If people who are not sick don't pay for those who are sick all the time, just how do expect socialized medicine to work? It's very selfish of you to not want to subsidize the chronically sick, and the unhealthy lifestyle of others.

Oh BTW, I have spent most of my adult life without health insurance. I estimate I have spent about $2-3,000 since the late seventies on medical expenses that would have been covered by any but the most expensive policies. So I guess I am part of the problem too. lol

I will admit that the system has sucked hundreds of thousands of dollars out of me anyhow, as an employer I did pay for the health insurance of dozens of other people, and I always felt like I was getting raped. Thanks to Obamacare, and several other factors that are mainly the result of government, I doubt I will ever have a payroll with more than a couple of people on it ever again, but thanks to Obabacare, I can wait until I get sick before buying insurance now, as you can't be excluded for having a pre existing condition.

I just read a post on another board where a woman is asking for the community help to raise some money to help another P4P woman so she can have some surgery.

While that's a nice gesture I don't understand how anyone asking for $ 300+/hr doesn't have health insurance today.

Do any of the women here buy health insurance, or is it more important to buy shoes?

I once had an insurance plan, but it had a very high premium.  And I am a healthy little young thing who never gets sick, so I felt it was a waste of money on my single person income.

Even for an "old guy" like me, I could get about $5,000,000 worth of coverage with a $10,000 deductible for less than a couple of grand a year. I looked into getting such a policy last year and it was more like eight grand for the same policy. I said fuck it, and self insured for another year.

I am weighing the option of self insuring until I am eligible for Medicare. It will cost me somewhere in the neighborhood of a hundred grand to buy the cheapest policy available to me. Do I really expect to spend more than a hundred grand in medical expenses over the next few years? and even if I do get a major illness, what are the chances of me running up over a hundred grand in medical bills before I can buy into the system?

If you forget about all the money I have spent paying for other peoples insurance, I am at least a couple of hundred grand ahead by self insuring for most of the last 35 years or so. If it were not for ObamaCare I would have shifted my bet and bought a catastrophic policy until I reached Medicare age, it seemed to be well worth it for $20-30 thousand, but at well over a hundred grand for the same coverage, I think I will roll the dice.

Sadly, it seems the people who ACA was supposed to help are now getting hosed on the front end and the back end - paying premiums and still having to pay for their medical care, short of anything catastrophic.  Not a political comment, just an observation about the Health Insurance Company Full Employment Act.  I approve of this message.

Well you've made a veyr poor decision.

An I LUV heels, 2!  But with ObamaCare U can get sum cheep insurince.  Better czech!

Assuming that "all" providers anywhere do anything is as dumb as assuming how much money we make.

Personally, yes, I do have health insurance, as do my children; I'm also mostly a stay-at-home mom and work so infrequently that while I do ask $300+ an hour, my annual income is comfortably middle-class and not much else.

Providers have vastly different backgrounds and life circumstances. More varied than hobbyists, I suspect.

OBAMA CARE CONDENSED

 
Here is the 2700 page Obama Care condensed to 4 sentences.....

And it seems to be working, this is according to the plan!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

1. In order to insure the uninsured, we first have to uninsure the insured.

2. Next, we require the newly uninsured to be reinsured.

3. To re-insure the newly uninsured, they are required to pay extra charges to be reinsured.

4. The extra charges are required so that the original insured, who became uninsured, and then became reinsured, can pay enough extra so that the original
uninsured can be insured, free of charge to them.

(THIS IS CALLED “REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH” … OR, BY ITS MORE COMMON NAME, _SOCIALISM_.

The way adult workers gets health insurance is either through their family members and get insurance through them or by getting part time jobs which also makes them eligible for health insurance. When providers have part time job it is impossible for them to be available ay time and with short notice so they require from their clients to book adult sessions ahead of time becomes a necessity

-- Modified on 2/8/2015 10:14:23 AM

-- Modified on 2/8/2015 10:27:22 AM

but I suspect the old system worked every bit as well for you.

As for me, I am most likely going to self insure for at least the next couple of years. The bookies (insurance companies) are simply taking too much juice under ObamaCare for me to justify laying off my action on them. lol

Most people will never accept this fact, but insurance is nothing but gambling, with you betting you will get sick and the insurance companies betting you won't. This is one time I think I will bet "with the house" instead of against it.

Based on my age and general good health, I opted for a catastrophic coverage plan through the exchange. The premium is quite reasonable and I self-insure the deductible.  Preventative care that I previously had to pay out-of-pocket is fully covered. The Northeast in general has retained the HMO/EPO model, so finding doctors is not a problem.  

I even saved enough to buy more shoes

My premium for a self employed person was $600/quarter plus copay.  I didn't really go to the dr other than the gynecologist for routine check-ups, and I felt that I wouldve been better off with planned parenthood's womens services @ $100 or so per visit.  My plan physician was also an OB and I felt like I was overpaying to see a baby doctor when I have no plans of having a baby!

and thinking back on it over the years, I am positive I have spent more money on shoes (not my own of course) than I have on anything health related, as I am sure most men who have ever been married can relate to.

My premiums are under $300 per month.

It's not just hookers IMO, it's anyone who is in a largely cash business, or even most independent contractors. I knew a lot of commissioned salespeople who were knocking down well over six digits decades ago when a hundred grand was actually something to brag about, the funny thing about these guys/gals is that just like most hookers only a small percentage ever had a pot to piss in.

Actually a catastrophic policy most likely would not have done the lady in Atlanta a lot of good either. The plea is for enough money to pay for the down payment on the surgery. When you are broke, sometimes the ten grand for the deductible might as well be a million in her case.

Rrasha has the right idea (of course) she keeps enough cash on hand for the high deductible, buy an affordable policy, and still has money left over to keep Jimmy Choo in business. but of course she is the exception, not the rule.

I will agree that up until the poorly named ACA came to pass, Catastrophic policies really were the way to go for the average young person without kids. Rarely did a policy cost much more than a hundred bucks a month for anyone under thirty, and if they were managing their money coming up with ten grand should they cut off their fingers would not be life altering.

Alas, most young people (and some old people like me) feel they are bullet proof. The difference with me of course is that if I make the wrong bet and do run up a couple of hundred grand in medical bills, it won't put me out in the street, and the money I have saved by self insuring over the last several decades will still leave me ahead unless the bills piled up into the hundreds of thousands. Even though it has worked for me, I will concede it's not a strategy I can really recommend for others, and if my feelings about ObamaCare where not so strong, I would most likely buy one of the cheapest policies "just in case"

That doesn't mean I won't accept the return of my own money that's been stolen from me if I ever get the opportunity. Although I would be perfectly happy to "means test" both Medicare and Social Security, even if that means I will never receive a cent, if I were assured that they would only steal my money at the current rate and could never increase the percentage they steal from me.

but to answer your question, if they guy that robbed my house offered to give me some of my money back, accepting it would not mean that I support him robbing me in the first place.

I freely plead complete ignorance on deciphering the nuances of insurance. But if you want to talk about shoes…

However my OP was for the women of P4P.  Many here are older and as such tend to be at higher risk than many others due to their lifestyle choices.

In my OP it was referring to a P4P woman who had severed some fingers.  Her case is not uncommon I expect, and hence had she paid for even a catastrophic policy she wouldn't need her friend begging for dollars so she can use her hand in the future.

I would also suggest that many P4P women here have nothing saved.  

Remember kind Sir...the guys here generally are making a higher than average income to pay for P4P.  Rarely are the women here making any real money.  And what little some make they have a very skewed vision of how to fund for the future.  

That's why so many are still in P4P well beyond their 40's and 50's.

And for the younger women here, just like all youth.  Nothing bad will ever happen to them.  Hopefully the woman whose fingers were severed was old and had an exit strategy.  But I would "bet" she didn't

It is after all, socialized medicine.

If the insurance companies would change their practice and pay out when I buy it, then sign me up. They have to pay it out anyway, so why wait until I'm dead? Once they start the new practice, then I will start calling it life insurance.

If they think you not going to pay the bill they will kick you out by morning In fact not have heath insurance is why I still alive If you have Insurance It pays them to kill you slowly otherwise there have to make you well for you can work and pay on the bill.

END OF MESSAGE

That is not true at all. I am a full time sex worker and I pay for health insurance out of my own pocket. It is more expensive now with the affordable health care act but I still pay it. I understand how kids under 30 years old don't want to pay. You feel indestructible when you are young. I admit I didn't start buying health insurance until I was in my 30s. But then you have to grow up and face your own mortality and plan for the future.

...but for a while, I wasn't able to.  

The type of insurance that's worth anything is still quite expensive, and even if she does have insurance, that insurance doesn't cover 100% of a surgery anyway.  At one point in time, i had insurance that paid 90% of my medical services, but when you need to have a $100,000 surgery (which is often how much a major surgery with hospital stay costs) $10,000 is still a chunk of change to come up with.  

Luckily, lots of hospitals are required to give out a certain dollar amount of charitable services in order to maintain their non-profit statuses.  Some providers might be able to get some sort of assistance, should that be the case.  Oftentimes, major research hospitals offer assistance to those who make 400x over the poverty line (Cleveland Clinic, Rush, University Hospitals, and many others have assistance requirements like this).

Healthcare isnt cheap, and simply having insurance doesn't mean that healthcare is now magically affordable.

Myself as well as most of the p4p women I know have a lot of money saved.

This does not preclude us from working well into our 60s if we wish. It has nothing to do with how much money we have. It has to do with loving our job and wanting to still feel productive and useful. I get offended when guys suggest that we are working past our expiration date. Do not make the mistake of looking at me when I am still enjoying my career well into my senior years and think I am doing it because I need the money or that I spent what I had foolishly. Over my years I have always saved more than I have spent. My father taught me when I was a teen to live on only half of what I take home and save the rest.  It has insured that my future is secure and I can work as long or as little as I like.

That was three posts in a row without a Rrasha Witticism (TM). Are you depressed?

In a pathetik an footile attempt to plakate my BSC wife #2 I buyed menny pairs uv Loobies, Choos, Manoloes, Looie Vu-ton, etc.  Nun cost less then $700 a pare.  I think she wuz sum how related to Imelda Markos.
Bitch.

Iz that seau wrawng?  I hoap I ain't no soshulist.

tax time for some here?

xx kisses

Most plans offered today have a very high dollar deductible and then a share percentage of the remaining costs, up to a very high dollar limit.  

So if someone needs a surgery (even like an outpatient knee repair), the bill submitted will be in excess of $10,000. A typical policy today has at least a $2,000 deductible and then a 20% cost share to a max out of pocket of about $15,000. Even with insurance she's looking at a $3,600 bill. And that's assuming my figures and the procedure above, so her reality is probably a lot more. For someone that's very comfortable, $3,600 is a pretty hefty unplanned chunk to have to cough up.

Does your plan cover 100% of anything you have done? Highly unlikely unless it's preventive. I was a broker for 15 years prior to this life, and I can't remember the last time I sold a "cadillac" plan like that to any corporation. The companies can't afford them, and the employees can't afford their premium share on it.

Also, we aren't "making" whatever we charge for the hour. If a lady is charging $300 an hour, she has hotel costs, gas costs, typically daycare costs as most of us are mothers, and other miscellaneous charges for date related items (I always bring wine, condoms, lube, etc.). I suppose all of my lingerie, make up and perfume are free too, huh? Think about how much of that $300 she actually banks. Not all of us see tons of friends in a day, or work everyday either.

Please, stop acting like we're all idiots that blow our money and are obsessed with shoes. I'm the sweetest woman ever, but comments like this are just beyond belief.

Funny thing is, if I didn't wear designer shoes, somebody would then for sure complain I don't look like I cost XYZ...geez!!! Make up your minds.

So hooker have vastly different backgrounds and life circumstances than johns? Truly one of the most ignorant things I have read on this board.

there is no way in hell I'd see a on-plan doctor.

My insurance covers my labwork, x-rays, prescriptions, all the good hospitals, and my mandated PCP is decent enough.  Out of curiosity, I just checked and I can choose from about 30 plastic surgeons IN CHICAGO.  

Hand surgeons have plenty business from worker's comp, torts, and many do cosmetic work (cash) on the side too.  It may be that she has to pay the surgeon's fee herself- I'd have to.

They could dump you and not pay a thing if they found ANY indication the cause of the "catastrophe" was preexisting.  

I understand that you're DIYing your actuarial work, but that isn't what most people do.  Most people, then and now, buy catastrophic insurance when they have an inkling they'll need it.  That inkling = preexisting.  Before ACA, sure it was cheap because it was useless for most people who bought it.

So you were getting a ridiculous bargain, and now you'd get ridiculously screwed, but both are because you're not even a little bit representative.

bills piling up from some double biopsies i had in my breasts  months ago.  Not everything is covered in my case.

 
and i charge 300 an hour, But last week got a hotel for 4 days, had to take cabs thier n back and food. I was able to put 60 on a cable bill and give my landlord 119 by weeks end! and buy 170 in groceries, and minutes for my work phone.

thats it, nothing more, no extra for my baby i am having in june, no extra for electric bill, my rent is now at 7 grand i owe.

 i wouldnt make brash assumptions that we got it made cuz we charge 300 an hour.

 
I had 2 entire days in a hotel last week with out an appt, I screen first and not many clients wanna go through that riga maroo.  

 
in fact i screened a guy and then took a 60 dollar cab to boston to meet him, and he stood me up. I managed to get a fill in, but then next day had no appts.

too scared to have unscreened gents in...........................plenty of unscreened guys call and plenty lookin for special.  

   I dont know why guys assume we have tons of money . I know i dont even have the money for the room or cab to waltham for my big waltham trip this week, i am hoping for an appt before thursday afternoon to cover the cab and to book a room.

 
I have tryed asking for deposits to cover hotels so i can get to the area to meet them it didnt work , i ended up sittin in my house with no appts at all.  

           I had to have markers inserted in left and right breast because I have non cancerous fibroid tumors, so they have to be able to go back in and find em, so now i got ugly scar on both boob, and some foreign object in my left and right tits,

 
                           I cant take 2 weeks off to go have it temoved right now cuz i am about to lose my apt . no one got it easy and dont assume or have this attitude that we are super human and devoid of shit ruining our plans like any one else in this world is. i hate when guys act rude like that towards us when we have a hard time of things,

 
 I get that attitude from people all the time,  

 They have no compasion and instead are just like " How can you not have your rent dont you have regular?" or "dont you make 300 an hour?"

 
why not look at the ladies situation, and say geesh that sucks sorry to hear it, and be polite have a little compassion instead of being accusational right off the rip ?
 how rude and un sensitive, i cant believe people sometimes! aaagh!

 
so you seen a lady is havin a had time and thats your response? "oh what does she spend it all on shows, dont these assholes have health insurance. "
your atitude just plain sucks, i feel sorry for your family . very uncampassionate.... you need to lighten up a tad. thats a rude ass post..

details dont matter to you, if you see some one has a hard time either help them and be nice or say a prayer for them dont approach it with a laded and rude interegation, i am certain thats not gonna help any one including yourself, you certainly must have other things to busy yourself with than concerning yourself with some escort and weather she has health insurance, If you dont care, fine dont care, but dont go accusing a sick person of things thats all they need, wow. wow wow wow wow, people in this world NEVER CEASE TO FUCKIN AMAZE THE FUCVK OUTTA ME.
 and disapoint me at that.

The unfortunate thing is that many do not understand the Obama care plans. The lower premium insurance plans carry much higher deductibles, co-pays. If you are with a plan that affiliates with a hospital, many services are covered 90% - 100% if you stay in network.

That's a big IF. And those are HMO plans, meaning if you go out of the network (which is comprised of a very small amount of docs/hospitals), you have no coverage. So people that take those plans often have to change all of their medical providers, and sometimes don't find out until they've been to see someone and it's not covered, or until you need urgent care and find out your provider is not in the network. How many women do you know that get, let's say cervical cancer, are going to be willing to change their OBGYN provider to get surgery??? That's why those plans rarely sell and will never gain mass popularity.

And even then I haven't seen a plan out there covering 100% anymore unless it's preventive. A surgery is never going to be considered preventive. An even on an HMO they won't be covering a $10,000 anything even if it's done at their network hospital. They aren't saving that much money on facility use.

And if you're sick you are likely unable to work. Deductibles, and copays can easily run in the tens of thousands. Add in the lack of income and normal life experiences, it is little wonder anyone can come up lacking if not prepared for such a situation. Sad thing is this is America, and most Americans don't plan for emergencies. It is foolish but normal. Don't assume she lacks insurance, just assume like the majority of Americans she lacks savings.

I've carried HMO/PPO plans for 30 years. They do sell and are preferable if you know how to navigate the system. The costs are less prohibitive as well. I've had several surgeries including knee surgery two years ago and didn't pay a dime - not only for the surgery but anesthesia was covered in full as well. If you travel a good deal or don't affiliate with a specific health system those insurances may not work for you. Certainly it is key to align yourself with a PCP that you completely love his/her care and trust. If you do, he/she will be more than happy to send you to the specialist that they trust and send their family members to. Again it may not work for everyone and their circumstances.

OMG dude! Are you seriously arguing with me when I was a broker for 15 years? You might have "carried" an HMO for 30 years, but I sold them! I know what sells and what doesn't. Just because you like yours doesn't mean they are popular plans.  

And you totally missed what I said. You've BEEN in an HMO for a billion years. Why would someone today that has established doctors move to an HMO and lose all of their long time established physician and specialists? Women do not want to change their OB/GYNs, fact. That's why these plans fizzled out in the 80's and are trying to make a comeback but will never be the preferred choice due to their limited network.

Most people will take a high deductible plan with 100% preventive and the lowest premium than pay more for an HMO where they have to uproot every doctor they've ever had.

I have it through my day job, but I'd cancel it in a minute if I had the choice. It too expensive, deductible is too high, it hardly covers any of the things I need.  

I play Planned Parenthood in cash for all my quarterly hooker needs. They're really nice there too, and I think a lot of sluts and hookers go there because they know me really well now and don't bat an eyelash that they see me so much.

I'd really like to find out how much the fine is for not having insurance to see if it's cheaper than what I pay each month for something that doesn't do anything for me.

Alexandra...all due respect but my comment should not be perceived that I am arguing with you. I simply stated that the plans are not dead and they do provide great value. This board extends to a wider audience and perhaps I missed that in my comments. If you are in a market such as NY where the concentration of specialists is tremendous and they are in network it's generally not an issue. In a market like Ohio, I'm sure it would be much more difficult. I'm glad you sold insurance for 15 years. Serving as VP of Managed Care of a major medical system in NY for more years than I care to mention, I can tell you that more than 80% of the employees carry an HMO/PPO product. And it's not just for cost reasons.  

Again, as I stated in my last post, they are not for everyone. That is not an argument. BTW if you are staying with your Gyn for cervical cancer as mentioned in the post before last, there's a problem. He/she should be referring you to a Gyn-Oncologist.  Any sane individual who is looking for a plan and has established physicians is going to search to find out what plans they participate with and are in network with before choosing that plan. Of course if you live in Ohio or Chicago don't expect to be in network if you have an issue while traveling to Boston.  Bottom line is the OPs question was buy insurance or buy shoes. Hopefully on that question we can agree.