-- Modified on 5/27/2007 5:46:59 PM
I have been thinking about the consquences if the hobby became legal everywhere in the USA. Here are my speculations and questions.
1. It would allow more ladies to be providers and might drive price down. Ladies, would having the hobby be legal be worth a cut in pay? How much (dollars or percent)?
2. It might become subject to taxation, public health participation and other goverment help. This would drive the price up. Guys, would having the hobby be legal be worth an increase in what you pay? How much (dollars or percent).
I realize that there might be other consquences and that even as legal there still might be under the radar providers. Also, if this topic has been raised before my apologies. I haven't seen it.
-- Modified on 5/26/2007 9:33:14 AM
-- Modified on 5/26/2007 9:33:54 AM
Good topic.. I hadn't thought of it from that angle before. For me, I kind of like the fact that I don't have to deal with all the typical bullshit of earning taxable wages and dealing with the government that I (more often than not) do not have much support for lately. On the other hand, it sickens me that peoples' lives are being ruined all the time- just because I haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't happen- for choosing to partake in something that should be completely personal freedom. Legalization of the hobby would seem to be somewhat related to the "harm reduction" approach to drug or alcohol decriminalization.. It would seem good to approach the hobby in such a way as it would promote better health services and protection for both providers and hobbyists if done right.. as the only time the hobby really causes problems is due to the underground lifestyle into which it is pushed, and the fear and reality of LE.. which leads to the point that legalizing the hobby would have much different effects than decriminalizing the hobby..
It is so complicated, but I think overall I would be willing to take a decrease in pay if I did not have to risk being arrested, risk being harmed, or risk being alienated by any family or friends who were to find out what I do for a career. So far its been fun, and as I'm a pretty independent person, the lifestyle and secrecy have not really become as issue, but at the same time I can see how they could and how it may be extremely draining in the long haul to have to lie and hide such a basic aspect of my life. Ideally this would not be necessary, but even if it were decriminalized or legalized, the moral judgments would still be present, so I'm not sure it would change anything in that respect.
Sorry for the rambling post, just my .02
XoXo,
Marea
-- Modified on 5/26/2007 10:31:35 AM
I'd love to hear from anyone in Nevada, both hobbyists and providers. How would you answer the questions he asked? Any other issues also worth mentioning?
-- Modified on 5/26/2007 10:37:22 AM
my first experience in the hobby was at the mustang ranch outside reno, and i have since been to many of the legal houses in nevada.
in nevada the house takes half the money the lady makes so right there the price has doubled. also the lady has to pay room and board to the house , taxes on her earnings, and last but not least if the customer arrives in a taxi the driver gets a cut, sometimes as much as 30%.
the ladies are considered independent contractors and set there own prices. theses are negotiated in the ladie's room (with management listening in)
the last time i was there i had opening price quotes for an hour that ranged from eight hundered to fifteen hundered. i did manage to negotiate a much lower price but i still dont like doing that.
i probably wont go back to any of the houses again because the prices have gotten out of control,(when i started they were much more reasonable), but i did meet a nice lady there on my last trip who i did see several times as an indy. (she lived about a 4 hour drive from me)
any other questions post here or email me and ill try to answer as best i can from the customer point of view.
[email protected]
That making it legal would involve the same sort of local regulations that exist in Nevada-thus driving the price up, not down. Anytime government regulation is involved the price and aggravation factor increases along with that involvement. Many women would probably choose continue to operate outside of the regulated industry in order to stay UTR as far as the IRS in concerned.
While I love the idea of not having to worry about either myself or my favorite ladies getting busted I don't really see legalization changing public opinion about escorts or men who use them. As "insiders" I think most of us share a realistic view of the hobby. Society as a whole is not so understanding. Even if it were legalized I still wouldn't predict a lot of ladies putting "escort" on their resumes if and when they decide to move on to another occupation.
-- Modified on 5/26/2007 8:00:01 PM
Legalization in Nevada is only through the licensing of brothels, and only in counties with under 400K people. From my point of view, that's only "legalization" and not really legalization. If it were truly legal, people would be able to become licensed individuals and practice anywhere they wish. I really don't see what the Brothels-Only system really helps other than making sure prices stay inconveniently high with lots of palms getting greased along the way.
The freedom of a truly legal system would allow there to be a wide range of prices and skill levels. I could see well reviewed independents being able to openly command premium prices for their premium services, with some economical agencies catering to the bottom rung while other cater to specificity.
Just like to eat you can get anywhere from a hot dog for $2 from a street vendor through McDonalds for $5 all the way up to a quality 5-star for $100.
As someone that almost bought one, I can say that the rules exist to keep the peace between the people that think prostitution is dirty, and the rural communities that rely on the tax base they create. It's one of the driving forces that create the condom-only approach. The brothel proponents really push the safety from HIV, etc. as a reason they are a positive force. Several communities have had pushes in recent election to get them closed, and each time they've failed miserably. In some of the smaller cities, they're not tucked away at all. They are very much a part of Nevada's history.
All that being said, the prices are higher, and there are more rules. It's not the best system, but that's what happens when you have to please people that will never be your customers.
Nevada allows only a limited number of licenses. So they have very little competition. If it was legal everywhere supply and demand would determine the going rate. But if it was legal the brothels out in the desert would not be able to charge the high rates. They could even be put out of business.
But I don't think the going rates would be much differnt than what the independant escorts are asking now.
IMHO
And began my hobby career about 1997 or so. My personal experience in the legal cathouses around here (there are at least 6 that I know of, maybe more) has been, well.... not very good. VERY expensive, alot of 'don't do this, don't touch that', all resulting in a less than great session. Way too much government regulation. For the same money, you can get 3 or 4 much better sessions with a well reviewed indie. The only good things I can say are it's completely legal, totally safe (as is no diseases, rip-offs, etc.), and you get to pick from a variety of girls. If you by-pass the 'line up' when you first enter, and have a drink at the bar, the girls actually hit on YOU. Quite the opposite from a civie bar. To answer the question, I would STRONGLY support de-criminalization, but not legalization. The latter implies regulation, always a disaster these days. Just let us hobby, and get LE off our backs. If the hobby were de-criminalized, I think the only ones to be hurt would be the rip-offs, both sides, mainly because there would be no fear in reporting the abuse. I really don't think rates would decrease much, at least not for a true GFE, but the 'biff-bam, thank you ma'am' would come down alot. Please feel free to PM me for more info.
Remember that in Las Vegas, the hobby is not legal. You have to go out to counties where the population is less than 100,000, I believe. Even then, I would assume that the majority of the business is being conducted in Las Vegas, so we are not "legal" in any sense of the word.
I think that model works pretty well. It illegalizes streetwalking and brothels, but allows women to provide at home or in a trick pad on a one-on-one basis and advertise discretely.
So it is legal in the state but difficult to access. What does this mean in terms of service or prices?
Just not in densely populated areas. It's roughly an hour from the Las Vegas strip (about the same as Hoover Dam, that gets millions of visitors per year). Prices are higher than in the illegal areas, but there are safeguards. You won't get bonked on the head or robbed, and you won't catch HIV. Homework does the same thing, and lowers the price, but remember that everyone looking to get laid isn't on TER.
Yes, I think everyone wishes it was totally legal here in the "land of the free." Like it is in most other countries around the world.
Secondly it probably would bring the price down, and increase competition. In Germany there are so many girls working the prices have fallen to where it's not worth it for many.
In much of latin america and the far east prices are very low, often in the single digits. But this is serious exploitation of women, and often of children. And in many cases you get what you pay for.
The US and parts of europe are somewhat unique in that ghetto street girls are often quite cheap, and supporting drug habits. While high end courtesans continue to draw a living wage.
If you remove the ability of a professional to earn a decent income you probably end up with only substandard girls.
I don't think we have to worry about change anytime soon however...
Sigh,
TS Jamie
-- Modified on 5/27/2007 5:46:59 PM
I sort of thought that was what this country was supposed to be about.
As for Las Vegas, a long term favorite went there for a month to check it out and found the experience to be a pretty good representation of hell on earth.
I wouldn't wish her experience on anyone.
As for prices, I doubt they would come down much or that many more women would become providers if the government got off their backs.
Why don't we just make the hobby NOT illegal as they view it in Europe and most of the rest of the world. It's not illegal and prices in the U.K. and Europe as still commensurate among the top gals. They pay their own taxes. We don't need the government managing one more thing.
I'm working in Europe this spring, part of the summer and part of the fall so I have first hand knowledge.
Why do I choose to work here? Myriad reasons.
I love being here. It's the opportunity of a lifetime to experience other cultures, visit historic and beautiful places, learn more about the history of our world and still make a good living.
I'm not living in fear of getting busted. In the states, I assume everyone who calls or writes me for an appointment is a cop until they can prove otherwise. Not having to worry about that adds a LOT more joy to an already enjoyable experience.
Great mature providers are really appreciated here. It's a nice feeling to know that you are considered beautiful and desirable even if you aren't 22 years old by a much greater percentage of the hobbyists here.
Is it all perfect? Of course not. There are scam artists here and not so nice guys but even simple screening weeds most of them out. It's expensive to tour here and you can never be sure you'll make enough money to cover even your expenses. However, I take the chance and do just fine, most of the time.
Folks just shake their heads when I tell them how law enforcement actively pursues us for purposes of arrest. They ask, "Why? You are two consenting adults and who does it hurt?" You all know none of us are talking about streetwalkers with drug habits and underage truck stop prostitutes or girls imported as slaves.
That is where our law enforcement should target their resources. Not the mid to high end provider and hard working businessman who choose to have some no strings mutually beneficial fun.
Let's face it........it makes the headlines and it's a lot easier for law enforcement to sit at a computer and cull the ranks of gals who advertise on Eros. These are YOUR tax dollars at work folks.
Just My Two Cents and a Kiss to Go With It.
Anneke
For all our ballyhooed seperation of church and state, our laws resemble a theocracy, and not a very nice theocracy at that.
In Europe, where one would expect a stronger influence of the church over state matters as a result of thousands of years of chuch dominance over state matters, they are way beyond us.
I have to guess that their history makes them more wary of having their morals dictated by the church whereas we in the US flatter ourselves with our wonderful First Amendment rights that are more celebrated in the exception than in the rule.
Anneke, I can't wait for your return to the land of the (semi) free. 8o)
Thanks sugar. Can't wait to play again too.
After Saratoga/Albany it's on to Boston and you.
Kisses Waiting,
Anneke
it - the penalties kick in for pimps, and commercial operations.
I will grant there are social issues, like how different is marriage, etc, and how much effort are we going to put into this, instead of something else.
All in all, I think decriminalization would be the way to go - bureaucracies are not helpful here, and I don't see other choices being helpful.
It's basically an issue of competition, that EVERYBODY deals with. Once upon a time I thought I was a dog, but then I started to realize that my activity coincided with exactly how happy I was in my relationship - if the SO treated me like shit, I was out wandering around. If she made me feel half-assed welcome, I wasn't going anywhere.
We have massive mail order bride industry that is all about American men dreaming that some woman will treat them decently, when in fact it's about the local structure more than the individuals involved. If these guys just wanted to get laid, they would not be dragging women across the entire globe.
I saw this in CL the other day, in "an old guys advice to young guys": "if your GF doesn't make you happy, fire her. That's her job." It might be more to the point to say there's no sense hanging around if you aren't happy, but we let ourselves get sucked into long term obligations that are hard to deal with - like kids, you know?
I look back on 40+ years of sexual activity, and if I were doing it again, I'd be much more short-fuzed - just like the rest of life, it's fish or cut bait, there would be no 2nd chances.
I have learned a lot looking at the responses so far. How does it work in Canada? Can anyone enlighten me?
Thanks,
B