Well, I think the stock market and sports are boooooring, too... but, semiotics... whoa! Now _that_ will trip my trigger! Shall we talk signs, signifiers, signifieds, arbitrariness of the sign... or... (and this might cost you just a tad bit extra)signification?
But truly, if "upscale" = the signifier and "rich guy" = the signified, and you don't feel like you are the signified, then maybe somebody a little earthier would suit your tastes better anyway. Just my opinion. Love to all, Anne
I am relatively new to the discussion board (heck - I am relatively new to the website, although NOT new to the hobby) so I don't know if this has been discussed before. However, why do we have to be "upscale" or "distinguished" or any of the other adjectives usually applied to the desired client? We should certainly be able to pay the bill and offer a reasonable tip. But "upscale????" What the heck does that mean?
OK. I earn a decent, comfortable salary which allows me to occasionally indulge in the hobby. I am hygenic, polite, and usually perceived as being considerate and humorous. I look a damn site more like Jack Black than Brad Pitt. But, heck - I was at Woodstock. The real one. I got covered in mud. (I showered immediately upon returning home.) I behave like a gentleman, because that's what is right and that is the way I was raised. I am male and I am gentle, but I don't think of myself as a "gentleman," let alone an "upscale" one. I'm just a nice guy with a little extra cash. Are you looking for nice, profitable customers or suger daddies?
Please stop using the word "upscale." I find it irritating and mildly offensive. It suggests I read The Wall Street Journal. I most certainly do not. I am almost embarassed to be making as nice a salary as I do. It was never part of the plan. There was no plan. There was only luck and the ability to react to what came up. I'm not "proactive" (which isn't a real English word) I am reactive (which is and which is a much better way of running your life.)
WOW. What a wacko to get bent out of shape by the use of these words. But words (signifiers and the meaning of their signs) mean a lot more than most people think they do and this has been bothering me for years as I read the text on various websites.
I will continue to punt, but I am not and will not pretend to be "upscale." Please don't let that bother you. I am a pretty nice guy and, in the absence of rude service, always tip. I guess the alternative to "upscale" is "downscale," but don't let that bother you. I can't talk about the stock market (or sports) because it is boring. But get me started on music, or literature, or movies and I won't shut up.
Well, I think the stock market and sports are boooooring, too... but, semiotics... whoa! Now _that_ will trip my trigger! Shall we talk signs, signifiers, signifieds, arbitrariness of the sign... or... (and this might cost you just a tad bit extra)signification?
But truly, if "upscale" = the signifier and "rich guy" = the signified, and you don't feel like you are the signified, then maybe somebody a little earthier would suit your tastes better anyway. Just my opinion. Love to all, Anne
Saussure hands down, even though much tougher to grasp. Also fond of Eco, although not so much the fiction. Slightly off-topic, but decided I've been missing out on the Lacan front so Amazon got richer and I have reduced the Cu. Ft. available for more stuff in my condo.
BTW, agree with the proposition but not the conclusion. I am far from earthy. And, maybe I am a little bit of a snob, but intellecually not as in "I drive a Benz." Which I don't because it would have been too embarassing.
You do sound like someone with whom I could spend hours conversing. With my luck you probably work in Oregon or somewhere. I'm from Joisey.
almost by definition one who engages in this sort of pursuit is upscale. I tend to think this is an area that is marketed toward high-end consumers, at least, inasmuch as the Joe Blow who's having trouble putting beans and cornbread on the table is not a regular consumer.
Given that I probably grew up within the higher percentiles of poverty level (especially with respect to most of the others here), I can say for damned sure that I am not embarrassed by the salary I make. In fact, I am damned proud of it, again, especially considering from where I came. I think that I got there by being proactive (and yes that is a real word) and positioning myself to (at least) more optimally handle the difficulties that might come my way.
If partaking in an upscale pursuit bothers you may I suggest the link below.
I'll hop off the soapbox for a while, but at least I learned what semiotics means.
Well, so do I. Linguistics being as important to me as it is (HI Anne) maybe it is just the signifier that bothers me. Actually, the sign would not in my case be "rich guy" 'cause I spend every cent I earn. Music, books, films, hobbying in approximately that order.
Well, you have a point. Can't deny it. I am lucky that I am in the position I am in and that I can afford this persuit (along with the other things I can persue like going to Paris for the weekend for a concert series.)
And I am sure you should be proud of where you are. But I am equally sure that for both of us there was hard work and luck. I have been in the right place at the right time (that's luck) and have been open minded enough to take advantage of it (that's my skill.) I can never lose sight of the fact that there must be many equally talented people out there didn't have my luck.
And I give back. Whatever I spend in The Hobby (or in persuit of learning new things) I match in other ways. Having no children of my own, I rent some. WOW could that ever be misinterpreted!!! In my case I do it through Child-Reach.
I have to say I'm kind of with you on that one Socrates17. It sometimes gives you the impression that you're are being prejudiced in some way. Whether you have the money or not, if you're not a two finger totting tea cup drinker you're not good enough. But then again, the provider has the right to be with whom ever she wants as well. Its kind of a catch-22 I guess and since we don't live in a perfect world we just have to make the decision that its their loss as well. I also do believe that some (not all) are looking for the sugar daddy types as well though being in California. (Okay, go ahead and start beating me down with your comments) I'm just basing my observation on my experiences of living here all my life and which is also the same reason I've stayed out of relationships or even dating for over 5 years now. I just haven't found "The One" for me yet and I chose not to settle and although I can please myself and not worry about any negatives that might come of being in a relationship there is nothing like the magic of a woman. I guess this explains why I'm a new member here, hehe. I haven't found the right woman for me yet (I don't mean falling in love or relationships, I know this is a hobby) but I'm still looking and will stick to my guns here as well, I won't settle. Although I can't afford the high ticket, fly first class only providers I'm sure with a little homework I can find what's right for me. Wishing you all well and no hard feelings eh? hehe I'm new, don't be hard on me... (let me be hard on you *wink*)
Hi Electricfire. Thanks for your response. I think, however, that it is not productive to compare Punting with looking for (flashback to Babylon 5) The One.
While, as I said in my reply to Bird's very cogent response, I have had the skill to make the right choices in my "career" (what a joke - it was an accident, officer, I swear) I have made equally poor choices in my love life - walking away from some really terrific women. The hunger for The New, for variety, informs not only my taste in music but my taste in women. Serious Punting is a life-style choice. It has serious downsides (loneliness) but that is how I am made. The more time you spend getting used to it, the harder it will be to change.
THIS IS NOT AT ALL MEANT TO BE JUDGEMENTAL of married Punters!!!!! For me, if I was to get married, I would find it hard to persue The Hobby without my wife's informed consent. I find it nearly impossible not to be honest.
I do read the Wall Street Journal and am not embarrased in the least by what I earn...but the general way upscale is used here means that you can pass three qualifications.
Be polite Be able to pay her fee Have the means to be able to pay her fee without complaining about it and bugging her for a discount.
A downscale client is likely to be rude and either not be able to pay the fee or be a bargain hunter and only pay it after tense negotiations.
It doesnt make any difference whether you prefer The Beastie Boys or Bach. Stock Market or Stock Car racing. You dont have to be on the Social Register.
I would be cool with that definition of "upscale" being applied to me. However, I would just call that being respectful. I interpret the word to have far more egocentric and (to me) pejorative connotations. Somehow, the way the word is used in the websites, I don't think my interpretation is that far off. Maybe you are right and I am wrong. Maybe there is no better shortcut for describing someone who knows how to treat another human. (Notice I did not phrase that "how to treat a woman.")
Why not just look it up in a dictionary? It would be a very... *egalitarian* thing for you to do After all I posted the definition... ah, semantics! If everyone would just understand that each word does indeed have a definitive *meaning* instead of what we WANT it to mean or what we THINK it means or how we INTERPRET it, we'd be able to communicate so much more effectively, don't you think?
A few people pointed out to me that if someone doesn't already know the meaning of "sophisticated," then he probably isn't. LOL. However, I had those definitions there so that people would know what _I_ meant by them. Sophisticated: altered by education, experience, etc., so as to be worldy-wise; not naive. My intent was deter people from asking me questions about my service. That was a while ago. Men who contact me now are far more informed about this "hobby," and I no longer use the word on my site.
I think the problem is that most people, who have never actually looked a word up in a dictionary, may have a *connotation* of that word from it's usage in speech, etc... but still really have no idea of what it ACTUALLY means. I am well educated with a college degree (in journalism, of all things LOL!) but I still love to look up words like this because sometimes their ACTUAL definitions, vs. what I *assumed* they meant based on usage, are completely different.
In the case of "gentleman," my dictionary (The Random House College Dictionary, 1988) cites eight definitions. I wanted to make it clear that I meant meaning 1, "a civilized, educated, sensitive, or well-mannered man," and not meaning 5, "a man of good breeding and social standing, as a noble" or meaning 2, "a polite term for any man." I do not discriminate according to a man's social standing, and I do not consider every man a gentleman.
First, I DO read the Wall Street Journal, because it has valuable info... certainly nothing to do with "class" or "station" or what have you.
It used to be that all Americans regarded themselves as middle-class. Now, that is not good enough... "upscale" is simply a word describing what everyone has decided to be. A marketing term, really.
To me, "upscale" has the same ring as "classy"... just as someone of a higher class would NEVER say "classy", persons who are on a higher social/economic level find the word "upscale" pretty repellent.
For example, "upscale" restaurants usually have gaudy, "rich" decor and bad food, since the "upscale" denizens wouldn't know to pair foie gras in muskat Beaumes de Venise with Scheurebe Pfeffingen any day of the week... so "upscale" eateries are loud, overpriced burger joints awash in "trendy" martinis. Yawn.
By the same token, "upscale" escorts are catering to that deluded clientele... use the word "upscale" and add $100 to the price, and the "upscale" yahoo thinks he's the high-roller. Please!
I don't think the word need concern itself with semiotic analysis any more than "classy", though... again, this is just our tendency to glorify in action. Remember, there are more than 30 "universities" in Ohio...
It WOULD have been fun to have a Barthes essay on escorting though... his essay on professional wrestling (yes it was huge in France in the 1950s) is hilarious. One can only imagine.
Hiya, JHaller-- I actually did LOL when I read your response. Yes, I've read the wrestling essay, and it is hilarious. BUT, what made me laugh is that when I read the first semiotics post, my immediate thought was how amusing it would be to do the sort of analysis you suggest, especially now that we have the venue of cyberspace to muddy the analytic waters, as it were... I know of a couple of journals that would probably jump at such an analysis, especially if it were co-written by a "Hobbyist" and a "Provider." Good grief, I'm still giggling... I hope you have a great day. Love, Anne
"a civilized, educated, sensitive, or well-mannered man," as the word is defined in The Random House College Dictionary. It has little to do with income or social standing to me. I just want to have the company of men I like.
Actually--now don't tell anyone this, but there are lots of men who do. There are people who say they don't know how we women who do not fit our culture's standard of beauty can possibly make it in this business, but I just giggle. If they only knew...
If you come to Southern California, I would love to meet you. There are several women here with whom you would probably enjoy spending time, should you decide to make an exursion out here.
how could I have missed this? If you are once again refering to yourself as a BBW - shame on you! You are no where near as large as your heart (or as you think, for that matter). For those who don't know, Ms. Laurel is about as wonderful a human being as God has ever made. Mix that with her talents and you have one hell of a good time. She gives new meaning to getting a lot of "bang for the buck." :.D
"But get me started on music, or literature, or movies and I won't shut up."
Hmmm... Main Entry: up·scale Pronunciation: '&p-'skAl Function: adjective Date: 1966 : relating to, being, or appealing to affluent consumers; also : of a superior quality - upscale adverb or transitive verb
Do you not think someone who is a gentleman, who treats the ladies with courtesy, and who loves music, literature, or movies, is of superior quality?
Upscale doesn't mean you read the Wall Street Journal. I could show you some emails from some ummm "potential clients" who I would say are NOT upscale, to show you the clear contrast, but I won't... I'll just suggest you check Webster's if a word offends you that much, because it's better to find out what it MEANS before you get all upset. Insofar as affluent goes, generally speaking, you have to be relatively secure financially speaking to afford this hobby, and that's just a fact. It might seem cruel to say it, but honest... I am not interested in seeing clients who are *broke!* I'd rather they use their money for groceries and rent. This is an expensive hobby, so by definition, it appeals to gentlemen who can in some way afford it, whether that means that they have TONS of money, or a little bit extra and this is what they *choose* (because they can afford to choose once their bills are paid) to spend it on.
Hugs* Nicole PS: I don't read the Wall Street Journal either.
Is the need to be egalitarian so overwhelming that you dread being thought of as (dare I say it?) "upscale?" Horrors! Egad! My word! Perish the thought. Better dead than.... "upscale." Next thing you know, your card-carrying days at the ACLU, the AFL-CIO, Save the Children, Save The Whales, Greenpeace, or other whacko groups will be at an end because you will have been revealed to be a..... (gasp) "gentleman." Oh Lord! What is next?
Without making this post too long (& hence too boring), I'd like to say that I feel sometimes we attach more importance to certain words than we perhaps should. The English language is one in which many words, most particularly adjectives, have multiple meanings depending on the context in which they are used. Add to that the fact that the language is in an almost constant state of flux in that regard, & that in many professions or industries have their own particular "lingo." I wouldn't be at all concerned about marketing terms such as "upscale" myself....they're far too many things more important than that with which to be concerned.
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