I prefer honesty in all things. I already know that every lady I'm with is not going to have an orgasm, and I'm talking about the ladies I'm with in civvie life who are there because they are attracted to me for some reason. It's certainly not going to happen with most ladies who are there for business.

I try my best to please my partner and that's all I can do. I certainly don't mind some direction if she wants to give it. I am NOT one of those guys who keep asking during intercourse "Did you cum yet?". If I get a "right there" or "faster" or "slower" or "don't stop" from the lady during DATY or intercourse, I comply. However, I just don't waste the time wondering whether its real or fake. I just enjoy the moment.

To actually answer the question, it would depend on my relationship with the lady. I rarely repeat visit. I sometimes see a lady twice because I had a great time the first time and I want to explore things further. I've only seen 2 ladies multiple times because that elusive and magical "chemistry" thing has clicked for me (I say FOR ME becuase I know its possible thats only been a one-way street). If it's a lady I'm only seeing the once or twice, I would prefer she just keep the truth to herself. However, I'm not looking for any great theatrical production from her either ... like I said before, I'm really not concerned anyway. We havn't really clicked in my mind either.

If it was an ATF, I would prefer the truth. If she told me she didn't orgasm with me, but enjoyed the sex, the journey and my company, I would gladly keep seeing her. If she said things like in your OP that she isn't even "remotely into" me or I leave her "cold" then I wouldn't see her anymore. Who wants to feel like they disgust someone?

I'll bring my newbie perspective to this thread. My first meeting was a week ago with a very hot woman who provided me with the best time I've had in 20 years.  I'll admit my mind was blown but I was sure of a couple of simple truths. I liked fucking someone who not only was very good at sex but seemed to care whether I had a good time or not. Nothing was complicated. I felt no guilt. I walked around at home and at work with a smile on my face  and  people around me responded positively to my lighter attitude.  I thought of her over the next week and wanted to do it again.

This week I read the earlier thread on this forum "What do the providers really think about the hobbyists?" where I received loud and clear the following messages:

1. Hookers(providers) are in it for the money. Check
2. Johns(Hobbyists) just want to get off. Check
3. Hobbyists who think providers have a connection with their clients are naive.Check
4. Hobbyists are either old, fat, ugly or probably all three. Check

This thread talks about whether the provider should tell the hobbyist that he is sexually unattractive. What a dilemma that must be for the provider!  On one side there are the poor bastards who live in a happy illusion that the hooker really cares and the envelope is a “gift” or “donation” . He is looked down on by the clued-in guy who criticizes that guy because he is old , fat and ugly and lives in an illusion.  

I hope someone will explain all this to me. In the meantime, I think I'll take the blue pill not the red one, call that hot woman and have a very nice afternoon.

TER should come up with a Referendum Board for posting these types of questions.

Dude, if you are an adult and think that every man and women is going to take, interpret, do or act as you would then you need professional help. On the other hand, if you try to behave like everyone else wants you to you will be dead in no time.

Take honesty for example, it is a highly subjective word.

I feel partly responsible for your 1 - 4 so let me clarify.

1. Yes, but that doesn't mean some ladies don't enjoy the job as well and some clients more than others. Just don't forget that MONEY is the motivating factor here.

2. Way off base. Some hobbyists think this is eharmony and a place to make a love connection. Anything is possible, but if you get into this looking for more I believe you will find yourself extremely disappointed most of the time. It's fairly easy to find a "relationship" based way more off friendship than romance in the hobby but DON"T FORGET ... MONEY is still the motivating factor.

3. Depends ... once again anything is possible, but that "connection", if real, is probably more friendship than romance on her part and most likely just financial. All "connections" are not based on physical attraction.

4. That was me just being realistic ... of course ALL hobbyists are not old, fat, or ugly and certainly not all 3 at once. It was more of a slap in the face/wake-up call to the deluded out there with their giant penises and magical DATY skills. I don't think I'm any of the three, yet I don't fool myself into believing that some 20 year old model type is soaking her panties when I walk through the door either. Besides, not all providers pass the fat, old, and ugly test either. Check out some ad boards here. If you want a real "connection", try seeing someone in your age/weight/appearance class. Be honest with yourself ... if you could not ever pick up a woman like that in your civvie life, what are the chances she is actually attracted to you as a pro then.

Your last sentence says it all. Don't worry about all the nonsense. Fuck'em and forget'em!!!

...and some others that expressed the same sentiment.

Quoting here:
Craztshit:
“If she simply said, "Honestly, I'm not going to get off, it's just not working," that would be a different outcome.

The "you leave me cold" comment, I feel, would be a kick in the nuts and uncalled for, to be perfectly honest.”  

Scoed:
“If she used those exact words, no as "not even remotely into you" and "you leave her cold". is quite harsh and needlessly so. But if instead she said, "I like talking with you and your a great guy, but it isn't going to happen, as I am just not feeling it. I bet you give great back rubs lets try that" I would give her my best back rub and be grateful for the truth."
End Quote.


I had a provider be honest like that. She was the first provider I ever saw. ( BTW: She is not the provider in my first review.) Our first session was the session of a newbie on my part for sure. It was the second session I had with her when she told me that her getting off was not likely to happen. This second session took place almost a year later. The session was an excellent one. During some conversation she stated that she doesn't often have orgasms in sessions because it takes her some time to reach orgasm and her frequent use of toys was likely the culprit.

This was a two hour session so there was plenty of time for talk. The bottom line of all that was said was it all felt good and the time and activity was enjoyed. I was fine with knowing that...and yes, I have seen her several times since then.

I am under no delusion about what this is. I have fun with the ladies I see and the "connection" comes from interesting conversation, common experiences, and not so common experiences that are part of what makes time between two people that don't know each other an engaging encounter.

I am into sex for the mutually enjoyed experience.  Period.  If she doesn't enjoy me, I am not interested in her. Honestly.

But the connection is what keeps me coming back.  Doesn't have to be a sexual connection at all, and it doesn't have to be that I pleasured her or gave her the best orgasm of her life.

I just like to have something more than meet, undress, shower, BBBJ, DATY, fuck, cum, and goodbye.

Because I can do that plenty in NYC without ever paying a dime.

The ones that keep me coming back are the ones that I like to hang out with even after I've come, and that don't have me putting my pants on right away after.

Nothing wrong with that, mind you.  It's just not for ME.

Truth is an empirical or perceived fact or object. Honesty is a behavior that expresses truth without deception. In the scenario Saturn proposed, to simply say, "This is just not working for me," without adding, "You leave me cold sexually,"  is truthful but not honest because the listener draws the false conclusion that they are not the cause. While well intentioned, it is by definition deceptive and therefore dishonest. So when one asks for complete honesty, they really want an incomplete truth.

I love to see orgasmic ladies, and take pride in my ability to help them achieve orgasm.  Maybe some or all are faking, but as long as they are convincing, it's no skin off my nose.

On the other hand, I see several gals who are quite honest about their inability to orgasm, though they do like many other aspects of sexuality.  I have a wonderful time with them also, and take great joy in their efforts to please me.  

Orgasms are not the goal of sex.  Enjoyment is the goal of sex, in whatever forms that may come come.

And any gal who asks me for a massage is going to get a great one.  I just love to massage.

I was curious as to how many other guys thought like you. And I must  add that the parts where she "says" she is not into to it because he does nothing sexually for her....in hindsight need not be said but are possibly  thought. I think in all fairness and kindness, there is no need to get that detailed. I think a simple sweetheart, it's not going to happen for me right now, let's do something different and move on.

I guess why I put the rest of that there was because  there are some  guys who have literally insisted that they keep going and or try another technique when a lady knows no matter what he does, it will not happen. I just wish that they would be more cognizant and realize that they are being told as gently as possible, to please stop.

Someone else put it quite well, a lady good at her job can move the attention off her onto him. It does get tough when the guy does not take the hint.

It is NOT about whether a provider should announce 10 minutes into the appointment, that he leaves her cold.

I should not have added that bit...if she thinks that oh well, but not to articulate. Too much truth is unnecessary...I get that. So I was  incorrect by adding that.

However, if a lady wishes him to stop something that he is doing in the hopes of getting her to orgasm and she is honest and says something more along the lines of honey, not going to happen today , can we move on to something else..blah, blah.. would he rather she said that then fake?

Remember this, we provide a service for the guys and they choose us on how we look and the services we provide...at least initially. There is also attraction. We see you at the time of the appointment and the odds that we are attracted to every man that books us is slim. So, if there is no attraction but you do a great job at giving him what he is there for, and part of what he is there for is to get the provider off, and she knows it's not going to happen, does he want to know that or would her faking ( and I mean doing a great job of that too) to spare his feelings be acceptable?

Where did you get that from? I asked a question. It does not mean it has anything to do with how I conduct business. I simply wanted to know  how others felt in regard to a provider being honest about not orgasming with a client who's objective or hope is to do that.

Seems to me the guys are divided, and I thank them for their comments. There is no right or wrong here. I am not arguing with the people who commented. I wanted their opinions, not to poke holes in them but to simply read them.

I guess I thank you for yours too....??????

So are you looking for a provider that is as into you sexually as you are to her for real OR that appears to be? Because if she appears to be and is believable, is that fine by you?

I was just curious as to level of truthfulness wanted in the hobby. I would love to be able to be honest and gently honest as my aim is not to purposefully hurt someone. I also have to weigh in how that honesty might affect my bottom line.

I am very thankful that the guys answered. As I have said, there is no wrong answer and I did not ask the question to start arguing with the guys, I really wanted to hear from them.

I appreciate your candor and have some great answers on both sides. It has given me lots to think about.

I have found respectful communication to be key during intimacy. If something is not working, gently guide your partner to what does work, which may be a back rub or whatever. I am sure a lot of men appreciate this kinder approach at honesty and will happily move on; no words necessary.

Have a nice Sunday. xo

I would accept nothing but honesty, whatever the consequences. But do recognize that this business is considered a "fantasy," an acronym for "not true." When we go to a massage parlour or a strip joint, there is no question of pleasing the masseur or the dancer, but sex is considered different.

This obviously leads to uneasy situations where sex is concerned. If the paying clients focus on their own pleasure not giving a damn about "mutual" enjoyment, then they are termed assholes by some. However, making an attempt to please her, risks receiving insults as well.

Finding a middle way that can keep both Parties reasonably happy with this transaction requires nothing but honesty and confidence I would say.

While having my fortune cookie

I think you stole that from one of them.

But it was in Chinese (I assume)...so I can't be sure  

I give you my best Hindu wisdom of the East shtick and you compare it to a fortune cookie! But then, what does the monkey know of the taste of ginger.

Those morons are outright stealing your Hindu sayings  

And Ginger...she was OK

But I really preferred Mary Ann...I really do like the little ones.

Except she must be 75 years old by now. That's almost 28 in provider years.

I honestly think that she would advertise as 39....that gives her enough latitude for this crowd  

But from her pics...she can still fit into a pair of daisy dukes better than quite a few of the gals that seem to demand 10/10's  LOL

And she knows how to calculate her rates...nothing less than a 4 hour dinner date.  Smart gal  LOL

But if you promise her a 4 hour cruise...that might not go over so well  

Mrs. Howell could manipulate her way onto the top ten.

Any guy that could make a thermonuclear device out of coconuts and palm fronds with some sand thrown in (but couldn't make a boat?)...could certainly manipulate the TER scoring system as well.

But isn't Lovie coaching the Chicago Bears now?  Oh..you meant Howell...not Smith.

Sorry  

I have no illusions that a provider would be "into me sexually".  All I would really like to have in a provider relationship is someone that is relaxed and enjoying themselves, letting whatever natural sexual response they have able to surface once in a while.  I just don't enjoy feeling like an unwanted guest.

I am struggling to come up with words that properly describe what tells me they are enjoying themselves.  It is not about the sex act as much as it is how they relate to me in total.  There is a look on someone's face, and the intensity of their gaze (or lack of it) that provide subjective clues as to how comfortable they are.  And the nature of things that you end up talking about is another. I have never been with anyone that can fake all of those aspects to the point of belief over repeated visits.  I have been faked out within the context of 1-3 visits though.

"So, if there is no attraction but you do a great job at giving him what he is there for, and part of what he is there for is to get the provider off, and she knows it's not going to happen, does he want to know that or would her faking ( and I mean doing a great job of that too) to spare his feelings be acceptable? "


there is no need to fake.newbies should be taught that it isn't or shouldn't be a "goal". with civvies orgasms dont happen every time,why would providers be different?

I have read responses from providers that say they really get off on dates.those are the ones we should see. the others would not make it for very long but at leastwe would have more "honesty"

I am struggling to come up with words that properly describe what tells me they are enjoying themselves.  It is not about the sex act as much as it is how they relate to me in total.  There is a look on someone's face, and the intensity of their gaze (or lack of it) that provide subjective clues as to how comfortable they are.  And the nature of things that you end up talking about is another. I have never been with anyone that can fake all of those aspects to the point of belief over repeated visits.  I have been faked out within the context of 1-3 visits though.

I think you nailed it and I thank you for that. To me, that is what it's all about...right there. I must admit I get caught up thinking the guys mean sexual enjoyment as the primary type and I get that it's a great thing when it happens. I can certainly enjoy myself as you put it.

why did you even pose the question? gf60

judging by the replies, I got the opinions I was after. Why did you bother to post?