For cowards such as myself such a discovery could be quite liberating--i.e. force decisions that we are otherwise unwilling to make. I think about it this way--someone who's hobbying and discovers his SO's dalliance could infer one of two things: She has some untapped/unsatisfied sexual desire that the hobbyist did not know about. Now that he knows, perhaps the couple can discover new sexual horizons together. Or, she has those desires, but just not for our poor hobbyist. In that case I think our timorous hobbyist could come clean (after a manner) and the couple could agree to go their separate ways given their separate desires. Of course, no break is ever clean but as a much more logical mind than mine once said "there are always possibilities".
Below, Zoro asked a question about marriage and the hobby, my response may have seemed a bit harsh, but my reasoning for the harshness and the brutality of it is simple. We all know what this hobby is, and what it has the potential to do to any civie relationship. Many come to this hobby simply because of what does (or more frequently, does not) happen at home. I had more than my share of "Bad behavior" when married to Ms. Superdude. While faithful to her, I did other things to create a bad marriage, certainly it is true that we did not have a loving relationship.... My point? I did try to have a loving relationship, but could not "make" her happy. Funny thing is, that SHE always wanted the perfect body, and for me to be a young "Stud" - and while I am ok, I don't think that anyone would mistake me for Brad Pitt, or Matt Damon, or any of the other hollywood hotties! This desire, on her part, made her unattractive to me, it had little or nothing to do with her outward appearance.... but let's face it, whatever excuse that one uses to hobby, be honest with what the hobby is....
For my part, I love the hobby, it allows me to be friends with beautiful women (granted for the low low price of $$$ per hour, as opposed to $$$,$$$ per annum!), have, in some instances, mind blowing sex, and variety. As a bonus, when I am tired, I can leave and not have to listen to their problems (take on the world, their kids' woes or whatever). Is that being responsible? No, it is not, but it is a whole lot better than an entaglement that I could not or would not wish to commit to.... This hobby also keeps me from creating more hurt and sorrow to others (by being unfaithful to them) in the process, just because I cannot commit.
So you see, for many participation in this hobby, I feel, is justified - whatever the differences are that drive the various men to it, seldom do I see a "Vengence" motive or a need to punish their spouse, rather I see, a "hey, I want to stay with my wife, but (for whatever reason) she is not interested in me sexually now.... but she is my lifelong companion... that is why I hobby, to satisfy that one small part of me, that my wife no longer has the ability to satisfy - otherwise she is perfect..." and in that sense the hobby saves the marriage.... Honestly, I have no problem with that.... And remember, this is a very old approach to this issue of continual sexual drive in men....
Zoro's post, was the opposite of that, and the good people that suggest that he should leave her, both for his good and hers was, IMHO, right on target.....
We witness, everyday, a person imposing his or her sexual desire on an unwitting or innocent recipient of that desire. would that that perpetrator could go to a provider, pay a little cash and act out the need to express the sexual activity... that would be a lot better than raping an underage kid, or for that matter, shooting up an Amish school yard....
IMHO by legalizing the hobby, perhaps we keep some (not all but even if it pervented one incident it would be worth it) of the tragically warped folk from perpetrating their particular band of wicked behavior.
I agree with Bizza. But I do ask myself would I be OK with it swinging both ways. How would I feel if I found out my wife/girlfriend was seeking paid or unpaid lovers to satisfy her unfulfilled sexual needs. I try to be equitable but somehow the male ego in me feels more comfortable with the notion that my SO should be faithful in word and deed. This is not an easy conundrum when I really dig deep into it. It is easier to compartmentalise it all into a little box with the lid tightly on.
My ex went out with other guys right in front of me when I refused to give up the hobby for her sake. I guess she was trying to make me jealous; but like the yiddish vampire said to the woman holding up the crucifix in Roman Polanski's "Fearless Vampire Killers", "Oy, have you got the wrong vampire, lady."
Today Bev and I revel in each other's joys with sex with our various partners/clients. It excites me and she feels the same, and I love to hear how she is having a wonderful time at work. (I should ever get to be so lucky!)
For cowards such as myself such a discovery could be quite liberating--i.e. force decisions that we are otherwise unwilling to make. I think about it this way--someone who's hobbying and discovers his SO's dalliance could infer one of two things: She has some untapped/unsatisfied sexual desire that the hobbyist did not know about. Now that he knows, perhaps the couple can discover new sexual horizons together. Or, she has those desires, but just not for our poor hobbyist. In that case I think our timorous hobbyist could come clean (after a manner) and the couple could agree to go their separate ways given their separate desires. Of course, no break is ever clean but as a much more logical mind than mine once said "there are always possibilities".
A very wise provider told me she was accosted by another woman who knew of her professiona and was accused of ruining marriages. "I save marriages, honey, not the other way around.", she retored.
But then again, not every marriage is meant to be saved.
Well stated B.
Prostitution is illegal because most women are against it, not because most men are.
Making a marriage work involves two committed people willing to make sacrifices for the sake of the other. Implied is that both will be sexually faithful in that sex and intimacy are often intertwined with expressing love to each other.
Women, being the nesters, are going to see infidelity - even if paid - as a greater threat to the marriage because it puts her in competition with someone who is paid to satisfy men. If she can control the man's sex life, she is more able to get her way in the rest of the marriage.
I've said many times I would not even approach hobbying if I was married, or even if I had a significant other I knew disapproved. I would not do it for her sake and her peace of mind. I can approach hobbying with a clear conscience because there is no "little woman" in my life to come home to.
Unlike some other arguments about vice legalization (drugs, for example), we do have a track record of what prostitution might look like if legalized by seeing how its done in Nevada. Perhaps one should look at the divorce rate in Nevada to see if there is any correlation between legal prostitution and the percentage of happy marriages.
Wouldn't more divorces mean more happy marriages, not fewer?
Think about it.
and should such a comparison not take account of those who move to NV and get the divorce after minimal residence?
Superdude,
So I see your response to me had some baggage attached. Seems like you were married to a female version of myself...perhaps not as self-centered? but definitely not satisfied with you as a partner. Sorry to hear that, really, and I would not last long in such a marriage.
As far as being frieds with providers...no thanks. Yes, there are many very attractive providers out there but I am just here for the sex and for the women to concentrate on me, as they are paid to do. Whenever they want to throw some cash back my way, I am more than willing to do whatever is their desire. Tally it up to my selfishness but if you are any example of what a man should be towards a woman, it has not paid off in you finding a satisfying non-hobbying relationship.
In case anyone is wondering, since my post is now page 2 news, here is my current situation. Things are very civil (too civil) between my wife and I and I am in communication with a couple women from an online dating website.
One of the women seems absolutely perfect to me...same age as my wife but 3" taller, in much better shape, with a much more international viewpoint, loves to travel, seems genuinely Christian (something I aspire to be) and really has movie star good looks. The only problem is that (good for her) she doesn't want to see me (or anyone) who is not unmarried (many women are okay with a guy who is separated but not yet divorced). We have swapped a couple e-mails and she has given me some hope and has asked me to e-mail her again to tell her about my upcoming 4 week trip.
The other candidate seems like a lot of fun and is fresh from Europe but seems to be just a bit heavy and I fear the same feelings that I have with my wife. My wife is a great woman and loads of fun, filled with life, but the physical and intellectual attraction is just not there (my wife is very intelligent but with entirely different interests). We have swapped a couple very positive e-mails but I think I will let this one fade away as I don't want a repeat performance of what I am already living.
Sorry to threadjack but I am taking a bit of license to do so since I inspired this thread.
As far as the hobby goes, I want out. In the last two weeks I probably have had two FBSM's and I don't suppose that I will have more than a FBSM per week until I find what I am looking for in my life. Meanwhile, I am just working out very hard so I can drop some weight and make myself as marketable as possible. I expect things to end with my wife with me, unfortunately, being the bad guy to end them...just too much baggage and I want a fresh start. I am sure we will still be friends (she demands this) but it will be difficult.
I am going far away (10,000+ miles away) next month and we will be apart for four weeks...we have never been apart for more than a couple days...hopefully afterward we will both have the courage to do what is necessary to lead happier lives (and I suspect that means that we will then separate).
Would really like a fresh start to 2007, as scary as it is.
What is wrong with having providers as friends? I can tell you that on occasion I have been off the clock with them - and they make great friends. Yea, as with any friend, no side should take advantage of the other... that would not be right. In addition, a very few providers that I have frequented, have seen me at my worst, and have tolerated me.... as would any friend. If they asked a favor - would I do it? yea - I would (and have). Would they do me a solid - if I asked? I think that they would - and in fact - one VERY special lady - just sat talking with me through a very difficult night.... She was great. And I did appreciate the genuine emotion of that talk. Under different circumstances.... who knows. But on at least a couple of levels, I am very attracted to her. Even if there would be no "love connection" or marriage, at least I can have the friendship of a great person.... but know what? NOTHING would come out of me shutting that door.... NOTHING - that is If I were to close that door, and deal with it purely as a business transaction, there would not be a friendship... and that would be a loss.
Second, somehow, I still think that you miss the point of the original critique of your outlook. But hey, it is free advice and probably worth what ya paid for it!
What I looked for in a marriage, was very different from what you seek. Perhaps the best way to put it is to describe something to you.... once upon a time, I was in church with my then wife - and we usually sat in the balcony (just due to the kidds). I was looking down on this couple who have kids our kids ages. The wife is modestly attractive as was the husband - but that I not what I was jealous of.... during the service, she reached over and just hugged him - briefly.... she had to reach over one of their kids to do this, but she did it. It was as if to reassure him, that she was there - and was there in full support of him. I know, I also cry at movies - particularly one like the 10 things that I hate about you - or win a date with tad hamilton... etc.
Friends with the ex... ok, I know that I have bashed her on this board... but now let me give you a different perspective...
1) one day I locked the keys in my car with the engine still running and my cell phone with ALL the phone #'s of friends who would come and get me to help in the car.... the only # I knew by heart was her phone #.... I called it... and she came and got me.
2) She has helped me with a very sad and emotional duty... and for that I am grateful.
3) We work together - everyday - for the benefit of our kids.... and we must be doing somethings right.... one kid competes nationally in Karate (Black belt) and is on his jr. Hi. varsity sports team, he is also placing out of math... the other kid? on an "A" team for her sport, in the band and is a straight "A" student... and we work at this every single day....
And yes we have our moments, but we have become friends - and I think that we still see in each other the reason that we were originally attracted to each other! so it is possible.
As I say, I know my critique was harsh, but I did, and still do, believe that you need some couch time.... as you seem to think of people as sacks of potatoes........... sorry but I don't happen to think that we are.... Do I have preferences? Do I discriminate on the basis of "looks?" yes, but I recognize the shortcoming of that.... I also recognize that it hurts to be dealt with as a sack of potatoes. I suspect that women with a "lot to offer" in your terms, will have difficulties with "your package" in the long run.... as there will always be someone with a bigger wallet.... or house or playtoys.... think about it.
keeping some of the tragically warped folk from peretrating their particular band of wicked behavior - we allow for freedom of choice.
Recent discussions on the Chicago board have opened my eyes to what legalization is really all about. It is at it's center, all about freedom - the ability to make a choice, which LE and the current administration would rather not let us have with regard to this and other topics.
"Why did God give women a pussy?"
"So men would talk to them"
This otherwise crude, sexist joke sums up a stark reality.
The pussy is the single greatest bargaining tool between men and women. If "pussy" is not in the negotiations a woman must bring forth something else of equal or exclusive value to barter with.
Men can hire maids, cooks, and laundry service both freely and legally. We are easily engaged by sports, hobbies, and even our work. The ONLY universally desired commodity amongst (straight) men is pussy. If the civilian female populace allows legalization or decriminalization of the hobby nearly all of the already precious few benefits of marriage or a committed relationship are nullified.
Although it is easy to see the many social benefits of the hobby’s decriminalization; the strangle-hold on “community property” and planned security in a majority of civilian women’s old age would be rocked to the core. Even if it could be shown as an indisputable deterrent to aberrant, violent, sexual/social crime; civilian women are not going to let the historically held manipulative power that nature put between their legs be legislated away.
So that we would not talk back to them. 
It certainly seems odd that prostituion laws could be held in place by women against men's interest when virtually every other institution seems to favor men over women.
Why should that be?
with surreptitious ties to government, social engineering and taxation.
“Man will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest" (Voltaire)
he is probably being tortured as a terrorist at Guantanamo Bay.