I am sorry that I keep wanting to talk about this and realize others may not.  

Dont shoot me, please!  
Just talk to me if you're also interested.
I dont really know any place else where people can discuss this the same as can be done here at TER.

To me, if I were going to teach a class on Hobbying 101, this Lamar Odom case would be really good to use as an example of what goes on and how to handle things.

The latest is that Love Ranch owner Hof now threatens to sue Khloe Kardashian for Lamar's unpaid bill of $75k if the credit card does not go through.

Article on it here: http://perezhilton.com/2015-10-22-dennis-hof-love-ranch-sue-khloe-kardashian-lamar-odom-payment-brothel/?from=topstory_perezhilton#.ViliTtaaBsM

While he is correct that a spouse owes for debts incurred by the other spouse, I think Khloe could sue his ass back for encouraging and allowing her husband to do things that almost killed him.

Yes, I know most will say a provider has no such responsibility to a hobbier.

But this is different, I think.

Love Ranch sets itself up, and promotes itself, as some kind of safer and more legitimate business.

I would argue that it has more responsibility for the health and safety of a guest - just like a hotel does.

What if a hotel sold herbal viagra and alcohol and had employees watch as a guest took them along with illegal narcotics?  

I think a hotel might very well be liable for this if the guest gets violently ill, even though the guest assumed the risk of what happened.

The guest is depressed and apparently suicidal.

The hotel has some responsibility not to add to the problems of the guest.

Hof is charging $75k for this entertainment experience. The business assumes a greater responsibility for care of the guest than a typical provider would.

That's my theory anyway. What's yours

...and herbals, or did Odom bring them in?

That is the central issue to the question of liability.

and if there is a way that ALL of them can lose, I would be all for it.

I do agree that he is opening the door to a lawsuit from the Odom/Kardashian camp, and that suit would be for a lot more than $75 K, not to mention if it can be proved, or even if the suspicion is strong enough the State of Nevada could step in and pull his license to operate.

and it's not a matter of his business assuming a greater responsibility than a typical hooker, it's that he has deeper pockets. No one is going to sue a hooker for "contributing" or anything else as there is not pot of gold at the end of it. A licensed and insured brick and mortar business is quite a different matter.

The worst of it is that just like when the National Enquirer gets sued, they get so much free advertising they can just chalk it up to the cost of doing business.

Maybe it's just me, but as a hobbyist when I saw that he agreed to $75,000 for 2 days with 2 women or so, I thought to myself- "do you know how many women you could get for that amount of money on TER."  Light hearted banter, not to be taken seriously.

For the most part, I agree. But not entirely.

I've not seen any report that says Love Ranch supplied unlawful narcotics.
I've seen reports which say they supplied the Herbal Viagra, but also seen Hof deny it, so that's unclear from the news.

If Love Ranch supplied either, the claim against them is perhaps a little easier, but since the Herbal Viagra was lawful, I am not sure that necessarily makes for a great claim, by itself...it gets you closer.

I am thinking of a slightly different claim: that Love Ranch assume responsibility for Odom's safety while he was there, and that they violated that responsibility by allowing and encouraging a clearly depressed and out of control client and guest to do things that were obviously dangerous to him.

It is like a hospital or jail that oversees the care of someone admitted there, and then does not provide safe and appropriate care and lets them harm themselves in some serious way. That is the kind of claim I think Lamar and Chloe may have.

Aborted heli evac flight, trauma care, brain dead, coma, ICU, long term therapy and recovery, private suite and waiting room for Khloe and entourage so they don't have to mix with the riff raff in the regular waiting room ... the medical care bill will be at least 10x that, paid for by insurance, of course.  

Maybe Lamar had HobbyCare to cover those brothel expenses

I thought the same thing, actually.

But more importantly, I thought that the kind of woman he could meet from TER would have been FAR smarter, more professional, more responsible, let alone hot and fun and exciting and kind.

I just think Love Ranch showed itself to be irresponsible and reckless in ways a truly high class provider would not have been, or allowed. Of course, there are providers who might have gone along with what he was doing. No doubt that happens, especially if the customer is super wealthy, or if the customer and provider are both of a class that doesnt really show up too often on TER.  

And of course there are providers who would have been too naive or scared or just not sophisticated enough to know how to react. It's not as if there is an advanced degree one gets before dealing with this kind of difficult problem so you know what to do.

But most of the women I've met through TER would have been more caring and more sensible about the whole thing. They would not have encouraged this nightmare, and would have walked out, or thrown him out if he refused to stop. Or would have tried something other than letting him kill himself as they watched.

-- Modified on 10/22/2015 6:56:54 PM

Is it too late to vote for Obama? Never mind. I forgot I don't vote.  

Khloe has his head all fucked up..

Someone pointed out that 75k could have bought more than one big happy weekend if it had been spent thru TER channels rather than at the Love Ranch sinkhole.

So what was LO thinking?  

Dichotomy 1: "Love Ranch is legal pussy and I can go there and do my illegal drugs." legal - illegal

Dichotomy 2: "TER pussy is against the law and many (most?) of the top TER ladies will only allow legal drugs like alcohol or chocolate covered strawberries." illegal - legal  

"I want pussy AND powerful drugs. At Love Ranch, I can have my coke and snort it, too."

Some compulsion drove him to go with option 1. The compulsion for drugs won out over the compulsion for pussy

END OF MESSAGE

and if those laws require them to protect the welfare of their clients. Just a thought, knowing nothing of how the Ranch might be regulated.

In my state (not NV) even if a person arrived drunk at a bar and was served that bar is liable. If he openly used drugs at the place, there could be liability.  Don't know the particulars of NV law, though. Any LV barracudas have an opinion?

But I don't know the laws regarding client welfare, but the ladies are not concerned brothel employees but instead independent contractors with their own license. There is a greater chance they could be sued than the brothel as they witnessed him taking the drugs. I don't know how the liability pans out. Not a lawer

If kardashit sues Hof could she use any kind of provisions in the brothel laws to prove that Hof had a duty to protect his clients from being idiots and killing themselves with too much alcohol and enhancers.  

They too are considered businesses and not employees and thus would share liability if not own it out right. Hof has sued his ladies before. He is scum and will throw the ladies under the bus. It wouldn't be the first time he has done so.

I can't believe Lamar went to Love Ranch made ass out of himself.Trashed Love Ranch.I can't believe Hof not making Lamar accountable trashing his business.

Suing for the $75 grand would be a hugely stupid idea, UNLESS he is simply doing so to keep his name on the front page. In which case there are a lot of stupid people with plenty of money who will flock to his joint for the prospect of doing an ounce of coke and three different hookers a day.  

Of course anyone who wants to do the exact same thing for less than a tenth of the money can simply hop a plane to Bogota or Medellin.

But my point is, he can't throw his "independent contractors" under the bus without opening himself up to huge legal liability of his own. Whatever happened under his roof is still his problem and no "independent contractor" agreement indemnifying him from the actions of any of his "independent contractors" is going to save him in court. His only hope would be to prove that not only did he NOT have knowledge of what was going on under his own roof, but that there was no reasonable expectation that he "should" know if his girls were aware that Odom was acting recklessly. My money is on the Kardashians, they are also a lot better at manipulating the media than he.

And honestly I am rooting for the Kardashians. Hof isn't a good person. He and pimps like him is exactly what is wrong with the Nevada model.  Well at least one thing.

This has become all about keeping this on the front page for both Hof and the Kardashians.  

Just so you know the independent contractor thing has worked well for oil companies in North Dakota.

There is another quite higher standard where it comes to protecting yourself from liability.  

If a rig hand offers his services on a "contract basis" but works on "your rig" that's drilling on "your property" under "your" direct supervision, anything he does while providing service for you is as your agent and you are just as liable for him as if he were an employee.  

Now OTOH, if you hire the services of Halliburton to do service work for you on a contract basis, that is a completely different matter and you may very well be indemnified from any damages caused by them, BUT if the damages are high enough, any opposing attorney may still seek to include the hiring company as a co defendant in any law suit and simply claiming that Halliburton was an independent contractor still might not be insulation enough to stay off the hook.

Let's be real. I strongly doubt that HOf is going to sue Odom for 75K when his legal bills will be far in excess of that amount.  And the Kardashians aren't going to sue Hof because they want to completely dissociate Lamar from the ranch.  Hof was/is in total damage control.  Not all publicity is worth it and having a celebrity almost OD at your business is not the type of publicity Hof, or anyone else, wants.  All Hof is wishing is that Lamar gets better and this all goes away - the quicker the better.  By the way, all you non-lawyers should stop giving legal assessments and opinions.

The very business that Scoed mentioned, the oil business.

Tell me smart guy, do you actually disagree with anything I actually said about independent contractors? and just what are your qualifications?

Not to mention, I am NOT the one who said Hof was going to sue. He himself is the one opening that door. I was one of the ones pointing out the folly of doing so. IOW I actually agree with you on that point.  

So once again smart guy, what makes your opinion so much more valid that those of the rest of us?

Who from the Ranch could have told him to lay off the drugs? He may even have been taking them without anyone actually seeing what was being ingested?  

Where does personal responsibility come into this? Or should it be irresponsibility? Sort of like a bar selling booze and one of the patrons drives drunk and kills someone. How is the Ranch or the bar to know the limits of each and every person in order to stop them? Some people can seem fine on the outside but terribly impaired.

I guess this is a case to have every nook and cranny monitored by CC cameras so as to protect the business. And people should start taking responsibility for their stupid and dangerous actions instead of expecting others to pay for them.