None of those statistics match up with me personally. I have never been raped nor assaulted. I feel no need to "escape" this business. I am here because I want to be. I was fascinated by the industry from the time I ever really understood what it was about- I was about 12 years old.
I do have a friend who is quite the seasoned hobbyist. He told me that my having never been sexually abused (particularly early in life) was a rare thing that he had come across in his many encounters.
I think that those statistics are more relevant to streetwalkers (and increasingly, some Craigslist ladies as pimps become more and more high-tech). Streetwalkers (along with those who do have issues, for whatever reason) are more viewable by the public eye and/or by those doing the research and coming up with the statistics.
There is no way to tell what the "average" prostitute is like. One could only speculate an average based on those who are more visible to the public.
Just finished watching Larry King's discussion with Dr. Drew Pinsky--who says he's never treated a provider who didn't have a "profound history of child sexual abuse"--and Anderson Cooper's expose on the "dark side of prostitution" which says, "the average prostitute starts in mid-teens, 86% are attacked and 76% consider suicide." Plus I took a look at the Prostitution Research Project which says:
62% reported having been raped in Prostitution.
73% reported having experienced physical assault in prostitution.
72% were currently or formerly homeless.
92% stated that they wanted to escape prostitution immediately.
(Melissa Farley, Isin Baral, Merab Kiremire, Ufuk Sezgin, "Prostitution in Five Countries: Violence and Posttraumatic Stress Disorder" (1998) Feminism & Psychology 8 (4): 405-426
We hobbyists sometimes say that the media only portray the negative side of the hobby, but I have to wonder after looking at these: is there a positive side or are we just deluding ourselves? And more importantly to the providers: do the above statistics and the words of Dr. Pinsky honestly reflect your own experience or do the numbers largely reflect streetwalkers and human trafficking?
how in the hell does arresting these poor exploited women make their lives better?
Do these people really think that sex for hire can actually be erraticated?
I see there is the side they speak of, but it's the drug addicted, pimp associated street walker they are talking about and Maybe a few higher end escorts mostly the 20 something ones. There is also a side which is the upside so to speak.
The young lady who is being exploited at this moment by the media to sensationalize their story, is on the borderline of this category.
I don't know anyone who doesn't have emotional childhood scars to some degree. Noone has a perfect childhood just like noone is a perfect parent.
She is just now coming up with excuses as to make herself look like a victim.
Living in a $4000 a month apt in nyc traveling, sperging on herself, she is exploiting herself.
She did get into this to get herself Out of a worst situation, but I don't think she was suffering. Anyone raking in over 100thous a yr is suffering comfortably. It does make it harder to quit, but who says she wants to quit.
If she truely wanted out, she coulsd have saved her $$ over a few months and gotten out. Society, mainly the media is putting a bad spin on this hobby,which at the moment is directed at her. She is young and uncomfortable with the whole fingerpointing, who wouldn't be, but to say she is suffering, on that very well to do income...I don't think so.
She should have immediately pulled her myspace and all her pics off the web when the story broke and gone into hiding so to speak. Shut her mouth and let it blow over. "Nothing to see here folks". Yes they would have still hounded her a bit but not as much. So she now needs to be "the victim". Thus the "my childhood was aweful" BS.
I wasn't abused, and didnt abuse drugs, this was and still is a business choice. True, not everyone would choose this, but I have no issue with it.
-- Modified on 3/14/2008 4:51:09 AM
-- Modified on 3/14/2008 4:54:02 AM
Great experiences in grade- jr high and high school -
why do I seek escorts... why the obsession with sex... it is just me. I know several people... some providers but most not! and many are obsessed with sex... Many of the celebs we see seem obsessed with sex... and many make excuses for that excessive compulsion - some even go so far as to "invent" a "Bad Childhood" to excuse their excess... (in this category I think Roseanne Barr is the most blatant that I think fabricated her bad childhood... and has truly hurt her parents).
What I think really telling is that some women "used" porn... and then when mainstream did not pan out the way they fantasized - they blame porn...
in short - I think that you've hit on something... fingerpointing... it has become the national sport... if things don't turn out the way you want... blame someone - for something they did 40 years ago (and you were too frickin young to remember) or if there is nothing or no one to blame - fabricate something...
Just as there is a multi-billion dollar tax preparation/legal industry built around and dependent on our universally detested and ridiculously complex income tax system; so too is a multi billion dollar industry built around vilifying the hobby.
Every thing from organized religion to the local bridal shop stand to lose if Katie Couric interviews a happy and emotionally well adjusted 37 year old hooker with a healthy stock portfolio, big fat retirement account, 750+ FICO score and a 1 year old car that is already paid off.
I recently read a government anti-Marijuana pamphlet aimed at parents of juveniles. It was laced with facts about the problems and legal troubles a kid can get into by smoking pot. There was no mention however about any real, verifiable, or deleterious health concerns other than a weak comparison to tobacco smoking.
The biggest negatives associated with smoking pot are created by law enforcement.
The biggest negatives associated with prostitution are again created by its illegalization, the criminal and anti-social elements such legislature and stigma can attract, and law enforcement’s penalties.
Actually there are a number of well proven negative health effects associated with regular long term use of marijuana. Anyone who says differently is either delusional, or has not researched available studies thoroughly enough.
The fact that marijuana IS in fact bad for you though, just doesn't justify making it illegal. Red meat is bad for you. So is skydiving, riding motorcylcles, and foods filled with trans fats. We have alot of rights in this country. One right that the gov't cannot deprive you of no matter how hard it tries, is the right to make stupid choices that could possibly kill you. Its the American way.
But lets not get off track into a discussion on pot please. Your point about the media utterly refusing to consider the possibility that there might be alot of happy hookers out there is definitely valid. The media, and society as a whole, are determined to believe that prostitution MUST be a choice a woman makes ONLY as a last resort, and one that she must surely be ashamed off deep down inside. To hear about women who chose to become escorts with their eyes wide open, and who actually enjoy what they are doing just doesn't compute for them. The media just love the sordidness of telling the plight of an exploited woman who's hard luck story eventually led to her "degrading" (society loves that word) herself just to get by.
From the project's intro
"PRE’s goal is to abolish the institution of prostitution "
That tells you that the stats are very unlikely to be accurate. The most likely reason for those stats is that they were compiled from providers who were in therapy and ignored any providers who were comparatively well-adjusted. This is a very common problem in gathering data- how can one make sure they have a random sample of providers from whom to gather data?
I think these are good posts, and I generally we could benefit from some form of legalization. But there is an assumption that if legalization occurred it would eliminate the exploitive, dark side. I would note a NYT article that discussed the Netherlands where prostitution was legalized but they still have problems with gangster involvement, trafficing, etc. Of course, they do not mention Canada, which I gather has a somewhat enlightened approach that seems to work.
Legalizing prostitution won't eliminate the darker side of it. What it WILL do though, is allow law enforcement to focus on the dark underbelly of prostitution while leaving the rest of the sex working community alone to ply their trade freely AND more safely.
Police love to spend their time harassing gals and clients with no mob connections, but what if they had to go up against tough Russian mafia types? That wouldn't be as much fun now, would it?
Show biz and sports are inundated with gang activities. Why don't we ban them too?
These statistics are in fact accurate among street walkers. Every study referred to above had as their study population women who work the streets for their trade.
There is in fact a world of difference between women who have taken to prostitution to support a drug habit, or who have been coerced into prostitution by unscrupulous pimps, usually at a very young age versus high end escorts who do not have drug problems, who are not threatened by pimps, and who tend to be better educated.
Statistics like this are the strongest argument for the legalization of prostitution. The women who make up these statistics desperately need help, and the pimps who push them onto the street corner need to be first castrated, then waterboarded before being tossed into a deep hole for the rest of their miserable life. Failing that, since we are so polite and dainty as a society, law enforcement would be better served focusing on investigating prostitution where drugs are involved, or where the women have been coerced or are under the age of 18. The best way to do that is to legalize and regulate prostitution. Instead though, we have massive man hours wasted investigating escorts because that is where you get the big juicy headlines by catching public figures in the act.
I'm not kidding. Read the link below (requiring Adobe Reader.) Be prepared to be buried in bullshit.
People like Melissa Farley don't want to be confused by happy hookers, who they consider pimps and panderers, sell outs, or insane.
Dr. Pinsky has never treated a provider who didn't have a profound history of child sex abuse?
Hmmm. Does that mean that the majority of providers have a profound history of child sex abuse, or does it mean that nobody goes to him for treatment UNLESS they have one?
Have women in other careers been subject to the same brilliant method of data collection? I'd be willing to bet that many women who choose careers in social work, especially those who work with abused children, were themselves subject to or at least involved somehow with child abuse. Should we go on a campaign to eliminate that career?
62% report rape, 73% report physical assault. How many outside of prostitution report rape or assault? Will "eliminating" prostitution reduce rapes and assaults by 62 - 73%
72% are previously or currently homeless? Will eliminating prostitution create more or fewer options for these women? Is it a terrible thing that a woman might have to sell her body to buy food and shelter? Of course it is. How does eliminating prostitution improve her situation?
92% stated that they wanted to escape prostitution immediately. THIS is the only stat I will listen to. If a women is being held in slavery by another, or by her own real or percieved inability to survive otherwise, then she needs to get out - she needs help, and anybody forcing her into this life needs to be squashed.
However, as others have stated, I'm pretty sure that this stat was taken from a limited field of providers who ARE working the streets, working for pimps, working for drugs, etc.
I find it difficult to believe that the majority of independent or reputable agency providers are that desperate to get out of the life. I'm sure many do it only for a short time and then want to move on, but there are also many that are doing it as a career, and enjoy some or all aspects of it.
Slavery is bad. Poverty is bad. Violence is bad.
Why not increase police efforts against slavery and violence, increase government efforts to ease poverty, and decriminalize prostitution? Or, you could increase police effort against prostitution and make more criminals out of the providers and hobbyists - if you think that will solve the problems of slavery, violence, and poverty.
Good luck with that.
This is similar to my thinking on the issue. Websites like Prostitution Research and people Melissa Farley assume that because prostitution has a dark underbelly it automatically makes the practice evil. Even if it was true that women only turn to prostitution as a last resort how does that make the practice evil? After all, does anyone work in a sweatshop out of choice? Of course not. They do it as a last resort. Does that automatically make the job they do in those sweatshops evil? Of course not. If someone came up with statistics, would they probably say that 95% of sweatshop workers or indentured servants want to escape their jobs immediately? I'm sure they would but that wouldn't make the job itself inherently evil. According to the Department of Justice, victims of human trafficking are forced into domestic servitude and agricultural labor as well as prostitution. But you rarely see anyone talk about the forced exploitation of domestic servants and farm and factory laborers with the vehemence they do about prostitution. Why is that?
The media is not much interested in presenting a positive spin on prostitution or escorting. First of all, I have no doubt that those statistics may be accurate as they are representative of a certain segment, and that segment only, of women who work in the sex business. The experience of an abused teenage runaway is not going to be the same as the experience of mid-twenties college student. Women find themselves in the sex industry for a variety of different reasons. Most discrete low volume providers keep a low profile and are not going to tell their stories to the media...and honestly, the media isn't really interested in hearing them.
I feel sorry for any young woman who is exposed to violence or forced to do something against her will. These are not however the women that I know in the sex industry. My experiences have been very different. I count a few providers as close friends and many that I have known to be among the most intelligent, realistic and well balanced women that I know.
. . . right? I mean, that's like, his job. Did he go to the internet and look for providers with a positive attitude with whom to survey and speak? Or does he see the ones troubled enough to see a clinical psychologist?
On that very Larry King show, he had four people with a positive attitude on prostitution, Jodie "Babydoll" Gibson, Jeanette Maier, Jason Itzler and Natalie (don't remember her last name). Larry King carefully arranged his show so that the people negative about prostitution weren't on there at the same time those who were positive about it. Why? Because the fight would never end, and it would deteriorate into a "Jerry" episode. Laura Schlessinger made disparaging remarks about the ones who said anything positive about it.
Neither Schlessinger nor Pinsky would have tolerated Itzler and company saying anything good about the business.
If you're healthy, positive and a hooker, you learn to shut-up when the feminists and puritans ask questions. Like Pinsky and his remark, those heroes of morality think nothing of giving people a shamelessly biased sample-- such a biased one that there is no scientific inquiry to it.
So, I can imagine that many of the providers he is speaking about probably have this as a major issue. In fairness, I think he should have mentioned it during his interview.
-- Modified on 3/14/2008 1:51:45 PM
in some way that doesn't include whatever he wants at the moment.
All of this stuff is phrasing the questions the way you want, measuring the statistics the way you want, confusing correlation and causation, and forgetting that you're making a social judgment that the next 7/11 clerk is just as qualified for - and then passing it off as science.
Then when somebody asks, "hey doc, is ANY of that falsifiable?" you say, "what does that mean?"
And the answer is to the effect that since pigs might be able to fly, we should probably believe that they do fly, because there's big grant money in it, and politicians and reporters love it too. So what if it doesn't make a lick of sense?
Each media operation knows well their audience, and pick their experts like lawyers pick their expert witnesses, knowing well what statistics, data, opinions, they will espouse.
Fact is, the moralists like Dr. Pinske won't include any well-adjusted provider in their statistics, nor in their presentation. If their on a show with actual well-adjusted providers, Pinske would then attack the women as moral scum, or plea sympathy for their mental health.
For studies, they won't even include such women in their statistics.
Really, well-adjusted providers who are at peace with what they are doing learn to duck when they are invited to a TV show with such people as Andrew Pinske or Melissa Farley (a feminist who works with Congress to develop anti-prostitution laws). They simply do not get respect or fair play from those people.
It was a good move by Larry to have the two sides on their one at a time. Fact is though, it wasn't a balanced view as much as it was looking at one world for a while, and then another one for a while.
a sexual assault against them at some point in their lives,and that stat is borne out in discussions I've had with numerous women including family members, former girl friends, my ex and numerous providers with whom I've discussed the issue of sexual violence with.
Usually the attackers are family members, clergy or boy friends who got out of hand.
So given this fact, that demeaning of providers by saying that they work as providers because they are mentally screwed up is a big slur and adding insult to injury.
thanks for the link....totally horseshit site
most of the research has been done regarding those forced into prostitution
quoting from andrea dworkin, who saw marriage as prostitution too???
as for the sexual abuse component...1 out of every 4 women in the united states has been sexually abused, so finding high rates in those that are in the sex industry doesnt really mean all that much
im waiting for a study with only independent providers...not those forced into the life
Did you notice that most of those quotes were written by women?
I'm sure all their husbands are sexually satisfied, because I'm sure these women are all very willing to please them. LOLOLOL
... of all statistics quoted by experts are made up. I should know. I'm an expert.
None of those statistics match up with me personally. I have never been raped nor assaulted. I feel no need to "escape" this business. I am here because I want to be. I was fascinated by the industry from the time I ever really understood what it was about- I was about 12 years old.
I do have a friend who is quite the seasoned hobbyist. He told me that my having never been sexually abused (particularly early in life) was a rare thing that he had come across in his many encounters.
I think that those statistics are more relevant to streetwalkers (and increasingly, some Craigslist ladies as pimps become more and more high-tech). Streetwalkers (along with those who do have issues, for whatever reason) are more viewable by the public eye and/or by those doing the research and coming up with the statistics.
There is no way to tell what the "average" prostitute is like. One could only speculate an average based on those who are more visible to the public.
I am with you on that, I have never been raped or assaulted and aside from the normal family fbombs of being raised, I had it pretty good.
I love sex, I am very gifted in this area, |I love men, and thought...hmmm I can do this. I was right.
I have no regrets, and looking back, I would have done nothing different. I made a definate choice and have gained so many great friendships with some truely fascinating men. For me...there is no down side.
I am self employed with lots of free time for my family, and the bills are all paid. I take better care of myself since starting this whole adventure and have grown so much because of it. This is the side society is Not, nor will it be any time soon, ready to even see, never mind accept.