Has anyone ever felt that they made a mistake in trusting someone they met either as a hobbyist or as a provider?
I've been pondering lately as to the line between where to trust that "white knight"..
if he says he "only wants the best for you.." /or vice versa with that "ATF"?

Obviously this not intended  with just anybody ..yet, can you EVER let your guard down??
Must a provider ALWAYS be "on guard"?..to the point that you need to just completely shelter yourself?/or wish I had never met that one person?


Can there be a time when a person can just be a human being with feelings..?? or is that a complete fallacy? When I owned a store I never felt the need to completely disguise my "business license" ..it was the law!! I post all necessary information..
I , by no means am saying throw everything or even anything more than what is needed..

It has been coming to light lately that even though some people realize this is a forum for safety on both sides of the fence..
others feel its an oppurtunity to kick someone down or feel the need to cause undue stress..to the point that your "livelyhood" and your families safety /shelter rests on the true integrity of that one hobbyist/provider that you had a moment of reacting to "human nature"
As in any profession I find that being a "good person" is always better than causing friction or chaos..
I am not intending this towards anyone or any situation ..rather a mere observation lately as a provider that genuinely has no ill will.. Just a topic of interest..
Again, please no assumptions.. I merely want to know if others have felt that "wow,I never saw that coming?"with a person they had known via this industry?
Thanks again for allowing me the oppurtunity to speak freely from the heart..
with true sincereity,
Lovely Lorena

No matter the situation, scenario, mileiu......

There is no reason not to conduct yourself in the most forthright fashion. Keep your eyes open. As funky as this arena may me it does not mean basic decency is shed at the door. Kharma is all around us. Fact of the matter for me is in acknowledging humanity I feel most pleasantly refreshed...

Hi Lorena,
I always treat my friends, colleagues and providers with the upmost respect, and expect likewise.  In general, I'm a good judge of character, or I could be just lucky, but nothing bad has happened to me or my family.  I have on a couple of occasions given the benefit of the doubt to folks who then turned around and screwed me, but they were minor, trivial and never occurred twice.  From the stories I have heard, I think the biggest danger for providers are hobbyists who became stalkers.  So getting emotionally involved or allowing them to get involved can be a mistake.
Trust your instincts.

Hope to CU soon Lorena.

Yes I agree. There has to be an element of trust. I can tell stories of trust and mistrust.But humans are human.

I think there is a time that one can let their guard down to a degree, but it would require time for the relationship to develop so that either the provider or hobbyist would feel comfortable doing so. So yes, I do believe either can just be a human with feelings, but with the caveat that it must be approached with extreme care. So must one always be "on guard"? Probably so in general, but there will be those providers or hobbyist that will stand apart from the rest that you can be yourself with. It just  takes time to discover who they are.

in a very trusting manner, yet I'm always listening to my gut regarding how safe it is to trust someone. I tend not to trust someone very deeply, whom I do not know their personal circumstances, since I know people will change their behavior if their life circumstances makes them feel threatened, or if they're feeling desperate. This particularly applies to the hobby.

I believe Providers tend to trust hobbyists who are generous, consistent, and who knows how to treat them well. And Hobbyists trust providers who always delivers great service, not a clock watcher, and has that natural talent to make them feel comfortable.

When trust is develop, at first, through these superficial business-like facades .. it is possible that a deeper sense of trust is formed and the masks/armors that we use to protect our soft inner feelings begin to chip off. We get to expose true ourselves and become courageous that we can trust. I say that the act of trusting takes courage, because you are exposing yourself to another who can easily destroy what you have entrusted to that person.

My take on it is that if one discovers that true geniune trust has developed, then let it be. Magic and courage does happens even in the mundane.

Myself, I got into this to meet people. Most especially ladies, in hopes of having sex with them. And that's it.  

But the strangest thing happened. I met women and men that shared the same interest, amongst other interests. Shared PMs and such and realized I wasn't alone in my thinking.

WTF's wrong with having feelings? Lorena, you and I do for each other. Right? Am I wrong? We met, had a wonderful time, and I hope to have many more with you.

We've become friends and share experiences. WTF's wrong with that?

I know Goddam well there are many people here that talk with eachother. Whether thru PM, email or on the phone.

And it isn't all about how tight this girl's pussy is. Or how big that dude's cock was.

Now, I know I'm not the 'model' hobbyist. I drink, and I spew off all sorts of shit. That's me.

But I hoped everyone knew it was 'mostly' in jest. Clearly not the case. And that's alright.

But I'm with you, lady. I've seen too much fucked up shit in my life. I refuse to lie down and say 'fuck it'.

I have hope. Believe it or not, I've gained so much out of this community. I know most don't see it, but I'm trying to put back what I've gotten out of it, if that makes any sense.

I can appreciate what you're saying, especially since this is your's, and other lady's livelihood.

But in the same respect, is it really just a business? I mean, can't people with similar interests get together?

Just me I guess...

you're willing to objectify yourself and/or others. if you're going to treat people as people, then it's much more difficult. it's part of being human.

i'd rather have that difficulty. without it i'd know i'm dead but just don't know it yet.

but it's not just about "wanting the best" for others either versus malice. it's not just about "nice folks" versus scammers. there are "in between" cases.

there may be good intentions but things can go badly because of misunderstandings or old baggage. something innocent gets a completely unexpected response. being human i've been on both sides of that one. who hasn't?

is there "good enough" intention and communication to get past those little hiccups or not? that's key to making sure that it all stays within mutually comfortable boundaries and doesn't create an unnecessary wreck.

TRUST…….what an interesting word. As we all know it is a cruel world out there filled with good and bad and you never know what may happen. Lorena you have known me for several years and I can honestly tell you, you never know, I have had and do have several business and deal with all types of people work related and socially, my I say some of the coolest people I have met are from TER, but people are funny and can turn on a dime. So keep moving forward and just be the best person you can be…KARMA BABY it is real!!!

Lorena, Lover43 summed it up in that.  This business revolves around people, and you have the same spectrum of good ones and bad ones in this business as you do in life.

Do you take risks in "real life" every time you trust someone?  Yes, obviously.  Do you take reasonable precautions?  Yes.  Do those precautions vary person to person and situation to situation?  Yes.

I believe the biggest difference here is the distribution of people.  I've come across a larger fraction at the two ends:  very honest, sincere, almost bordering on naive as well as more who use the anonymity (and fear of reporting things to LE) to take advantage of others.

I have met some providers I would trust implicitly.  I've also been taken advantage of in small things at times, but I sever those situations before they become serious.  Only once was I sucker punched by someone I had completely trusted.  That's happened to me more outside this business than in it.

Hobbyists and providers alike represent a cross-section of humanity. Certainly, that cross-section is self-selecting on various parameters -- such as risk tolerance -- but I've seen no evidence that hobbyists or providers are less trustworthy than the population at large.

So the experience of a provider or hobbyist in terms of dishonesty, betrayal, stalking or being hurt in some fashion is likely no greater than in dealing with people at large.

I don't think people's involvement in the hobby changes the odds. But, because such intimate and personal stuff is involved; when these things DO happen, it is a bigger deal. I'm sure everyone has been lied to or ripped off by a salesman at some point, falsely accused of something by a corporation, sued for something that wasn't real, etc. etc. etc.

I once had a situation in which someone who thought I owed them money hired an attorney to get it from me. The attorney deliberately "served" me at an address where I had not lived for five years so that I wouldn't know about the court date and he'd win a default judgment. (He seriously misjudged me. LOL)

I once had a woman threaten to open up a can of sexual harassment worms on me if I *didn't* sleep with her.

I once had a business partner steal obscene amounts of money from me -- legally, so there was no ordinary recourse.

I once had a woman stalk the crap out of me until I went to her elderly parents and explained how badly her life could be messed up if she didn't stop.

All of this in civie life.

However, in the hobby, I have never had a provider pull slick tricks in trying to sue me (or sue me at all), steal anything from me, stalk me or attempt to blackmail me in any way.

Partly, this is because I can be choosy about whom I see. In the real world, I often have no choice about the people with whom I come into contact. But within the hobby I can afford to be picky.

But that's not all. There is also an element of self-interest. Whereas in civie life it is often possible for someone do evade responsibility for misbehavior; the hobby can be ruthlessly self-policing.

A provider can have an exemplary record for years within the community and provably screw over one hobbyist just once -- and she's toast. A hobbyist can have an exemplary record for years, and short an envelope just once -- and he's blacklisted.

So within the hobby I have generally found people to be on their best behavior; because something that would be a minor failure or annoyance in civie life can be a disaster in hobby life.

Either way, I say it is almost a non-issue, NOT because people don't/can't hurt each other within the hobby; but rather because the fact that we are dealing with hobbyists and providers makes these issues no more likely than they would be with equivalent civies. If anything, it makes them less likely.

sigh. never again though. i am still working on untangling myself from that mess.

yes, even i am human, as much as it galls me to admit it.

i really like you. i have to meet you lorena. one day....lol.

being a good person is always a good thing..and giving others the benefit of the doubt. but proceed with caution in any case.

one must be careful...and perhaps, sad to say, never let your guard down. i wish it wasnt that way...

but eh. live and learn. watch out for the snakes in the grass.

Good post

there is a difference, in my opinion, between trust and contract. By that I mean, when you agree to see a client , there is a certain contract , even though it's only stated. If both parties agree to the terms, you have a deal. When you or the client "trust" each other, ie- with personal info, sensitive personal contact oportunities, or even bringing  that person into your circle of friends, there is a different kind of risk. As a businesswoman, your risk is that your business can be interrupted or even terminated by risk- as a person , or "friend' your risk is emotional. Clients who choose to risk a friendship with you risk exposure in the work-place or their personal life. i've known other hobbyiests who worried about what might happen if they pissedoff the provider they had become friends with. I've also known providers who havwe had their hearts broken by a hobbiest who played them for their trust.

Once again Johh you have out done yourself...could not of put it any better myself. =)

Once again I feel like I owe you an envelope, for the great reading !!

I hate to across the board feel no one can be trusted.  But I'm not a advocate of showing all your cards or not keeping some parts of a life to yourself.

People (men and women) can be jealous and everyone always has their own motivations for anything the do... not all motivations are malevolent.

Getting to know a person and finding any level of trust is a gradual process. Given time people will reveal the best and worst about themselves.

There are two funny items.. one in the southpark episode (free online this season) where cartman is helping Stan? to find a friend for his facebook page using videocam roulette (that newish program where, using the program, a person randomly connects with a strangers webcam anonymously) The problem is 98% of the people are jacking. in the episode Stan says 'this is bullshit. all these guys are jacking' and Cartman says 'thats the way it is Stan. You have to go thru alot of dicks to make a friend' ha ha so true.

The other, one of the last SNL shows with Alec Balwin as host (free online this season). One skit Alec is a client buying a pro's time and he acts like he's trying to help her out of the biz and asks her all these personal Q's. The pro falls for it and then ALEC asks for a hand job becuz he's be getting the personal info cuz that is what makes his dick hard. ah ha....  
Not so funny in writing but I think it would make most us girls laugh.

I'm for getting to know people and keeping the possiblity that there are good and trust worthy people still in the world.  A guarded and realistic opptimist?

I truly needed a little guidance and feedback on this topic..
Im glad to see that my feelings and thoughts are understood and again I most appreciate EVERYONE'S input..
Thank you
lorena

Trust comes from shared experience and not from a hobbyist that says you can trust me. It's more likely that someone you meet in this space is harmless, but then there's the ever conniving SOB that wants to do you harm, be that your person or your wallet. Trust can be a quandary of sorts and one not without a dilemma or two. Then again, it depends. Sharing yourself as you do even without all of your labels is enough. Don't look for deep relationships in the $4P space.

A truly difficult question. I'm a white night and like to think I have integrity. But having been in the hobby I have made some observations. There are providers who may be good people a heart but sometimes put that aside for survival. They do what they do to survive. As for the white nights we are usually missing something in our lives and seek approval and affection in the hobby. With that said we both keep our guard up.

But I have made some deeper connections in the hobby and found truly beautiful people both inside and out. But I also have observed that for most, love can only be defined by exclusivity! But as we grow our interests expand and may require more than we have in our current relationships to be fulfilling.

Within the past few months I have seen outings in the hobby and in civie life. I do not see any benefit for a gent to out a provider when there is affection but would be concerned if I pissed him off. But the opposite is true for a provider because they believe they can gain possession if the can divide and conquer. Again it is all the exclusivity thing.

I do believe that once you understand a persons belief system you can share feelings and build trust. But it is a slow process and trust must be earned before you can find love.

Dead give away to stay away. Indeed, there are many whom you can trust and all of them have pride and philosophy/principle they live by. Just like some you can bribe and some you cant' regardless of what and how much.

The problem is identifying them because they don't say much about themselves.

You can let your guard down but it very difficult to know when.  If you do decide to trust someone that you meet in this business you need to do it with your eyes open to a certain extent.

There are a lot of guys out there who will try and play the sincerity card to get in the good graces of a provider.  In general, when a guy starts telling you that that he "only wants the best for you" what he is probably saying is that he wants what is best for him...

Caring relationships require that we become vulnerable. The more caring, the more vulnerable.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of people care much more about their own needs/wants/entertainment than they do others'. Test the waters thoroughly before jumping in.

Wow, Can I put you on my bucket list?

I'm used to being on guard I honestly think that's part of my nature to be a little guarded even to people I am around outside of work and with visitors I can only see myself getting but so close to any maybe just because when I started this I did so solely for money and not because I lack friends or family or attention, etc. Good or bad I take what people say with a grain of salt no matter who it is.

Sometimes it’s backwards.  “TRUST?” I don’t believe all people are inherently evil, but some have more selfish motives.   A “fallacy” is when we allow ourselves to believe in something that truly doesn’t exist.  I unfortunately have been guilty of crossing that line.  Maybe my guard has fallen one more time to “pretentious” scripts & “dialogue”.   That’s why at times we must step back and take distance of people, events or actions that may put us at risk (financially and emotionally).

We are humans and this isn’t just an industry condition.  It’s life!

Protect YOURSELF, protect your FAMILY!

I wish you well.