An aquaintance bachelor friend has been a hobbyist all his life (he is 50).  He has dated strippers and providers over the years and now living in a country where sex is very cheap he bargains the girls down on their hourly rate.  He reckons he treats them so well in bed that they keep wanting him to stay longer and go back despite the price.  He can afford full price so why does he feel the need to bargain down the price?  Your thoughts?

He has no class.  Pure and simple.

He treats them well in bed?  Well that's considered normal behaviour by most people. Your 'friend' shound not consider himself special because he reckons he's a reasonable lover.

The person you are describing sounds like an a**hole.

"he reckons he treats them so well in bed that they keep wanting him to stay longer"

ROFL I have a bridge you might be interested in buying. Or perhaps you would be interested in some ocean front property in Arizona?

If the rates are cheap in his area it is likely due to too much competition, hence any client is a welcome client, despite having to bite the bullet and take a cut in an already cheap rate.

Me personally, when I get e-mails suggesting I offer a discount, I send the e-mail to my spam folder and forget about it. If I get a phone call asking for a discount, I hang up and add the number ot my do not answer list - and forget about it. There is simply nothing more insulting than a cheap bastard who wants to haggle over price.

He is for sure no gentleman.
And I'll bet that if you asked the ladies, they will tell you he isn't that "hot" in bed either.
Sounds like a ego/power trip to me.

As Carrie said, he's an a**hole.

Just my opinion...
B

If he is so special in bed, he should pimp himself out

I'm willing to bet he's the kind who looks down on women he pays for sex, and bargaining reinforces that.

In other words, a jerk.

--b.

The following hasn't happened to me, but got me thinking about it~ what if you set everything up and got to the appointment and then a new client started trying to haggle? Would  you leave? I think I would just walk out. I mean, 1) its extremely rude and inappropriate to try to discuss money, and 2) if you can't afford a lady's price, don't see her! But it almost makes me wonder if some guys (like the guy in the original post), knowing a gal won't talk money on the phone or email, would wait until she got there, figuring once she was there she'd go along with it? Just wondering if that has happened and what you have done (as stated before, I am sure most gentleman wouldn't dream of it, but there are always a few "bad apples" I suppose)

XoXo,
Marea

-- Modified on 5/24/2007 11:39:20 AM

-- Modified on 5/24/2007 11:40:05 AM

If most guys would bargain they'd force the price down and actually - maybe - get their money's worth.  It stuns me to see how many guys pay top dollars for mediocre sessions.  Of course, the providers don't see it that way, but then, when did anyone who was overcharging and getting it, ever feel bad?  Hobbyists are suckers.

If a lady feels that she would like to lower her rate for a guy, so be it, that is her perogative, and his to brag about it.

I know many ladies find it insulting, I don't... that doesn't mean I will accept a lower rate, but sometimes the client has something to offer that I may want or need.  Without a bargaining chip however, I don't think I would accept, but with one, I may consider it... that said, having a big prick, or whatever, isn't one of those bargaining chips!

xoxox
Anik

here is my two cents....lol.......competition is just that competition.  So on the first issue which is....a bargaining down, I don't have a prob with that.  In a great many cultures and countries bargaining is expected and just a natural part of the entire economics.  Here in the good ole USA, too many women are charging WAY too high of prices and guys are dumb enough to pay em.  So of course, the more guys willing to pay, the more the prices go up and up and up.  Sorry but to me, $300 an hour and your a 40 ish yof with "services" that are just pretty standard...you are way over priced!!!!  I make good money but the erason I make good money is that I am not stupid enough to throw it away.  I shop, I look and yes I certainly have and will pay some premium $$$$  BUT expect PREMIUM service/looks/ etc

On the other issue....him figuring that he is a terrific lover-what a scream.....are you frigging kidding me???  LOL  I get an earful from numerous ladies about some of their clients (no its not all the time so guys and gals just relax on blasting them for chatting about clients) but for the most part guys "hobbying" have a pretty skewed and warped sense of self.  A lot of guys forget that if ya throw $$$ on a working gal, of course she is gonna stroke your ego.....hell she wants the repeat cash and if you are a decent enough guy, hell she will want you back as well!!!  LOL
Guys seem to forget...its like the Mafia....its nothing personal, its just business...lol

1 - he enjoys the negotiation and loves winning at it.

2 - as mentioned, it's an ego stroke to him to think that these ladies enjoy his company so, that they would willingly return despite his haggling.

shameful that he does this is in foreign countries where the working girls need every penny they can get.

i bet he wouldn't try it back home!

~bella

But good luck getting review #6.  The way to fix the lady being over-priced is to avoid her.  If she lowers her price to your target, great.  Haggling is rude, and I'd worry that my 20% discount results in a 20% worse experience.  The only time discussing altering the rate makes any sense to me at all is if you can provide something in return.  For example, volume discounts for weekly visits.  Even then, it's far better to wait for her to offer.

your fabulous ability in bed, then bargaining is not welcome at all.  xoxox  Anik

were just simply spectacular.  but then again.... I am green!   I've also been with 20ist gals - and let's just say, they were ok, but not spectacular....  

By the way, part of why I pay the gals IS TO STROKE my ego... ya know, GFE!  

finally, its just business.... but I'll tell ya what - it is called the "world's oldest PROFESSION"  get it?  Profession.  There are sociology definitions of profession - and this one fits the definition.  So.... with other professions, do you haggle?  "Gee mr. brain strugeon.... huh huh.... I need u to re move my braim tumore... kan u dew that?  fur me? and I wood like to pay only $!"  Yea, like I'm gonna do that!  

You get -what you pay for.... and maybe they stuck around to see if he would fall asleep - so they could take his wallet...?  maybe?  hummm?

My guess is that they probably want to stay longer because he is an American and they're trying to marry him and get out of the hell-hole country that they're in. His love-making skills are probably irrelevant to them.

I recently offered to give a lady a nice massage but warned her that a happy ending was going to cost her a nickle more.

-- Modified on 6/15/2007 12:29:16 AM

That makes the competition pretty steep.  If you are the one paying, you don't need to be the sucker.  You're the suckee.  Always bargain.  The worst thing that can happen is they say "no" or refuse to service you, which is probably just as well in the latter case.  Bargaining can be a test of a person's willingness to "provide".  It nice to have standards, but other people should not have to pay or them.  Sticker price is for fools.

"Treats them so well in bed"?? Are you kidding? What do the girls care about his supposed prowess??

If you can get quality companionship by bargaining them down, more power to you, but I doubt very much that really top providers (not necessarily in price but in reputation) who are in demand from clients who don't dicker over their services will give you the time of day.  Of course, there are always bottom feeders who can scrounge...

While I'm not 40'ish...I'm certainly not 20 anymore either.  My donation is comparable to the going rate for Vegas.  Not everyone is looking for that 20 year old.  To each their own.  I do not negotiate my donation for the simple reason that I am a fair person.  For example if gent A calls and I negotiate one price for him, and then gent B calls and want the same appointment date and time and is willing to pay full fare, guess who I'm going to be tempted to cancel on??  Not fair to the guy that I first negotiated with, which is why I refuse to place myself in a position to have to make that kind of decision. Sometimes a provider does what she must to survive when times are slow, but unless this guy lives out of the country where such practices are the norm, he sounds like a complete jerk.

A middle age husband and wife visit New York for the first time from their small midwestern town.

The man decided to kill an hour or so in the lounge of the hotel while his wife got ready for dinner.  He spied a very shapely young lady sitting by herself in the lounge and she gave him the "come hither" look.  The man is no hobbyist, but he knows a hooker when he sees one.  He came over and they chatted and the subject of money arose.  "How much would I need to spend to make love to you?", he asked.  "$300", replied the shapely lass.  "Gosh, that's a lot more than I can spend.", said the man in response. "Well, for $200 I could just give you French."  replied the lady.  "That's still a lot more than I can spend." the man came back.  

"Well, how much money do you have in mind to spend?" the dame finally asked.  "Well, could I get anything for $10?"  plead the poor guy.

"$10!" said the gal in disgust, "I'm sorry, but you're not going to get someone like me for that.", and she walked off.

Dejected, the man returned to his room, and soon his wife and he decended the elevator to have some dinner.  As the elevator door opened, there standing before the man was the hooker.  She looked and him and then over to his wife and said:  "See what you get for $10."

"If most guys would bargain they'd force the price down and actually - maybe - get their money's worth"

So, if I'm comprehending this correctly, you are saying that a lady giving above and beyond 110% of herself and service isn't "their money's worth" to a guy who hasn't bargained her down? Your respect for an escort is clearly evident and unfortunate.

Let's put this into a different perspective, shall we?

In world economics, there are ****ALWAYS***** various qualitative levels of products, services and businesses geared toward different social/financial classes.  Not all people can afford high-end luxury products/services and not all people WANT to purchase low-end products/services despite their ability to afford the items.  

To the consumer mass market, only a FEW industries permit price negotiations. In MOST others, the consumer would be laughed right out the door.

In THIS business, price negotiations are not acceptable, therefore, the practice of bargaining a lady's rates is openly resented.

It is VERY simple.  Avoid negotiating rates for Gucci/Prada when you ****KNOW**** your budget is in Target's price range.  OH!  And the same rule applies for people who feel Target's prices are too expensive compared to Walmart or Kmart.  Don't shop there if you don't like the rates!  Same thing goes for this business.  

Grow up, get a clue and go after the girls in your price range.  Otherwise...just leave the others [out of your price range] alone. Girls who charge high rates with less-than-top quality companionship WILL figure it out when their business diminishes.

This is simply Business 101 concepts folks.

My 2 cents,
Ella

He is getting off on abusing his power over women who are desperate.  If sex is cheap where this jackass lives, it is likely because the natives live at a much lower class level than we do.  So what does your "friend" do?  He steps on their backs because he is "nice" enough to be bathed and not physically abusive, unlike much of what these women may be used to.

These song excerpts are for him...

"God money, I'll do anything for you
God money just tell me what you want me to
God money nail me up against the wall
God money dont want everything he wants it all

God money's not looking for the cure.
God money's not concerned with the sick among the pure
God money lets go dancing on the backs of the bruised
God money's not one to choose

Head like a hole
Black as your soul
I'd rather die than give you control

While I agree here trying to bargain is not cool, what we do not know is what country this guy is in. I will tell you that in most asain countries, the local gorls, not the class providers , state a price twice as high as the going rate for the foreigners.  The men " bargain them down from 200 to 125 and feel like they got a deal, wen the girl is laughing all the weay to the bank because the going rate for the locals or those in the know is $50.00

Sounds to me like the guy doesnt know the market.

And shame on anyone who thinks that bargaining with a lady for her company is okay. As previously stated there are levels to this service; go to the level you can comfortably afford.

Your friend sounds like he supports the subjugation of women and the sex slave industry.  It is often in countries that sex is cheap that the women who are in the industry are not there by choice but because they have been sold into or are paying off a "debt."  Let him chew on that when goes to bargain next time.  His bargaining may be keeping a woman in slavery.

How does that feel?

since DT posted this here.... I will comment.
Many have called me a racist because I am intolerant of those who come to this country with no intent of becoming a part of our culture.  Rather they wish to "change" our culture to fit theirs.  One such group are the militant Muslims (not all Muslims, as I've several Muslim friends who are grateful for the freedom they experience here, but the Militant, literal interpretive Muslims, not unlike the literal interpretie 'born again' Christians).  I would remind all that this group believes that women are "property," much as sheep, cattle and horses are property.  And it is their right to treat women as such.  It is also their "right" to keep them illiterate, uneducated, and servile to the males within their religion.  It is also their "right" to abuse their women, sell them (or trade them) and "use" them for whatever purpose pleases them at the time.

What you will not hear, is NOW speaking loudly against such beliefs....  What you will not hear is the ACLU going after such abuses of liberty.... What you will not hear is Rosie O'Donnell railing against such thought patterns...  You DO see these groups defending the rights of these ignorant and regressive groups to behave in this manner.  

Sorry, but I would put your friend in the same category.  He offers them no help, no hope, and no envisionment.  Most of the women in this industry I've had the pleasure of meeting are indeed a cut above the norm.  Many I wished that I had met in civie life... they seem to be better than those I do meet in civie life.  They tend to be somewhat more understanding - many are much better money managers than my ex! lol! (not that it would take a lot to achieve that!) - many are very intelligent and able to communicate and get their points across without belittleing (publically) their conversant.  But what your "Friend" has chosen to do, is to find gals who are NOT his equal - to bully.

Maybe that is how he gets his jollys.  and if he does it with women.... imagine what he thinks of others - including you!  I would really stay away from the likes of him.... as a dude.  He is probably not good news.


-- Modified on 5/25/2007 6:19:09 AM

Thank you for your thoughts which confirm what I also feel even though I respect this person as a successful business man. Circumstances have bought it about that I have to challenge him on this issue but I am not good at putting things into words, especially face to face.  Anyone want to have a go at summarising the what people have said here in a way that challenges his thinking.  He is very clever so it needs to be a good non-emotive argument.

I truly appreciate your input as I did not know this occurs in other countries.  

Thank you!!!!!
Ella

and I also think that there is too much risk in hobbying in the third world... just way too risky.  sorry, MDR STD's!  no thanks.

Don't bother. He knows what he's doing and believes what he believes. You can't change people.

I do not negotiate price... heck, I don't even ask for specials.  I figure that I want the ladies undevided attention.  and for the record - for this particular lady, I was paying PS rates.  ok?  and what I got was taken - not once but twice.  Ok.... so that is MY problem... her's is a lot more serious.  While I look the other way - and as I have posted, I did not carry more than I planned to spend... and my credit card has my picture ON IT.  So if someone other than me tried to use it, they wind up getting called in....   she was very foolish.

Clearly she has a problem... but I have heard tales of others where they get rolled as well, and it is not about negotiating...it is about taking...

No offense... but do YOU have any experience in finding a "private" provider?!  lol!  I'll bet not.

for all the super hot lovin' he provides! LOL!

If I offer a special it is on my terms. No bargaining here. Totally rude. Maybe if the guy looked like he stepped off the runway or pages of GQ...maybe. Nah, still wouldn't

-- Modified on 5/25/2007 7:46:17 PM

And the picture on her website. What else do you need? The quality of the sex you're going to get bargaining with is probably going to be just a little better. The women who give you the best sex are the ones who want you to have the best sex.

Besides, it creates general resentment between providers and clients and encourages the old upsell during the session.

I prefer to cut out the middle. If I look at the price and feel like a sucker, I take the ol' manual override and move on.

Man do we need a guys only board!!!  Providers just are going to ruin a discussion thread on prices just because it hurts their bottom line. The line "You get what you pay for" is such BS.  Most guys here have had negative or subpar experiences with providers that charge premium prices.  

Please TER get give us gives a man's only board!!

BUT you have to earn the privalege to get there.  And that means 10 accepted reviews.... Second, I do not support the bargining... it only leads to the "what if" scenario...  Let me ask you this.... do you do incall or outcall?  Me I prefer Incall - why?  because the lady takes the hit for the hotel, making arrangements... all you have to do is show up... now, if you get the hotel (and from the sound of it - Motel 6 would be a step up for you)... then you are out that plus her fee....

Dude, If you want a crack whore experience you can still get it.  and "you get what you pay for" is as true for ladies as it is for cars and restaurants.... and some high end restaurants are way over priced - but they do not stay in business long.  same here.

Be careful in speaking for us all.... for my part, my experience with providers has by and large - ON THE WHOLE - been one of professionalism... and in some instances genuine friendship.... in short Quality!  I cannot say the same for ANY of my civie dates... since my divorce.... that has been one strangeness after another.

Please.... get your facts straight.

Why do you feel the need to flame me on this??? If your experiences have been good for you, more power to you.  

If your best relationships are with a provider than dude, you have issues. Or maybe you are masquerading as a guy and you are actually a provider.

No need to flame me if you have a different opinion. You are allowed.  I've read many posts where guys are complaining about average at best performances at premium prices.

Oh - my - GAWD. I'm like SO sorry we gals screwed up your discussion. I mean, that is just - so, like - BAD that we would do that. What were we THINKING?!? We should all be like, you know, just pushover doormats who are all like, just totally grateful for whatever little crumbs you big strong men are nice enough to gift us with.

Maybe your post will be taken more seriously when you are familiar enough with the site to at least know that there IS in fact a "reviewers only" board. Then maybe you'll be taken seriously when you whine about "subpar experiences" with providers that charge premium prices, when you review a girl who's ad didn't come from CL, and who charges more than a ridiculous 175. Where are the reviews of these "premium" priced babes you've been banging buddy?

My attitude about bargaining doesn't come from worries about my bottom line, it comes from the fact that attempting to bargain with a lady is simply TACKY, degrading, and insulting. Simple as that. Nothing says "I have absolutely NO class" like a loser who wants to play, but is pissed because he can't afford to pay.

A couple months ago several local providers claimed their business was slow and had several theories on reasons.  But one said that as a result she had gotten a number of guys showing up and telling her they'd only pay 50 or 100 less than her stated "gift" - take it or leave it.  She occasionally posts 1 day special ads for reduced rates on a board and she said others have tried to pass off those bargains long after they knew they'd expired.

Interestly she told me she accepted it from many/most since she'd already paid for the room and felt they had her in a bad spot.  In some ways it was flattering that she'd confide this to me as she could sense I would never try such BS.

I know most are badmouthing your buddy, and probably rightly so, but I will say that in Nevada both in brothels and with escorts it is a renegade used-car-like haggle market not unlike Tiajuana is for everything.  Many girls start at outlandishly high prices and upselling is extremely common.

So in some areas it is common practice to haggle and those who don't get rip-off tourist prices and bilked like they are major suckers and marks.  It isn't right to rip on this one guy for it as many providers also participate in it and are just as guilty if not moreso - because they do it daily - or try to.

Now in a market that is expected to be a straight shooting no ups no haggle market it is inappropriate to try to bargain down as it is considered low class.  Even if accepted you'd have to know you'd probably be getting less than 100% as it would have to be in the back of her mind that she's with a cheap bastid who will never tip her and got over on her somewhat.

JMHO

-- Modified on 6/15/2007 12:31:02 AM

I agree that this is an extension of how he must view women in general, not just providers.

I'm glad you called him out on his claims to have been shafted by premium-priced providers, but by calling $175 "ridiculous" I think you're being unfair to the sub-$300 level providers.  I've recently met a great provider who charges less than $200/hr. and she's fantastic.

-- Modified on 5/27/2007 11:15:28 PM

Thanks - I think what you say is partly right in this case, the girls try to rip off foreigners and my buddy just cant resist the negotiation.  But yeah I think there is a power buzz that comes from it and an ego stroking from their compliance.  I also think he has issues accepting that he is having to pay for sex and that kind of explains a few things too. For me the jury is out on whether it is right or wrong. Sexuality is a complex thing.

First - clearly you did not know the rules... I pointed one out to you - there, to the left, no the OTHER left - where it says REVIEWERS ONLY!  yea, there.  but you have to have 10 accepted reviews to join the club.  OK?

Second, I've relationships but know what, most of the providers that I put in this category, are older, more mature, and for the most part as well-educated, or as successful as the civies.... the difference - they tend to be more honest, more open and definately less inhibited.  They are all of the mind that they too wish to have a good time.  I also have to say that upon meeting one "civie" gal, she was very candid - her comment "I want someone who can and will pay my bills"  Sheese, on looks I would have rated her a 7 or so.... but....attitude?  well it is rude to count the money in front of me...

As far as being a provider - another tip as to "how this board works"  click on the number after the posters name and you will see the posters reviews (and their white knight status).

finally, your comment "many posts where guys are complaining....."  Yes, we've all heard that - and I too have made that comment - ABOUT A SPECIFIC INDIVIDUAL OR EVENT.... happens - but it also happens that we have a searchable database... and while it is a bit faulty - it is also very large and probably by being large tends to average out... so lets just look shall we?

For search criteria set at performance = 7-10 we get 37,217 hits Roughly 8.77% of the data base.  When we narrow the search criteria down by throwing in price ($$$-10k)- we get 16,512 hits or 3.89%!  

However if we "go negative" (performance score of 1-5) and look for performance only as a criteria we only get 12,662 hits or 2.98%... and if we include the SAME cost factor ($$$-10k) we get 4181 hits or less than 1%...

NOW - let's change the price variable shall we?  if we stay at a performance level of 7-10 but look for providers at 0-299?  then we find 21827 hits or 5.14% - Clearly more providers in this price range giving a good experience... BUT - and here is the catch, if you again "go negative" what happens....

same criteria if you go negative... that is a performance of 1-5, then we get 8642 hits or 2.03% of all reviews.  In short you double your chance of a bad experience...

I don't know about you, but DOUBLING my chances for a bad experience...?  lets see, for me that would mean that I would now have two experiences rated at 5 or lower!  instead of one....  and for what it is worth, the time (in my case is a major factor) is not worth that!  For me?  this means that for a 1 hr session, I will remain at $$$ or $$$+ ladies... I just want a good experience.

So - yes you will read many posts about below average performances... this board is by design for that purpose.... but you will also find folks on here telling you of great experineces... and the board is here for that too.  I really suggest that you sit back, and read what goes on in this board, it is not quite what you think.... many of the people speaking on the board Know one another... have been to parties together... and have respect for each other....   flame?  nah, for flames I go to the P&R board... lol!

-- Modified on 5/28/2007 7:32:34 AM

He saw my picture on my front page, checked out my gallery, found my number and called.  Asked how much I charged, I directed him to my "gift" page.  He was mumbling that he "wasn't going to pay $200.00 to get his dick sucked" while slowly and sounded drunkenly clicked.  He saw my gift page and said "awww, thats just bull shit!"  

So I asked him how much he would charge to spend two hours showering, getting dressed doing his best to look and smell his best, drive somewhere where he was going to meet someone who weighs at least 100 pounds more (and might kick his ass), get undressed, get on his knees and suck someone's dick.  He hung up.  LOL

I never ask professionals that I pay, be it mechanics, attorneys, verizon, gas stations, grocery stores, restaurants, etc., to bargain.  I look for bargains, but I never haggle.  Not even in Mexico for trinkets do I haggle....everyone is trying to make a go of it best they can.  People should shop where they can afford to.  

-- Modified on 5/29/2007 12:51:42 AM