It's ironic, isn't it?  In this day and age when most people are concerned about safe sex, our LE pals are using the chief means of practicing safe sex, namely possession of condoms, as evidence indicating "intent" to engage in the "hobby," either as a hobbyist or a provider.  These are the same sanctimonious donut-eating clowns who lecture their sting victims during the arrest, "you ever hear of AIDS?"  That's when you say, "yeah, that's why I got these rubbers here, you prick!" ("on the inside," as the comedian used to say . . .)This results in girls being afraid to carry them or to have a big supply around the apartment, or in their disposing of used ones inappropriately.  I know it should be their stock in trade, but who wants to get hassled?  So you sometimes run into ladies who will ask if YOU have one, or if you can pick some up on the way over, etc.  I've also seen them flush the used ones down the toilet, a sure way clog it up if you do it enough.  I'd like to see the look on the Roto-Rooter guy's face when he pulls those out . . .Ladies, any thoughts on this? (and no, FF, I'm not talking about my little pal . . .)

Nomral people carry condoms all the time too.  I just tote them along always.  If this ever became an issue I would say, "Hey, I always carry them!  Doesn't everybody?"  I am sure that is enough to offset the evidence, at least the evidence of condoms.  After all, even in my single life you need them because you never know when you might decide to have sex.  Why ever be caught in a situation where you don't have any?  I even carry different sizes. My purse always has lipgloss, my cell phone, my credit card, my driver's license, proof of car registration and insurance, and condoms with a few different sizes.  These are things we all need.  I think it is normal, try to use that against me buddy!

Hey... I'm just a "safe" nympho!hehe... XXXOOO Ashley http://www.southcoastvip.com

In my own private stash at home. Mostly because you never want to run out. One only knows if they busted into my house and I was just with my girlfriend. It seems really flimsy for a way to bust you considering they are not an illegal substance or item. Wow

Since our good friend Levendi must be working late tonight, I'll quote what he said in a post on March 15 (yeah, now everybody knows, I  print out the good ones) re. a provider I knew that got busted in an outcall situation in a hotel in Orange County."In addition to the offer of sex for money, an overt act (a volitional act) towards the completion of the crime is required.  In your example, we have two overt acts: condoms in purse PLUS hotel room.  This coupled with previous long conversations on the phone= BUST!"So I read it like you say Papercup, condoms can be damning evidence if combined with these other factors.  The fact that all women buy and use condoms doesn't carry any weight when the so-called "minds" of LE are at work.  On a personal note, a friend of mine in great pain from a recently broken arm made the huge mistake of asking the Huntington Beach, CA police for a two mile ride home when she could no longer shift her car.  OK, I have to choose my words carefully so as not to offend anyone, THE SHIT-FOR-BRAINS HB police took her obvious signs of physical pain as proof she must be on drugs and dismantled her car while she sat on the sidewalk for over an hour with handcuffs on her broken wrist .  Door panels off, trunk stripped, back seat removed, center brake light dismantled and broken etc.  Then they used this trumped up "suspicion of drugs" to search her purse and guess what?  When they found condoms accused her of being a hooker and started harassing and intimidating her to prove she wasn't (This was at 2:00p.m. coming back from the beach)!These LE assholes break so many laws everyday we shouldn't be surprised that they would use condoms in a purse as evidence against you.  The fact that our government and private orgs. have spent $$$ millions over ten years trying to get people to use condoms is inconsequential when you are so stupid you have to wear your name on your shirt so you won't forget (actually it's there so your partner can read it to you).Why do I hate cops so much- by the time she got home her wrist was swollen to about three times it's normal size and she still had to drive herself home.  I got to spend an afternoon trying to re-assemble the broken parts of her car. There's a reason they call them "pigs" people ("assholes" has too many syllables for them to remember).--modified by G2 at Wed, Apr 11, 2001, 23:11:44

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Cops are only responding to the bitching and moaning of conservative tax paying citizens.  I think most cops are good guys and that the general premise of safety and police is a good thing designed to protect rather than infringe.  It's the nice family man who lives 2 door down from you who calls LE and sets off fireworks that put pressure on legal system to do something or else. How about telling him to mind his own business?  This same guy is the one propositioning a girl at a stripclub. He just doesn't want that "element" in HIS neighborhood.  But he's willing to drive 40 miles to get a sensual massage.Funny how when we need them, they are law enforcement.  When they are "after" us for jaywalking etc., they are LE or cops.  Don't judge anyone until you've walked a day in his or her shoes. Cops don't make shit for the risks they take and after a few years of dealing with the dregs of society day in and day out, you might get a little edgy and psychologically damaged too. More of our money should go into counseling for cops so that they can be better protectors and have healthy personal lives. If my child was hurt at school or lost or an emergency occured, the police would be called.  If you keep bashing law enforcement, they won't be there when we need them most.I read all the posts on this string and I don't think any of that stuff would hold up in a court of law.  Intent to do what? I carry a packet of sugar in my purse for hypoglycemic needs.  That doesn't mean I'm going to use it.  It's just for emergencies.  And it will probably stay there for a year or until I buy a new purse.

A friend of mine who is a CMT was busted by the RBPD(asswhole Steve) OOOPS!! Did I say that? Because she had condoms in her bathroom and they were used as evidence.She pleaded out and the charges were drop down to a $500.fine. But only after paying out $5,000. legal fee's.Liz

Good points you make!Yea, I have had the experience w/ the roto rooter man..  When he pulls out the rooter thing and it is decorated like a xmas tree with little doo dads you don't want to be there.. believe me!  And then there is the issue of being in posession of a varity selection of condoms, slim fit to magnum.. hmmm

There was a very good program on Court TV this past Tuesday called "The Interrogation of Michael Crowe." This was about a murder of Stephanie Crowe in Escondido, in which LE was convinced (on no evidence) that her brother, along with his two friends committed the murder. The Escondido LE used extraordinarily coercive interrogation techniques to obtain confession, and Court TV aired the videotapes of these confessions. The cases were later thrown out, due to the illegally obtained "confessions." At the same time, a transient named Tuite with a history of break-ins was picked up, having been in the area of the killing. The defense team got his clothing tested, and there was a splatter pattern of blood on his shirt that DNA-testing matched with Stephanie Crowe. No charges have been filed against Tuite, no doubt to cover LE's collective asses.The net conclusion from all of his is to not say anything to LE, without being lawyered up. With the latest loosening of our Miranda rights by the so-called Supreme Court, this becomes even more important.

Oh, this makes me so angry to read the account of your freinds misfortune with LE! It reminds me of what happened to my sister while she was pregnant. She was involved in a very bad relationship with someone who was an abusive. She would not leave him at this point. (I will further explain the relevance of this, later) She left her house to do some errands and she ran out of gas or some such thing (he left her without much money most of time) anyway she tried to get help, made phone calls etc. Ultimately she called the local police to help (anaheim, I think) and they took one look at this poor, nerve wracked girl and assumed she was on drugs. Actually from the account of it, I think they just decided to hassle her! She wound up sitting on the side of the road needing to use the bathroom while they searched her car. She said that they told her "If we want to find drugs on you, we will". Course they eventually left, with no assistance to her!! Did she look like a drug addict? Possibly, as she was so nervous due to the nature of her life at that time. However, she called THEM!!In this case there was a happy ending. She now has two beautiful children that she is pretty much raising alone. She is a represents a major stock brokerage. Did an amazing turnaround. However, this should illustrate that we ladies have to use extreme caution! These are not always nice people to deal with!Another reason I screen heavily these days!!

I think they see it as why do you need a gross of condoms in various colors and flavors in your purse walking up and down the same street all day! I wasn't aware that reg girls couldn't possess condoms "in a quanity for personal use",Yikes!!

I certainly agree with Ms. Barron regarding "I don't think any of that stuff would hold up in a court of law."It wont. It does not. It would be, (and is)  idiotic  of anyone in  Law Enforcement to  attempt to  indict anyone based on  the  posession of condoms  as part of  or sole  evidence presented. They at times do. And I do call their thinking moronic. Agreed as well, that  the  vast majority "Cops" are  good  guys doing their jobs under  extremely trying circumstances .However,a large  majority of "Dicks"(sic-detectives) or "Feds" involved in  clandestine operations focusing SOLELY on innocent,non criminal related  providers, are  what I call  in my book " miscreants."

Are you really a judge?  Because it is hard to argue with someone who is in your position.  However, in every account I've heard of arrests of girls, their condoms have been confiscated as evidence, and I know they were used as evidence of intent in at least one case that went to trial.I agree that not all LE officers are bad.  I've had both good and bad experiences with them, but the bad ones left me very disillusioned.  Most of us have a real hard time with peopleabusing their positions of authority, and many of the very people who I was raised to believe were there to protect me, I discovered were inept, liars, hypocrites.  I know they're not all that way, but, well, white hats soil easily.

Are you really a judge?  Because it is hard to argue with someone who is in your position.  However, in every account I've heard of arrests of girls, their condoms have been confiscated as evidence, and I know they were used as evidence of intent in at least one case that went to trial.I agree that not all LE officers are bad.  I've had both good and bad experiences with them, but the bad ones left me very disillusioned.  Most of us have a real hard time with peopleabusing their positions of authority, and many of the very people who I was raised to believe were there to protect me, I discovered were inept, liars, hypocrites.  I know they're not all that way, but, well, white hats soil easily.

While I understand Heather's thinking, like Laurel my response to them is gaurded. I have had occasion to call LE myself for protection once to a friend who had an abusive boyfreind who was taking his stuff and leaving. I called them as back up in case they were needed. One was nice, the other had a screw loose and was scary to listen to talk!The above incedent involving my sister is just one of many stories I could tell that freinds have told me. One freind in particular, latin male, has had incidents occur to him when he was younger of racism, undue attention from them. He in fact, wound up winning a couple of law suits due to abuse! Hard to believe, but true.The mental balance is often lacking to do the job adequately. Power trips are hard for many to avoid. I have never had a traffic ticket. Lucky? Perhaps, or perhaps it is being blonde and striking looking? Thought I was gonna get one a few months ago, but he just pulled up next to me and asked if I would "Please not speed"! Anyway, if I ever were to be pulled over at night would drive to a well lit and traffiked area. Have heard to many horror stories. Might have to fight a "she gave chase to me" charge, but as long as they dont shoot me, with undue cause, would do it anyway! Scary thoughts!Nicole

It's posts like this that make you realize how many people don't take the time to learn the law themselves and do their own research. Ignorance will keep you scared. Knowledge is true power. Any idiot cop knows they can't bust you on having condoms. But, if they think that YOU don't know this, it's a great scare tactic to get other relevant info. Information about the Law and Law procedures are not privelaged to just lawyers, judges and cops. Unfortunately we do depend on them to enforce it fairly and judiciously.

Sorry Liz, your friend got screwed, and royally so.  You can plead guilty by yourself, save the $5000 and pay a lesser fine if the circumstances are right.  The problem with condoms is that they are circumstantial evidence of prostitution.  The only direct evidence is discussion of sex and money coupled with an act for the purpose of engaging.  Condoms alone won't do it. So if any of our lovelies are caught with condoms and haven't said or done anything, just keep quiet and ask for a lawyer.  Very sorry about your friend. Regards, levendi

I hope all of the LE assholes that read this board read your post G2. Thanks for sharing and let me verify what you have said that LE specialize in trumping up "probable cause" or the reason for stopping you. Most of the time it's bullshit.  My favorite is when they walk up to you on the street and say "good morning, mind if I talk to you?" People are so scared that they actually say yes. They don't realize that they have the right to say "Yes officer I do mind if you talk with me and if you persist in doing so, I would like your name and badge number please".  I hope that the settlements and verdicts in all of the Rampart cases are large enough to really impact the way these assholes do their work. Regards to all, levendi

Screening is very important Nicole but these buttheads in LE have false IDs, utility bills, credit cards. You name it.  What you need to do is to see how comfortable the client is once he sees you.  Meeting him somewhere other than home is good to do as well. In my case I encourage the provider to search me if she wants for badges, wires, guns, condoms, whatever.  I think both parties need a good comfort zone.  In exchange for being search, I ask to check out the house to make sure there are no goons around (except our Russian friends whose goons I tolerate because LE is too chicken shit to take them on).  I am glad things turned out great for your sister.  It all seems to work out sooner or later if we persevere. Regards, levendi

How come I never get to practice in your court, your Honor? I agree with everything that you have said.  On the practical side, there is a lot of bad things about LE that Ms. Barron does not know because she does not have the misfortune of working in the criminal justice system.  You want to know why LE budgets increase every year? You should see the number of cites for stealing recycleables, sleeping in public places, no garage sale permits, chicken shit traffic stops, dogs without leashes, and loitering coupled with questionable detentions for probable cause to arrest.  All of these count as cases and arrests for purposes of budget.  You should see the amount of illegal overtime claimed by LE while they are waiting to testify in court "on call" and working side jobs.  There are some great cops out there who do wonderful things but, if you look at the whole picture, resources are mismanaged and misappropriated constantly. Regards, levendi

is the problem.  It's abusing their position of authority and the trust the public places in them.  None of this stuff ever makes it to court, but it's all part of the petty abuse of power that turns public attitude against police.  They rely on the public's lack of knowledge, combined with fear of authority to act like modern day Brown Shirts.I didn't always have this attitude.  If you can believe it, I was voted Citizen of the Year in my hometown in Ohio.  I bought into the whole 9 yards too- cops are our friends, we should respect them, they're here to protect us.  BULLSHIT !!!The more you see and the more you know, the more you will understand that bumper sticker that says "Question Authority."  For every act of service, I can give you an act of abuse.  You've read some, but I'll give you two more minor ones that show a mindset.I used to date a beautiful blonde in her late 20's.  In the year we lived together she was stopped three times on the San Diego Fwy. by cops who asked her out on dates (she said it happened all the time)!  She used to come home and tell me this like it was a good thing and I'd be so pissed I could hardly talk.  Another girlfriend of mine was a college professor, totally non-materialistic and never cared much about her car one way or another.  She was stopped on average 2-3 per year for "seat belt" violations in a particular Orange County city coming to visit me.  She always wore a seatbelt but unfortunately drove a car favored by a particular minority group in Santa Ana (can you say racial profiling).  So this white Ph.D. professor got to know what it was like to always be rousted by the cops becuase they think you are a minority.  I actually ride motorcycles with a cop in another city, and the stories he's told me have not convinced me I'm wrong.  He's had to clean up some real messes caused by his officers.   We obviously need police, what we don't need is abuse of power and harassment.

Wonderful experience I've had with the LAPD...1) False police reports - later videotape showed the pigs did what they accused me of doing 2) Attempted complain to interal affairs, that resulted in "Be nice or you will end up with a ticket for that busted taillight" which was unbroken when I arrived at the station 3) Called about drug dealing in a park that resulted in me being hog tied and a gun in my mouth by LAPD 4) Call by myself and multiple neighbors about a deranged ex-husband that was hacking his ex-wife house with a chainsaw. The pigs took 3 hours to get there - only got there when a neighbor went to the Italian restaurant down the street (where the pigs were lounging around) and began yelling about what was happening. Where did all of this take place - Echo Park area of Los Angeles (the whole Rampart scandal is just scratching the surface). Are there good police out there - it depends a lot on the city. As far as I am concern, LAPD is like the Nazi Gestapo (might be a few o.k. Gestapo members but for your own well being you better not depend on it.)

You used the term "bitching and moaning of conservative tax paying citizens".  If you define "conservative" by political definitions, this statement would be misleading, because some of the strongest opponents of prostitution and proponents of vice stings are staunch feminists that usually are considered "liberal" on the political scale.  These women think that all women in prostution are there against their "true" will, and they think they know what is best for their "fellow" women, who demean all women by "selling their bodies".If you mean "sexually conservative", then you are dead on.

Thank you Levendi,Yes, you are right my friend was screwed royally.Had she talked to me about what was gonig on at the time. She could have saved the 5,000.She was pushed down to the ground and had a gun in her face.She was afraid of the cop that busted her because he told her she was going to jail for 5 years and he gave her a taste of what happened to pretty little girls in jail. So she got a lawyer and a bad one at that.All this and she was really only doing Theraptic Massage.Along with the condoms they took her birth control pills,panties,personal phone book and the fact the cop asked her if he could get naked.One thing everbody has to remember is in smaller cities like Redondo Beach. They don't have a vise team just a bunch of gun ho Nazi's that have something to prove.Liz

Heather, the majority of my contacts with LE have been positive.  Sometimes I was even damned glad to see them.  I've seen a little bit of the other side too, since I have relatives who work for LE.  Some are good people, some aren't.  Just like anywhere else.  I agree cops are necessary, even though not all the laws they're obligated to enforce are.  My little tirade was directed at those working vice who turn safe sex efforts upside-down by making possession of condoms something to worry about.  Merely possessing them is not enough to land you in the pokey, but combined with other evidence, it could be used against you in a vice sting.  I have heard girls voice their fears of being caught with them by LE and even our friendly neighborhood legal commentator, Levendi, has made mention of it.  I'd like to see condoms-as-evidence become politically incorrect and discontinued.  Wouldn't you?--modified by Papercup at Thu, Apr 12, 2001, 19:45:58

When you are busted you are busted, so does it realy matter after that? And yes, here in las vegas, we have this cute little NRS called "loitering with intent to solicit" What was the intent? Taking to several unknown males at a bar", and several condoms in my purse" it's on my police report

When you are busted you are busted, so does it realy matter after that? And yes, here in las vegas, we have this cute little NRS called "loitering with intent to solicit" What was the intent? Taking to several unknown males at a bar", and several condoms in my purse" it's on my police report

Hope the legal hassles are minimal.  Good luck!  BTW, after seeing your website (and reviews here on TER), Vegas looks more inviting than ever!

PC this is just another attempt by LE to grab at straws hoping that the provider will not hire an attorney and cop a plea. Even though this wouldn't serve as evidence in court, it makes it seem like the cops are active an not just hanging out at the donut shop.

Aww, that was a while ago, and yes, Vegas is quite the "hot spot" right now, you should come check us out!