wannarideher below, particularly in her distinction between hobbying and escorts?

How possessive would you be about an SO, assuming one?  

If it depends, what does it depend on?


"I like Oprah
Posted by wannarideher, 11/15/2005 8:21:29 PM

a husband should have some money set aside for gambling, drinking w/ buddies, hobbying but a marriage is a partnership and I don't want to hear about a man who allows his children to starve or doesn't pay the bills to see escorts.

Also, many a time a man died and a woman had never established credit herself and had trouble getting the utility bills in her name or didn't know what stocks her husband had. Every wife should know what is going on in case of an emergency.

If I was married, I would allow my husband some money to see someone else so long as they wore protection, but I don't want all my marital assests to go to gambling, alcohol, or escorts."

You mention her distinction between hobbying and escorts, but I don't see one. I don't think this is her point. And there are so few escorts maintaining a SO over a marriage-like period of time, that it's nearly a meaningless dialog.

But I agree with what she states.
everyman should have a shortleash
Then again . so should every woman

Furthermore, People wonder why escorts dont post more here. Its because they get heckled everytime they give their OWN opinion.

PS Oprah Sucks.. But i wonder if she watches Stedmans finances..  LOL

-- Modified on 11/16/2005 10:45:06 AM

a little is OK, a lot is not.

I'm wondering what other providers will say, and particularly what they think their non-provider sisters, friends would say.

Women (eg Oprah) go on incessantly about how sensitive they are, and better at dealing with people than men; but I don't see they're any better at putting themselves in any man's shoes, than men are at understanding them.  And I don't see women working in organized groups like men do - weddings are the closest they get to it, and those are NEVER organized, because women won't (generally) recognize hierarchy like men do.

Go to any divorce lawyer, and ask him/her what their female clients are like.  They will all use the same word:  "crazy".   I know because I've been there, and have several friends who are WOMEN divorce lawyers, and that's what THEY say.  What they say about the men is, "irresponsible" - and of course the question is, which came 1st, and which is the chicken, and which is the egg?

Hummmm  Ever hear of the orgs Women in Science?  there are several women's organizations to assist women entering the professional worlds of banking, business, entrepreneurship, law, medicine etc....   I just wish that we had some of these for the guys--- guess what - they don't!

But I must say, I agree with the comment on the divorce - I had a female lawyer - her comment - I love stickin it to other women - cause they are all so smug and somewhat irrational when looking at the good of the kids.

So mr crack - we agree!  on at least one thing - Won't Ciara be happy cause with her as the filling all that friction will be directed at her!  Lol!!

just a man/woman thing.  Men are used to what you call "heckling" - they call each other names, and trade punches in their work and play.  How often do you see fathers roughhousing with their sons?  It's PROGRAMMED IN, and none of them think about it.

EG, go to a public school, and compare what frightens the male and female teachers.  I've had female teachers tell me that assertive or commanding voices scare them.  (Of course they're lying, they're saying that to force men to be like women, and particularly to go along with their POV - your argument scares me, so you have to agree with me - merde!)   In the course of my divorce, we were ordered to a mediator, a woman who told me (and I am NOT exaggerating) that I "frightened" her by sitting on the edge of my chair.  (Lady, how many paunchy gray haired professionals have beaten you up recently?)

OK, so women don't like a locker room.  But to call it "threatening" is saying that they're a bunch of emotional wusses.   DISAGREEMENT IS NOT ABUSE.   Free speech is very valuable to any community, and not being afraid of speaking your mind is part of that.   If somebody says "nonsense" or "bullshit" or something more graphic, it's STILL "sticks & stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you"  - and if you don't get the ideas out, then one day there WILL be broken bones.  I KNOW, I've been there and done that, and lawyering is one hell of a lot cheaper and more painless than soldiering.

OK, so there are fundies who really believe that abortion clinics should be bombed, and doctors shot at, and they will talk like that here or anywhere.  The solution is deal with it - leave them alone or return fire.  Don't let them push you around.

BUT meanwhile, people (women included) who hide behind fear of disagreement will never exercise their minds; so their brains atrophy, and they become dingbats, you know?  Yes, I know it may be good for reproduction, but mindless reproduction isn't a good plan anymore.  

-- Modified on 11/16/2005 11:20:16 AM

You're talking about exceptions which I would concede.

I'm saying men & women behave differently in groups:  men will readily organize into hunting teams and subordinate themselves to authority for the sake of the team welfare - if there's a reasonable payoff.   Women are much more anarchistic - watch them do weddings and family reunions...

Women are learning to follow what are more typically male patterns, but the training is just plating over millions of years of hormones.  

There are always exceptions, but I'm talking about the default trend....

...an "I love Lex" post. Perhaps the ladies should consider posting more of those.

This from a guy who was given a bad performance review for having asked a group of secretaries to lower their voices!  In a work setting!  So that I could get some work done....   I was accused of looking at them "with my eyes"

On the male side?  I was accused of "unfairly using my knowledge" to my advantage on the job!?  

so chill, It's Ciara!  It is not nice to bug the Soccer Moms from Buffalo! lol  I crack me up.

I agree with wannarideme..  I Mean wannarideher

What mental games are we talking about men having?
You wanted to do your work, and you looked at the people you were talking to?  

Are you saying it was a *guy* who accused you of "unfairly using your knowledge"?  Assuming we're not talking about fraud or industrial espionage - did he get a slap upside the head that sent him into next week??  That would be my reaction.  But that's not a *game*, that's just fucking stupidity, and men can do that....

What both of us described can't be categorized as a 'game' because we both know (and so does everybody else) that (1) we're following the rules, and (2) it's the only way the bills will get paid; and (3) what's going on is that your egocentric chatterbox secretaries are just thoughtlessly trying to get in the way.  

But I know what you're talking about, the ex used to think our boy would learn to tie his shoelaces by osmosis, and would get really upset when I insisted the kid pay attention while I taught him - then she wondered why, 5 years later, he still couldn't tie his shoelaces - and that would be, because what we have here is a failure to communicate...

The point here is that we're trying to exchange ideas, and taking the chance (jesus H. Christ) that some may hurt our feelings (I will be damned if I can understand that, talking is about PREVENTING problems) so neither Ciara nor any other provider nor person should be "bugged".   (OK, I will make an exception for the folks with single digit IQs who, eg, change the subject to announce that people who change the subject are traitors....)


-- Modified on 11/16/2005 1:24:32 PM

but not a lot?  

Does that mean you have to be invited?

Or that you'll cut his hobbying allowance if he misbehaves?

Or just that you like Oprah?

My comments about my wifes becoming more interested about our finances were just venting. She has never had an interest or really the knack for managing our finances. Now she wants to question everything and it is annoying as 99% of what she sees in our bank and CC statements is just normal stuff but if she doesnt recognize a payee or a name in the check book I get a call with "What is this?" and it is done in a suspicious way. But the bottom line is she needs to have a better understanding about this in case something does happen to me or to us and she is on her own. It is just bad timing....

As for the hobbying I posted a message to a thread started by 40-watt several months ago under the alias 'what-me-worry' where I recounted how my wife's medical issues (female) have kept us from having sex for nearly 3 years. So I started in this hobby. Some people commented that set aside money, hard to do with a joint checking account and both paychecks directo deposited. I have no other source of cash except maybe to rob a bank. Other say 'well you were stoopid to get married!' which is maybe a true statement but has produced 2 lovely daughters that are the light of my life and the main reason we are still together.

So I limp along like many others on this board, finding sexual fullfillment where I can while maintaining the obligations and duties that society expects of us.

BTW = I still HATE OPRAH!!!!

people often raise issues that get a life of their own, because they affect a lot of people.

Yeah, I think Oprah's sorta sad, too.  Sheesh, this is what her audience aspires to?

In my experience, women in general are a lot more assertive then the men I meet, whether it is at work, at home or socially.  I am not putting them down for it and in fact i appreciate someone who sticks up for what they believe over others who say anything to get along or avoid conflict.  Being more like the latter, I find that I am improved by being around women more than men.

Sometimes I think that the non-assertive women is a myth of sorts, designed for what reason, I don't know.

I no eye did ane now  ei am ok....     ei feel feyene -

they'd be self-financing and make a fucking fortune just by adding 'service with a smile'.

hate your ex wife. I think it could be time for you to regain your independence and strength and stop speaking for 'all women.'  Some women, like men, think entirely different from the next woman/generation.  I certainly respect men's opinions, but yes I may ocassionally joke about their neanderthal qualities. Wink! There will always be difference of opinion between men and women. Perhaps that's where we gather our strengths (and weaknesses). However, I do agree with "freedom of speech" but one can be a bit more eloquent about it.

Hugs,
Ciara

Yes, women (still a minority -- remember) have years of making up to do. However, in the corporate world I see many women who are managers and know how to task assignments out wonderfully. There are always exceptions to this rule, as well as men too. Better to think clearly before speaking. But then I usually try to see both sides before speaking. It's far more interesting that way. Wink!

Hugs,
Ciara

because I am sure that not all men can keep it physical.  In certain circumstances with certain people, it can always go way above provider/hobbyist.  If you open yourself up to those opportunities...  Before escorting myself, I would be okay with it due to my preconceived notions.  Not now.

As far as money for hobbies, going out, etc., I am all for it!  I want money for my hobbies, going out with friends, and all that.  It's only fair.  Plus, it would get him out of my hair from time to time.

Kate

(1) Don't confuse factual description with hatred - that's manipulative.  In this particular case, she schlepped us out to a child shrink who said that Ritalin would solve the boys problems, and we "don't need to worry, because kids learn these things by themselves" (we were talking about arithmetic, but tying shoes was also an issue).   I said I had my doubts.

5 years later, it was quite clear that kids DON'T learn all by themselves, and that was one conflict between us - she's a very faithful person, who continues to believe long after her belief doesn't work.  Yeah, she pulled the same stuff "you hate me because you disagree with me" (even where the kids' education is at stake) and frankly, I've seen other women do the same stuff, but never a man.  Because people LAUGH at silly men - they don't laugh at silly women because, well, we think they can't take it.  Of course they can take it; but they like to manipulate us, and we let them.  We should turn them over a knee instead [eg].

Talking about what is right and wrong, mistaken or not, is NOT hatred - but yes, lots of shrinks will tell you that you musn't disagree, because that hurts the kids, and so what usually happens is that you wind up doing what the most ignorant of the 2 of you insists on - because, of course, her feelings will be hurt if you don't.

Here's the result:  the teenage old girl called me up one night and said her mother had locked her out of the house, could she live with me?  

Since that day, I have been trying to reconcile the 2 of them, because no girl needs issues with her mother.  But I wind up being manipulated, and since the mom is the adult, she's the one I hold responsible.  

Hate her?  No way.  She's the mother of my 3 great kids, and I'll never let go of that.  That doesn't mean I buy into her act.

Some people that I DO think are unethical are (a) her lawyer who spent 6 months and $40K wrangling over $15K, only to lose her ass, 4 counts to zero; (b) the dozen shrinks that didn't listen to her, filled her head full of BS and then dumped her, each leaving her more hysterical than before.   Oh, and facilitated her lies, eg that she never called suicide hotlines.  One of them interrupted me at my office and we went looking for her...that is an example of the reason I don't have a lot of respect for shrinks - never saw one who could keep their story straight for an hour.

(2)  People are of course all individuals, but there are plenty of statistically valid & proven stereotypes.   EG, you open the last page of a magazine, and see ads of bikini girls:  is the magazine Car & Driver, or Vogue?  What if the ads are for psychics?  Does the answer change?

Now, only Oprah (and her media companions) are really and truly serious about stereotypes.  She and the Great Karnak are the only people in the world who know the answer before they know the question - there are behavior patterns that can be generalized.  

(3)  "Eloquence" means you want me to sugar-coat it.  I'm an expert at that, but that's flirtation, and usually it's more important to call a spade a shovel, ie, close enough for honesty.   It's important to not waste time dealing with things, and this sugar-coat business is manipulation.   I'll be diplomatic when we're playing footsie - but don't EVER insist on knowing if something makes your butt look fat, because I'm not going to lie to you, and you may not like the answer.

Ciara, I cannot imagine that your senior NCOs put up with women whose feelings were getting hurt.  I dunno, I was never in the Army, and when I was in, the Marines left women behind when they went to war, and for many good reasons.  So I dunno, I never had to deal with it.  In garrison, I treated the women like the men, ie, no BS - anybody could take their hurt-ass feelings outside, because I just won't give a damn.

this isn't about making up or anything (we can talk about that later).

Women and men have different behavior patterns, including their perspectives.   Some of that is easily changed, especially short term; others are not.

What you are talking about is that, culturally, women are less used to working in the usual commercial context.  Somewhat true - it's also IMHO stupid to characterize that as being "down" given that - who cares who makes the money when they wind up giving a chunk of it to the SO for whatever reason??

What I'm talking about is that there is an entire cultural context largely and sometimes indirectly defined by biology - those people who have children, bleed monthly, etc, will and do have collectively and stereotypically different views AND behavior patterns than those who fight over them.

In the short term, anything can be changed, by conscious action.  My question would be, is this always wise?  Why not relax and enjoy?  Do you really think you're being mistreated when somebody disagrees with you?

In most contexts, competence depends on specific knowledge or experience.  That can vary widely, and sometimes it's affected by gender history.  So what?   How much does knowledge change your hormones?

Women are NOT a minority.  Women are the MAJORITY.  (check census reports.)  There are simply different roles, and those roles may change with context.  

Like Lenny Bruce said, "Men are like dogs:  you beat them and beat them, and they still keep coming back for more.  Women are like cats: one word, and pfft!  they're gone."  (Actually, I've known a couple women I couldn't lose.)

Now, if Lenny Bruce can generalize, so can I.  I'm one hell of a lot more sober than he ever was.

Making up is gonna cost you - starting with, ummm,  (tapping foot) lemme think - how about I peel your clothes off, one at a time, and inspect you VERY closely??

and of course context is important.   Depends on who's asserting what, in what situation.  Men are usually more loudmouthed, I suspect...as for "sticking up for what you believe" I think women are much more likely to go along to get along, for many reasons, not necessarily bad, just is...

YEs, I agree that there are media outlets that perpetuate stereotypes, and I'd put Oprah as one of the top 10.

I find it curious that you talk about being "improved" by being around women, because that implies significant judgments about what's good and bad - where I'd be more inclined to say, well, what it is, that it is.  IMHO, that's like saying, yin good, yang bad, when the question is, well, off-kilter.

You've got me all reved up. Wink!  Actually, I have no idea what you're responding to but that's okay. I guess you need to vent. Are you menstruating, honey?  Oh, sorry, I forgot men don't have periods just those nasty mid-life things with Porches (I hope) and bashing women who have hurt them. Whine, whine, whine. I'll give you a better wine, my dear. Just come over here and I'll . . . oops! Getting carried away now. See what you've done to me. I'm all wet now. Wink!

Hugs,
Ciara

thing, buddy, about my personal life and I am not like you who puts it out there and then expects not to be heard.  I was an excellent NCO and would have been a warrant officer in flight if not for a bad parashooting accident, you idiot!  I did go to war, asshole!

Ducatis.  You can really get hurt on one a' those.

Hey, you're the excited one.  I'm analytical....

So then why are you (1) making the same assumptions about me (1st), and (2) losing your temper about it?

Not good signs, C...

If you expect to bash someone (and then say you're not bashing him/her)and then try to use clever words against people, especially women, then expect to get something in return. This is my last reponse to you. It's not worth it, and I didn't lose my temper -- just exercising my right (as you have in so many hate responses to other people too). How's it feel?  Sorry, but that's the truth. Now, come over here for a decent spanking. Wink!

Hugs,
Ciara

If I were in a relationship now, I wouldn't want to know what he's doing on the side, unless it affected me severely financially or medically. Some things are better left unsaid. I thought I'd never say that before becoming an escort. I still believe in honesty, but I think the majority of men (not all) will eventually cheat -- for one good reason or another (no offense guys).

Hugs,
Ciara