First she is all of your main three. I'm just not lol

She was relentless about what she wanted, ME. That tells me she loves me. She goes out of her way to 'do for me' as most mens love language is acts of service.

Shes a college grad but chooses not to use the degree right now. Sadly my health wouldn't accomodate that. She's my nurse, masseuse, cook, lover, wife...etc  How many women would comit to this type of scenario? Not many.

LOVE is genuine, just be genuine. Worked for my wife. What would I do without her? Meander about aimlessly probably.....maybe not lol

If he doesn't like your brand of genuine then he isn't for you.

She was my ideal type in general. Sort of a love and first sight deal although I don't believe in it. Things just clicked without much thinking.

She doesn't need to make a lot of money but I'd hate to marry a baggage that I need to carry around the rest of my life. Life can be tough as it is and if something were to happen to me, I'd like to have some sense of security that she can support through hard times too. Good career and some financial security is a definite plus.  

Having sex... I don't think "when" is is the most important but probably better to keep it a mystery for a little while so that it really builds up inside him. lol   Still, good to find out if you guys are compatible in bed.

In a traditional sense, men usually chase the girl, yes so try to play a little hard to get but don't over do it lol. Of course you can be unconventional and be the one chasing, but that might turn him off. Find out what his style is. If he's sincere and honest (like myself lol), I'd be sincere and honest too, right back. It could be that maybe he just doesn't like playing mind games.

This place is turning into an online Cosmopolitan magazine.
We have hookers and johns here, and you want to ask about marriage?

At least that was the case I had.

I liked her well enough and we had pretty good sex.

I had just come off of therapy because I was always striking out with women and now I had a lot of power.  

I figured this was about as good as I could get and and I was approaching thirty and wanted to raise a family.  She wasn't bad and bore me two great kids, so I'm not bitching or anything.

The problems, if you want to call it that, started after about five years when she turned off the sex.

The rest, as they say, is history.

-- Modified on 7/8/2011 1:02:31 PM

(Click link.)

Temporary Insanity...

I hope to get some serious responses.  These are a few questions that I have for men who are, or have been, married:

What made you marry your wife?  
Was she particularly good in bed?  Great personality?  Attractive?

Do men want a woman more if they have to chase her?  As in, you ask her out and she's busy or she acts like she doesnt really like you?

Is it a turn off if the woman is too available or obviously likes you?  In other words, do you like the chase/ for her to play hard to get?  Is it better to pretend Im not interested in a guy (even though I am) so he can be the man and hunt me?

If a woman sleeps with you too quick, does that turn you off from committing to her?  Is it better to not have sex with a man until he proposes marriage or offers some type of committment?

How important is it that the woman makes a lot of money?  Would you rather have a woman that is a breadwinner and has a career, or a domestic woman who will stay home, cook, clean, and have children?

Is it best to not bring up any questions about commitment so that I dont scare him off?

I am asking these questions because I have a guy (non-hobby related) who I am possibly interested in settling down with.  He seems to like me a lot too but I was wondering if you guys had any tips for a woman who wants to close the deal.

Thanks!!

I've now been married nearly 30 years to my second wife.  The first wife are the reasons NOT to be married (I/she was too young, too immature, too naive).  Once that (thankfully) brief marriage was over (before I was 25) I then dated rather extensively and was asking myself the very questions you have posted (the one thing I absolutely knew was what I definitely DID NOT want).

The most important thing to me when I decided I wanted a life-long spouse was a gal that shared my dreams (and I hers) and long-range goals.  And the first and foremost for both of us was to have a family.  We also both wanted a "traditional family unit" whereby I would figure out how to make enough money to support this family and my wife would be the "homemaker" and raise the family (and I would include myself in this family as the perpetual child

If you were to look over my reviews, the common interest (physically) is a gal who is petite.  And my wife fits that profile quite nicely.  However, over the years she packed on a few extra unwanted pounds, and that ultimately caused her to look at that reflection and lost interest in frequent sex (what she couldn't understand was that my reflection had changed as well).  No matter how much I would compliment her (and funny that I always saw her as the same gal that I married...but she had a tough time believing me) she just wasn't very happy with herself.  And now, having used the information and ideas that so many gals here have helped me understand here, I have slowly been able to reignite that "bedroom fun" that had been missing for a long time.

As far as the chase question, I did enjoy that as the courtship ensued.  And once again I am trying to integrate that into our re-awakened marriage.  And voila, a major turn-on from both sides.  As far as the sleeping together..I think that would be overrated if you decide to hold out for a commitment.  In my case, we moved in together and sex was a major component of the early time together.  I wanted to make sure that we would be compatable on more than just a sexual level, as I assumed that (and history proved out to me) that familiarity would breed contentment.  So for me, making sure that we could co-habitate with minimal conflicts was very important to me (and I know she felt the same).

As far as money...well in my case I was a pretty successful entrepreuner.  I can't really comment on how important it would have been if I was just an average wage earner, and if my spouse did/did not want to participate in the household income fund.  My wife did go back to working part time doing things she enjoyed once the kids were on their own to speak (and now they have us as empty nesters).  And she has told me on many occassions that she really liked making her own money.  But money in our house was never, ever a tool that was used derisively.  If she needed something, I never had an issue in her spending what she needed for that item (activity).  As so many guys have lamented their "bitch" wives who did nothing for them...well I do think it "takes two to tango).

My best suggestion is to be brutally honest with this guy.  And by that, make sure that you agree on some key items that you (he) would consider deal-breakers.  If you can't decide on that middle ground now...the likelihood of making it happen down the road is slim at best.  And remember, both of you will grow and mature..hopefully on a similar plane as each other.

And, if he's convinced that she will continue to do so. Essentially, it's as simple as that, which at the same time is quite complicated for the woman. If he's the personality of a cheap date, and is easily pleased, then it's pretty easy if can can be yourself in while in the process of pleasing him. However, if he's moody, doesn't communicate in constructive ways what pleases or displeases him, or if he's basically just unhappy person for the most part, good luck.

OK! That being said, what are you going to get out of all your effort? Let him know what your expectations are, very clearly, before you say your "I do's, so he can make a fully informed decision regarding marrying you.

If a woman played hard to get I would move on immediately. Sleeping with me quickly isn't a problem. I'm dating a provider, so obviously that doesn't bother me. Waiting until marriage? I'd be out IMMEDIATELY if you suggested that.

And yes.. Good in bed, great personality, and attractive are all a must for me. But there also has to be that "spark", the chemistry. If it's there, and you both feel it, don't play stupid games and ruin it.

As for the woman making money, I don't mind supporting my wife as long as she's not staying home because she's lazy and doesn't want to work. It's very practical to have a stay at home wife, but if push comes to shove and I lost all my money she better not be complaining about having to go find a job.

I have a solution for you on this one...

Don't click here and move to something that interests you!

And for your information...I liked "Dear Ann Landers" a whole lot better

Be honest, brutally honest. In the civie world we all, (male/female) do things or agree to things , wether they be sexual in nature or habit in nature or desire in nature that try and make us more appealing. After a breakup men loose the gut or try, women learn how to suck cock a little better or at least will do it and on and on and on..... Then the attachment occurs and then the old habits and ways return. If you want a lot of sex, say so do not pretend once in a while is ok. If you are a spender or a saver do not hide it for a while. If anal sex is a no go say so, if you really like something or dislike anything you owe it to yourself to be open about it upfront. Most of us who were married and then divorced can pinpoint one of three big reasons and of those it really boils down to two. Money problems or sexual issues. If you can find someone who is genuinely in sync with you on those two you will make it through everything else. Assuming you are over 21 you both know you have been with several others and for your own sake be honest about your likes and dislikes. Do not think you will change him or her. Enjoy your youth, it fades, your ass will get bigger, your breasts will sag, at least mine have, and your interest will probably wane but be open about why. Trust me honesty is very arousing.

Also deeds not words. Watch what they do,  do not simply listen to what is said.

Just an old ugly fat fuck with an opinion

Different men will look for different things.  Each one of your scenarios/methods will work for different people (men and women).  The only way to know what your particular man wants is to ... gasp... ASK HIM.  

If you are sincerely asking these questions then you also must not know who YOU are as an individual or what YOU want in a relationship.  All of your "angles" on how to "play" a man into committing is exactly that - GAMING him.  And the worst part of that is that whatever game you come up with won't be genuine and in the end your 'game face' will falter and he'll see the real you.  If the real you doesn't line up with the game you sold him to get him to commit, be sure you have a good divorce attorney waiting in the wings.

Best advice I can give is NOT to try to figure out how to game him into commitment, but to do some soul searching and figure out what YOU want in a relationship.  Then, if he is the guy for you, he won't be able to help but commit.  If he's not the guy for you, you two can part amicably and honestly - leaving you both free to find a GENUINELY good fit.

There are thousands of men (if not hundreds of thousands, or millions, out of the roughly 3 BILLION men on the planet) who's ideas of how a relationship should function will line up with what YOU want in your heart of hearts and with whom you can be wonderfully happy and fulfilled.  

*Sidebar*
IMO, there is no such thing as "The One" or whatever.  It's a stupid fairy tale sold to children (primarily little girls) to make them worry more about what someone else thinks of them rather than to focus on what they think of themselves.  Think of Cinderella, Snow White, Rapunzel, Sleeping Beauty, and so many other well-known tales.  They all revolve around the damsel-in-distress waiting, helpless and ineffectual, for some man to rescue her.  And if the man rescues her, then by golly he MUST be HER Prince Charming!  Never do you hear of her saying, "Yeah, thanks for the help dude but you're not my type".  In today's society, that often translates into a girl running into a decent guy, laying the title of Prince Charming on him (regardless of his qualifications for that title) and doing anything to "keep" him - instead of examining her heart to see if he is REALLY what SHE wants.  So if you're laboring under the misconception that there is only ONE man out there for you, of course you're going to latch onto someone (anyone) and try to make an untenable relationship function.  And for what?  So you lose the YOU in the relationship? Why try to game someone into something YOU don't really believe in the first place?  What sense does that make?

Variation on Costner's "Build it and they will come".... Be the REAL YOU and the RIGHT man will come.

And for a Friday afternoon I would much rather have this a "topic" than some inane post about...well some of the ridiculous topics that are posted.

And as I posted earlier...no one is "forced" to reply, or even read any posts here.  And that is what I will do when I come across a post that I simply don't find interesting or entertaining.  I also don't have a need to post on a topic that I don't find interesting and let all of you know that it doesn't interest me (unless you think I should start doing this on every post I don't care about

This topic (assuming the OP is a current provider) I find interesting.  Hence my reply in a genuine context.

The great thing about this board is just stick around a while and there'll be another post coming along that you will also find interesting.

Prince Charming...I love that role

Interesting synopsis on the OP.  The part that you didn't really touch on is the "emotional" component (unless I misread your post).  That is the part of the dance that typically throws all of our understanding and rationale of the relationship "out the window".

As you discussed the OP not play a game many folks are so predisposed to "winning" that the romantic dance becomes more of a "duel".  With one or both sides looking at the end result as some sort of a prize...and unless it's on their terms, they would consider things a loss.

To succeed in any partnership (and I extend that to business partners) to succeed, there must be compromises made. If those parties cannot/will not see this, then that partnership is ultimately doomed to fail.  And in a marriage partnership, if those parties morph into someone else over time, that is when the divorce is imminent.  And so many (if not all) of us change over time, that with no elasticity these are partnerships that get stretched to a breaking point.

1.) Combination of things, some of which you've mentioned.  Looks, personality, intelligence, wit, sex appeal, sense of humor, comfort level, sexual interest and availability etc...

2.) At some point the chase becomes frustrating and unattractive.  It can be misinterpreted as you not likeing the guy.  I prefer honesty.  If you like me...tell me.  Don't make things more difficult than they already are.  Be availalble, but not overly needy in the begining.  

3.) Depends on the guy.  Sex relatively early does not necessarily make a guy avoid commitment.  Not having sex will not necessarily encourage him to commit.  My overall perspective has evolved a lot on this topic.  At one point in my life, I would have strongly advocated no sex at all until marriage. Now I'm not so sure about that.  

4.) The woman's financial status is irrelevant to me.  Her intelligence is important however.

5.) Do not bring up commitment early on.  It's best to wait and let him bring it up.  However, there may come a time when you must broach the topic first.  It depends.

Finally:  BE YOURSELF.  Some women tend to morph into the woman they think the guy wants only to morph back into their true identity after marriage.  Don't do that.  Do both of you a favor and honestly express your likes, dislikes, preferences, proclivities, etc....Don't attempt to trap or manipulate someone.  

Role play can be a blast, but if you try to LIVE a role (rather than living as your genuine self), you're doomed to misery, drama and failure.

I didn't really get into the emotional aspects of things because I don't know the OP well enough (at all, actually!).  I can make all sorts of generalizations based on my life experience and all the therapy and research I've done.  They may, or may not, apply.  But one thing I think is a definite...  A person must really know their own heart and then look for someone who genuinely appreciates whatever it is that they bring to the table. Putting on a facade and then manipulating that facade to please someone else is a sure way to misery.

If you're meaning the whole irrational "in love" feeling that can lead to us doing silly/stupid things....  Well, if you don't really know who you are inside, then you're not much more than a dinghy tossed about on a sea of emotion.  Sometimes riding high on a crest, sometimes getting rolled and sunk in that "perfect storm".  Knowing yourself acts as an anchor and tether.  You may still bob around a bit in that chemical soup that happens in our brains and feel some rushes of joy and some choppy lows, but you won't capsize or be swept out to sea.  When you're anchored in who YOU are as a person, you can enjoy feelings/emotions for what they are and not try to make them into what they are not.  Feelings are not facts.  They come and go, sometimes with reason and purpose and sometimes without.

Human beings are not static creatures.  We grow, learn, change and develop through our life experiences.  Since who we are is elastic, relationships have to be elastic.  But there are generally negotiables and non-negotiables in life.  Navigating the changes in who we are, and who our SO is, while both sides stick to the non-negotiables is the big challenge in life.  You can't really have non-negotiables if you don't know yourself in the first place.  And sometimes who we/our SO are changes so much that whatever basis we had for relationship in the first place is lost.  That is still a much different scenario than having no basis (or a false one) for a relationship to begin with.

While I enjoy the "role" of Prince Charming (and strangely enough that was a game I was introducing to a young lady that I have been seeing..albeit with a touch of BDSM involved), that is fine for a session.

Having seen divorce cases "up the ying yang" from the gal's perspective (I would generally represent the "non-propertied" spouse), the reasons were all too typical.  And after learning how a relationship ended up in the courts opened up my eyes as to "how to avoid that for myself".

As you discuss the negotiables and non-negotiables that is a good way to view how to give yourself the best chances of finishing the marriage (together).  And this is done in the beginning...knowing what you need, and what she needs.  Each of us has that DO NOT TOUCH item.  Where the marriage unravels is once those barriers are breached, it doesn't take long for everything to unravel.  

Each party will have their "secrets", and that is not necessarily a bad thing. They can range from hobbying to excessive shopping.  And everything in between.  But if you can maintain a balance between your vices, and not forcing issues down your partners throat, you can achieve modicums of compromise on almost any issue.

And in reality, many should and won't marry.  It is tough, on so many levels.  But for those who seek something that a marriage offers, understand yourself and the one who you want to be with.  And be as honest as possible, as if you start off with illusions, once the mirrors crack, you will have someone else standing before you.

-- Modified on 7/8/2011 4:43:09 PM

there, i said it out loud and i don't care who knows.

It is obvious to me that you have grown considerably as a person.  Hard work in this area has really paid off for you - congratulations on that.

-"What makes a man commit to or marry a woman?"

I can't speak for all men, just myself, but I wanted to marry my wife when I realized I did not want to to vision a life without her in it. I realized that she made me want to be a better man, and I loved her. Plus I knew she loved me as well.

-"What made you marry your wife? Was she particularly good in bed?  Great personality?  Attractive?"

I have always found my wife extremely attractive. She is the best I have ever been with in bed. But that is not what made me fall in love with her. It was who she was on the inside, her personality.

She is a very kind and caring lady that looks for the good in people. She makes me laugh. She seen past my walls and seen the man inside. She didn't judge me for my many failures in who I was, but seen the man I was fighting to become. She brought out the best in me and gave me reason to care. She made me think I was worth while. She was supportive. She was my princess charming and helped me rescue me from myself. She completed me.

The funny thing is she says the same thing about me when I ask her why she chose me. How could I not marry her? I don't believe there is just one person out there for each of us but if there she was her for me.

-"Do men want a woman more if they have to chase her?  As in, you ask her out and she's busy or she acts like she doesnt really like you?"

Maybe in the short term, but games will not net you the man you want long term. Such game are more likely to lose the guy. Just be honest.

-"Is it a turn off if the woman is too available or obviously likes you?  In other words, do you like the chase/ for her to play hard to get?  Is it better to pretend Im not interested in a guy (even though I am) so he can be the man and hunt me?"

NO!!! Be yourself that is the best way to get the man that is right for you. Skip the games. If you have the hots for him let him know.

-"If a woman sleeps with you too quick, does that turn you off from committing to her?  Is it better to not have sex with a man until he proposes marriage or offers some type of commitment?"

It depends on who you are and who he is. For a God fearing couple, marriage first is likely wise. For a couple of horn dogs, best to jump on it. Be yourself, that includes sexually. We are all different.

-"How important is it that the woman makes a lot of money?  Would you rather have a woman that is a breadwinner and has a career, or a domestic woman who will stay home, cook, clean, and have children?"

It depends on the individuals involved again and what they want in life. I could care less if my wife ever makes a dime again in her life. I would be happy if she chose to be a "domestic woman". My wife wants to be a bread winner and that is fine with me as well. What you need to do is find out what you want in life then find out what he wants and if they are a match maybe you are to. You need to have the same basic goals or your doomed. Again be honest, you will be glad you were.

-"Is it best to not bring up any questions about commitment so that I dont scare him off?"

Early in the game let him bring it up, but if he don't after a year you must if that is what you want. Bring it up too early will scare him off. Don't be to clingy. It is OK to case him, though, if that is who you are.

-"He seems to like me a lot too but I was wondering if you guys had any tips for a woman who wants to close the deal."

Be who you are. If you don't know who you are find out first. Be honest with him. Let him know how you feel. Share your goals in life. Listen to him. Show you care. If he is the right one for you he will be responsive and things will happen. If not you are both better off. Don't play games and try to be who he wants as that can't last and he will not know who you are. Be yourself.

I wish you luck.

Everything you ask you should already know, in that you should know what you want. Be true to yourself first, are you aggressive? Then don't worry if he wanted to chase he is not really your type. If you're a provider you know how to please a man but what you need is a man that is pleased when your just yourself. You don't try to figure out what a man wants to commit to you but what you want to commit to him. If you both find reasonably close to what you want commitment will come. Unfortunately many times it is lopsided and doesn't work out but that is what civie dating is about. In P4P you try to be what the client wants for the time he books. In real life you need to be yourself and look for what you want and express that to him.

i'll give you mine.

the reasons i was attracted to my spouses included attractiveness, intelligence, good communication and terrific skills. (recollections of one are particularly "heart" warming).

i did not have to chase them. they invited a chase, by different methods. i don't fall for someone unless there is some sort of invitation. i'm usually too busy with the rest of life.....

in all cases we had sex before marriage. one "made me wait". another (happens to be my favorite ex spouse) took me to bed on the first date.

i prefer that she have her own interests and that the relationship be an equal partnership. both work, both take care of kids, if any, etc. both make money and pay the bills.

now i have absolutely no tips for a woman who wants to close the deal. it all depends on you and him. the only tip i do have is be yourself and don't make it so damn tricky.

was that i was quite convinced that she needed that legal commitment so much that saying 'no' would risk prematurely terminating the relationship.

Blah, blah, blah. 'Don't open it and read it if you don't want to.'

OSP's right. I'd much rather read and comment on someone's drunken escapades, fucking everything that didn't have a dick than read about some whiny alias crying about they met THE man and how can they corner his ass into falling for her bullshit and marrying her hooker self.

Wish I could say I had a long ass day as to my reason why I'm unloading on you. I did. But I've been getting the gist of your posts lately. I'll admit, I kiss some of these lady's asses. Cuz I want to fuck 'em. But you kiss all their asses. If they stopped walking, your head would go so far up there you could tell us how their colon tastes.

And in the same respect, 'I also don't have a need to post on a topic that I don't find interesting and let all of you know that it doesn't interest me'? WTF is this all about then? You could've just as easily STFUd and walked on by. Isn't that what you're preaching?

Shit. Fucking hypocrites.

'I don't like what other people post so I don't read or respond to them because they don't interest me. BUT I didn't like what you posted but felt the need to respond.'

Make up your fucking mind.

Thanks so much Rickshaw!!  Your opinion made a lot of sense and hit home for me!!!

Thank you very much for your thorough and thoughtful response.  What I took away from it is:  not to "pretend" I dont like him so he can chase me.  That IS ridiculous.  I do like him, why not tell him?

Also, I will not be too worried about when I sleep with him.  At first, I planned to hold out for a long time, so he could see that I am interested in something real with him, but I think I'll just do it when it seems like the natural thing to do.

I think I'll try not to worry so much about how to get him to commit, and just let it come if/when its supposed to happen!!

Many thanks!!

Very interesting perspective!!  I cant believe you married a woman that you slept with on the first date!!!

In my younger years, when I slept with a man too soon, they always dumped me soon after.  But I guess now that Im dealing with older men, they are not so shallow to immediately dismiss a woman who is sexually liberal

it is always a pleasure to remember her. quite beautiful and talented, our non erotic interests meshed well enough that we were a good team for double digit years. and yes, she was "liberal". she certainly "liberated" me too.

i remember (in the afterglow) saying i was surprised. i speculated that since we had known each other without dating for a couple of years that that maybe she was already "comfortable" with me enough to take a shortcut to the bedroom. then she REALLY surprised me. she said, "no. if i'm not sure i want to sleep with a guy, i won't got out with him in the first place". then she filled me in on her full sexual history. it was quite colorful. in between LTRs she had many short encounters.... she had no qualms about the 4 Fs.

i didn't care. aside from her many wonderful qualities i was also very much looking for someone who could tell it like it is.

i'm not typical. i wouldn't shape any campaign to get a commitment by my experieces. but i'd also caution that you not shape a campaign by what a"typical" guy's responses would be. the typical guy doesn't exist. he's a fiction, a stereotype. if you are really into some guy and want a commited relationship (details are up to you to work out), you need to address his needs as an individual.

i think that is key. it is true in the civy world as well as in hobbyland in my experience. i prefer to repeat. the lovely ladies that i repeat with successfully treat me as an individual and not as "just another guy".

You'll know her when you find her. Take your time and get to know her very well in each and every aspect of her being to be sure it will be a good fit and that you can grow together.

Deciding who you will marry is the most important decision you will ever make in your life.