I love the free interaction that this board has represented for some time.  That brings about playful jabbing and an occasional step over the line.  Recently, we've sunk to the level of pre-teens at a dance.  On one side of the room sits the bully and his friends, shouting "fag" at everyone not in their group.  On the other side, the sensitive group is crying out that it's unfair.  There is an easy fix.  BOTH SIDES NEED TO GROW THE FUCK UP!!!

For those that don't think I pull or disallow any posts, I just checked.  I have 507 pages (at 25 per page) of disallowed posts.  I don't get a prize at 25,000 posts, but I'll go there if that's what it takes to get you to pretend to be adults.  I hate moderating people, because frankly it makes more work for me, but I will be moderating anyone that can't understand this message.

Not without good reason. You've also moderated me. For the same.

Sometimes we get carried away, LP. My apologies.

it will all work itself out soon.

you're still my favorite.


can i have my cheeseburger now? lol

Who validate themselves by criticizing, mocking, looking down on, or otherwise just being all around assholes to others. These are small minded folks who need to belittle others purely to raise their own sense of self worth.

On the flip side, there will always be individuals who validate themselves by pitching fits and stirring up other forms of needless drama so that they can locate substitute parents or other "saviors" to fight their battles for them. By acting weak, these folks raise their self worth by getting others to show that they "care" enough to "save them".

You've got a critical parent/victimized child psychological game going on here. People pull this game all the time in the real world, and personally I could care less when they do it on their own time. (I have this delightful fantasy of throwing them all in the Thunder Dome to let them verbally dramatize each other to death.) The problem comes when these folks muck up the boards, forcing everyone else to wade through their personal shit.

Unfortunately, boards such as this are one big anonymous feeding grounds for psychological issues. It usually doesn't get better (most boards eventually go and stay downhill), especially with greater ease of access, and it tends to drive the more interesting posters to seek out other places to contribute. This board in particular seems to have a special peanut gallery that eggs on this behavior simply to enjoy watching the train wreck.

Human behavior is what it is. You can yell all you want, but you're just feeding into the game. I'm all for free, constructive speech, but there really need to exist stricter rules and punishments (deterrents, so you don't reach that 25,000 mark) for anyone who resorts to baseless name throwing or other slanderous one word accusations without any foundation or justification to back up their opinions (including but not limited to "white knight", "black knight", or any of that other crap that just stirs the drama pot), or any other behaviors that you notice repeatedly stir up major problems.

I realize that most of us are Americans, and thus have a pretty powerful sense of entitlement. However, being on this board is a PRIVILEGE, just like any other board. Treating it like a privilege through simple set forth expectations on exactly what does not qualify as "adult behavior" and swift execution of punishment when infractions occur is the best way to set the stage for excellence.

... practically every time you post it just further confirms what an amazing woman you are.

I wouldn't clone you, as that would just diminish your value. But I sure would like to see more people (of both sexes) with some of your mindsets.

I won't hold my breath waiting for that! lol

Meanwhile, I see a flaw in Phil's approach. That is, yelling at both the aggressors and defenders.

No, you do not yell at someone for defending himself/herself. That's why the classification of "justifiable homicide" exists. Instead, you identify the aggressor and deal with the aggressor.

If I'm ever in the same city, I need to look you up.

The defenders as you call them are equally to blame IMHO.  When someone wants to make an ass of themselves, they are freely allowed to do so.  If they get no attention, they will lose interest.  However, if defense becomes interaction, the defender becomes enabler.  Proving yourself to be correct only proves that you can be baited, and the cycle of stupidity continues.

We all know that Eve is correct.  She's among the brightest as well as most attractive women that frequents the board.  I find it troubling that she thinks we're doomed.  Hopefully she is incorrect, just this once.  If so, I'll move onto my next fantasy that involves her.

Because away from a forum, in the real world, defense tends to be definitive and as a result doesn't enable/encourage. But within a forum it can do so.

many "victims" are deliberately seeking out punishment. Ever know that guy at work who goes on and on about how he drinks to much, or smokes to much, and that terrible hangover he came into work with this morning? Often, these sorts are looking for someone to agree that their behavior is "bad" and thus justify this individual's negative view of himself. This is what Eric Berne titles a psychological game (in this case, he refers to the game as "kick me," which is rather apt in my opinion)

Likewise, some individuals seek out vindication through an outside party purely for their own psychological games. These sorts of individuals will deliberately look for opportunities to insert themselves in the role of victim, simply so they may get their own mental "fix." As such, these individuals are responsible for stirring up just as much drama as the "aggressors." The trick, however, is to distinguish between those individuals who are simply being attacked out of left field, and those who look for opportunities to stir up attackers or fling themselves into the fray for the sake of being victimized. Usually, one can distinguish the former from the latter simply based on the victim's follow up responses to an attack.

... and I stand corrected!

I had never really put a term to the "kick me" types; but learned to abandon them once identified.

I would hope everyone reads your words and takes them to heart.

Your message pertains to many things, not just what is said on this message board.

For those who do not get the message from you and LP....I would suggest a re moderation of that person. There has been entirely too much bashing, putting others down and outright attacks.

Intelligence is always appreciated.

Take care Eve!

Islands of good will where each pursues self-interest without infringing that pursuit in others can exist; even in circumstances where broader trends run counter. The key is as you said -- maintaining discipline among those who would compromise the island.

Since when was that a requirement?

I think half the mods would be moderated had we known.

I'm finding that the easiest way to enjoy the board is:

don't take it seriously,
just read for regular amusement, rarer enlightenment,
post less.

Except as a rhetorical device in a trainwreck thread, the psychoanalysis of a discussion board poster is fraught with uncertainty. It is easier to be amusing than right about one's fellows on the board.

I'm posting way less, enjoying it more.

I would expand this statement to include words "instant gratification"

We as society are pretty much 5 year olds with sense of entitlement for instant gratification.

Observe kids on playground  - if the see a toy they like they have to have it NOW.  Not tomorrow, not a week from now, but this very moment.

Every little side glance and slight word and different opinion becomes personal insult and grounds for drama.

When you have entire society operating on this premise, you end up with what we have now.

Country of people who purchased houses they could not afford.  People who insist that someone has to "cut guy a break" because he wants his toy to satisfy his desires while he is financially disadvantaged.

Ladies who think that every negative opinion expressed by other individuals was aimed at them personally.

Gentlemen who think that refusal of DFK due to their hygiene constitutes personal insult to their egos.

And on and on and on this "i am the center of universe" induced behaviour goes.

We have to learn such concepts as PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and CONSEQUENCES for our behaviours.

It is personal responsibility of each and single one of us to act as adults.

Luck of such behavior will result in ... CONCEQUENCES

Lina

what just is, on this board. However, I'd like this board to be more than just a chance to start, participate in, or watch a train wreck, started by someone bitch-slapping another, just for personal or entertainment purposes. Many of us, who come to this board, do so because we have no other avenue to express our experiences of the hobby. Those of us who want that, and believe there are rules outlined by TER to encourage that, and complain when others are disrupting the process, are not wall-flowers at a high-school dance, who are asking for, nor feeling a need to be protected. We are just trying to maintain a place where as many members, as possible, feel like they can dialog about their hobby experiences, be heard, and responded to in a reasonable civil manner.

Brilliantly stated Lina....I think I am in serious lust...

Some of prefer a lot. Others have no sense of it.

It is often difficult to tell whether a crudeness or a dramatic gesture is intended as humor or abuse. It's often in the eye of the reader as well as the mind of the writer. Intentions and effects might not match. I do think there is some degree of hazing of new members.

But after a while you get to know whether or not a post is going to be worthwhile or useless before you open it. It sure saves time just not opening the latter.

Now, I'm never going to agree that those who object to the hazing are "more to blame". It takes two to tangle or tango. So don't get me wrong. I think anyone who feels put upon can respond as they like, see if it helps, and adjust their responses as needed.

There is a phenomenon in politics (and previously in religion) that has unfortunately become a part of daily life.

The demonization of those who disagree.

If someone wants universal health care, he thinks those who don't want it must be callous evildoers and the second coming of Hitler at worst, and just plain ignorant fools at best.

If someone doesn't want universal health care, he thinks those who want it must be worthless layabouts and the second coming of Stalin at worst, and just plain ignorant fools at best.

This sort of mindset, where people cannot have an actual discussion without impugning the motives and even humanity of those who disagree with them finds its way into almost every issue -- including issues discussed on this board.

It is little different than the mindset of Inquisitors screaming "heretic."

A person can't simply have a different approach, s/he must be misguided/evil/whatever.

These sorts of attitudes result in people feeling self-righteously entitled to not just be nasty on message boards; but hurt others in real life far disproportionately to what is actually deserved.

It's a sad thing.

HOWEVER -- there do exist plenty of people who are not like that. And that is what makes it all fun and worthwhile.

I dare you lol

Just joking babe, but you are right, and I used to fall for "The Bait" a lot when I first entered this hobby 4 years ago. I WAS A MESS!!! But we all learn, hopefully, in time and with the caring support of those around us

Will you marry me?! Damn, a woman that beautiful with that mind! If you can cook then I would have found the most perfect woman.

b-

but lp does raise a potentially valid counter-point.

It would be better still if these things could be nipped in the bud.

I grew up in the South, of course I can cook. I can also garden, sew, grout tile...hell, I can even chew bubble gum and walk at the same time! Just don't ask me to clean! LOL

However, I have absolutely zero interest in marriage at anytime with anyone ever. You're welcome to submit an application to rent me, though!

If people can't behave and post in accordance with the rules, then they should be prepared to have their ramblings rejected. We're all adults here. There's no excuse for not acting as such.

I personally think Big Phil is doing a fantastic job. Keep up the good work, my dear friend!

In that regard, Phil is right on in comparing it to school behavior, because a lot of teens are still at the level of development.  

Concurrent with not being able to debate ideas is the inability to tolerate the ideas or comments of others that disagree with you.  Once again, resorting to name calling rather than thinking and articulating a reasoned response.

The fact is, a public board will always trend toward chaos and rudeness without a moderator to set an acceptable standard of behavior.  It's unrealistic to think otherwise.

Love Goddess doesn't tolerate anybody's shit, yet her board remains the most interesting board on TER, IMO, and the one where people can openly seek advice without fear of being mocked or ridiculed.  When someone goes over the line, she either deletes the thread as inappropriate, or reprimands the poster and gives them a clear warning.  

Whether you're a teacher, parent, training a pet, or moderating a discussion board, you get the behavior you're willing to tolerate.  If you show you won't tolerate rude, demeaning or childish behavior, it will subside.  If people think they can get away with it, it will increase.  And if it's allowed to increase, it will drive away the more civilized and better behaved posters, because public boards always sink to the lowest common denominator without an effort to keep them on track.  This is why the cycle always trends downward on boards unless the moderator sets ground rules and then strictly enforces them.

It would be nice to think we're more evolved than that, and maybe 95% of us are, but it only takes a vocal minority to create a hostile environment.  And who is to say that some of these posters that set such a negative tone aren't in fact juveniles who sit around their computer making smart-ass remarks on a board that talks about sex- just like if they were in the boys locker room.  Hey, if TER existed when I was 15, my buddies and I probably would have done exactly that.