Out of my four hobbying experience I've been offered sex without a condom 2 of those times. surely, i'm not the only one they're offering this service to.  I was able to muster up the courage to respectfully decline but i admit it was a challenge. If I were single I probably would've succumbed to the temptation. Has the reality of HIV faded over the decades?  Is is that we have a younger generation of providers who didn't grow up during the HIV era? Otherwise i wouldn't care (since i'll always keep covered) but since i like DATY it makes me a bit nervous.  What does everyone else think?

from holster Place one round in cylinder Cock the hammer place to temple and pull the trigger 'nuff said

so I'll just link ya:

I have been a hobbyist for 10 years. NO PROVIDER, has ever offered to have sex with me without a condom. EVER. I imagine the ladies you encountered were not well reviewed TER providers (one hopes). I can guarantee there is no TER member who would consider having intercourse with a provider without the use of a condom and there is certainly no provider who values her life that would ever offer sex to a client without having him wearing a condom. I always thought those women who offered sex without a condom were the desperate crack whores walking the street corner at 3:00AM who needed cash. Obviously, in this day in age with STD's a condom is a must. Period. End of discussion.  

In terms of DATY, yes there is a risk to both hobbyists and providers, depending if there are any open sores on tongues, or vaginal area, etc.  Eat pussy at your own risk. (It's a small risk, though)  

-- Modified on 9/20/2007 1:06:06 PM

I have never been offered. I have some doubts this really happened.

I'm not going to say it doesn't happen, but twice out of four times? Even if he's trolling CL, still seems a bit unlikely.

but ONLY with ladies I've seen 3+ times. I've been invited to homes, for weeks at a time, for weekends etc.  Once you become very close, it DOES get offered off the clock.  I know a few who offer it on the clock too, but will remain MUM on that.

I can only imagine the types of girls you are frequenting that would offer this.

Yet again you assume that anything in the hobby that hasn't happened to you, hasn't happened to anyone.

"I can guarantee there is no TER member who would consider having intercourse with a provider without the use of a condom".

This statement is laughable. Do you know all of the thousands of TER hobbyists? Don't try to speak for all of us, OK?

It goes on, even with well reviewed providers. It is just not talked about. None of the people involved need any lectures from you.

once. It wasn't premeditated Just in the heat of the moment with a very classy well reviewed lady that I was seeing on a regular basis. All times after that were covered b/c I figured if she would do it for me she probably is doing it with others and that wasn't a pleasant thought.

these were both well reviewed providers-one independent and the other from a well respected agency.
and i'm not lying-could they have been 'testing'
me? possibly but i doubt it.

I think we are quite naive if we think or just hope that everyone will be safe and not do BBFS.

I had a provider I had seen a number of times just plug me in bbfs no questions asked at the beginning of the year. I did not know she was going to. We were enjoying some privates to privates massage and suddenly little OFF went deep.  

About a month later, while I was seeing another lady it came time for the main event and she took a little baby oil rubbed it on the kitty and was ready to proceed. I had never seen her before and that was a great test of resistance because she was beautiful with incredible tits however, the big head overruled. BTW I asked and she said she did not want to be reviewed, because she was UTR.

Since that time, I have had BBFS offered three more times. I have also quit seeing those providers.

We encourage everyone to be wise and to play smart but lets face it ... there are many here who are not and consequently will do as much as the other participant will allow.

Sad but reality,

OFF

Related Gratuitous "Everyone Needs to Get a Grip" Boobiage

That's just a little more GFE than I'm looking for

This issue has always bugged me so please allow me to vent.

If you think that BBFS is not out there, I have some ocean front property in Arizona you might also be interested in. It is out there more than you can imagine.  We get reviews stating it all the time.  We do not allow them to post because of liability issues.

Before everyone freaks out, let me explain.  Many providers do offer this service on a limited basis to special clients.  Some providers are less limited than others.  Very rarely is this service made available to everyone who walks in the door.  When it is offered, the provider is not expecting you to tell 100,000 of your closest friends about it.

Imagine this….  
We allowed those reviews to post.
A member reads the BBFS review, wants that service
He decides to see this provider based upon BBFS.
The provider only offered that service once to a long term, married client that she felt she could trust not to have any problems.
She does not make this service available to this customer.
The customer is upset because he read it in a “Review”
She refuses.
Customer forces the issue.
Someone gets hurt.
This is a problem that we do not want any part of.

“But what about warning the public????”  
We did an experiment one time just to prove a point.  I bought a prepaid phone.  Posted an fake ad in LA(oh no!), had a well established member post a BBFS review, and waited.  The day the review went up over 500 calls came in on that phone.  It ran out of minutes so I don’t know how many we missed.  I think we are doing a better job saving the public by not posting bbfs reviews.

Of course TER always recommends using condoms for intercourse but when it all comes down to it there are two consenting adults in that room.  If both of them choose to take that risk, nothing is going to stop them. If you are worried about the risk, then you need to take YOUR own safety into YOUR own hands  

-- Staff

Have you ever really contemplated how many men and women play in the hobby (and BTW TER is not representative of everybody in the hobby)? It is a large scale and significant population of folks and not a small covert club made up of exclusive participants.

With so many people engaged in the hobby it is absolutely ludicrous to think that all segments of this vast population have the same education, ideals, principles or concerns when it comes to safe sex.  Of course BBFS happens and it probably happens with far more frequency then most will admit because quite frankly most don't want to even think about it.  It happens and it happens daily...

that providers have so far kept mum on this thread.

Do you really need one to read the script?

Any lady with half a brain would vehemently deny ever even considering BBFS, even if she did it every 3rd time.  To say anything else would immediately transfer her customer base to the higher risk group looking for it, and losing the majority of responsible hobbyists.  So, what's the point of responding?

I think that to engage in unprotected sex with anyone, without a monogamous relationship and blood work... well, that is really not too smart.  Here I was in a marriage... and I thought I was safe as I did not hobby then... and guess what, she winds up pregnant by another guy... so, there are NO (read ZERO) guarantees that the person you are engaging with in sex, has not been exposed to another little surprises... and other than HIV - there is HPV, all sorts of bacterial infections, to say nothing of parasites...

I appreciate the warning from staff.  I really would encourage everyone to ask a simple question... are you ready to die.  it really is that simple.

Again thanks.

isn't that what aliases are for?

Never been offered and I hope to God that I have the courage to "just say no" if it ever is presented as an option.  BTW, there is no SO to be concerned with.

Im new to most the acronyms (but learning)

Im just curious if a provider who offers BBBJ is considered risky/sleazy/dangerous/crack whore??

I am guessing/assuming that BBBJ's are far more common and accepted than BBFS?

Thanks,
Sheri

Next thing your gonna tell us is that some providers and hobbyists have actually become friends... Hardy? Hardy are you still there??--lol..

First I read threads about romance between providers and clients, and now you guys are engaging in bare-back?!  Why don't you just go the whole nine yards, and stop engagaing in this business altogether, because romance and unprotected sex are the LAST things that should be happening in this game.  Don't get me wrong, I love you ladies.  I really do.  I'm glad this industry exists (well, I'm sorta glad).  And this is a free country, or at least it's supposed to be.  But if providers are really engaging in BBFS in a 50% ratio, as sorry-@ss claims, then you girls are truly fucked up.  I'm not a doctor, but if you catch HIV, you will probably DIE!  Is that good for business?  How much money will you rake in after you're dead and buried?  Is that the latest trend in the industry?  Yeah, I can see the progression now:  BBBJ...BBBJTC...BBBJTCIM...GFE...PSE...ODB (One Dead B*tch!).  

It's none of my business, but if you ladies are offering this service regularly, you may want to at least raise your prices to cover your shortened career life-expectancy.  Frankly, I've never had unprotected sex with anyone, ever, inside or outside of this hobby.  Never ever.  And I don't plan to.  I know the odds of contracting an STD or having an unplanned pregnancy are probably slim... and it still isn't worth the risk to me!  I've never EVER EVER EVER EVER been offered BBFS in this hobby, and I agree with Keystonekid -- if I'm ever made this retarded offer (BY ANYONE), I hope I have the strength to turn it down.  But women are supposed to be the gatekeepers of sex -- men are supposed to ask you for bareback, and you're supposed to say NO!  Not the other way around!

You might as well say "I've played Russian roulette and I've never died."  All it takes is once.

I too am shocked that this really goes on. I suspect it happens less than some claim, but do not doubt it happens. However, my shock is genuine at the fact that any provider or hobbyist would choose to engage in something so risky. What in the world is the point? I completely agree that intimacy within boundaries and safer sex are the name of the game in this hobby, and cannot imagine why anyone would enter this hobby seeking either of the aforementioned topics- romance or bareback. On occasion, romance happens without intention, and that's fine- I'm not getting into it. But bareback in the context of the hobby? Come ON people. It is not worth the risk. I see it this way- it is not worth the risk in my civvie life, so how could it ever be worth the risk with a stranger or paid partner? and if someone decides that it is worth the risk with their (monogamous, civilian) partner, fine. If you are truly monogamous, you don't mind if you get pregnant because you intend to have a family together anyways, you've been tested regularly- whatever- risks are minimized but not eliminated. But to even think of engaging in it with a paid provider (or a paying client) is absolute nonsense. I worry that the women offering this are either desperate (addicted, intoxicated) or extremely emotionally screwed up. The professionals I associate with would never consider it. "Yeah, they just say that to save face." I don't associate with many providers, but the ones I do are amazing and honest individuals, and we can talk about such things without shame. And no one I know would ever engage in bareback in this business. Any reasonable-minded, self-respecting professional woman knows this to be true. No doubt there are women out there with low self-esteem and patterns of self-harm, bipolar disorder or other conditions resulting in impulsive and dangerous behavior, addictions to feed, or who are intoxicated at the time, who offer this- however, I respect myself wayyy too much to put myself at risk of a lifelong, incurable disease or even death. Yes, not everyone who takes those risks get infected- but why take the risk? You are gambling with your health and your life for one moment of pleasure- pleasure which could still be had in safe ways- I believe those among us who have suffered health problems big or small will attest that while the healthy people don't give their health a second thought on a day-to-day basis, those who don't have it are acutely aware of it every day of their lives. And if you get a disease, it will severely inhibit your ability to find sexual partners and/or enjoy sexual pleasure (men and women both), in addition to pretty much ruining your career and reputation as a provider (ladies)- so while, yes, this is a public health issue and an issue that affects everyone within this community, it is also a very sacred, sexual, personal decision- one that seems very clear to me.

XoXo
Marea

I don't think any rational person could ever say BBFS isn't going on in the hobby.  But I'm always amazed to hear these stories of how frequently. I've been (very) actively  hobbying for 10 years now,  have hobbied all through out the country, and the opportunity for bbfs has been presented exactly  3 times. A very rare occurrence indeed.

So, when everyone clamors about how frequently this happens in hobby land, I just wonder what pond they are fishing for providers in.

Crazy. It's just crazy. I get uneasy when a gentleman wants to jerk off with his cock even remotely close to my vajayjay. Nope. Sorry. Not interested in intermingling all of those things together.

I had a very regular client ask me the other day (he sees me at least once a week) if he could "put it in just one time" the answer was an unequivocal NO. Why would someone even ask? Why would a girl even do that?

Recently I had a very good friend of mine who got drunk and slept with one of her friends. They didn't use a condom. I yelled at her for 10 straight minutes. There are risks with oral but nothing like having someones dick in your vajayjay. Not gonna happen.

I think that every once in a while a person comes along that I wouldn't mind feeling bare back but I would never in a million years offer it. It's like taking your life and throwing it to chance. NOT interested.

I get asked all the time for BBFS.  I even get offered more money.  I always refuse, of course.  But I'm always left wondering WHY I'm being asked.  I've always thought that it must boil down to one of two things.  One:  there must be plenty of girls out there who are doing it.  Two:  Does something about me say "skanky 'ho"?  Why, when I advertise "playing safe" would someone think that more money would make me play Russian Roulette with my health?  I've checked with my girlfriends and they too get requests all the time.  I wonder if the ladies who are doing it are doing so because they feel they must because of the number of requests, just don't understand the risks, or just plain don't care??  What I REALLY don't get is why anyone in their right mind would even ask?

She was a regular of mine and quite popular. She was very nonchalant about the whole thing with just a simple "At least I can't get pregnant that way".

I refused and haven't been back.

I wasn't going to post because I'm dealing with some family issues right now, but I cannot believe you think providers would not respond to this thread. Perhaps we work late, etc., or just getting on the board to read it.

Anyone, I repeat anyone who does this without using protection is just plain stupid with a capital "S".  You're not only risking getting HIV or other infections, but you're also sleeping with everyone that he/she is sleeping with. I can't even believe that people even assume it's okay. If I knew a guy did bareback (which I have some suspicion on a few guys that might), I would not see them -- period. I can't even believe anyone from TER or otherwise would even suggest nonchalently {sic} that it's up to the person. Yea, if it's up to that person, then that person should at least be a stand-up guy or lady and tell the next person so we all don't come down with something funky.

Unfreakin' believable!

Yet, I know there are guys who consider it the holy grail of hobbying, and women who do it-- at least part of the time.  

There was one time I thought she was offering it. I mean, we were hot and in position, and she wasn't reaching for raincoat. Whereas in the session before, she put it on with an expertise that startled me. This time I had to stop and put it on with my shaky, slippery hands, and she didn't help.  

I do have a friend who says he was given BB a few times. He said both times the provider initiated it. On one of them, I remember he said she was on him in CG, stopped, and took the condom off. Then started CG again. He said she had her tubes tied.  Now, he wouldn't lie about that. He's not the sort of guy who would negotiate or ask for that either. He just couldn't turn it down.

Neither examples were negotiated. They were YMMV situations. Both examples are cases where the provider apparently wasn't planning it, she just wanted BB then.  It happens if woman also likes the business as a kink and loses her sense of responsibility. I could see the same women getting indignant, vehement, if a guy tries to negotiate it.  

It's a wrong kind of thrill. Diseases aren't-- very thrilling, and they don't pump your adrenaline.  

-- Modified on 9/21/2007 12:42:43 AM

Sometimes, pictures are worth a million soothing words.

MMMMMMMMMM where to even begin....
First: offering BBFS means you're asking for a death sentence IMHO.  I'd be a fool to say I've never had BBS (sex) but that's my personal life and that's why I now have a child LOL.  In the business though, WOW!!!  Wild things run threw my mind like, black lesions on my body from having contracted HIV....or warts that won't stop itching because in the heat of the moment the condom was disposed of....or maybe a vaginal drip that won't stop because you have some kind of STD but not sure you want to even know.  ICK!!!! NASTY!!!  and GROSS!!! are some words that come to mind right away.

Second: not only is a provider or hobbyest putting herself or himself or both at risk, but also the health of other hobbyest and/or providers.  There are a few examples that come to mind when this subject comes up.  The first one is the case with a provider from Sacramento who contracted Herpes from her personal life.  Some say she knew ahead of time and was still providing FS, while others and herself said she was tested after the issue was brought to the attention of the greater communities and miraculously she had it.  Whether it was from her personal life or not, no one really knows.  Was it good for her to announce it?  Yes, but how late was it for other guys and maybe girls???  Bad news IMO.  The second example is a personal one of my own.  I was in an appt with another provider who is well known and another gentlemen.  We had all been drinking and were having a great time.  We moved things to the bedroom and continued basking in the glory of great company, good wine and a soon to be fun, bed wrestling match.  Most here who know me or have read my reviews know that I am a cbj only girl with no exceptions.  However; the provider I was with is a bbbj girl.  Great!!!  Perfect combination!  Well, I begun with a cbj while she entertained his mouth and then we switched.  She removed the condom, proceeded with a bbbj and then to my suprise, jumped on and rode the horse like a true cowboy with no condom!!!  I was so appauled personally, I didn't know what to do next.  I know my sexual ambition went out the window at that point and I was pretty apprehensive about the whole situation after that.  Can we blame it on the wine?  Maybe, but there has been a few times where I have had my fair share to drink and that has never ever crossed my mind or been forgotten.  Scary part number one to me, I just DATY'd that girl.  Scary part number two, how many girls does this guy do that with?  Scary part number three, how many guys has she done this with?   EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!  Talk about a real stomach turner.  (I was tested a week later and was fine thank goodness but WOW!!)

While I know this isn't unheard of in the hobby it just makes my skin crawl at the thought of people, men and woman, caring so less about themselves for one small moment of bliss that could cost you a lifetime.  Why be so careless and have such lack of self worth for a 20 second rush, if it last that long even??  

There is no cure for AIDs, HIV, Herpes, Gentel Warts, or Hep C and most likely won't be for a lonnnnnnnnnnng time to come so why jeapordize your life?  Like I said I'd be a fool to say I've never had sex in my personal life without a condom, but I also was checked before as was he and I still get checked every three months because of topics like these.  

Pople that are willing to engage in such activities really aren't thinking about anyone including themselves as they are endangering a lot more people than they probably know, or know but don't care at all.

As for the post regarding why providers aren't responding to this post.  I think when you wrote it, at least in my interpretation, it was directed more towards the male community as you were asking if anyone else has experienced this.  That most likely is limiting the response from providers, but also like I believe lil phil stated, why would a provider want to come out and say, "hey I've done it, no worries, still see me, here's my website."  Highly unlikely that that will happen.  

I truly hope you didn't engage in the offered services and I hope you realize that you still put yourself at some risk but even continuing the appt with the provider after that was offered.  If you've been offered you can almost be assured others have also.

Playing it safe,
Tasha

Yes, condoms make sex safer. That is not the same thing as safe.

The Related Link gives important safer-sex information from UCSF in connection with HIV.

The link (http://www.rhtp.org/std/types.asp ) gives brief summaries regarding the common STDs, including infection rates for most of them. What it lacks is any information on the effectiveness of condoms in preventing transmission of these diseases.

Here is an important quote from a second source (http://www.epigee.org/health/stds.html ) regarding condom effectiveness.

-----------------------------
It is important to recognize that sexual contact includes more than just intercourse. Sexual contact includes kissing, oral-genital contact, and the use of sexual "toys," such as vibrators. There really is no such thing as "safe" sex. The only truly safe sex is abstinence. Sex in the context of a monogamous relationship where neither party is infected with a STD is also considered "safe". Most people think that kissing is a safe activity. Unfortunately, syphilis, herpes, and other diseases can be contracted through this apparently harmless act. All other forms of sexual contact also carry some risk. Condoms are commonly thought to protect against STDs. Condoms are useful in helping to prevent certain diseases, such as HIV and gonorrhea. However, they are less effective protecting against herpes, trichomoniasis, and chlamydia. Condoms provide little protection against HPV, the cause of genital warts.
-----------------------------

I'm not a doctor, but from reading I'm done (in sources that include The Journal of Sexually Transmitted Diseases) I believe that the two extremes in condom effectiveness may be gonorrhea and genital warts.

Studies indicate gonorrhea will transmit close to 100% of the time with a BBBJ and only about 5% of the time with a CBJ. Condoms are about 95% effective in preventing oral transmission of gonorrhea.

Condoms are about 86% effective in preventing transmission of HIV. However, HIV -- in the absence of cofactors such as genital lesions -- will transmit from an infected male to an uninfected female in only about 1 in 500 acts of unprotected vaginal intercourse. Condoms decrease that risk to about 1 chance in 3500.

Actually, the risk may be lower than indicated above. I quote from the Related Link.

-----------------------------
The efficiency of heterosexual transmission of HIV and per-act risk of infection are the subjects of debate in the epidemiologic literature. Early epidemiologic studies on heterosexual transmission in Western countries established that male-to-female transmission in the vagina was significantly more likely than female-to-male transmission from the vagina,(39,40,43,61,62) with estimates in three studies ranging from 1.9,(40) 2.3,(61) and 8.0 (62) times greater efficiency of male-to-female transmission. Per-act infectivity in two studies (62,63) was found to be low: 0.0005 and 0.0009 for male-to-female transmission, and 0.0003 and 0.0001 for female-to-male transmission. However, studies conducted in developing countries have estimated that per-act transmission probabilities are greater by a factor of 10 (44,64) for both male-to-female and female-to-male transmission.(65)
-----------------------------

If you are a woman and your partner is infected with the appropriate disease you are more likely to get gonorrhea from a CBJ (1 chance in 20) than you are to get HIV from BBFS (1 chance in 500 at most in the absence of other STDs).

The CDC says, "The surest way to avoid transmission of sexually transmitted diseases is to abstain from sexual intercourse, or to be in a long-term mutually monogamous relationship with a partner who has been tested and is known to be uninfected." I don't think anyone can argue with that.

However, one should remember that there are risks in modern life besides STDs. For example, I am probably more likely to be injured or killed in an auto accident on my way to see a companion than I am to catch a STD from her.

Note that although condoms are a risk reduction measure they are not the only one that is effective for the heterosexual population. I quote again from the Related Link.

-----------------------------
Early research on selection advised that the choice of a partner was the most important determinant of transmission of HIV during a sexual encounter.(55) Current research has shifted emphasis from an explicit concern with absolute numbers of sexual partners to a model that situates an individual's selection of sexual partners in the context of the population seroprevalence, the likelihood that an individual has been tested for HIV, the likelihood that the test result was accurate, the likelihood of infection through insertive or receptive oral, vaginal, or anal sex, and the degree to which condom use reduces the probability of transmission during these acts. The model shows that individuals can reduce their risk by choosing a partner who has tested HIV negative, choosing a safer-sex act, using a condom, or some combination of these factors. For heterosexuals, whose population prevalence was modeled at 1%, choosing one risk-reduction behavior substantially reduced the absolute risk of HIV infection. However, for men who have sex with men (MSM), whose population prevalence was modeled at 10%, the choice of only one risk reduction behavior did not significantly lower the absolute risk of HIV infection.(56) As these models draw their assumptions from the epidemiology of HIV in developed-country settings, the applicability of their conclusions to high-prevalence heterosexual epidemics in the developing world seems limited. It is therefore important in high-prevalence settings to continue to encourage risk reduction behaviors that include both safer sex practices and HIV testing.
-----------------------------

Hopefully, both companions and their clients are health conscious and get tested for STDs including HIV. In Los Angeles AIM (http://www.aim-med.org/ ) will test everyone, including "civilians" not in the adult industry. AIM isn't free ($300 for their STD “Everything” panel), but compared to the other costs of this hobby it isn't a huge cost.

I don't think the question is whether to get tested, it is how often to get tested. That is a question I do not have a definitive answer for. I believe the adult industry requires their performers to get tested once a month for HIV and I think Nevada has the same requirement for ladies working in the legal brothels with weekly testing for other STDs.

I don't believe it would make sense to get tested more frequently than monthly. For most clients how frequently to get tested would seem to depend primarily on their level of sexual activity. It is a complex question and as I said, I don't have a definitive answer.

Some people like to say that when you have sex with a person you are having sex with everyone they have ever had sex with as far as STDs are concerned. It would be more correct to say that you are having sex with everyone your partner has had sex with since his (or her) last test.

I will say that personally, my greatest concern has been HIV because there is no cure and it is fatal.

Computer modeling indicates that the at-risk population for becoming HIV positive is (1) men who have sex with men, (2) IV drug users who share needles, and (3) anyone, man or woman, who has sex with anyone in the first two groups. If you aren't in one of these three groups you are extremely unlikely to become HIV positive.

It is too bad that sex comes with risks, but life isn't always what we would like it to be. My wife died in January. She had lung cancer metastasized to the bones. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. In the end something nasty will probably get all of us.


-- Modified on 9/21/2007 4:16:13 AM

To pharaphrase Captain Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that barebacking is going on...I mean afterall, eveybody knows all the kids brought into the world today are all cloned.

A lot people seem to think they are Rick or Voctor Lazlo in Casablanca, but they are really just another Major Heinrich Strasser.

Safety over freedom!  Works everytime!

I certainly appreciate the kind reference to Omniscience. Until you made mention of it, I never really considered that I had the capacity and ability to know everything. Thank you so much for bringing it out in the open.  

KeepDreamin, that was a really nice thing to say about a fellow hobbyist and I wish you and yours well. Your thoughtfulness to make mention of personal character traits was so touching.

I also appreciate your willingness to read my entire posts and comment with such passion. It shows that you are a caring man who wears his true emotion on his sleeves.

I only hope one day that I can meet the high lofty goals you have set in this hobby. You are an inspiration to us all.

Yes, it happens. Personally, I view BBFS as akin to playing Russian Roulette with all chambers loaded. There isn't enough money in the world to convince me to do it, regardless of whether you have a nifty piece of paper claiming that you are disease free or not.

It never ceases to amaze me though, how many gentlemen ask me for it. At least one every week gives me the same tired lines about not being able to cum with a condom, then he usually offers an extra tip, and assures me that he's clean.

My response to them is always the same - if I say yes to you, how the hell do you know I didn't say yes to the last 5 guys I saw? They always look surprised as though they had never thought of that themselves.

sooner or later

It exists.  As much as the public responses by many claim that they know nothing about it, therefore it cannot possibly exist (Which is typical of the logic of small minded individuals), it exists and is much more prevelant than anybody wants to admit.  

I relate it to the public perception by the unwashed masses about this "hobby".  If you ask the typical non-hobbyist who knows nothing about any sort of escorting, they will say that since they know nothing about it, it does not exist.  Same thing here.

Anyways, these posts on Boston CL prompted me to post this.



-- Modified on 9/21/2007 6:19:51 AM

-- Modified on 9/21/2007 6:26:37 AM

thanks for the info.
as i mentioned, i didn't partake on either occasion but we were having wine at the time and it occurred to me that the chances of me accepting her proposal were directly related to how close we were to the bottom of that bottle.  and like you, i had DATY before she offered. maybe i should stop bringing alcohol to these trysts.

No, I have never really contemplated how many men and women play in the field. Since I have I have seen over 100 providers, and those providers prob. on average have 10 reviews, I would venture to say that the number of clients/providers exceeds 1000...but I could be wrong in my estimation.

I will take your word for it that it is a large scale. I thought TER was the end all...thank you for enlightening me that TER is only a small representaion of clients/providers.



-- Modified on 9/21/2007 7:02:24 AM

Even with a civvie girlfriend?  I recommend you find a nice girl, get all tested and try it out.  It's like flying first class.  The back of the airplane never looks the same again

For the record, I do not advocate BB outside of a monogamous relationship where you've both gotten a clean bill of health.

I'm not sure that you intended this to be a response to what I wrote, but if you did, you apparently misread my intent.

What I was saying was that there was no NEED for a provider to respond, because their objections would be obvious.

I'm smart enough to know that you're not going to publicly state her name, but can you tell me, here or privately, if she's someone that I've had the "pleasure?!?" of knowing?

Thanks...

While I don't think BBFS is all that common I have had it offered twice in the last two years, both times by well-reviewed providers with high ratings.
Of course, not all that common is still too much for the safety of the larger community.

i was hoping to pm you this info but only my real handle appears. based on your reviews you haven't met either one.

I was asking Tasha.  She & I play/work in the same pond, so my question was whether I knew the lady she referred to.

Thanks tho, and if you PM'd me, I wouldn't rat you out, but I understand the reluctance.

But if you take that logic to its ultimate conclusion wouldn't that mean you should require every client to tell you how many times he's done DATY? After all, there's also a risk from engaging in unprotected oral sex (which I do every chance I get), if not the major viral diseases at least the bacterial and parasitic ones. Now I myself have never been offered BBFS and I'd like to think I'm smart enough to refuse if ever offered (though with some women it would be really tempting).

So the consensus seems to be that BBFS is NOT a regular occurrence, but what are the risks of BBFS or DATY, even w/o completion?

I don't date civvie women.  And, even if I did, I sure as hell wouldn't trust them to be monogamous.  Besides, HIV tests are not quite as effective as you think.  My doctor told me that HIV can remain "dormant" and undetected in your system for up to six months after being infected.  Frankly, I'm always amazed by the level of trust that people place in others.  How well can you really know someone that you'd be willing to put your life in their hands?

Too bad, cause I wouldn't f*ck her with your dick.  But thank you very much for pointing this out to everyone here.  This is, I believe, the second time I've seen such an offer.  I once saw a similar ad in New York, where a provider claimed to be on her period and was offering bareback (yuck!).  The prices were also shockingly low for such a service.  I mean, if you're offering BBBJ and covered FS for 150, how much would you charge if everything was covered?  $100?  $75?  That sounds like the crackhead sale of the century!

I quote from the Related Link.

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Antibody tests may give false negative results during the window period, an interval of three weeks to six months between the time of HIV infection and the production of measurable antibodies to HIV (so-called seroconversion). Most people develop detectable antibodies approximately 30 days after infection, although some seroconvert later. The vast majority of people (99%) have detectable antibodies by three months after HIV infection; a six-month window is extremely rare with modern antibody testing.[3] During the window period, an infected person can transmit HIV to others although their HIV infection may not be detectable with an antibody test. Antiretroviral therapy during the window period can delay the formation of antibodies and extend the window period beyond 12 months.[4] Antibody tests may also yield false negative results in patients with X-linked agammaglobulinemia; other diagnostic tests should be used in such patients.
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AIM uses the PCRDNA test (a nucleic acid based test) which shortens the window period between infection and detectability of disease to about 12 days.


-- Modified on 9/21/2007 6:43:08 PM

determining viral load.  It is also independent from the immune systems ability to mount an antibody response.  Ask for it by name.

Thank you for the information.  But it doesn't change my view of unprotected sex -- namely, I don't plan to ever have any.  But everyone here can feel free to have all the unprotected sex they want.  Similarly, I don't use illegal drugs, but I wouldn't stop other people from enjoying them.  I also wouldn't jump off a bridge, but... well, you get the point.

Why do you think you were offered bareback sex

I have been offered bbfs it seems like more often than not, i don't know if its just me or what but it seems like these ladies luv getin one shot up in them.  If it looks smells tastes and feels right im all in.

that is a really great point. being a provider . Once again shows the level of care and concern ter has  for all ..hobbyists and providders .Many kudos thank you . It does depend upon the situation and everyone needs to respect oneanothers values. lol yes providers have values.. I aim to please but cant please everyone thenk you ter

the same argument could be made for anal or BBBJ. Some providers onyl offer these to repeat customers or other special circumstances.

With all do respect, your argument does not really hold up.

But hey, your board, your rules. I am grown up enough to know that...