Hi All:
First of all I'd like to thank all of you who were kind enough to give me your thoughts on this subject earlier.

Sadely though Dad passed away VERY suddenly early this morning.

I recieved a call from my sister last friday telling me that he was back in the hospital but not in any danger of suddenly dying. Consequently,based on his mood when I spoke with him a few days earlier I decided to let him rest.

I had planned to go up later this week after taking care of some personal business that at the time I felt, based on his condition  as I knew it would not have been a problem. Then I planned to see for myself what he was up against and decide whether or not I would ask him about whether or not I have a brother somewhere.

But apparently the man upstairs had other plans. I received a call from my sister very early this morning. Apparently, his lungs just quit on him and he was gone. From what I understand it's a mystery even to his Doctor. I have another question to ask you all, but before I do I wish to personally thank all those who responded.
They are:
BBrain
Kend5
Masked Avenger
rbear
Emperore Palpatine
Bizzaro Superdude
acidom
Ciara has Fun
CiaraPhx
Lone Haranguer
and OC Summer

Summer I hear what you'r saying, and after the dust settles so to speak I may very well email you and take you up on your offer.

I would have liked to PM all of you personally, but it seems that I have a virus that I can't get rid of. As a result, I can recieve and read PM's, but not send them.

As I said above, I need to impose on you all, as well as anyone else who wishes to, their thoughts on this final issue.

Dad told me long ago that he didn't want a funeral. he said "cremate me and be done with it" He also specifically told me to not tell anyone till after he'd been taken care of.

He was a Korean war veteran (1973 was not the first time he'd been there). In addition, he retired in 1975 with 28 years service.

Now, I can arrange to have him buried, or his ashes interred in a National Cemetary, with a full military honor guard.

Now obviously we are all still in shock, and I have a little time before, I have to make a decison, as I am the executor of his estate.
But while speaking to my sister earlier today, and before I could bring it up she said that he did not want a full dress military funeral.

I think he deserves it. Even with his faults he laid his life on the line for us. Granted he did it before most of us were born, but he did it.

So do I follow his wishes, and just quitely say good bye, or do I do what "I" think is right? I know that sounds arrogant, and in the back of my mind I can already hear him yelling at me to do as I was told. I'm not making this  next part up, as I finished that last sentence I suddenly realized that he's gone. He's gone, and once again, as when my fiance' passed away about five years ago, I have unfinished business that I will once again not be able to do anything about.

Anyway, now I'm rambling. Once again thank you all for your support, and if you would be kind enough to give me your feedback I'd be greatful.

Respectfully.

Cliff

I just had to plan a funeral for one of my military buddies. Then after that, two others died. It isn't easy, especially for you since he was your dad. I don't know what to tell you to do about his funeral. One part of me says, "Do exactly as he asks because those are his wishes", while another part of me says, "Give him the honor of a military funeral." I guess that's something you have to decide. Does he have any friends that would attend the military funeral? I guess you need to find out about his military buddies, too. Also, was your dad just telling you this because he didn't want you to go through the trouble of putting on a military funeral? Sometimes we say things we really don't mean. I don't envy you at all, and I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.  

Hugs,
Ciara

From a few of the things you posted just now, your father sounds the sort I would have been honored to have known.

OK, you're the executor.   You can't know what he was thinking.  Funerals aren't for the dead, they're for the family.   If I were doing it, (and I ain't - you are) I'd put a lot of stock in what the family thinks he wanted, because that's the customary way they honor the memory - it's about remembering him the way they wanted.

So your vote is "full military" because you think he rates it, and that's the way you want to remember him.  Sister's vote is "simple", because that's what she thinks he wanted.  Who else is voting, and what else do they think?

See, it's not really about voting, it's about the way the family wants to remember him, and while you're the guy with the authority, authority is best used to the benefit of the most people.  You are least likely to regret it if you use it that way.

Sorry for your loss, but in my experience, the best way to deal with it is to divert yourself with what remains to be done - the funeral, etc etc.  If you act like life goes on, you will convince yourself, and more importantly, the people who depend on you.

A funeral really is for the living, so that we may remember the deceased. I would tend to follow the wishes of the deceased, but I would also take into account whether his wishes was consistent with how he lived his life.

I hate to tell you what to do; you asked for opinions so I'll give mine. What one wants to do with his body is very personal; I would cremate. I'm not sure what I think about the full dress military funeral; I would tend to follow his wishes. There is a need for the living to remember your father, so a memorial service should be the minimum.

Even though you are the executor of his estate, whatever you decide you should get a consensus from your sister.

I am so sorry to hear of your father's passing. I'm sure that this is a very difficult time to make decissions. This is probably not the best time to beat youself up over unfinished business. It is and will always be unfinished. There may be other ways to find information about your brother at a later date.

As for the funeral I personally think that they are more for the survivors than they are for the person that has passed. I think that you should do what is going to make you and your family feel most comfortable. You do need to consider one thing that many of us don't think about at this point in time. Often times people need a place where they can visit their loved ones long after they have passed. You do need to chose carefully as to where you bury your father for that reason.

Again, my heart goes out to you in your time of grief. You have my email address if you need it.

Summer

I wish there were words that would help you in this trying time. It must be tough not getting to say goodbye. Too bad he passed before you got your chance. If you believe in a holy presence, I'm sure your prayers will be heard by him. As for the funeral, I'd like to see him be honored for his long military service, but if your sister has any objections I don't think it'd be a good idea. If it's just the two of you, perhaps you can decide together.

I do not know what my father's wishes were regarding a funeral (he passed when I was 25 and I hadn't lived at home since I was 17).  I do know that it was a tremendous eye-opener and revelation for me to attend his funeral (in his casket, he wore his dress blues - he was a Navy WWII pilot).  My dad had been a civvie solo lawyer since my birth.  I wish I could remember all of the names of the number of strangers, men and women, some military vets, all of whom  shook my hand, told me they always appreciated what my dad had done for them or how his advice meant a lot to them, what a good man he'd been.  It was remarkable for me.  A new and wholly unexpected person emerged and gave me a far different, more balanced perspective compared to the distant, demanding, reserved hard-drinking man I'd known and with whom I'd butted heads far too many times in my rebellious teenage years.  I say without doubt: have the memorial service if you want!  I am glad my family did.

-- Modified on 12/12/2005 6:04:18 PM

cliff  in my opinion if your dad wished to be quitly cremated i think that you should honor his last request to cremate his body and if possible have his ashes intered at a national
military cemetary. I presume that this is something that can be done quietly with diginity.  Once his ashes are intered you could then make an announcement in the local paper or write to his familly--if any members are left living.  I would also explain that he wanted a quiet funeral and you have complied with his wishes.

...and I've been pondering leaving Mom & Dad out on the plains like the Sioux did.

You always seem to bring light into any situation. Thank you!

Hugs,
Ciara

Perhaps better than any sermon or lecture ever did.  But what I learned more than anything else was how much my father was appreciated by those around him.  While I always enjoyed him, I never understood the friendships that he not only had, but that he maintained.  My father's passing was a strange affair, we all sat up the night before his funeral and told stories of him and his method of dealing with life - with humor, dignity, honesty and loyalty.  clearly things that are not the bywords of today.  He was a WWII vet, and while we did not bury him with a full military honors- we did request a flag of service (I think from the VFW - the funeral home suggested this) - and my mom keeps that flag as a remembrance.  

Lex, you joke about leaving them on the plains... but that is where my dad is buried... Seems that I never have the time to go to visit his grave, although I have managed to take his grandson and granddaughter to visit...   he would have loved them so.  

Have the funeral - follow his wishes ask for the flag (it does not mean a full military honors (perhaps Ciara could comment on that)- he trusted you with that...  You must have been a good and faithful son...  It must have meant a lot to him to entrust this honor to you.



-- Modified on 12/12/2005 7:53:09 PM

...his request for no military honors was out of modesty. He deserves those honors.

-- Modified on 12/12/2005 7:54:43 PM

Please accept my condolences and deepest sympathies for your loss.

As to your question of what you should do, I faced a similar situation when my mother died. I too was in charge of her estate and all the decisions fell to me. She had said she wished to be cremated, and that she have no funeral. I always tried to be as dutiful as my willfull nature would allow, so I did as she wanted, but also had a small memorial service for family and friends. We gathered at the mortuary where her ashes were going to be inurned in a columbarium. After the ceremony we went back to my house and sat around talking about my Mother, we shared our memories of her and our pain at her loss. We conforted each other by our stories and just by being together and were somehow less "alone" by knowing we shared the loss of a woman we had all loved.

As to my wishes being perhaps in opposition to hers. When she got sicker, when she was no longer able to take care of her personal business, when I had to fill out insurance forms, admission forms, pay bills and sign her DNR and such, when I was designated "sole care giver" I looked at it as just taking care of her business because she couldn't, and did as I knew she would have. After she died and everything fell to me with the estate I still looked at as just taking care of things as she would have, because she couldn't.  

My thoughts are with you and you family at this difficult time, and whatever you decide if you do it out of love for your father and respect for him and his memory it can't be wrong.

First I wish to convey my sincerest condolences for your most significant loss.
Your dad sounds as if he was a humble and unpretentious man by his burial wishes. His own humility should not overshadow what honor he is due, neither should ritualistic pomp drown his wish of a simple burial. Honor him with the remembrance and the rudimentary protocols of a military burial yet spare him the full formalities which he obviously felt uncomfortable with. I feel in this way your father’s wishes will be honored while his families pride and reverence for him will be addressed.

I am very sorry for your loss.

Any more on that would really be about me and my discomfort of not being able to say the right thing.

I will say that you might consider taking your time making any decisions. And once you do, get really clear with that decision. There never seems to be the perfect thing for everyone. Your father felt you would be the man for the job, so he must have believed what ever you choose will be perfect.

In the end that is what it will be, perfect.

Not sure if any one suggested this yet, but this is a way to do as he wished and also honor his military service.  
As it relates to the funeral and cremation, follow his wishes. Then,contact as many of his miltary buddies as you can and have a memorial service for him at the local post of the VFW and they should be more than honored to provide miltary honors at the service.
Again, my deepest condolances to you and your family.

My initial response was just to say cremate, as that was his wish (and mine, in case anyone is curious).  When we first met, you mentioned that your mother had recently passed.  I realize that I thankfully cannot identify with the emotions of such an event.  My parents are both still alive and kicking, albeit a bit slower these days.  Thanks again for being you...