I was wondering the opinions of both the ladies and gentlemen on this topic.
Thank you

... if you are born male you are male.

I was a little taken aback by how many men were curious about TS women
Even if they consider themselves heterosexual.

And despite what our resident moron already said on this thread, genitalia does not determine gender. Safety isn't an issue either (if someone doesn't want to see someone who sees TS providers due to safety concerns, she should also refuse to see anyone who engages in anal sex, anyone who sees providers who engage in anal sex, and so on). I know plenty of straight, cisgender people who are FAR more nasty than all of the trans*people I've ever met combined.  

I think she was asking whether or not it's a "safety" concern (albeit misinformed) for the ladies who refuse to see guys who see TS girls.

Hmm, and why is it hard to believe what kind of friends I have?
You do not know me but you seem to have an issue girl.

I agree, Tobi.  
If a provider has concerns, of any kind with a gent, she should not visit with him.
I also have experienced personal situations of ignorance regarding my friends that are horrid.

Safety should be everyones number one priority.  
As long as we are all playing safe.
What a lot of people do not realize, is that, as much as we would like to think what one provider and hobbyists does during her time is not our business or does not affect us, but it does.
This is a community and we all cross paths in some degree.

and prefer the word "sex" much more.

Sex and gender are not the same thing, genius.

To use the word safety as though that is either more or less had by someone's gender is similar to someone using the word race or even price point to do so (ie are white people more safe or are more expensive escorts more safe). To be safe is completely independent. Perhaps it's another question you're trying to ask.

Everybody should engage in what they want with who they want. If you want to avoid men who see TS providers or civi's…go ahead. Good luck with that. The closet for that is big and deep.

You brought up the term gender, as in transgender.

Are you suggesting that transgender and transexual are unrelated terms? Christ.  

You are very mis-informed, aka ignorant, to state that "humans are the only organisms who alter their reproductive organs."
  As a biologist I can name several animals that do so....Parrotfish, those colorful reef inhabitants, are born with both male and female organs. They are what's known as protogynous hermaphrodites. If male/female ratios get skewed then males will "turn" into females. Similarly, clownfish, are all born "male" and then some turn "female". Alternatively, lizards in the genus Cnemidophorus, are all born female and no males exist. They sexually reproduce by what's called parthenogenesis. There are many, many more examples of these sorts of reproductive strategies in nature. I've only mentioned some animals but can assure you that plants employ even more convoluted methods.  
   The points you attempt to make in this post are ridiculous. It's too bad that trans-gender people have to put up with such nonsense. I often like to believe that we in this community are more open-minded than society at large. You, and too many others, have shown me that it's simply wishful thinking.
                                                                                                                                Regards....RR

to "Gents that see both Women and Transexuals" especially if you are referring to someone who is "pre Op" as I don't consider a person with a male reproductive organ a "woman"

That said, as judgmental as many Trannies will find my point, I don't really have much of an opinion, nor do I think much about it. If pressed I will concede that a man who frequents "pre op trannies" is gay IMO, but gay is not a "bad thing" to me.

We are what we are, we are wired however we are wired. A person who is attracted to Transgendered persons is no more able to change his/her attraction than I am able to like men sexually even if I wanted to, or even fat broads for that matter. lol  There is no right or wrong IMO, there simply "is". We like what we like, no one can change that, so "judging" is a waste of time and energy.

I think that the OP was bringing up the issue of guys who see TS/TG might be in a higher risk category for STD's.  At least that is how I read her OP and subsequent posts.

There's no doubt he's a Bozo

You are gay if you are still aroused after seeing a full frontal nude shot, complete with a hanging dick.

Not that there is anything wrong with gay, but if you are a man and you get turned on by a naked pic of someone else with a dick, you are gay. Deal with it.

In DC on  a Saturday night when a civilian GF and her friend were in my car , stopped by  the light  at Dupont  , my GF said ,  "  OH MY !!  That  tall hooker  with the pink hot pants and gorgeous  breasts looks Incredibly Super Hot , lets see if she wants to come with us  and play ".  My GF's friend  was in the back seat giggling .  I told  my GF  that hooker  is probably  a TS .  The girl in the back giggled more .  
 My first clue, she looked to be an easy 6' 7" with her heels . My GF said "No way , she's too pretty  to be a man, her legs are all  woman  "   To prove I was right I pulled up to the curb , motioned her to my car , "Hi  sweetie , you care  to play with  my friends and me  "    She  looked at me  and smiled , glanced over at my GF, and her GF in back , looked back at me , in a not so sweet voice and scornful eyes she said in disgust   " You think I'm a Dyke bitch, I should punch your nose  and knock your teeth out  "  
  I left quickly before the giggling girl in the back seat tried to convince  the TS  to take a "WALK ON THE WILD SIDE "  
 http://vimeo.com/17865688
 
    Perhaps I am wrong but I believe a TS doesn't see a man  when they look at their own reflection or believe they are having "same sex" or homosexual intercourse  when they are with a man .  
  I'm not judging you or your TS friends  , I'm just glad the TS at Dupont didn't knock  
       my teeth out  .  
  I've never hit a woman even when she hit me , I'm  not  starting  even on a technicality .  
 
I've never had sex with  a TS , not guaranteeing I never will if she is irresistible , but I've been with enough wild women I am sure there was a TS in the chain not far from me .
               I'm  still alive and well .
         
 

Despite the wording of her question to make that one degree even slimmer.

A transgendered person might consider himself a "woman" but if a person has a dick, he is not a woman. Sorry, but biology trumps psychiatry in this case.

As for the rest of your post, yes I more or less agree with you, except that I freely acknowledge and accept that there is a double standard where it comes to bi males as opposed to bi females.

A man who is "bisexual" is still gay to most of us, no matter how many women he fucks. Right or wrong, this joke still carries a lot of truth "i've been hammering nails all my life and no one ever called me a carpenter, but suck just one dick, and I am a cocksucker forever"

Sorry, I don't make the standards, but sometimes I agree with them, even the unfair ones.

I will end this by saying I agree with you more than I disagree, and the topic is not important enough to me to spend a lot of time debating it. Unlike a surprisingly large number of guys here, I am not threatened by gays, trannies, or those that frequent them. I grew up in San Francisco, if I were to start worrying about how many women I have been with that have also fucked a gay/bi guy, I would have become a monk years ago. I have fucked thousand of women over the last 40 years or so, and these women by extension have most likely fucked almost every one in the world, to worry that I metaphorically crossed swords with a tranny once, twice, or three times removed just isn't that important to me.

Gender dysphoria is a REAL condition.
Trans women are, mentally, more similar to cis women than to cis men.  
We are not "born" anything, we are *assigned* based on our genetalia.
The presence and prevalence of intersex people who are forcibly made one sex or the other should be proof enough that gentalia and gender are not the same and neither is indication of the other.
People should really be more open minded here.
This kind of ignorance is what leads to the death of trans people, especially women, and especially sex workers, on such a frequent basis.  
A trans person has a 1 in 12 chance of being murdered, so many don't live past 23 because of harmful attitudes.
Educate yourselves, y'all. Trans women are women.

-- Modified on 4/23/2014 1:30:56 PM

If you haven't experienced the confusing and painful disconnect of your outsides not matching how you feel inside, then you should probably keep your mouth shut. Do you honestly think that "officially" transitioning your gender is an easy decision and undertaking? Do you honestly think that people do it for shits and giggles? If you do, go rent "Boys Don't Cry"...

My comment was directed at the dudes that see a TS/TG and whether they are indeed gay men while still fucking women.  I don't believe I would see them as gay...simply bi or bi curious.  And I know many men who are repulsed at the thought of fucking a woman...they are gay!

and as I said before, I "mostly" agree with you.

but you deny the double standard where it comes to bisexual men. I don't, although I freely admit to how unfair it is. Some things are fair, some are unfair, and some things just "are"  I guess the term " a distinction without a difference" seems to  apply here.

I simply commented that I don't see if a dude sees a TS that makes him gay.  You see it otherwise.

this line of questioning, no offense to the OP, is asinine. On top of that it's suggestive of bias that is not only disrespectful to LGBTS/TG members of our community but just wrong? I see it almost weekly and the answer is always the same. Grey. Live and let live should be expanded to hump and let hump. The words TS and safety are ALWAYS in the same post. How about giving it a rest already…

Gay men are not the ones who are booking time with MTF escorts, it's straight men. Why is that? Well, straight men love dick. Why do you think that Ron Jeremy is as famous as he is? His good looks? HA! It's because of his dick...and it ain't women who are obsessed with his dick, it's men.  

Cleanliness, Safety and being careful with those you see is a major part of this.  Safety is our number 1 concern as long as we can be safe we always have fun!  Get tested, use protection and if you don't make sure all players are tested

Also, Buck Angel is sexy.

Which one is Buck Angel? Is it the dude with a vagina or the dude fucking the women with no dick?  

Sheesh, why don't I just stay home and stare at my nekkid self in the mirror? That's the same enjoyment i'd receive from chicks with dicks

Google Fucking Exists.

Do you really wanna see the fire that would ensue if they were invited into this conversation? With some of the things that have been said, please, keep them far, far away.  

Either way, I think its gay porn. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's gay porn. If not, that one broad is really fugly.  

Dan Savage says it best (and he IS gay, btw)

Savage says "One dick in the ass does not a gay man make."

Spot on.
No judgement about any transgendered person at any transitional stage. Nor judgement on anyone sexual preferences
But when you've got the working man parts, you are not a woman. "Chicks with dicks" are the same as "Dudes with tits."  Semantics don't change the reality.

nit that theres anything wrong with it .

You were the same guy who once declared that people have sex reassignment surgery because they're  homosexual and want to be able to have "same-sex" relationships; which is a misperception so unbelievably uninformed and ignun't that there really is no response

Apparently he hasn't watched Jurassic Park either...  

e also claims that Christianity existed before Jesus was born

Just because you believe that a man who identifies as bi-sexual, or experiments with a homosexual experience is gay, does not mean that's true.  

"According to the 2010 National Survey of Sexual Health and Behavior, among college-age Americans, condoms are used in about 40 percent of sexual encounters, but only in about 6 percent of sexual encounters among those 61 and older."

You compared the LGBT community to older, straight males initially.  

My "opinion" would be much the same. I'm less convinced that heterosexual men who enter into civilian relationships with TSs would necessarily fall into one of those categories-- relationships are too complicated to rule out anything-- but seeking out a TS provider, where there is no preexisting relationship, seems that there has to be some leaning in that direction.

If a wife chops off her husbands goods.. Or even if the guy does it (some rapper just did) is he no longer a male?
If a female has a lumpectomy is she no longer a female?
What if you are born with multiple or no body parts?
If one has no legs are they not human?

I do feel it's not just about genitalia.

His ignorance is on an entirely different level than Fungus.  I can't even figure out if he's stupider or not.  This is an entirely new form of ignorance which I have never before encountered. For lack of a better term, it's a kind of Existential Ignorance.  It confuses and frightens me.  No, not really, but it does amaze me.  The guy can barely put one foot in front of the other.

After reading a few of the other posts on this thread, it would appear that we are the exception, not the rule.

I've already said, this subject is not important enough to me for me to waste a lot of energy over it. To the people who want to drag me into some kind of sexual debate over this, they can kindly all "Go fuck themselves" Sorry guys and girls, but I just don't really give a fuck one way or the other, and all your wailing, foot stomping, and holding of your breath, is not going to change my mind. I barely give a fuck about gay people, who most likely number in the millions, much less Transgendered persons, who can't number even a tenth of that number.

People can fuck who ever they want. Man, woman, or a little of both, I don't really give a fuck, but no one will ever convince me that a man who is sexually attracted to another human being with a penis is not gay. If you don't like it, TOUGH SHIT, I don't really give a fuck

Keep your DSM IV as a source book, what with all the changes in terms and category 1 definitions of symptoms.

Rod, don't get used to it. LOL!

I know where you've BEEN! LMAO!  And, for the record, I agree with CPA on the subject.  There's so much I don't know about the transgender world and why it is the way it is, so I'm not going to force rigid definitions on it and the people who want/need to go there.  It's all good.
There, I've done it.  On one single thread I've agreed with Turdy and disagreed with GaG.  Does that make me gay?
Satan is practicing his slap shot in Hell.

Does that make him gay?  I'm really getting confused now.  All I know is, I really don't like ass play when I'm on the receiving end.  Does that make me straight?  Fuck!

there's no such thing as a bi male how the fuck can a guy be bi..... any guy who willingly gives head or fucks another guy in the ass is gay... not that I have anything against gay men but it is what it is

True, but, at the same time, as a Black woman, if someone invited me into a thread that was full of racism and misinformation and outright hurtful things about my race, I'd wonder why the fuck they wanted to put me through that in the name of educating people.  

And you are not gay if the person with the dick is shaped like and looks better then most females.  If I were to be attracted to a guy like myself then I would be gay.  

Yes, Loves...  

Wild animals don't have the time to think about which sex they are.

It was fun, we giggled the whole time-didn't touch each other but pleasures the guy!! I couldn't look at her "Pussystick" cuz she lives her life a a female & I see her that way except when I'm pissed off at her -(JK-lol)...    

What do consider transgender?

I must argue flatly you are Incorrect, love...  

Feminine looking MTF TS who have a bigger dick than I. I view any one with a bigger dick than I as more masculine. Then I see the person with the bigger dick, and they also have hips, breasts, and an all around feminine appearance... My brain doesn't know how to process such an image

but do you like you like Buck's femininity or masculinity?

I know you struggle with reading comprehension, but here:

that most of the disagreements on this thread stem from semantics.  You are mainly arguing over misunderstandings about the definition of words.  Conan cannot help but observe that if people were simply more careful in their use of language this board would have less drama.  Then the question becomes: would that be a Good Thing

It's evident here with his ignorant claim of humans being the only ones who change gender.  Another idiotic thing he said the other day,  he claimed Christianity existed before jesus.  LMAO  

Another question is,  did you ever mug young people?  
Cuz people seem to call you "Robbin' Young"...  

Why should my issue be your issue?  Why should your issue be my issue?  

On the religion board he posted something that clearly talks about religion and quotes from book of revelation,  then he claims he never talked about religion.  LMAO  

I grew up in a mostly blue collar community not far from Boston in the late 70s and 80s.  Common consensus where I lived was that homosexuality was similar to a sickness.  It was generally believed that there was something wrong with it and homosexuals were generally looked down upon.  Many of us were foolish enough to think that it was a choice rather than an inherent trait.  It was such a strong sentiment that many who were gay were afraid to come out of the closet for fear of the backlash and that people they loved would think of them differently.  Some were even ashamed of their homosexuality.

more info . or as you said they can ask you questions so I guess thanks .. look I don't care not my thing. if you think your a girl , cool .  

Posted By: AngelaMarie

I must argue flatly you are Incorrect, love...    
   
   
 As you are one individual out of several billion,  and only one single perspective that you clearly directed as to only recognize human sexuality in strict terms of *only* either "gay",  or "straight", when yet,  both gender and sexual orientation,  are A.) separate yet yes - also deeply interconnected discussions) and are also both,  far larger questions and answers than that,  then that is far too simple an explanation....  
   
   
 ...if I may please suggest this might better be stated as,  "my opinion",  as opposed to just flatly  "final answer"...    
   
   
 that may be *your* final answer, but so was also the argument that the earth was flat, before it was accepted and discovered otherwise by most of the rest of humanity at a time.      
     
   
   
 And yes ...as was just posted at the very end of this thread by someone who "cant wait to get their popcorn and sit back to watch and see what happens next", ...so.... yes... now it will, and it most agreeably should...  
     
   
   
  A dialogue must now ensue more clearly from what I think was an intelligent and simply opinion/information seeking question, and not necessarily posed in what I felt to be a denigratingly offensive manner, or as opposed to any kind of "Springeresque" circus, which clearly parts of the discussion have now also unfortunately wandered into...  
     
   
     
  If any of you... have *any* questions about TS women, then just simply ask one of us. We are not some scary freakish alien species unable to communicate on the very same exact level of human experience that everyone else on the planet does... Most of us I think are willing, able, and even happy to answer and engage in such dialogues, especially when engaged respectfully, and even more so if it helps to break down fears, stereotypes, misunderstandings, and worse, throughout all of our histories as both men *and* women...  
     
     
   
  because it is late where I am at this moment, and cannot possibly cover every direction this has taken i'll cover as many bases as possible in this way....  
     
   
     
  I have included links to topic(s) in the TS boards that I have posted several *long*, but very personal, and also explanative responses on, rather extensively,  on exactly these kinds of questions, and also included in these thread/posts, are other links to additional topics where I either expanded upon or responded to other similar questions/aspects/perceptions of this kind of conversation...    
     
     
 http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewMsg.asp?BoardID=19&MessageID=104647  
     
     
 http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewMsg.asp?BoardID=19&MessageID=98665  
     
     
 http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=104860&boardID=19&page=#104860  
     
     
 http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewMsg.asp?BoardID=19&MessageID=98519  
     
     
  Hope this adds a little additional or maybe helpful perspectives to the this thread that can be of benefit in this discussion...  
     
     
  Most Kindly, and...  
     
     
  LoveRespectAlways  
     
     
  Namaste'  
     
   
     
 TheAngelaGirl

She initially said LGBT vs. old, straight, male initially. But her "evidence" was only young vs old, leaving OUT the LGBT part of her original claim.

It is time to re-examine your viewpoint.  Equating cock-size to masculinity is truly bizzare.  It is likely the result of some serious repression.

I do think it could be a "genetic imperfection." Much like someone being born with one leg shorter than another, being born incredibly skinny, unusually tall, etc but there isn't any need for discrimation over those examples or homosexuality.

That's why I always have everything ready .
Some like 420, poppers, toys etc.
I think It's cool. My job is to bring them to their satisfaction.
Come horny, leave happy!

And she thinks we are out of touch????

I guess in her world there are no old gay people, I guess she has never been to Key West, P Town, West Hollywood or San Francisco. The streets in everyone one of those towns are crawling with gay people well into their senior years.

and that's all this discussion is, a case of pandering to the PC crowd.

I haven't seen anyone come on this thread and bash people for their sexual choices, quite the contrary, people are bending over backwards trying to be PC to placate the handful of Transexuals we have here.

Let me repeat, i don't have a single issue with the sexual choices that adults make, just don't try to force me into admitting something I flat out don't believe, in this case that transexuals are "real" women, It's just not true and simply believing in it doesn't make it so. You might "think" you are a woman, but that doesn't make it so anymore than a crazy person in the psych ward who "thinks" he is Julius Caesar.

Where you seem to have it wrong is that it is the LGBT community that is forcing their "rigid definitions" on the rest of us, not the other way around.

BTW I am back on a plane back to Texas, and yes we have trannies in Texas just like you do in NY

"your" opinion, nothing more and nothing less than any of the other 7 billion people on this planet?

Personally I don't have an/the answer, I barely understand what the question is.

but I am sure if he hangs out there long enough, they will start to despise him as well.

Turdy is one of those guys that the better you get to know him the less you tend to respect him.

To call genes that don't directly, negatively affect the health of the individual at this point in history "imperfect" is a flawed and short-sighted perspective.  Genetic mutations exist so that species can survive changing environmental conditions.  There has never been a time on earth with such rapidly changing environmental conditions, baring catastrophic events such as massive volcanoes or large meteor impacts.
     Traditionally there are two types of survival that gene mutation affects; survival of the bloodline and survival of the species.  Some believe that the first always leads to the second, but that viewpoint is too narrow completely ignores environmental factors.
     It is true that  homosexual "genes" make an animal much less likely to reproduce in nature, thus decreasing survival of the bloodline, but there is a larger picture to consider.  There have been occasions in evolution where too large of a population of species has resulted in a dramatic decrease in the food supply, ultimately resulting in the eventual extinction of a species.   In such cases, the diminished number of bloodlines procreated could actually result in the survival of the species.  Similar arguments have been made for altruism in humans.
     The development of civilization and man's mastry of technology have completely changed the game.  No longer do the blind, deaf or deformed die without getting a chance to procreate.  Many believe our genepool is weaker as a result and it is the root of much of the disease and ailments we suffer today.  That said, none can deny the increasing growth and diversity of said pool.  The survival of our species may someday be a result of said diversity.
     It is no longer survival of the fittest, rather it is survival of almost every human to the detriment of almost all other species.  We have reached a point where our expanding population is putting extreme strain on Earth's limited resources as well as causing mass extinctions.  It is much more likely that our population is too large for it's own good at this time.  If that is the case, perhaps genetic traits that limit procreation will be the key to survival for our species.

If you're lumping me in with the other posters, that is.  I suggest you go back and read my very few posts on this thread and then see if what you wrote here applies to me at all.
Wait!  I'll save you the trouble: it doesn't.
As for Texas trannies, I'm pretty sure your Governor is one.
And you know damn well I'm not remotely a "flaming liberal."  That would be your pal WillieWonka.