I wonder if the provider spends alot of time in a CR, always there where her "problem child" would have free access to her. A call can be directed to voice mail then returned or not. But if you put yourself out there in the room, you can't just blow him off, others, potential clients, would get an unfair impression of you. Just something else to think about.
I'll start this thread by saying that I am a compassionate and giving person. Unfortunately, the gentlemen that I see occasionally take advange of my kind nature which leaves me emotionally drained, distant, and bitter.
My question for all of the gentleman (and ladies) out there is, at what point should you cease to continue seeing a client?
When he tells you he loves you? When he begins to call and text hourly throughout the day? When he expresses jealousy over other client's reviews? When he becomes angry that I need to answer another phone call or I am booked? When he starts expecting to spend time off the clock time together?
Has any lady had to initiate the, "I need more space" conversation? or "I cant see you any longer." or "Its not you, its me."
For the gentlemen, do you expect a paid companion to fulfill your needs for romantic love, admiration, support, psychological therapy, etc?
It seems to me that the best way for a companion to avoid messy situations is by sticking with business. Meaning, no discounts, no overstaying your time, letting the personal phone calls go to voicemail, setting boundaries, and promptly ending client relationships that shows the warning signs. Yet, a companion's appeal is often that she is kind, personable, and compassionate, so I feel like Im damned if I do, damned if I dont.
Thoughts?
In rare circumstances there's nothing wrong with a little extra time, discounts, or a meal off the clock. This only works, however, if both parties recognize it for what it is. Easier said than done.
The situations you describe are WAY beyond that, and over the line. Ridiculously over the line. The males (biologically) you are dealing with are anything but "gentlemen" or even men. They're pretty much spineless, pathetic, whiny, loser, pussies (not biologically) that need more help than you could ever give them.
Cut these ass-bags off, immediately, and don't give it a second thought. It's not you...it is actually them. You'll feel better about things right away, and be surprised at how much better you are overall when you don't feel drained and bitter.
When a door shuts, a window opens to new opportunities. Slam the door on the losers and see what the window holds for you.
Just sayin'
I would agree 100% with the first response. That is just getting obsessive and overly jealous over a girl he isn't even with,maybe in his mind he is though, which is bad. If what they are asking for and doing is unwanted behavior its time to cut them off. FYI there is also things a provider may do unintentionally to confuse the guy. there are fine lines on both sides of this situation, sometimes lines are crossed without being aware of it. but its time to cut off the guys who are the way you say they are.
Its not always so obvious the mini-liason. Some teddy bears are very personable and wants you to be "their friend." Others are very discreet, so much so that there is barely a word that slips out their lips. And if you are not friendly, they think you are to technical and business oriented. And if you are too friendly they(some of them) might take it as an invitation in your private life.
I use my instincts and basic insticts to handle each case separately.
Man always fall with courtesans...
My question for all of the gentleman (and ladies) out there is, at what point should you cease to continue seeing a client?
When he tells you he loves you? When he begins to call and text hourly throughout the day? When he expresses jealousy over other client's reviews? When he becomes angry that I need to answer another phone call or I am booked? When he starts expecting to spend time off the clock time together?
Has any lady had to initiate the, "I need more space" conversation? or "I cant see you any longer." or "Its not you, its me."
For the gentlemen, do you expect a paid companion to fulfill your needs for romantic love, admiration, support, psychological therapy, etc?
It seems to me that the best way for a companion to avoid messy situations is by sticking with business. Meaning, no discounts, no overstaying your time, letting the personal phone calls go to voicemail, setting boundaries, and promptly ending client relationships that shows the warning signs. Yet, a companion's appeal is often that she is kind, personable, and compassionate, so I feel like Im damned if I do, damned if I dont.
Thoughts?
Use your women's intuition (which, by the way, my mother always told me is "never wrong") on a case-by-case basis to discern whether or not a hobbyist is confusing the fantasy you're creating for him, with reality.
You're right, a large part of a provider's appeal is her kindness and desire to please. But there are some men out there, in both the hobbying and civie worlds, that will take a mile if you give an inch. When your intuition tells you that you've run into one of these characters, politely cut them off, and move on, guilt-free.
As for your clients who are able to indulge in the fantasy while staying grounded in reality--and you'll know who they are--there's nothing wrong with making some special considerations for them (the discounts and complimentary overtime you mentioned), if you feel so inclined.
Good Luck,
MattClark
Thank you. This is spot on. As a matter of fact, I will print it out and tape it to my bathroom mirror. I appreciate your wisdom.
Matt
As MattClark stated, "discern whether or not a hobbyist is confusing the fantasy you're creating for him, with reality"....
Now, THAT is the basis for laying the boundaries of providing. And, be sure in your mind what your boundaries are, sticking to them.
I've used these words with a couple of clients who get a bit confused about reality..
"You are married, plain and simple. We would not be spending time together-would not have even met, if it were not for this "hobby". So, let's just enjoy this time together, because it's this or nothing for you and I...it's your choice".
Good luck, and I'd find a few new clients!
This is spot on Sir. Chemistry with a provider is a wonderful aspect of the choices in the hobby. If you do in fact really click together, share great conversations, laughter, and have mutually satisfying sessions... a night out off the clock to just relax and enjoy a great meal or concert as 'confidants' should be doable if there is obvious healthy perspective and a level off intellect that promotes a feeling of safety with the client. If the client gives you even a glimmer of the whim whams... a firm 'I never date outside of my studio' should clearly communicate your position. If you have to say it a second time... following it up with 'Scooter... you are a great client... but I will not address this with you again... I never date outside my studio.' If he returns again and brings it up, smile, excuse yourself and say NOTHING. He is now cut off. After that it's restraining order time!
Best of luck... and how about dinner? C'mon c'mon pretty please! Sorry I could not resist.
My question for all of the gentleman (and ladies) out there is, at what point should you cease to continue seeing a client?
When he tells you he loves you? When he begins to call and text hourly throughout the day? When he expresses jealousy over other client's reviews? When he becomes angry that I need to answer another phone call or I am booked? When he starts expecting to spend time off the clock time together?
Has any lady had to initiate the, "I need more space" conversation? or "I cant see you any longer." or "Its not you, its me."
For the gentlemen, do you expect a paid companion to fulfill your needs for romantic love, admiration, support, psychological therapy, etc?
It seems to me that the best way for a companion to avoid messy situations is by sticking with business. Meaning, no discounts, no overstaying your time, letting the personal phone calls go to voicemail, setting boundaries, and promptly ending client relationships that shows the warning signs. Yet, a companion's appeal is often that she is kind, personable, and compassionate, so I feel like Im damned if I do, damned if I dont.
Thoughts?
Use your women's intuition (which, by the way, my mother always told me is "never wrong") on a case-by-case basis to discern whether or not a hobbyist is confusing the fantasy you're creating for him, with reality.
You're right, a large part of a provider's appeal is her kindness and desire to please. But there are some men out there, in both the hobbying and civie worlds, that will take a mile if you give an inch. When your intuition tells you that you've run into one of these characters, politely cut them off, and move on, guilt-free.
As for your clients who are able to indulge in the fantasy while staying grounded in reality--and you'll know who they are--there's nothing wrong with making some special considerations for them (the discounts and complimentary overtime you mentioned), if you feel so inclined.
Good Luck,
MattClark
when they start looking like this !
Hoobyist/stalker/losers have to realize that providers aren't girlfriends !
LOL!!! That glazed over look is eerily familiar!!!
From 'Catcher in the Rye'
"Perhaps the safest thing we can say about Holden is that he was born in the world not just strongly attracted to beauty but, almost, hopelessly impaled on it."
Sounds like it applies to Chapman, and Honest's clients in question.
'Catcher in the Rye' great book for sure and quote. I love these perspectives... very interesting. The 'eye candy' factor can also rot your teeth and the brain if left untreated. Sounds as if the client has simply lost perspective of the professional relationship. Straight talk always works. 'Impaled' in the quote is a wonderful reality of hobbying, stunning beauty is primary motivator for many, including myself to meet and engage. Encourage him to seek out others and enjoy them too. Variety is an integral aspect of the lifestyle and personal choice of both client and... provider.
"Perhaps the safest thing we can say about Holden is that he was born in the world not just strongly attracted to beauty but, almost, hopelessly impaled on it."
Sounds like it applies to Chapman, and Honest's clients in question.
And it's not fun. Sorry you're dealing with this.
Best advice I can give is to have a straight talk with him about respecting boundaries - just because he may be a regular or 'ATF' does not give him the right to be rude and intrusive. Let him know if he continues on this path then you'll need to cut him off, which you desperately don't want to do but will if forced. Likely, he'll be defensive for a bit, pout for a bit and will gradually stop seeing you .... IF you stick to your boundaries. He'll likely say it's because it doesn't feel "real" anymore or that he thought you honestly liked him and he'll try to spin it into his being a victim and you leading him on emotionally. Well, there's probably a smidge of truth to the "leading on" statement, but probably not more than falls under your job description (GFE anyone?). Just because he chose to ignore what the "E" meant and focused only on the "GF" isn't your problem.
I had one of these a few years ago and let me tell you, giving up his *significant* contribution to my finances was tough, but the emotional hassle that dropped away when I fired him made it sooo worthwhile. It's a sad thing when a man's BS outweighs the financial equivalent of a buying a new car each month. You'd think it would send the signal that he should look in a mirror...
Totally! When I am on the clock, I am able to put on the "ultimate companion" hat, do cartwheels and jump through hoops, all with a smile on my face. But when guys call all day to talk about how much they love you, it really does get draining. I am not "a provider" when Im home in my pajamas eating icecream. Im myself and the phone calls force me to be "on" when Im actually off. Its just too much and too intrusive.
For the guys reading this who are guilty of crossing the line, please step back and give the provider a little more space, when shes off the clock. It could save your relationship and keep her from getting bitter and overwhelmed by you.
Edrienne, I absolutely agree that it is worth it to take the pay cut by letting certain guys go. Your sanity and happiness are priceless. The income can always be made up by others.
Too often you hear about clients who take advantage but the providers won't say anything, hoping the clients will eventually realize what they're doing wrong themselves. This is stupid. It's nice when you meet someone you can connect with. But in the end it's business. If you are uncomfortable, be honest and straighforward with the guy.
Best to draw the line clearly, and get your personal needs from civie relationships.
you have summed up a situation that happens quite frequently......and is a pain!!! I am a single male that does get emotionally attached to women....whether you're a provider or not...... so, as far as providers are concerned....I show compassion and, more importantly, restraint. I had a provider once become too emotionally attached to me and I her......and it wasn't a good thing. Live and learn!!!
HP, a rule that has always worked for me in business is simply this. If this guy is a great customer and you still find yourself at the point where you are seriously asking if it is worth it, you are way past the point when you should have fired him. Because you like the money, and the sex probably is not unpleasant, and you really would like to continue, so you are biased to stick with it unless there is an overwhelming reason to end it. By asking this question, you already are saying it needs to end. The only question here is do you just want to fire him today, or gradually cut him off? And the answer to that may either depend on how gentle you want to be (which would be wrong, IMO, but what do I know?) or how quickly you can replace his money. Me, I would take that free time I was giving him and focus it on finding some new clients. He will sulk and start to pull away, and you will be replacing him. Sounds perfect. I would suggest some things to say to him when he asks and whines about this transition, but the ladies here have made some excellent suggestions, and I do not have anything to add.
Call me cold blooded.
The GFE experience is, when done well, completely confusing emotionally. It crosses or blurs so many lines of intimacy, sexuality and emotions. I fall in love with most of the providers I see while I am with them, and the glow lasts for a few days afterward in a lot of cases. And aside from the passion and infatuation, I actually like some of them, we seem to share some common interests outside the bedroom. I suspect that if I let myself go and went back later that same week, or just tried to stay in close, friendly communication, that glow would last, and then who knows how it would turn out. But I do not, it passes and then I fall in love with the next lady I see.
I know it is different for different people, and an adult, secure, independent guy can love a provider, sugar baby, or mistress in such a way that it works fine for everyone, but in my world if I saw a provider more than once a month and was in touch multiple times during each week, I am pretty sure my need, and, sure, love, for her would be quite real, so I just don't. That may make me a less desirable client (or maybe not?), but it definitely makes me a less emotionally confused guy.
Good luck HP.
Zig
"The GFE experience is, when done well, completely confusing emotionally. It crosses or blurs so many lines of intimacy, sexuality and emotions. I fall in love with most of the providers I see while I am with them, and the glow lasts for a few days afterward in a lot of cases. And aside from the passion and infatuation, I actually like some of them, we seem to share some common interests outside the bedroom. I suspect that if I let myself go and went back later that same week, or just tried to stay in close, friendly communication, that glow would last, and then who knows how it would turn out. But I do not, it passes and then I fall in love with the next lady I see."
Well said--my experiences have been nearly identical.
for romance in the hobby if I provider expresses such feeling I stop seeing her..as I general rule I prefer not to see providers more than 2-3 times to avoid such problems
You cannot generalize this event for everyone. So continue to be compassionate and giving to all clients, but you need to cut of this particular client if he is behaving in ways you don't like. Now, it depends if his money is worth more to you. If you can live without his donation, then cut him off.
I recently paid my ATF for an hour and a half and even gave her two advances via paypal and moneypak, because she needed some money before we met. She kinda rushed me during the session and we were done in less than 1 hour. I immediately emailed her that if she wasn't enjoying my company, we'd be better have a time-out. I was frank with her about her suddenly cutting our session time, and if there was a problem - I'd rather not continue to see her even though I enjoy her company. I'm very generous and giving to my ATF for the last 5 months, but people change and relationships reach a boundary at some point.
-- Modified on 11/23/2010 10:03:50 AM
An unhappy client with low self esteem is one thing, but possessiveness/jealousy is a red flag that you are dealing with a controlling, unstable client.
This post makes me glad I'm not a provider.
I'd say never, ever go over on time. That seems to be the #1 she-really-likes-me signal.
In general most human beings are needy. This condition arises from many factors. First and foremost, those who don't know who they are and what they stand for seem to have several issues in life. It is exasperated by the pillar to post modern day life style which makes chase things even when we don't know what and why are chasing what we are chasing.
Everyone needs to take some personal time, reflect and think things over. On the other hand some people don't get it and never will get it due to false sense of pride, cockiness, have to win at all cost, me first attitudes.
My question for all of the gentleman (and ladies) out there is, at what point should you cease to continue seeing a client?
When he tells you he loves you? When he begins to call and text hourly throughout the day? When he expresses jealousy over other client's reviews? When he becomes angry that I need to answer another phone call or I am booked? When he starts expecting to spend time off the clock time together?
Has any lady had to initiate the, "I need more space" conversation? or "I cant see you any longer." or "Its not you, its me."
For the gentlemen, do you expect a paid companion to fulfill your needs for romantic love, admiration, support, psychological therapy, etc?
It seems to me that the best way for a companion to avoid messy situations is by sticking with business. Meaning, no discounts, no overstaying your time, letting the personal phone calls go to voicemail, setting boundaries, and promptly ending client relationships that shows the warning signs. Yet, a companion's appeal is often that she is kind, personable, and compassionate, so I feel like Im damned if I do, damned if I dont.
Thoughts?
it's hormonal... designed to protect the young from the saber toothed tigers...
Serial meetings with a civie or provder increases this risk. Yes, I "fall for" my current flame & I do rotate my Favorites to keep some balance in my head. At the end of the day, I KNOW GFE is an illusion. Unfortunately any client who loses sight of this will have to be denied future meetings.
This is not to say that romance can not happen between clients & providers... it has happened... & rarely is successful... in fact so rare as to be exceptional. Romance must be mutually agreed on & even if one has these feelings... broaching them with a provider risks her denial of privledges in the future.
If a client crosses the line... it is up to the professional... the provider... to set him straight.
skb
Just a guess but...
Sometimes there is less a pleading for attention than a demanding of attention. You may be dealing with a narcicistic free-spending regular on a power trip. With his regular visits, generous tips and lavish gifts he comes to feel entitled to your time and attention off the clock. Occasional dinners and other activities are expected. If the session doesn't run at least an hour over time, he will feel cheated. He may even be a pleasure to deal with in the bedroom, and you may worry about risking the loss of a significant fraction of your income. So you try to set boundaries and restrictions to keep him manageable. He may agree to the boundaries, but before you know it, he is up to his old power trips and boundary stretching in no time. Maybe he has even gotten on your last nerve a time or two and you have cut him loose. Yet here is is, back on your schedule a few weeks later. He did not get there by himself.
By posting your questions you seem to be looking for the support you need to cut a guy off for good. Most of the replies seem to support you. In the end, are you really willing to give up the good he brings because of the bad stuff he will always bring no matter what you do to try to control him? At some point, he will become too much and you will do what you have to.
...and stick to them, no matter what. we (providers) are all unique, hence what we are and are not willing to provide will be unique. you have to learn what it is you are comfortable providing, and stay within those parameters.
some of the behavior you describe from this particular client is definitely crossing any line of propriety or respect, and i think you knew before you ever posted here the best way to handle that particular situation from this point. however "business only" is not the answer for everyone. in fact, emotionally, i admit that i'm not really equipped to handle a strictly business relationship with my clients. beyond that, i hope to meet the emotional needs of my clients just as much as their physical needs. so i would hate to have a client who only contacted me when they wished to set a date, or who wasn't comfortable being themselves with me...meaning, expressing themselves in an upfront and honest manner. but then, i don't try to provide a fantasy. i'd be no good at it, lol.
of course, i too have had to deal with someone becoming overly attached. in fact this may even be somewhat more likely with my clients, given the nature of the relationship i encourage (sincerely getting to know them, welcoming calls just to chat, etc.). what saves me most times is the fact that i am married, and happily so, and am VERY open about this with anyone i see. so even if sometimes feelings get a bit carried away, behavior is kept in check because they know that i belong to someone else. perhaps it wouldn't hurt for you to present yourself as taken?...it may not be "Honest," but you may be surprised at just how much it helps to keep boundaries in place.
still there have been a few occasions where i had to either cease seeing someone altogether, or dramatically change the dynamics of the relationship with an individual due to the "L" word. one of my favorite clients, who i also consider to be a very dear friend, cannot see me more than once every 2 months. i set this limit because he was actually being negatively effected by his feelings for me...he was overwhelmed with guilt. now the relationship is much healthier for us both. with others, i have terminated the professional relationship and continued a platonic "paper-free" friendship. without sex clouding the picture their heads clear and we are able to still enjoy each other in a healthy way. only once did i have to stop seeing someone altogether for this reason, and that was because they crossed a major boundary (showed up unannounced).
so again, it's all about your own personal boundaries and comfort level. also remember there is a tremendous difference between neediness and lack of respect.
Sometimes the seduction that turns a man into a regular goes awry.
When that happens, you have to deal with the consequences in whatever way works.
Hopefully, in the aftermath, he will have learned something as well.
I wonder if the provider spends alot of time in a CR, always there where her "problem child" would have free access to her. A call can be directed to voice mail then returned or not. But if you put yourself out there in the room, you can't just blow him off, others, potential clients, would get an unfair impression of you. Just something else to think about.
Sorry, to break the news to you but simply be cold about it and cut him off. If you continue to see him as a client, it will always give him hope that you will give in one day. The only way to end this problem is to make a clean break. Dont answer his phone calls, e-mails, PMs, etc. I hope that you did not give this dude your personal info like real name, personal number, and address. If so then you may have to call him and tell him that you are sorry but you can no longer communicate with him PERIOD.
I have been guilty of taking the hobbyist/provider out of context in the past. It is very difficult to be so intimate with a person over and over without turning a fuck into a mind-fuck. It is just human nature. However, sometimes it is very difficult but one has to listen to cooler heads and sever ties before things turn ugly.
I am assuming that you may care about him as a person and dont want to hurt him or his feelings. If so then you know what you have to do. Trust me on this but if he tells you that he loves you, calls over and over and is constantly thinking about you then it is not love, its obsession. Even if you were to stop providing and see him exclusively as your BF, I guarentee you that he will make life very uncomfortable for you. You will wind up either scared of him or hating him.
Do yourself a favor and look at this from a business standpoint. You may have gone above and beyond the GFE stanndard but the client got out of hand. In his defense, you may have done your job a little too well and fed his emotions. Nontheless, regardless who is to blame you know what needs to be done.
This is best to handle before it becomes taxing on you. Sometimes gentlemen do get attached and don't always realize that it isn't okay to call or text throughout the day. There are gentlemen that will want to email you or talk to you throughout the day and linger on your every word and it can be so consuming that it is nearly suffocating. The best thing to do is to politely but firmly set clear boundaries with them. Do not allow them to overstay their time, tell them you cannot chit chat unless it is important (i.e. meeting related etc) and that you need to have your private time respected. It is important that they value your private time as much as the time they spend with you by not trying to monopolize it. If a man is showing any red flags such as jealousy over reviews, the non stop calls, asking for discounts, wanting to overstay his time etc then you will want to politely tell him that you need him to respect your boundaries and cut him loose. Many ladies are either conveniently booked, or let the call go to voice mail. I usually will try to be polite when I can but if they are a serious boundary crosser then I will avoid them at all costs. I had one that wanted to gossip something terrible about everyone and I had to block him from my phone because he just wouldn't take the hint. You perform a very personal service and in order to do that you need to be clear headed and as stress free as possible or it will affect your work. Take care of yourself because not all money is good money and you will be happier in the long run.
XoXo,
Savanah
It seems the very best providers are those who create the atmosphere of an intense, exciting, fullfilling relationship when she and her client are together. Unfortunately, the lines between fantasy and reality can easily become blurred. I genuinely like my ATF. I appreciate everything she does for me and I miss not seeing her when circumstances prohiibit it. I've told her that while I fully understand the inherent nature of our association, there is an emotional component to our interaction that keeps me coming back. I am also very careful not to do any of the things you've described in your narrative.
If the guy makes you feel uncomfortable or you perceive an unwanted attachment developing; tell him that while you enjoy his company, this is your business and you have other clients. If he cannot handle that constructively, you may have to terminate the provider-client relationship.
Well my love you must really be something. Maybe if this is a recurring issue you should stop being so damn good. Either that or make them start doing chores around your place. Hand them a list on their way in, in no time they will beat feet for the bar....LOL.
In all sincerity if this stuff is happening frequently you should maybe look at how you are marketing yourself. You must be putting the bait out that needy men respond to. I do not think that most of us are looking to become obsessive, get laid and blown and have fun ? yes. Become a creep ? No.
Just an Old Fat Fuck voicing an opinion.
So much information in these posts and different perspectives that will hopefully help HP finally make her decision.
I had to put it in perspective for one of my clients recently. He was a once a week 90 minute regular for 2 years. Just seemed like he couldn't have enough if me in the time we spent together (calls, e-mails, saying did you get my message, texts saying I sent you an e-mail and on and on). I know I am a Unique, and I LOVE what I do so I can see where it gets confusing. I just tell them "the romance stays in the studio...unless you are prepared to put a rock on my finger, pay off my bills and put up with PMS...I'll see you next week!"
We are all adults here and I hope if these are truly ATF's, they will understand when you communicate your concerns. After all, they just want to make us happy don't they?
Good luck! Let us know how it turns out....if you can.
xo
Tysan
To answer your question regarding what you should do, you should do what is comfortable for YOU. Period. If a customer calls me twice in the same day, he's on the shit list. AAs far as what I look for in a companion - sometimes I look for romance, sometimes for recreation, and sometimes for Urban Perversions 6. By doing a little research, I can usually line up the right lady for the right feeling. And if I don't, I adjust, and have a great time anyway. But no matter whether it's lovey, a workout, or video-worthy, when it's over, it's over! You make acquaintances, and perhaps friends, but for a guy to expect anything outside of time is silly, and self-destructive.