The link below was originally posted a few days ago on the NYC board, and it kicked off a lengthy thread, about the practice of some providers refusing to see African-American hobbyists.  

So i start to wonder, how do African-American providers feel about men who refuse to consider seeing them on that basis?

This is a different manifestation of the problem.  GZ818 had the door slammed in his face, figuratively speaking.  In the case of African-American providers, it's the phone that doesn't ring, the emails which don't get sent, the referrals which don't get made.

Is there any anger or frustration?  I imagine there would be at times.  Is it enough to just say "well, their loss" and leave it at that?

I'm interested, and i'm hoping this can be a civil discussion.

TY to all.



http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=98186&boardID=2&page=1

I have no problem seeing black men.  I have an issue with assholes and that's pretty much it. A few of my best clients have been different races. It IS up to each individual person who she chooses to see, either the way she was raised or a personal preference. I firmly believe that you date the person not their skin tone or nationality.

I am white and middle age.. kinda maybe your typical hobbyist. i have seen african american providers and have enjoyed them just as much, and in some cases more than white or asian providers.
Its really not a color thing.. its an attitude thing!! i was with an african american provider recently who was by far the sweetest nicest ,happiest positve person I have met in a long time!! so, if someone has a problem with color, provider or hobbyist, and I suppose some do, shame on them  for they are not living in the modern world.  just my.02.. what do I know..!!

That is a commendable attitude, one which I have tried hard to adopt, albeit several decades alter than I should have, and which many others ought to consider as well.  Your point about attitude sums it up nicely, IMHO.

But we do live in the real world, and I am curious about how African-American providers think about this.  And what, if any, actions do they take in response?

......world, especially Black women. The ratio of eligible single Black professional males to eligible Black women is about 1:20 so I have no reason to seek them out as a hobbyist. Most of the women I see are mainly White,Asian and Latina.

Unless a provider somehow hides her race, guys that won't see black providers won't book appointments with her.

The provider in question, who hid the fact she won't see black men, cost the guy a lot of wasted time and also cost herself the opportunity to have booked an appointment with someone else for that time slot. That is stupid.

You are, as they say, in clover.

But agin, i'm curious abou the feelings of African-American providers when confronted with the reality that some [many?] white/asian/latino hobbyists won't even consider seeing them soley because they are African-American.

I had two experiences, long before I stumbled into the world of TER, where I made appointments with women who represented themselves as Asian.  
They were in fact African-Americans, and in each case I had a pretty good time.  Both personable, friendly and interesting  as heck.

At best, each could have been bi-racial, but the East Asian influence was almost impossible to detect.  Think Kimora Lee Simmons, but way less sexy.  And, in civvie life, I've worked with two young Jamaican-American women who almost everyone assumed to be East Asian.

Maybe this topic requires some benign neglect?

how does an african american provider know??just  by the fact that she is not as busy as she thinks she should be? or by the fact that only african american men are calling her??  I think the prejudice is more the other way,, with the providers..  many of the hobbyist I share thoughts with have all been with african american providers and loved every minute of it... once again.. its all about attitude!!!!

I guess my question would be how would the AA provider know who is not calling her because she's AA? Guys don't email or call and say, "Gosh, I would see you, but you're Black and I don't see Black girls." The tend to just bypass the Black girls and find someone more to their taste. I'm AA and I can honestly say I'm as busy or moreso than many of the providers I know that are of other races and most of my clients are white.

I know there are clients that won't see me because I'm Black, just as I know of White clients that don't see anything but Black girls or Asian girls or Hispanic girls. Even guys that do see Black girls may not like me because I'm not tall enough or my breasts aren't big enough or whatever. I know of guys that exclude certain races or characteristics because that does not appeal to them. Same for the girls. This happens more than we realize, but when the excluded group happens to be Black, then people want to make an issue.

Bottom line: When my phone is not ringing or the emails aren't coming, I don't sit around and think 'woe is me. Nobody wants to see the Black girl.' If that were the case, what do the White/Hispanic/Asian girls think when no one seems to want to see them?

It's also been my experience that just because a girl won't see a Black guy in the hobby, that doesn't mean she won't see him or is not somehow involved with one outside of the hobby. I'm not saying this applies to all that won't see them or even most of them, but it happens.

this thread along with others have made me wonder if there is a better way to handle provider preferences.  I posted the question on the NY Board and would greatly appreciate any feedback provided.  Specifically, I am begging providers to weigh in on the subject.  You will note that I encourage the use of aliases in order to alleviate any reticence.  I hope that you will all choose to offer your thoughts with the earnest intent of trying to make a difficult situation a little easier.

S.H., sorry I am inserting this here, but since the thread is so recent, I didn't want to add another one up top. PM me if you get the chance (and so desire . . . )

-- Modified on 6/16/2007 3:22:04 PM

but I have had several long term client/provider relationships with providers of color, however they are all retired or moved away now.

In any case, I enjoyed each one and would certainly love to meet another; however, I think that there are fewer African-American providers out there right now then there were, say, ten years ago.

Does anyone else think this is so?

Another aside:

The only grief I ever got from anyone about being with a person of color was from an African-American man who started to shout at us:  "What are you doing with my girl?"  

I turned to my date and said to her totally straight faced:  "Why didn't you tell me that you were his man?"

We all started to guffaw.

Hey, no problem, hijack away, as this seems to be going nowhere under my miserably inept aegis.

I too, wanted to hear specifically fron AA providers, either thoughts on the question or experiences in their providing career.

You are a well-established and  a very well-respected presence on this board, so I suspect/hope your formulation of the question elicts greater and more on-topic response from the AA providers willing to share than does mine.

TY.

as a 28 year old African American professional...i have been a hobbyist for 10 years because of the extremely confrontational and hostile attitude that african american women tend to have.

Its not the thread..its the day.. you know Saturdays are slow on the boards and mnay providers don't comment on the boards on the week end..  especially fathers day wek end..
if you reposted the question on monday, i think you would get providers jumping in with responses...now to another question..In Philly there does not seem to be a shortage of ethnic providers..and I'm talking top tier 1st rate providers..been with a few and have had awesome experience ..because of the ATTITUDE not the colr of their skin...beautiful ladies, healthy and happy..can't get any better than that...just my .02..what do I know..

Maybe you should reassess where you are looking!  Additionally, sometimes if you have expectations when you meet people they can sense it and thus you have what is commonly known as a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Yeah, it happens.  People have their preferences and make decisions based upon them.  No surprise there.  

The difference, as I see it, is that blacks have a history of being discriminated against more than others across the board (I know that's going to generate some flammage - oh, and pun intended).  People discriminate against other minorities and nationalities in many ways.

Jews have been discriminated agaisnt.  Asians have been discriminated against.  Hell, Italians and the Irish have been discriminated against.  However, all of these others are generally discriminated against in limited ways.  IN GENERAL, Blacks are discriminated against in every way that the aforementioned others have and then some more.  So, I think that the sensitivity is not unreasonable.  

On the other hand, I get the "deal with it and move on" attitude as well.  But, it's easier to do that when a situation is not smacking you in the face and making you feel like you are less than someone else.

Hopefully more and more people of color are taking responsibility for bettering themselves.  No matter how hard you try though, there are going to be obstacles.  Why shouldn't we raise issues try to break some of them down?

I find this response interesting and perhaps you will see my question as 'confrontational' (although to call it 'extremely'confrontational and/or hostile would be a stretch, IMHO)...

Since you've been hobbying since you were 18 and apparently choose to see only or primarily non-Black women and probably don't socialize with us much either (I do realize that I don't know you from a hole in the wall, just an idle mind at work here), my question is how much actual experience do you really have with us to determine that we 'tend'to be confrontational and hostile (Real interaction, not media or he said/she said or with relatives or neighbors).Your reasoning sounds like an excuse. (Which you really don't need. It's your money and your life). I bet there are just as many 'confrontational and hostile' non-Black women.

Just a question. See who you like. I just find it interesting when people make statements like that.

Sorry if I've highjacked the thread. Feel free to email your response, if you bother to provide one.

i'm an african-american provider, and i agree with what others have said...1. how would i know specifically of the men who are excluding me because of my race; and 2. why would i care?

everyone has their preferences, there's nothing wrong with that. it's true there are some racists out there, but i generally don't let those types affect my world. believe it or not, i've encountered a few white men over the years who were racist and proud of it, yet wanted to see me as some sort of degradation thing. you would think i'd instantly reject such people, but no, i welcome them, because i like to see the honestly and rawness behind the facades, no matter how ugly. i come from the rural south where racism was out in the open everyday, that is the way i prefer it, as it makes it that much easier to diffuse.

as far as hobbyists who won't see me because of my race, i don't take any offense to that. i'm sure there are also hobbyists who won't see me because of my weight, or breast size, or age, or location, or whatever. it doesn't hurt my business because my goal is not to see every hobbyist on earth, or to make a million dollars before i turn 30. i like keeping my pool of clients relatively small anyway, so that each person is memorable and special to me in some way. not to mention that i have my preferences as well. tho i am african-american, i do not see black or latino hobbyists. this is due to experience and preferences, nothing more. however i receive a couple of emails every week from black hobbyists demanding to know why i won't see them, calling me a self loather, etc. because i'm always clear in ads about my racial preferences, these men could simply bypass me and go on to the next provider. i am not slamming a door in their faces, and hobbyists who won't see me because of my skin color are not slamming a door in mine.

That is a frank and well-thought out response, healthy and constructive IMHO, and I thank you for providing enlightenment to us on this topic.

A number of folks have asked, how would a provider know she is being disregarded because of her race?  That is a point i had not considered, it's like trying to prove a negative.

I can think of one example where you could be confronted directly with this.  Some of the more enterprising hobbyists here organize Meet & Greets.  If you attended one, and if by ill-chance some hobbyist told you, point blank that that was the only reason for his lack of interest in you is the fact that you are African-American, that he would never see any African-American provider under any circumstance, that would be something far beyond the somewhat more abstract concept of hobbyists exercising a preference.  Would that lead you to question or reconsider you feelings on this matter?

the same logic still applies...how and why would it effect me? the question implies that every hobbyist is a potential client to every provider, and that's nowhere near the case. it is not a personal affront for any particular hobbyist to refuse to see a particular provider for race or any other reason.

well, various social situations (clubs, bars, parties) my interactions with black women have been far from pleasurable.  i even had one tell me i wasnt "black" enough.  about a year ago i was in a civvie relationship with a 1/2 spanish 1/2 white girl.  we were in a mall shopping together and she went into a store to look at something.  while i was waiting outside a black women, whom id never met, came up and asked me what i was doing with that white girl. when i went to answer she went off about how black men today are sorry and cant handle a strong black women...bla bla bla...call me narrow minded but i'd rather just not even deal with it

it's your life and your business, but it would be interesting to me to observe the interaction as you explain "the same logic" to an AfricanAmerican hobbyist in person at such an (M&G) event.

~shrug~

...i would never attend any sort of M&G.