TER General Board

Can this world of P4P be a way to gain self-awareness?
madiba51 1417 reads
posted
1 / 42

I think that it can.

First, I think that self-awareness is one of the goals of a life that is well-lived.  People with true self-awareness are not a mystery to themselves.  They are "comfortable in their own skin", and enjoy life more. They have an accurate understanding of their strengths and weaknesses, and they accept themselves. Therapists often refer to people with good self-awareness as having "insight".  

The examples below only apply to some providers and clients, far less than the majority, so chances are they do not apply to you personally.

When a man pays a woman for sex, he can ask himself why he is doing it, and can try to answer himself honestly. Sometimes I hear people in the P4P world talk about men "thinking with the little head" instead of "thinking with the big head". But a man is never really thinking with his cock - he is thinking with his big head, but in a different way. He might be thinking impulsively, wanting to have a short term gain, but at the cost of a longer term expense. If he regrets those impulsive decisions, he might try to understand his impulsiveness, and work on ways to be less subject to it - for example, by understanding what triggers his impulsive decisions, and finding other ways of dealing with the triggers.

If his decisions are not something he comes to regret, then I say go for it!

If a man pays women for sex because he seeks acceptance from them, he might think about ways to increase his own self-acceptance. A lot of times when I talk with people about learning to be more realistic about themselves, they seem to assume that I mean they should have a more negative view of themselves and their future, but it is almost always the opposite!  A more realistic view of themselves would be a more positive view of themselves. FUT can make people have unrealistically negative views of themselves, but recognizing FUT for what it is when it happens can stop this way of thinking before it gets started. I recommend learning about all the different forms of FUT.

When a woman has sex with men for money, she can ask herself why she is doing it, and try to answer herself honestly.  Perhaps the reason is because it provides a good living with a flexible schedule and a great deal of independence. And so that is that, end of story.

But, in one individual case, I think a woman showed a high degree of self-awareness and insight when she said to me "when a person is sexualized at an early age, it puts their sexuality front and center for them". For this individual, the next step in gaining self-awareness and a more realistic view of herself might be to understand that the experience of being sexualized at an early age is an unusual experience, and that her beliefs about herself that resulted from that experience might not be realistic views.

For example, this one individual might place an unhelpfully high emphasis on her sexual worth, and an unrealistically low emphasis on other aspects of her worth as a person  She might benefit from challenging some of her beliefs about herself.

Like I said, the examples above only apply to some providers and clients, far less than the majority, so chances are they do not apply to you. But you might have your own examples of what you have learned about yourself, and what you have done with that knowledge.

Anyhow, I think that the world of P4P gives us a lot of opportunities to gain self-awareness and to learn to get what you want out of life. Here's to living life to the fullest!

mattradd 40 Reviews 419 reads
posted
2 / 42

"The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions." Leonardo da Vinci

That includes the belief that they, or you, have the level of self-awareness you believe you have.

Smarty1101 61 Reviews 422 reads
posted
3 / 42

"If he regrets those impulsive decisions, he might try to understand his impulsiveness, and work on ways to be less subject to it - for example, by understanding what triggers his impulsive decisions, and finding other ways of dealing with the triggers."

I boiled it down to this:
"Trigger": I get horny as hell sometimes

"Ways of Dealing": I get a date for P4P or beat off, so I opt for Curtain #1 a provider. Much more fun and a lot less work. lol

madiba51 312 reads
posted
4 / 42

But I'm working on it. Seems like a worthwhile thing to do.

SolaLove See my TER Reviews 324 reads
posted
6 / 42

Friends you adore?  There's something to learn about what delights and inspires you.  Those you dislike?  You are often seeing a mirror of your own shadow that causes you discomfort, you may gain greater clarity of what your own value system is, etc.  Watching a tree grow, patience.  The birds and the bees...

Even pumping your gas at the station is an opportunity to reflect on how and why and the value that we place on this earth's natural resources.

Yes, P4play can be a place to gain self-awareness too.

guy69696969 2 Reviews 347 reads
posted
7 / 42

I think pursuing the very concept is rife with self delusion..... ya see the very definition exists in an idealistic vacuum. On the other hand life and its experiences are too random and fluid for such a perfect state to exist. Call it a psychological Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

Situational awareness is far more useful. I usually keep my mouth shut about this crap but folks talk so much about lines and boundaries its rather obvious that human nature still rules the day and they get crossed and ignored all the time.

Embrace chaos. ;)

Priapus53 313 reads
posted
8 / 42

all kidding aside, in those rare instances where an "ATF" situation occurs between hobbyist & provider, the potential exists for increased self esteem from both parties.

madiba51 357 reads
posted
9 / 42

For me personally, leading people on climbs for more than 25 years has been a path to self-awaress for both me and them.

My friend Stacy Allison, the first American woman to climb Everest, put it well: "One thing that climbing does is that it forces you to come face to face with yourself, to be honest with yourself. There are no facades when you get in a stressful situation in the mountains. You can't hide your true self, there's no way your teammates can hide their true selves, and I find that incredibly interesting".

madiba51 250 reads
posted
10 / 42

But the randomness can be an opportunity to learn resilience.

On "situational awareness", a big part of that is the skill of accurately understanding the emotional state of the people you are interacting with.   But understanding your own emotional state is also an important part of the picture.

Being "in the moment", which is also a type of "situational awareness", is also very healthy, and helps people avoid ruminating about the past and being unhelpfully anxious about the future.

mattradd 40 Reviews 305 reads
posted
11 / 42

I find I learn the most about myself through community, and a discipline that makes me stay in the moment. I'm not confident that I'm going to learn that much about myself in P4P, since often my partner is actively providing a fantasy, thus not providing an accurate mirroring to my behavior, in the moment. Exploring motives is a house of mirrors unless there is one to hold you accountable, and challenge your rationalizations, assumptions, and behavior.

johngaltnh 6 Reviews 350 reads
posted
12 / 42

Any experience in life gives us an opportunity to enhance our self-awareness, get in touch with our true motives, and cast away self-deception.

The hobby is a place where a person can become mired in infinite self-deception; or identify weaknesses and engage in self-overcoming.

But, I think there is a fine line between beneficial introspection and counterproductive navel-gazing.

yadayoda 598 reads
posted
13 / 42

I always hear guys talk about how they don't pay for sex. They pay for her to leave afterwards. Maybe that's true for the likes of a Charlie Sheen, but it doesn't hold water for the rest of us.

I pay for it because I get very horny and there aren't other options. If I could get a regular girl who looked like the girls I pay for (and sometimes even if they didn't look that good), I'd of course rather be with them. Who wouldn't prefer a woman who was doing is because they wanted us as much as way wanted them? As opposed to just being with us for the money?

Conversly, woman have sex for money because they want money and can't make as much of it doing anything else.

We should all just be honest with ourselves about that. And I don't think it takes some great sense of self awareness to do so.

GaGamblerssmarterbrother 302 reads
posted
14 / 42

Actully John summed it up pretty well with this statement

"But, I think there is a fine line between beneficial introspection and counterproductive navel-gazing."

I think after all the crap I give JohnGalt on a rather regular basis, he deserves a "well said" on this one. I honestly couldn't have said it better myself. I may have managed to say it a bit ruder, but not better in this case. lol

MarkusKetterman 150 Reviews 307 reads
posted
15 / 42

my attention on the present moment, that adjusts my headspace in a positive way. Much like holding and breathing into the edge of a challenging Asana, but quite a bit more fun...

Though I attempt to practice non-attachment, and succeed perhaps far more than I did in years gone by, I still find myself pulled to focus on the past and the future as opposed to the only reality that exists - the present moment - and I find my focus drifting at times onto conditioned reality as well - things that I cannot control and really have no meaning to my essential existence.

To me good, "connected" sex, even with someone I may never see again, is an "intentional moment".





madiba51 197 reads
posted
16 / 42

But it doesn't have to be on a climb - it can be in any situation.

Still worth it though.

guy69696969 2 Reviews 309 reads
posted
17 / 42

You wash your belly button!

johngaltnh 6 Reviews 269 reads
posted
18 / 42

I remember that post!

mattradd 40 Reviews 303 reads
posted
19 / 42
Cary Rose See my TER Reviews 255 reads
posted
20 / 42

It's a much more interesting view with lint in it. At least then you can contemplate the existence of the lint, where it came from, what it consists of, why it is there, who might have brought it to you, and on and on in endless delightful rumination. Who knows but that a new theory of enlightenment may come from the careful deliberation of lint? Stranger things have happened.

GaGamblerssmarterbrother 279 reads
posted
21 / 42

constitutes "gaining scary self awareness" you have more deep rooted problems than can be solved on an anonymous internet site.

It's only fucking, what can possibly be that fucking scary about NSA fucking. It the "strings attached" fucking that should be scary.

johngaltnh 6 Reviews 279 reads
posted
22 / 42

... for people who do not understand their own motivations.

Insight into one's own motivations can be problematic if it creates a cognitive dissonance with his ostensibly held values; and such dissonance will require either resolution through behavioral change or change of values; or a compartmentalized personality.

It could reasonably be argued that someone for whom this would be a problem might be better off in a different hobby; but it isn't the position of others to judge that.

GaGamblerssmarterbrother 280 reads
posted
23 / 42

Take his hobby and themselves, waay to fucking seriously. This is not some poetic journey of self discovery, this is fucking and sucking for money. Those of us that realize this enjoy the hobby with a lot less angst than those that don't.

mattradd 40 Reviews 246 reads
posted
24 / 42
channelguy 32 Reviews 338 reads
posted
25 / 42

that I can have sex with women that normally, when I approached them, would holler...POLICE!!!

johngaltnh 6 Reviews 228 reads
posted
26 / 42

The lint may have come from the floor, where mice have been. The mouse urine that permeated the dust might have contained hantavirus.

That close to the lint, as in doing a BJ, the viral particles could be inhaled, leading to hantavirus pulmonary syndrome. There is no treatment for HPS, which can result in death within 2 days of the onset of symptoms.

But if the virus were to mutate within the BJ giver and become airborn, it could potentially kill millions of people.

All because of belly button lint. ;-)

HalfHour 269 reads
posted
28 / 42

I couldn't read the entire OP, lost interest. But I like the question.
SELF DISCOVERY?
yes... but of a sexual nature.
I have several close WOMEN FRIENDS. We go out, dinner, dancing etc. Help each other out, etc...  I'd like to fuck them, but won't cuz I don't want to change the relationship.
I'm divorced, and am done with girlfriend bullshit till my teen daughter is grown and on her own.
If there was a way I could just have sex with a hot woman, when I wanted, with NSA...
Oh wait, there is!
that's all there is to it

Cary Rose See my TER Reviews 303 reads
posted
29 / 42

found some lint in the belly buttons of all three of those daughters. He hasn't been the same since.

Claudius42310 13 Reviews 351 reads
posted
30 / 42

as long as we aren't dead yet any experience can enhance our awareness _if_ we at least aim at awareness and understanding.

the only issue i have with self awareness is that it may be one sided and somewhat over rated. it is only inward looking. that is not _all_ of the world. it's only one side.

it is possible to be self aware in the sense of knowing why you do what you do and still be oblivious to what your effect might be on the rest of the world. your intentions can be fine but you may still cause havoc. "the road to hell is paved with....."

the compartmentalization that is found by many to be essential to participating in "the hobby" is, i would argue, a factor that can inhibit self awareness and even more strongly can inhibit awareness of others.

it is a rare and wonderful thing to meet someone in the hobby whose awarenesses of self and other does not seem to be impaired by compartmentalization. rare but not impossible. few are up to that challenge.

before some troll lashes out with a "who the hell do you think you are you condescending SOB!?", let me add a disclaimer. i make no representation that i am up to the challenge. i only know the issues, don't claim a solution.

Radcow 230 reads
posted
31 / 42

Birth, death, taxes, calamity, fleeting moments of joy, islands of clarity: That's what you can count on and not a lot more. When we over think shit as most of us tend to do, we wake up with headaches and a hard dick and wonder why. Keep the fuck out of your head and live in the moment. The rest of that shit checks itself.

GaGamblerssmarterbrother 254 reads
posted
32 / 42

Why do some people hve to make something so simple as NSA sex, compicated? I thought that most of us were here to make our lives less complicated, not more so???

madiba51 270 reads
posted
33 / 42

With self-awareness, you can learn who you really are. It makes life better, not worse.  It feels good to feel comfortable in your own skin, and to understand yourself realistically.

I still got a long way to go, myself, but so far it feels pretty good.  

guy69696969 2 Reviews 229 reads
posted
34 / 42

Nice to see that someone shares my feeling about it. Seems it is very dehumanizing more than anything else. Requires some major stones not to all the while keeping perspective.

Claudius42310 13 Reviews 249 reads
posted
35 / 42

as long as "the deal" is clear, it is not too hard to keep perspective. then there's no need to compartmentalize. compartmentalization is like objectification in many ways.

objectification is turning someone else into a thing. compartmentalization is turning ourself into a thing (as well as others incidentally).

in a choice between making things easier and turning self/others into things.... i'd rather have the difficulties and keep things human.

Claudius42310 13 Reviews 212 reads
posted
36 / 42

you won't notice the headaches and you'll be oblivious to the tumor that's causing them. ;-)

HalfHour 299 reads
posted
37 / 42

A lady walks into a drugstore and tells the pharmacist she needs some cyanide. ??The pharmacist says, "Why in the world do you need cyanide?"

The lady then explains that she needs it to poison her husband. The pharmacist's eyes get big and he says, "I can't give you cyanide to kill your husband! That's against the law! I'll lose my license. They'll throw both of us in jail and all kinds of bad things will happen! Absolutely not—you cannot have any cyanide!"

The lady reaches into her purse and pulls out a picture of her husband in bed with the pharmacist's wife. The pharmacist looks at the picture and says, "Ohhhh. Well, now. You didn't tell me you had a prescription!"

guy69696969 2 Reviews 248 reads
posted
38 / 42

I find the objectification abhorrent, since it's usually accompanied by a whole host of other pseudo-predatory behavior.........

upncummin52 28 Reviews 207 reads
posted
39 / 42

mirror to a leper, and have him stand in front of it day after day, he will feel more comfortable in his own skin?  Feel better about himself?  Maybe get involved in P4P?

You get up in the morning, you know that is you getting out of bed.  You know that is you shaving and showering to get to the job you wish you could quit.  You realize immediately that it is you that the boss is calling a worthless rectal polyp.  And you know it's you that gets to go home at the end of the day,not get laid by your wife again... only to start all over tomorrow!

How self aware do you need to be?

Claudius42310 13 Reviews 237 reads
posted
40 / 42

in situations apart from once and done scenarios. where there is a lot of repeat custom, objectification is a sign of bad behavior to come on one side or the other.

Claudius42310 13 Reviews 238 reads
posted
41 / 42

to take responsibility for as muchh of your own suffering as possible and do something about it. but no more.

a leper needs "enough" of a mirror to seek treatment. anyone needs "enough" self awareness to do something to better a situation that my be sick or suffering in some way.

that might include simply venting someplace when there is nothing to be done or taking more affirmative action.

too much self awareness can simply be self indulgent detachment from the world and others.

there is always a sweet spot, a Goldilocks position. not too much, not too little: just right.

buckoch 15 Reviews 271 reads
posted
42 / 42

which was exactly my Calculus professor taught me in college Sex=fun. She definitely was an excellent teacher....

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