I'm really new to this world and had some fun but I was talking with a provider about life, I took a sarcastic shot and said something like, if it were easy all you millennial's would do it... just in jest... her response was something like, yeah, cause sucking a strangers dick everyday is easy.... then later said it's rare that it is enjoyable or nice... usually it's just someone fucking me. I just don't think I can look at a woman as just a fucking item to please me anymore... it's a service I know, I get the deal but I just don't feel comfortable with it... it's their choice I know... but, at this specific time, I think I'll be better off not... anyone else ever get a hint of guilt like taking advantage or demeaning a provider?

I took a screenwriting class years ago. The teacher said that the story you're writing should end when it's time to end. And only you can know that time--it's your story. If you're not having fun, which is the one and only point of this exercise, then it's time to walk away.  

who look down on sex workers.  You take a sarcastic shot at her profession, which you feel entitled to do because you think you're better than her, and then get all butt-hurt by her reaction when she gives you the dose of reality THAT YOU ASKED FOR.  Conversations that reek of "what's a nice girl like you doing in a filthy job like this" can only go south quickly.  If you don't want to know the truth about sex work, then just enjoy the fantasy and don't ask questions.   Most providers would not give you the unvarnished truth when seeing them for the first time, but once you are a regular with a provider and they think you are emotionally mature enough to handle reality, then they will share aspects of their work with you . . . . the good, the bad, and the ugly.  If you can't handle it, then I agree, you are not mature enough to be a monger and should get out.  

Or maybe you're seeing ladies that aren't at your level. We all fall for the glamour shot of a hot 20 something, but then after you nail her, you're thinking "What now"?.You called her a millennial so there's a age difference here. She told you the way it is, cut and dry and it took you back.Maybe if she was more mature she could've fed off your vibe and cuddle the conversation in an another direction you wouldn't have felt the need to be an ass.
This life style isn't for everyone. We're all looking for that "escape", to get lost in another world for that limited time.
Good luck, hope you find the meaning of life, somewhere between some chicks legs....lol

that's not accurate at all... you either made false assumptions or read more than I said. I never took a shot at her...  we were talking about a business she is considering opening, i said it would be hard, these things aren't easy... never took a shot at her profession or suggested I was better than her.... SOOO, you're wrong there! If she's opening up to me then she's comfortable with me... emotionally mature or desensitized... is that the same thing?

Some ladies love what they do.  For others it is just a job.  And like some jobs, some people hate their jobs.  

I appreciate the thoughts, thanks!

says, "I TOOK A SARCASTIC SHOT AT HER."  Tell me again how you didn't say that?

Thanks, I like those thoughts too.

I was a sarcastic shot at her as a millennial, not a provider... sorry if I didn't make that clear... I'm actually trying to help her start another business... told her it is hard, if it were easy.... you know the rest.

"a fucking item" I'd retire, lol. The lady in question gave you back what you gave her. Maybe consider ladies as more and you will be rewarded with more than her curt answer back to you.  

and the exact opposite thing happened that you would expect. She fully admitted that she hated being a hooker, but that she liked me and it was "different" with me.  

MatureGFE, completely wrong too, I NEVER said anything about what she's doing, easy or hard... we were talking about an entirely different business opportunity that is regulated on state and federal levels, requires multiple business set up steps that she's not familiar with... you're reacting without reading things clearly... she was never on the defensive at all.. you are assuming, wrongly... SHE is the one who said there are challenges... some people here... read the whole stinking message... in context.  

THANK YOU GA, for some level headed thinking and insight!

Did you buy her guilt trip?   If so, so be it.  No sense paying money to feel guilty.

He clearly said ""IF" it were so easy, all you millennials would be doing it" and he wasn't even talking about being a sex worker when he said it.  

As a few have pointed out, this can be about more than just fucking. I get that in most cases the job was probably NOT what most grew up dreaming of. However, it is a job that produces more income than any other option and, for those that stay in the role, is a "crummy" job they can deal with. While I would like to think most people are like me and generally had jobs they enjoyed and found fulfilling I suspect my situations has been more the exception than the rule.

My apologies, sir.  Please disregard me earlier response.  

Fisher will tell you.  whip out some oils and give her a great massage.  Voila!  You made her day!

I had to visit a new dentist today -- I never see the same dentist twice, lol.  I caught him eying me through the fishtanks in the waiting room.  "Shit a new patient.  Will his breath smell?  Will I actually like him?"  You could read his thoughts.  Later, after the exam, he thanked me for being "one of the good patients, that helps him get through the drudgery of dental work."  Little did he know, I never repeat.  He was no millennial, btw.

A provider doesn't regard seeing a guy as anything but work.  But like all jobs, you have good days and bad days.  I tend to see the same girl repeatedly.  I stop if they say things to me like " I love you".. a danger sign... I get very fond of a girl and respect her.. but neither if us are there for love. As soon as you understand that it's a business transaction that is a lot of fun.. you will be better off.

Did she ever become a hooker again?

doing this then you have not done it long enough.

Once I read his response back to CDL just now, it clear it up.

We all have different reasons for retiring.  In my early days I said I would never stop.  During my most active years I actually thought I might die of a stroke/heart failure during one of my many very athletic sessions.

You sound like a very nice person who wants to help this lady!  

Brother it's easy to possibly cross that line on anything with her or vice versa with YOU. All I can say as a newbie is chalk it up as inexperience in this & reach out apologize! Chances are she MIGHT not even think it's a big deal BUT I always recommend with all these ladies you treat them the way you would any lady outside of the hobby whether it be a platonic lady friend or a potential GF.  

I appreciate the civil back and forth (even was a "you said this"..."no i meant that"... "oops, ok, i got it now" exchange
Only want to amplify what was mentioned about it being a job (i.e., sexWORK) and that we have good days and bad.
Also, our relation to clients can be along a spectrum. When I had a wine bar, some patrons would walk through the door and I'd know it'd be enjoyable interaction and others that most likely would feel like a chore. Same in this realm.
If you're going to be a provider for a length of time, you understand that you need to be professional on both the good & bad days and with the fun & not-so-fun clients (as well as when those dynamics intermingling at times).  
Happy hobbying & stay safe y'all
Kacy TGirl

And after a while I would go  
Why not go get something?

Whatever "Boomer".....

Why apologize, he was being a dick. Just like saying, "You boomers are all about yourselves". An insult is an insult. Even using the term millennial has an inherent insult in that context - and most contexts for that matter.

Some good comments here. Pretty deep discussion for a fuck board.
.
The girls who are the best at this are enjoying it at some level much of the time, and can act like they do nearly all the time. They understand the performance and fantasy fulfillment aspect of what they are doing, and this is reflected in their earnings. There's a continuum among providers, as among all women, in their enjoyment of sex and aptitude for this work.
.
Because, as others have commented, for the providers it's ultimately a job. Even though somewhere there are men paying men for sex, women paying women, or women paying men, the vast majority of paid sex going on is men paying women. The fact that I have to pay reflects the fact that I need/want this more than the provider does, and so my experience is fundamentally different somehow from the provider's. At the average/population level, men are experiencing sex differently from women.  
.
Sometimes there is coercion or traficking going on, which I'm certainly doing my best to avoid, and I believe nearly always succeeding. But most of what's going on in this transaction reflects the male-female difference in what we're experiencing.
.
I accept this and form my attitudes and expectations accordingly. I do my best to be respectful, courteous, professional, all that, as I do with other service providers. Treat them the way I'd like to be treated, even as I appreciate the service they are providing. As a person, she's not just a "fucking item to please me," but that's what I'm paying her to be right now, and that's ok if we both understand that.
.
This doesn't mean that clients and providers can't communicate honestly, or even form friendships or romances. It just means, for me, that this service is different from getting my hair cut or going to a restaurant, because of my need/desire for it, and so I need to be self-aware about my emotions and reactions.
.
Your provider friend made a comment that reflected an aspect of her reality. Because you had become friends, maybe you had formed some assumptions about her and your relationship that were knocked away by what the comment revealed. My opinion is that her letting her guard down a bit and being honest reflects that she likes and trusts you. For me, it wouldn't change how I felt about her or about paying for sex in general.

The best sessions for me are when I leave satisfied, and I have the feeling the provider enjoyed herself. This is the fun of repeat sessions and the challenge of new sessions. Sometimes the less said, the better. If a provider gives off the vibe that it’s just work, that can definitely kill the mood of the session.  That is also the difference between a repeat, and a one-and-done!

The sentence structure in his original post lent itself to misinterpretation in the way that we understood it, but after he explained what he meant, I could see how his interpretation was equally viable.  Unlike many posters here that NEVER admit they are wrong (and I won't call them  out, they know who they are), we are both contrite on this one.  Lol

Props for admitting you were wrong.

I'm an admitted drunk and I "got it" the very first time I read it,

But I got it wrong and don't mind saying so. Hey I'm in good company CDL misread it too.

Even after reading your translation GaG, I still believe you got it wrong. She shared a personal thought and dream, about opening up an art studio, and he dissed the idea. My EX-wife would do that shit all the time. I'd raise an idea and she would then think of six ways to Sunday of why it wouldn't work. Sometimes it was just floating up a dream and all you would need to say, that is a nice idea, sounds fun.

You brought up an excellent point.  A great provider can make you suspend disbelief---TER has a rating of "9 - I forgot it was a service" for a reason.  Every provider does it differently.  Some engage in playful, flirty banter, like a college party hookup.  Others don't talk much, but make up for it in sexy behavior.  Others rely on emotional talk.  In a nutshell, if a provider can make you forget she's a provider, she's worth her weight in gold, even if she's a spinner.

As noted above, she shared with him a personal dream. She opened up to him, and he crapped on it. That hurt her, and she reacted. It is an extremely tough business, and she took a moment to be vulnerable to a client. Lesson learned for her, and now we have one more cold and distant provider who you can give her 'fake' moans from getting eaten out by a guy who is an expert at eating pussy and making women have multiple O's.

I assume that the women I see are doing this of their own volition.  Their reasons are not for me to judge.  Maybe they like it.  Maybe they don't like it.  I assume money is the prime motivator.  Even though there are probably some who would be sexually active anyhow and realize they can get paid for it, I don't assume that about anyone I see.
.
I simply assume they do this of their own free will and they do it for the money.  I have no guilt about that.  I drag my ass into work every day.  It's interesting enough work.  But if it weren't for the money I would be sitting on a beach sucking a Mai Tai.
.
Do escorts have to love what they do for me to see them?  Not at all.  I treat them respectfully like anybody I deal with.  We have mutually agreed to certain conditions.  There is no force or fraud.  There is no illusion of a meaningful relationship between us.  If they'd rather be somewhere else, I can fully sympathize.  Who likes to go to work when there is a world of more enjoyable options?

http://youtu.be/5vZLjNolrS0

If you're talking about the OP I don't see how anyone can claim the guy was shitting on the girls dream. Given the OP both seemed to be saying providing is a difficult job for the provider -- or at least that specific provider.

I'm polite, chat with them to the extent that they're interested, enjoy my time in their company, and then leave and don't think about them until I'm in the mood again.  

Everyone is here for different reasons, do not let 1 provider detour you from making memories that will last a life time with others.  No one should have that control over you. I think you need to find a provider not to just fuck & suck you, but offer companionship, inspiration, motivation, and encouragement. I am out here!

There are folks you really connect with and enjoy helping, some you have no opinion either way (they're just run of the mill average joes/janes) and some you can't stand. Such as it is with providers and the hobbyists who seek their services.

One of the things of which I try to be mindful is that this ain't like any other job (except maybe porn).  The women here are not preparing our tax returns or painting our houses or fixing our computers. They're engaging in the most intimate act short of child bearing, in exchange for money. I have no idea (though I have my theories) about how a lady processes that. And those of us on the buy side can pretend that it's just another transaction. But I never had a discussion like this one about buying phones or ordering a meal. I acknowledge that this thing is just different. When skin meets skin, stuff happens in the amygdala and emotions get called into play in ways that just don't happen when you're trying on new running shoes or looking at a new laptop purchase.
And trying to convince myself that it's just another commercial transaction hasn't worked so far.

an actress can play a serial killer in a movie.  They are playing a part.  its a fantasy.  They don't see it as "engaging" in an intimate act, but if they are doing their job, YOU will see it that way.  Their girl-parts are just props they use as an actress to create the fantasy you want.  It does not feel "intimate" to them.  They are way past that stage.  Emotions come into play for some customers, but rarely for a provider.  They "process it" just find, the same way you process going to your own job everyday.  The footlocker guys just wants to make a sale on the running shoes.  He could care less whether its an emotional moment for you.  The provider wants YOU to have an emotional moment and BELIEVE that she is to, so you will come back.  If you do repeat, she has done her job.  

Is skin contact the defining thing here?  

Did you really just say that shit out loud? YOU know exactly how a woman processes what she does with her body?  Any man in here who holds himself out as an authority on the female psyche just because you've humped a bunch of them for pay is seriously kidding himself. As the man said, "You may have fucked Elvis, but you didn't know him."

Others think of is as "it's just sex" and that's how most providers and even most mongers look at it.

This is an example of the #MeToo movement. It doesn't matter what you and OP think, it is what she thinks or interpreted. OP may have clarified, but we have no idea what she was thinking. Just like OP was butt hurt by her response, and remember we're only getting ONE side of this story - his version. And we know how that goes with just one side of the story. You can interpret or read it however you want, it is still his side of the story.

Not all skin-to-skin contact is the same.  A CMT (the licensed kind, not the hobby kind) does practice skin-to-skin contact, but it's very limited by TER standards.  It's just the skin on her hands and forearms touching your back, shoulders, chest, etc., and any part not being touched is draped with a towel.  In the hobby, we have full-body skin-contact and hands going all over.  It's like comparing a Culver's burger (good but not super great) to a USDA Prime burger in a Ruth Chris steakhouse.

That's like taking a Mac 25 and mixing it with soda, or even worse, with coke. lol

is that one cannot easily separate the person from the service as is the case for most other services. Even in the case where direct physical contact is generally part of the non-sexual services most of us would be perfectly fine with some device that could perform the service as well as another human.  

The point is, what is the breakpoint that makes it different? Is it the genital touching?  

First, remember I started my post by conceding I don't know what goes on in a woman's head. So despite your attempts to pigeon hole me and put me down, I'm pretty sure I don't qualify for white knight status. If you read my last review, or the over 100 I wrote under the handle Phunhog, you'd know I call balls and strikes and I don't put runners on base just to be nice. Hence, the lazy insults are both unwarranted and unhelpful to the dialogue.  

I've read a lot of your posts and it seems to me you're pretty thoughtful, so I would offer this additional thought. Of the 3-400 women I've seen in this world (I started long before there was a TER to help me keep count), I've never once even intimated to one that she shouldn't be doing this. All the women I've seen are adults (at least by age) and that decision is entirely theirs. But i suspect all of us have walked out of a session thinking "That was so awkward I'm not going back there until this person at least can pretend for an hour that she's comfortable doing this". And that's all I was getting at. The OP got me thinking about some of those "YMMVs" we see in reviews and the widely divergent experiences with the same girls. Not to mention some of the famous flameouts we've seen on these very boards. But I wouldn't be here fucking women in exchange for money if I didn't believe, all other things being equal, that we are all adults making independent decisions.

And now I'm going to double down on it.  I'm coming up on having seen 1000 providers in the past 12 years, have dated over 50 OTC and had outside L-T real-life relationships with eleven, counting my current GF.  I don't hold myself out as an authority on the "female psyche" but I have enough experience in this biz and dating providers on the outside to speak confidently about provider perspective when it comes to how they view their job  and their customers.  I'm confident that GaGa would concur that when you have a real outside relationship with a provider, you will hear the unvarnished truth about how they view their time with their customers. I have actually come to give them more credit and respect after learning about how they manipulate the intricate social dynamic with customers who are trying to buy love and not just sex.  If they have sold YOU that there's some kind of emotional moment when they have sex with you, then kudos for you both. It means you have found a keeper as a provider, and they have found a regular customer that they can count on for a recurring revenue stream, which is what all working girls want.  Its a win-win.  

Intimacy is subjective.  For example massage.  Under Islam massage is only allowed to be done by a person of the same gender.  And large areas of the body are forbidden zones.  And of course when we get to clothing, we've all seen Islamic females hidden under those garbage bag like tents they are forced to wear -- lest our eyes get too intimate.
.
You can say that escorts are unlike waitresses or mechanics or even massage therapists on some psychic level ... and you could be right ... for specific individuals.  It all depends on what they believe.  But it is not universal that all escorts view sex as some sort of sacred thing -- some shame inducing activity.  

I love how you guys say you've fucked over 100 women or even a 1,000, numerous girlfriends and wives and ex-wvies. All that tells me is you don't have a fucking clue about women or you'd be with the same one and not fucking around - or you have your own baggage like the OP.  

As an example people raised in religious households had it beaten into their heads that sex was much more than a physical act, and decades of having something pounded into your head is very hard to undo. Most of this world believes in some kind of "invisible sky daddy" that is highly judgmental and demands total obedience if you want happiness in your eternal life. Trying to undo generations of brow beating is tough to do, and they can't help but project their own feelings on the subject onto the sex workers they see, but are secretly, or not so secretly ashamed about "having to see" because of their human "weakness"  I think it's much like many still closeted gay people who are members of highly religious families must feel.

It all just depends.

I had no idea that we had a new GD Board moderator.  

I'm not closing anything GaG. Just adding my 2 cent on the discussion. Seriously, do you really think I was saying "CONVERSATION CLOSED"?

When you said "in conclusion" considering you hadn't said ANYTHING in this branch up til then it sure sounded like you were attempting to "conclude" the conversation. Did they change the meaning of "conclude" when I wasn't looking as well? lol

Or perhaps that this was the conclusion I (or perhaps others or what I think other could) come to after reading it.

Maybe I am just so used to parsing words with the likes of BPOS, that I am splitting hairs a bit.

I was actually thinking about your reputation and comment to MasterZen about a return to form.

Male menopause is a bitch.  LOL

Ive heard several variations of this joke....but it never gets old.
...Or incorrect.

but that has to be the lamest Genie I've ever heard. What good is being magical if you're going to whine about resource constraints. You never heard that crap on I dream of Jeanie did you?

Who was listening to anything, I wanted to bang Barbara Eden so bad as a 13 year old. She was hot.

The fact that you are still doing just adds to the evidence that GaG lives in your head rent-free.  He controls your mind, and you can't resist following him around the boards anymore.  He literally owns you, but its doubtful he would get more than $3.62 if he tried to sell you to someone else.  An argument could even be made that he would have to PAY someone to haul you away to the dump.  

TV censors wouldn't let her show her belly button.

every married couple on TV slept in twin beds, and no DFK on TV.    Now they practically show them fucking.  

Ginger and Mary Ann also couldn't show their belly buttons circa 1964.  Star Trek had Uhura display hers in 1967 and Nancy Kovack also on Star Trek in 1968.  And Cher regularly showed her navel in 1971 and beyond.  But the first navel award goes to Yvette Mimieux in 1964 on Dr. Kildare.  The code was eliminated in 1984 having been first established in 1951.  Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Charging admission.  

In all reality; no person should be treating sex workers in a nasty way (Reguardless, if you are being sarcastic tone or saying actual nasty things in a degrading tone.).  First of all,  if it wasn't for people such as the "PROUD HOBBYISTS"  who see us "THE PROVIDERS", Then the sex workers "PROVIDERS" wouldn't be doing what they are doing (If you understand what I am saying).  

Kitty, Exactly.