"

No... The THREAD was about race issues, if you recall. Keep up now...

BTW...I stand by my point..."physical peference" when the only factor is race is just a euphimism for racism. Not liking the label doesn't make it not true.

"Id kick your ass out so hard and so fast and hard my stilettos would would be lodged in your intestines.."

Well why don't you provide a link so we can all see what you look like, then...just for grins, I will let you know if you'd ever get a chance...

"not for race issues but your closed minded, asinine, self serving, 'logic', your ego is way too large to reason with"

Actually, I think you are the one who is closed minded. You are defining the right to not see someone simply based on race...not becase they are a bad person, or they gave you a bad vibe, or ANYTHING ELSE...just race. Seems pretty closed minded to me. If having a problem with that makes me all the things you ascribe to me...then sign me up.

"..my final words on this topic."

Let's hope so...you are not giving the best possible account for yourself...at least as a person capable of defending a point with reason and logic.

-- Modified on 4/20/2002 5:06:37 PM

BTW...did I mention, DAYUM you are fine!! (Gawd I love sexy, healthy woman...)

"I also have a big round rear end, and am cleanly shaven."

Ok...the sound you hear is me whimpering like a baby.....lol.

I *DO* have clients in DC, so just break it to me now...if you get an inquiry from me, will I get to see you?

Ok...back to the topic...

"But I do NOT think this is the same thing as a country club."

Agreed. But I (no one on this side of the fence) can allow the line to be drawn by the one doing the discriminating. "Ok...up until this point things can be fair, but "we" reserve the right to discriminate within THIS domain. I can't do it, because I am certain EVERY OTHER line that has been crossed and barrier broken was done of the objections of people who thought it was "going too far".

"Now I think I'll go check out that awesome blacks on blondes website"

You're teasing me, aren't you? You are teasing me, hoping my head explodes...

You know there are a dozen shuttle flight NYC to DC everyday??

Just say when babe....

"what are you gonna do honey, hold 'em down and force 'em to?"

Nope...and BTW...do you promise to call me honey when we get together, IF we get together?

"Your words provoke thought and that is good "

That is my intent. I know very few if any minds will be changed (a racist mind is not one that is likely to listen to reason...how could you be a logical fair minded person AND a racist?). But it will provoke thought. BTW...if you recall...I didn't START the thread....

"if anything it just makes them defensive and angry "

Symptomatic of the truth burning in their hearts and souls, I think. When a person is unable to defend their POV with logic, they naturally become defensive.

"if someone makes that choice, do you think it's someone you'd want to be with ANYway??? Probably not methinks, and you are chafing at the "rule" because it is a general principal and it bugs you. "

No, I would not, and you are right...I am "chafing at the "rule" because it is a general principal and it bugs you". But this is a DISCUSSION BOARD, right?

"...I cannot empathize with your feelings, you're wrong and being pigheaded, so quit it... or maybe I'll spank YOU instead o' vice versa when we meet. "

Oh....my....gawd...ok, that settles it, I am planning a trip to DC (for the vice versa mind you...I am not really the type who would take well to being spanked, but I *DO* feel a "a big round rear end" always deserves one...administered within the specified limits of course...lol)

Ok...back on track again...after reading some of the more RATIONAL counterpoints, I do realize that some of you ladies can indeed empathize, and you grounds for argument is rooted in your femininity...your desire to CONTROL your body. I can't argue with that...I SUPPORT that. I did post that an ESCORT has a right to turn away a client for ANY REASON she sees fit...just that the rules should be applied EVENLY to EVERYONE. An escort just can't use the "I'm not sexually attracted" argument...it is SO lame...I am sure a good portion...virtually by definition...of the clients escorts see are not the most "sexually attractive". Again...she should be woman enough to say, "I do see Black clients because I have a problem with Black men" and then be prepared to defend her irrational POV (or not...it is easier to be a racist in the closet)

"I sat thru lectures where my grandfather (kind soul but OH so ignorant) explained earnestly to me that black people all have aids... among other things! "

So...this is exactly the sort of windmill I am tilting against. How many times have I read "I didn't see Black clients, but then this guy showed up, and I didn't know he was Black, and he was a perfect gentleman"...as though his being Black made this out of the ordinary. I suspect...I don't know, but I suspect...most of the reluctance to see Black clients is rooted in similar type of ignorance that your grandfather showed. Not as sever (let's hope), but the same type. An expectation that all Black men are rude, inconsiderate thugs...that we are the images that are displayed in the media. What surprises me the most about this is the group it is coming from...escorts...who have to deal with similar media driven stereotypes all the time. You'd think they'd know better...

"I can tell you that I have felt sick and disgusted enough when confronted with attitudes like those firsthand."

Good for you!! God bless you for having more guts than most.

"But you can't live in my shoes either,"

You are absolutely right, and I understand now from where this argument is driven (at least from those of you who DON'T discriminate, but are defending the right of others to do so). I can't agree with you...I would be denying who I am and what I believed in if I did...but I UNDERSTAND better. I can respect your POV, I just can't agree with it.

"And since you CANNOT make that choice for me (or anyone else) why bother jumping up and down and screaming about it? "

Because change is affected by those willing to call for change, and doing so ONLY when you think change is imminent is the "punk" way out. Change takes time...and those who call for it don't always have the benefit of seeing it for themselves. Like you said...it is thought provoking. That is the point. (And...I will again point out that I didn't START the thread)

"would you tell a single 20 something woman NOT in the 'biz that she MUST date black men as well as white men in seeking her life partner, or she's a racist? "

Nope...but that isn't a business transaction. I have also figured out that a difference of perspective is that some (many? most?) of the providers still see it as an interaction that is driven by personal relationships, while I see it as strictly "commerce" (to quote someone else who posted elsewhere). My emotions are not in play, which is not to say I can't have a good time and show my partner a good time. I *LOVE* the company of an intelligent, attractive woman (and yes, I placed "intelligent" first by design), and I have met some NEAT people in the "hobby". But...having paid for that time...I have expectations. And one of them is to not be treated differently based on my race.

One thing is definite, there is no final easy, simple answer to this question. For white male clients, they can not relate to this thread because I doubt if they have ever been denied service because they were white. In fact they can not relate to ever being denied service on any level in this country because they were a white male.

For the lady's, I agree 100% that they have the final say who they allow access to their body for an intimate act. I would hope if their preference for whatever reason excludes gentlemen of color, that they are honest about that fact so we both can save our time and my money. There is a way to turn a person down though without being rude. Even though I may think its sad and narrow minded for me to be pre-judged just because of the color of my skin, I support a woman's right to do so. With that being said, it doesn't make that sting hurt any less just because I support your view to do so.

Like I said in a pervious thread, this situation is not exclusive to white providers. There is a pretty big thread in the Atlanta section of TBD between two African American escorts. One lady was going to tour in Atlanta and made a point to have on her website that she does not see black clients. One of the guys pointed out that fact and then another provider ripped her for her stance.

It got out of hand and personal but it is a touchy subject in the African American community. This forum is too limited and there is not enough time to explain why it is so but trust me, it is. Its hard enough to fight prejudice and stereo types the general community has about us, but its even worse when that denial comes from one of your own.

Bottom line, I would rather be with someone who appreciates me instead of someone who is just tolerating my existance to get my money. This does not have to be a race thing either. There are some lady's who go through the motions which generally leave the guy of a feeling of being ripped off. Race has nothing to do with those situations.

I'm out.............

"Now hit my music"!

The date was April 16 of the first post from Tiffany of New York. Here is the URL for the beginning of the thread:

http://public1.boards.bigdoggie.net/messageboards/atlanta/msgs/posts/941363145.html

I'm out.........

"Now hit my music!"

but my email is [email protected]
I'd love to correspond with you, Sweets!  Love, Anne

Whoa....that was pretty intense!!!! I didn't even read the whole thread...but I can see it got....interesting.

She "Tiffany" said something interesting...that she loved and dated (actually she said "slept with"...not very lady like) lots of Black men...she just choses to not see them as clients.

On some twisted, bizare level, I might could understand this. She might find it difficult to keep "business as business" with a Black man. I know that was a concern of mine at first with "the hobby". I enjoy all women...I just really dig females, especially intelligent ones...but I will ALWAYS have a spot in my heart...a special spot, for an interesting, intelligent attractive Black woman. I had a smalll but geniune fear that if I were to meet one via the hobby, I might lose perspective, so I didn't work very hard at meeting one. When I final did hook up with an African American provider, it was it a town other than my own. Even still, the experience was so...unique? that it is the one date I haven't posted about. I just want to keep it to myself. I haven't lost "perspective"...we aren't going to marry....I'm not stalking her, nothing like that. We've actually have developed a pretty kewl acquintanceship. But I must confess she is ever so slightly "special" to me, while the other providers  I have seen...a couple of them really wonderful people...I had no problems with ending our relationship in all forms the moment they walked out the door (on the other hand, a couple of THEM had a problem with it...lol)

(Go ahead....call me a racist...I know it is coming)

I guess I am saying that if, for whatever reason, she just didn't feel comfortable sharing intimacies with a Black man in exchange for money....well....maybe I could see that. Maybe...

Whoa....that was pretty intense!!!! I didn't even read the whole thread...but I can see it got....interesting.

She "Tiffany" said something interesting...that she loved and dated (actually she said "slept with"...not very lady like) lots of Black men...she just choses to not see them as clients.

On some twisted, bizare level, I might could understand this. She might find it difficult to keep "business as business" with a Black man. I know that was a concern of mine at first with "the hobby". I enjoy all women...I just really dig females, especially intelligent ones...but I will ALWAYS have a spot in my heart...a special spot, for an interesting, intelligent attractive Black woman. I had a smalll but geniune fear that if I were to meet one via the hobby, I might lose perspective, so I didn't work very hard at meeting one. When I final did hook up with an African American provider, it was it a town other than my own. Even still, the experience was so...unique? that it is the one date I haven't posted about. I just want to keep it to myself. I haven't lost "perspective"...we aren't going to marry....I'm not stalking her, nothing like that. We've actually have developed a pretty kewl acquintanceship. But I must confess she is ever so slightly "special" to me, while the other providers  I have seen...a couple of them really wonderful people...I had no problems with ending our relationship in all forms the moment they walked out the door (on the other hand, a couple of THEM had a problem with it...lol)

(Go ahead....call me a racist...I know it is coming)

I guess I am saying that if, for whatever reason, she just didn't feel comfortable sharing intimacies with a Black man in exchange for money....well....maybe I could see that. Maybe...

This is one of my favorite articles on the issue of white privilege:
McIntosh, Peggy (July/August, 1989).  White Privilege:  Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack, _Peace and Freedom_,10-12.

She notes:  "I was taught to see racism only in individual acts of meanness, not in invisible systems conferring dominance on my group."

Happy Sunday, Everybody!
Love,Anne

-- Modified on 4/21/2002 9:15:46 AM

"I *DO* have clients in DC, so just break it to me now...if you get an inquiry from me, will I get to see you?"

Such a silly question!

"You're teasing me, aren't you? You are teasing me, hoping my head explodes..."

I am NOT a tease, I always deliver! Eventually

"Nope...and BTW...do you promise to call me honey when we get together, IF we get together?"

Honey, sweetie, and maybe, ya big sexy stud! You never know

LOL I'm in DC Thursday and Friday... usually I'm in the suburbs or bouncing around the general DC/MD/Baltimore area. My schedule is always posted on my website.

This is an issue that is never going to be resolved on the boards... If it makes you feel any better I know of some ladies who discriminate based on weight, on ummmm "size" of that big ol' you know what, and on other races, just like someone else mentioned being nervous around Middle Eastern clients now.  I doubt it makes you feel better tho, and I'm sorry for that.

Oh well I'll finish it by saying that regardless of race/color/creed/religion/whatever, anyone who doesn't respect my boundaries (which are primarily SAFETY oriented) after several polite warnings, will get thrown out of my boudoir with a completely equal amount of yelling, screaming, and pure rage on my part. No problem!  All others are welcum!

Hugsssss*
Nicole