This may sound elitist, but from time to time I am reminded of a few simple facts of life regarding the Hobby.  Guys, do you know who else your Provider has seen?  Ladies, do you know who else your client has been with?  I was reminded of this again today while surfing some of the other Hobby sites, where I read a post by a guy happily reporting his experiences picking up streetwalkers in a certain crack-infested neighborhood.  He has also posted about visitng the same kind of incall joints I frequent.  We've probably been with the same girls because he's a local.  That gave me pause, even though it didn't really surprise me.

I did the street scene once too, so I have no claim to superiority.  That was long ago and I look back on that now as unwise.  Now I associate and do business with a what I consider a better class of ladies.  In many respects it is a vast improvement over my earlier activites, but in the realm of possibly catching STD's, I've hardly moved at all, because there are many Hobbyists who participate at all levels of the Hobby.  Knock on wood, I've never caught anything, but have had myself tested.  

A Hobbyist may pay top dollar for an escort with her own website one day, and be cruising the mean streets the very next night, looking for a $20 BBBJTC in the front seat of his car.  Remember Hugh Grant, Eddie Murphy and that basketball player a few years back?  Think they can't afford the Heidi Fleiss escorts?  Not all guys pick up these girls because they're broke and can't do better.  Some guys like the thrill  that you can only get from the streets.  I know how that feels too.  Some guys are just horny and don't give a shit.

I think we mostly consider ourselves to be good and decent people with at least a little class, and standards about who we will and will not "do."  The problem is, those we see may not be so discriminating.  The same applies to the other ones they see.  By the same token, how many of us have been horrified to see a favorite girl get reviewed by someone who also reviews TS "girls?"  Ladies, a similar question to you.  Ever see a TER handle you've been with post a review of a TS?  Political Correctness be damned, how'd it make you feel?

Yes, we're all big boys and girls and know we should practice safe sex.  Some of us probably also see someone we may do a little more with than we know is smart, because we trust them.  I'm not necessarily talking BBFSTC, but there's a lot of other stuff most of us would never do with a homeless drug addict that we might do with a certain client or provider.  Again, this is nothing new or surprising, but easily gets lost sight of sometimes.  

What am I advocating?  Just be aware, and try to play safe.

opinions about how safe it is.

I only see highly rated TER providers.  I always use a condom for FS, but usually enjoy a BBBJ, and also like to DATY without protection.

Does anyone who is truly knowledgeable want to weigh in with their opinion, for those of us in my situation, on just exactly how dangerous this is?

or after their encounters.  I believe there is a thread about something like that 15 or 18 months ago here or in LA board.  Maybe it is time to discuss that some more.

I have resisted my urge to see those ladies (yes, it is prejudical on my part and unfair to them); though one of them is very attractive and offers excellent service.

It is also hard to know what kind of sex partners a lady has in her personal life.  Just have to be careful out there.

I am rewriting this post, so I can make myself clearer on this issue that was brought up (bear with me folks):

My initial posting, was basically referring to the gentleman, who doesn't see girls, whose clients have seen Ts's.

Again- My main concern is a possible "witch-hunt" of providers, who may feel the backlash of these men, who now refuse to see me, or any other provider, because of an issue that they may have with one of my previous clients, which they should NOT be judged for.

I hope this post was clearer than the last, and thanks for reading..

Mel

-- Modified on 4/27/2003 5:17:35 PM

Considering the recent events in my business. My health and safety was questioned recently by a gentleman who noticed a gent I had seen had also seen a couple of TS Girls. Feelings were hurt and my safety was called into question.

What I find amazing in situations like these is the exact elitist attitude you describe. (and no darling I am not slamming you *smiles*)  There are gentleman out there that just assume that because a provider charges Top Dollar that she must be safe, classy and respectable. This is a laugh. I KNOW...and I mean KNOW personally many Top Ranked ladies in the US who have engaged in BBFSTC with some of their clients. Never Assume that because a lady has great reviews, charges a high end price and her reviews never state certain things that it does not happen. I would say about 90% of all the women I have met and dealt with in this business are very safe. Like me some have children, partners and we do care very much for the gentlemen we see and we are not about to put anyone at risk. The pro's and con's of taking the risks in this hobby are weighed out everyday over coffee..long telephone calls and emails.

I personally am more worried about the girls these guys see on the side in Civillian life. My neighbor, for all intensive purposes is a great gal. Jr. Ceo of her company, classy and smart. And on the weekends she drinks and screws as many guys as she can for fun . Most of the time unprotected. I have tried to tell her that pregnacy should be the least of her worries. She laughs it off. To look at her you immediately think,,,,ahhh class and elegance at its best. But personally, I would rather see a guy who has engaged in the fantasy of getting a BJ from a TS then ever seeing someone she has slept with.

I guess my point being is that we ALL take risks as we partake in this hobby on either side. It is truly a matter of how safe you want to be. Not to slam the SO's of any of the gents out there, but how well do you know your wives and girlfriends? Are you absolutely sure they are not partatking of some activity on the side?  You do? What would stop them? And would you stake your life on the fact that when and if you make love to them, they are not putting you at risk? And what about the gents who love to see Porn Stars? These ladies have engaged in some serious activites on film, some uncovered. They play safe in the biz...but does that make them any safer or any more a risk than the rest of us?

I would like to be around to watch my granchildren grow and be able to look back on my time in the biz with some fond memories. I take the precations nessacary to ensure that.


Unfortunately nothing in this life is full proof. We need to be safe as we participate here and in our personal lives. The hobby could disapear tomorrow without a trace...and people would still continue to try and find that fantasy and fullfillment elsewhere. You seem to have at least a small bit of knowledge here as to how safe and reliable your experiences can be.


regards,
lass



-- Modified on 4/27/2003 2:08:55 PM

Everyone has their fantasies and I respect them. My big question to you Mel and everyone else is...why the stigma about a gent seeing a TS? As most reviews state, the majority of the sessions are the gent recieveing oral from the TS. How does this make them more at risk than any of us? seriously, is it a homophobic issue? Is it safety?

The TS ladies I have known in my life have had so much estrogen pumped into their bodies that most are not funtionally in their male parts. I know this is not true for all. But would you hesitate to see a gent if he was clean, well mannered, a gentleman and generous and insisted you play safe all across the boards if you knew he saw a TS? What if you saw a review by this gent and one of his reviews was of a top end provider that you knew had engaged in BBFS, not as a regular practice, but had in the past? What if you found out she at one time was a man, and she was post-op and looked just like any other woman? Would that cloud your reasoning in seeing that gent again?

This is not directly related to you Mel sweety, so please dont take offense. but I find this topic fascinating...


xoxox
Lass

Very interesting topic, indeed...

This subject got me very curious, and I just took the opportunity to go into my reviews, and noticed that there are a few men, who have seen a TS, prior to meeting me and or, after. Honestly, it never occured to me to even ask, what a TS was back then. I also remembered, that when they had written to me for an appt., and had supplied their their references, not one of those girls were mentioned, but other providers.

I just don't want this to be a witch hunt for those providers, whose clients have seen Ts's, that is my main concern, and that was the point that I was trying to express in my previous post. I don't know how well I did (?) lol.

NO- I need to be honest and say, that wouldn't stop me from seeing a client. I am assuming, that they had played it "safe" so to speak, as they would be playing it "safe" with me.

This also came to my mind, as I am sitting here...

As the post above, when the gentleman is saying that he doesn't see girls, whose clients have seen Ts's- I think that is really sad I hate being put into a category, and it's not fair to put other's into one, as well.

No offense, taken- beautiful lass

Mel

-- Modified on 4/27/2003 2:17:56 PM

Isn't that what CONDOMS are for?

(No, they don't protect against EVERYTHING, but they do protect against MOST things, and against the truly deadly.)

Sincerely,
Nicole

(And not necessarily asking you specifically, Mel).... Why would it be deemed more unsafe to have safe sex with a TS, than with a straight male? Or a bi male? I mean do any of us really KNOW that our gents don't EVER engage in bi activities?

To me, unsafe is unsafe, period... if we protect ourselves, the sex of our partners should really be irrelevant, shouldn't it???

Hugs*
Nicole

I mentioned these specifically because I have my opinion as to where on the "at risk" scale these individuals register.  I'm guessing most of us feel the same way.  Street girls are often IV drug users with poor hygiene, no self-esteem and little regard for their own or anyone else's safety.  If you've noticed (from reviews or whatever), most TS's out there are pre-ops and are still packing salami.  TS's take it up the ass as often as they give BJ's.  And if you read the reviews, the TS "girls" often get blown themselves, by the same guys who later DATY a Provider who has the original female equipment.

Please don't anyone say, "don't generalize, they're not all like that!"  Yeah, I know.  But enough of them are that it concerns me, and probably concerns most of us as well.

When I read the postings I alluded to in my original post here, I felt like some asshole had just taken a wizz in my swimming pool.  Of course, I know there's probably a lot of that going on  below the waterline anyway, but reading that was still a real mood killer.  

My point is, with all the "cross-pollination" going on, we can never be too sure about the ones we're with, and shouldn't get too comfortable.  It's like being a soldier.  Maybe you like the Army, but you know it's dangerous and accept the risks.  But every time the guy next to you gets hit, you're reminded of your own mortality.

First and foremost, I am assuming, that every man and woman is playing it safe. Period. That was my whole point, in my previous thread. I cannot answer for those, who are not playing it that way. Again (for this not to take out of context of my previous post above)- My main worry is a "witch-hunt" for those providers, who have clients, who have seen Ts's. I don't want there to be a back lash for those providers (such as myself), whose clients are seeing Ts's because all of a sudden, a man decides that he doesn't want my services cause a client of mine had seen one (did I make sense there? lol). I cannot control who they see. Nor, should I be responsible for their actions. All I can do is be responsible for my own actions by seeing a gentleman. I do hope and pray, that regardless of who they are with (Ts or Not), that they are playing it safe. Period.

I need to make clear here, that I have NOTHING AGAINST Ts's. Infact, there is one Ts in Boston, that I do talk to from time to time, and she is sillier than I am I like her friendship, infact. So, I hope that no one takes any of my posts out of context (just for future references lol).

Uggghhhh...now, I am back to reading my favorite romance novel here, folks

Mel

Now, here is my question to you all. Would you see a provider, knowing that one of her clients have seen a TS? I would hate to be judged, on what my client did or is doing with other providers (which is their own business).

Mel

-- Modified on 4/27/2003 5:45:11 PM

Point well taken.  But condoms are mostly used for vaginal (or anal) sex.  As for oral sex, some girls will BBBJ you as long as you don't cum in their mouth, many others will let you cum, and some will even swallow.  Facials?  Then there's DATY.  There are few Providers or Hobbyists who seem to have any desire to use dental dams.  Rimming?  Also on the menu a lot of the time.

Like you said, condoms do provide some protection most of the time, but are somewhat ineffective against viruses, like HIV, warts and herpes.

All things considered, it's a little un-nerving to think about someone patronizing the higher-risk Providers, and then coming to see some of our favorites.  That's what I'm talking about.

Yes, I would.  

Considering all the above, there's not much point in being too squeamish, unless you want to give up sex altogether and just masturbate.  All we can do is practice "safe sex" (though it's debatable how safe that is) and keep our fingers crossed.  I was just sharing my reaction to something I read and wondered how all of you felt.

because HIV is blood-borne, and semen contains no blood.

Papercup, I agree 100% with everything you've posted in connection with this issue, and wish all fellow hobbyists had your common sense.  Thanks.

My safety is much more important that your feelings...sorry.

Actually golf has proven more dangerous to me than the escort services.  I fractured my ankle the first time out on a golf course on the second hole when I fell off the ball washer!

Men who see TS providers are at least bisexual. Obviously we would not assume that a man ONLY sees providers to have sex. So why should be assume a man ONLY sees TS providers to have gay sex? Just like hobbyists who see providers also have sex with wives, girlfriends, dates (sometimes unprotected), hobbyists who see TS providers will also have sex with boyfriends and dates (sometimes unprotected). There is the first risk: likelihood that the man seeking TS providers has, is having or will have unprotected gay sex at some point, thus making him high risk.

Secondly, gay men are in general promiscuous and indiscriminate. If you know anything about gay bars vs. real bars you'll know in the gay bars everyone's getting laid. It's women who put the brakes on (let's wait till we get to know each other, we just met, can I call you?, are you married, do you like me, tell me you love me, use a condom blah blah - you won't hear any of that in a gay bar). So we've got two horny men together and no level-headed woman to put the brakes on (sorry guys but it's true).

Thirdly, from everything I know (and I know quite a bit) vanilla sex is never enough for most gay men, they are always searching, searching for new partners, new things to try, new perversions, more extreme and dangerous sex acts. What kind of person will decide to be a TS provider? Just like women who choose to be providers there will be a significant proportion who are junkies, mentally or emotionally imbalanced, irresponsible or flaky. Probably not people who have their health (or yours) as a first priority.

The TS providers in MY area also pick up guys on the street, in bars, in cars. How do I know? I have a very good friend who is gay and very active in the gay social scene in my city. He happened to come over when I was checking out reviews at the Erotic Review and saw a photo of a TS provider. "Hey, that's xxxx!" he exclaimed. "I see him/her all the time on the streets at at the donut shop late at night picking up tricks!" Curious to see if he knew anymore, we then proceeded to look through Exotics and Eros looking to see if he "knew" anyone else and lo and behold he knew quite a few or had seen them working the streets.

For instance in Los Angeles there is a top rated TS provider who does both TS porn and gay male porn - sometimes he is a guy, sometimes a TS "girl" depending on who's paying him that day. He's not the only gay male with a double life, you'd be surprised at how many TS providers can be just "regular" guys when they're not working.

http://www.erosla.com/files/la-parker3.htm
http://www.kaylacoxx.com/indexb.html

Sex with prostitutes or gay men is considered risky behavior. Just ask the blood bank or your local STD clinic. And sex with a gay male provider who is sexually indiscriminate and picks up guys on the street? Very risky indeed.

If you can bear it, take a look at http://www.bareback.com (click on the 'search' function and search for people in your area) and http://search.barebackcity.com/ and look up the ads for your city. You will be surprised at the hundreds of gay men in your city actively cruising for gay BAREBACK sex with strangers. Some of them advertise as "escorts" - be sure to look at that section. Some of them, called bugchasers, are actively seeking to infect or be infected with HIV. It's mindboggling - and very scary.


-- Modified on 4/27/2003 8:29:23 PM

A good question. There are several providers I would like to see but have reviews submitted by hobbyists that have seen TS. It depends on the desire to see the provider.

I doubt that many of the hobbyists that thoroughly check a lady's reviews to see if any of her clients have ever seen a TS are going to be persuaded to no longer conduct the search.

Personally I would not spend much time conducting such a search.  However if a hobbyist wished to use this as part of his search criteria that is his right whether it is logical or fair.  Many of the criteria that some hobbyists and some providers use to determine whether they will get together are not necessarily based in logic or fairness.  

Some providers will not see a hobbyist if by checking his reviews they think he has seen one or more in their opinion high volume providers.

Some providers will not see a hobbyist unless almost all his reviews are a 9 or 10.  Apparently they want to make sure that they will almost always get 9's and 10's.

Some providers don't want to see black (fill in the blank) clients.

Some providers don't want to see overweight clients.

Some hobbyists don't want to see any provider that screens at all and others will not see a provider unless she extracts his life history before seeing him.

I doubt that many of the hobbyists or providers are going to change their thinking on these subjects because of anything somebody else says.

...just because she has not been reviewed by a man who has also reviewed a TS (whew, that was a mouthful!).  She might have seen a bisexual man, and you (and probably she) don't know it.

with regard to TS.  Strangely though being a straight heterosexual, I have no problem being friends with gay or bisexual men.  Somehow they don't create the kind of nervousness from me as in the case of a TS (have never met one face to face).  I think it is the gender confusion thing that unnerves me.

Should providers tell a client before they meet: have you ever seen a TS? If so, then I will refuse to meet you??? It kind of defeats the whole purpose of people meeting one another.

popular young lady.  Both of them offer all the Continental European languages.

I have no idea you have reviews posted by one of those cross reviewers.  Even though from time to time I have done a compilation of data on a particular lady, I only did so in cases of ISOs of lesser knowns.

I don't think there is any one in these boards who would question your sound judgment and your concern for safety.  Many members here have known you as an intelligent, compassionate, outspoken, diplomatic, beautiful, sensual and passionate woman.  As your highly rated reviews testified, no one will be disappointed after a meeting with you.

I'm sorry, jackvance, but I'm afraid I have to correct you:  Semen is a blood product.  It's positively TEEMING with HIV when produced by an infected individual.  Fortunately, saliva is toxic to HIV, as is, of course, hydrochloric (stomach) acid.

But, most people have fissures in their mouths.  If one suffers from bleeding gums, has recently bitten their cheek or tounge, or has even brushed their teeth or flossed within an hour or so of introducing semen into their mouths, they are at risk of contracting HIV if exposed.

Another sobering thought is HPV, or human papilloma virus (genital warts).  This is EXTREMELY contagous.  And condoms are not as effective in stopping HPV as they are in stopping other STDs.  A normal immune system will usually surpress HPV into remission, but under periods of stress, the infection can recurr (even after fifteen to twenty years).  

Gential warts aren't a big deal, especially for men.  But, if they form on a woman's cervix, they can lead to cancer, and THAT'S my concern.  It's estimated that seventy percent of sexually active people have some form of HPV.  

Ladies, you're very important to me.  Please be careful.  Don't forget that PAP test every six months.

Go to Google, and input "genital warts."  You'll get plenty of information

What % of a providers sessions do you think is reviewed? maybe 1% on average?

I think its silly to even look at who has seen a provider on TER and make any conclussions about who they have seen overall.

So even though it is probably fair to assume that someone who sees a TS is more likely to have an STD you are fooling yourself if you take some sort of comfort in seeing a privider who has not been reviewed by someone who has been reviewed by someone who has seen a TS

In my opinion understand the risk you are exposing yourself too(which means that there is a very good chance the privider you are seeing has an STD)and use the protection you feel is needed to limit your risks.Like everything in life, seeing providers requires a cost benefit analysis. Just go in with your eyes open and make your desisions about what you will do and how often occordingly!

rule one that others would agree with?  Assuming that it was nice, gentle brushing.  I'm about ready to start brush at least several hours before at a minimum, and then chomp a few Tic-Tacs just before the date!

-- Modified on 4/28/2003 6:42:41 PM

-- Modified on 4/28/2003 6:44:05 PM

...the preoccupation with TS's.  I mentioned them as an afterthought in my original post, just because they are generally considered "high risk," along with the streetwalkers I was mainly talking about.  I was also interested that streetwalkers got relatively little attention, when, at least in my opinion, they're probably more "high risk" than a TS.

I think the thing you are forgetting is that there are people who practice UNSAFE sexual activities of every sexual persuasion. The other thing to remember is that if a gent doesn't post a review, you'll never know if someone who reviewed me had his rear reamed by some street gay guy the night before. You won't know, you cannot know.

EVERYONE should really be working on the assumption that the person they are with could potentially give them a disease! If we practice sex that way, we will take the precautions necessary to ensure that it doesn't matter who that person had sex with the day before.  The bottom line is that you will NEVER be able to control what other people do. You can ONLY control what YOU do.

I will grant you that the bareback thing seems to be a fetish for a part of the gay community. Apparently it's not exactly unknown in the hetero world either, judging from the poll above! Perhaps the difference is that they are more up front with it vs. here where I at least, hardly EVER hear of it and when I do it's because it is so remarkable! At least, I THOUGHT it was so remarkable.

BTW I've been to a few gay bars and I can tell you that there was not "rampant unprotected sex" going on. Of course there are exceptions to every rule!  Gays as a community are much better educated and AS A COMMUNITY are in general much safer these days then they were in the 80's... but shucks, aren't we all?

I'll have to go peek thru the CDC site again, but I'm willing to bet that HIV rates are higher in drug using communities regardless of sexual persuasion. I'd be much more concerned about someone being a heroin addict, than about their being gay.

Hugs*
Nicole