There was a post on one of the boards that started off with the concept of     “What do you do if you see a client that has previously seen a Shemale TS?”   and a great deal of the responses, both public and private centered around where ELSE that person may have been and frankly, I don’t see where it makes a difference.   If you’re a hobbyist and you’ve seen a provider …. chances are she’s seen other clients.    Likewise providers, the chances are that the guy you saw a few minutes ago has seen other providers.   OK – everyone with me?   So Far, so good.

Now … you want a Bare Back Blow Job?   Fine.  Go for it.   But don’t delude yourself into thinking that you’re the only one she’s done that way, OK?    As gross and disrespectful as this may sound …. think for a minute about where else that mouth may have been.   It’s OK because you didn’t exchange body fluids, correct?  Wrong!   There are plenty of conditions, viruses, that can cause infections, warts, and general discomfort that are simply borne by skin contact.   DATY ladies?  Sure.   But remember … that tongue has been around the block, too.

So .. what are the chances?   No one really knows for sure.  It SEEMS like the risks we run aren’t all that great compared to the possibility of getting run over by a Hummer driver on a cell phone while we’re on our way to Whole Foods Market to pick up a six pack of organically grown, free range beer … but statistics have a funny way of changing and even more important … if you’re the one that GETS the condition .. it’s going to be little comfort that you’re the one in 6 million that contracted a virus that way.   If you look up the statistics for disease transmission, it seems like the NUMBER ONE item on the list is …. MULTIPLE CONTACTS and guess what?  That’s what this whole world is about.

I personally think it’s hilarious to see all the effort and talk going around about how to ‘screen’ clients and providers in order to keep out of the hands of LE  (  A S  I F  anything YOU could conceive of, LE is too dumb or unmotivated to participate in) yet …. when was the last time you asked your provider to show you the paperwork from her last blood test?   Providers?  Ever considered asking the client to bring a copy of HIS test from within the last 6 weeks?  I’d personally like to see TER have a check box on a review site stating whether or not the provider showed and demanded documentation.

Am I saying to ignore signs of high risk behavior?  No, of course not.   Am I saying that Shemales are possibly not a higher risk than other providers?   No, I’m not saying that either.   What I’m saying is that on a “high risk behavior” scale of  0-100  (0 being a non pedophilic priest and 100 being a HIV positive IV drug user who shares needles) just being IN THE HOBBY is probably a 75 on that scale (anyone know that ACTUAL number? Is it a lot less?  a lot more?) and to me it seems completely delusional to think that you can get a feel for your risk factor by checking a ladies prior reviews or a clients other reviews in order to try to get some sort of feeling that you’re somehow ‘safer’ than you would otherwise be.

Remember an important point.   Both provider web sites and client reviews … only tell you what they want you to know.   I’ve yet to see a review start out by saying  “I was in a good mood after copping some black tar downtown and borrowing a needle to shoot up … so I thought I’d give Cheryl a call ……”

i get into trouble every time i do this... oh, well

THE FOLLOWING ARE FACTS AND ARE NOT IN DISPUTE:

1. The only TOTALLY safe sex is no sexual contact at all.

2. #2 in safety is monogamous sex with one partner. why is that not TOTALLY safe? because certain infections can be acquired non-sexually, then passed to the partner in sexual contact.

3. The NUMBER ONE riskiest act for the acquisition of a BLOODBORNE disease like HIV or hepatitis? SHARING IV drug needles. sexual contact is NOT high risk compared to this.

4. NUMBER ONE riskiest sex act? unprotected receptive anal sex; unprotected receptive vaginal sex is second.

5. insertive vaginal or anal sex, sexual contact with little or no exchange of body fluids, and all forms of oral sex (as long as there is not serious tissue damage inside the mouth) are all considered relatively low risk for BLOODBORNE disease.
  note - it has been determined in a laboratory that hiv can be transmitted through oral sex - by swabbing the tonsils of monkeys with fluid infected with 10-100 times the normal hiv concentration of infected blood. there is currently NO PROVEN case of hiv being transmitted in humans this way, and only a handful that are under study.

6. herpes CAN be transmitted without exchange of significant body fluid. some people will tell you that you can't get herpes if you can't see any sores; others will tell you that you can get the disease even if there is no outbreak at all. THEY ARE BOTH WRONG! the disease cannot be transmitted through the infected person's healthy skin; the virus is released from the body through the sores or lesions during an outbreak. HOWEVER, THE LESIONS CAN BE DIFFICULT TO DETECT.

7. there are LOTS of other STD's that can be transmitted through relatively casual contact (no penetration or major exchange of body fluids) - like chlamydia and gonorrhea. luckily, these diseases are easily treatable and rarely serious.

8. exchanging paperwork of your last blood test with a provider will protect both of you EXACTLY ZERO percent.
  a) there are no perfect blood tests; they can be wrong, and
     test results can be altered.
  b) a hobbyist or a provider can contract a disease between
     the time of the blood test and the time of your date.
believing that lab test paperwork protects you from disease would be delusional. i take it back - if the person shows you POSITIVE lab results, and you refuse to continue the date.... then, you have been protected.

9. risk involved with "being in the hobby": 75% why make up a number??? there is no way to know the answer. however, the link below shows a study from a few years ago that shows NO INCREASE IN DISEASE instance in a population of non-IV drug abusing prostitutes as compared to the general public numbers.

please note this quote from the link if you don't feel like reading the whole article:

"HIV, in short, is not behaving like a typical sexually transmitted disease. Sexual promiscuity, per se, does not put female prostitutes at risk for either HIV or AIDS. There is only one possible conclusion: vaginal intercourse and oral forms of sex (which are by far the most common forms practiced by the prostitutes interviewed in the studies summarized above) are not high risk activities for either the acquisition or transmission of HIV and AIDS"

on THIS point:  

"I personally think it’s hilarious to see all the effort and talk going around about how to ‘screen’ clients and providers in order to keep out of the hands of LE  (  A S  I F  anything YOU could conceive of, LE is too dumb or unmotivated to participate in)"  -- megapig


i'd like to be able to say that our officers of the law are a wise and cunning bunch, but all the evidence is to the contrary IMHO ... most of the time when they succeed in anything it's either because the provider/hobbyist was extremely naive and stupid .... or because there was a rat-fink-sonofa-bitch-turned-informer involved somewhere somehow

so let's not give LE anymore credit than they are due!  LOL

----

if i'm not mistaken, Chief Clancy Wiggum might have a thing or two to say about this, right Chief?

... to think that one can get a feel for STD risk factors by checking reviews. However, I think it would be a disservice (by creating a false sense of security) to have a checkbox on a review, regarding whether a provider showed or demanded STD documentation.

Having said that, I have recently been asking providers whom I will be seeing for the first time, what their STD testing protocols are, and letting them know what mine are.

Is this a guarantee of safety? Of course not - but just like your post does (thank you, by the way), it brings up the subject for discussion.

Forget prostitution Lou! ... I think I see some Trinidadian smugglers with a new shipment of extra-sweet sugar-cakes!

Yep!
The putrid impotent putzes who call themselves San Diego LE are putting the heat on a couple of hobbyists & providers to draw members of our community out to get stung.
 It's time again to deal only with your Fav's, repeats, ATFs & regulars.

 LE; get an honest job will ya'

   Cm

I live in the Inland Empire in SoCal and all I can say is
"I Love LA"

  Cm

I think it's important to remember that the risks are always relative - there is NO 100% "safe" sex.  The threads you describe always kill me, if someone is really worried, then make sure you use protection for everything, if you want to try and analyze someone's sexual history in this kind of field - I mean, SPs and hobbyists alike, puhleeze!  It's ridiculous to try and analyze who's "riskier" than who here, we're pretty much all in the same boat!

-Anya

They want to be known as a Family Town. The Big City with the Small Town feeling (or is that thinking?)..
(They have different regulations than other cities for their swing clubs, too.)
Wish I could say it's a fun town to hobby in, but my experience is that it's not (compared to others).
It's not likely that I will be meeting 'new friends'. They will have to impress the shit out of me with their proof of who they are; who they aren't, and give me some dandy references so I can do my checking..otherwise..wish I could get to know ya, but it looks more like "see ya!"..
I don't mean for this to sound rude, unwelcoming, snobbish or whatever words you might have in mind.
It's just a bold fact that my risk factors are not worth it.

I feel it is because of the high percentage of republicans in San Diego and Orange counties.

I agree that if LE wants to bust a specific provider badly enough they will find a way.  If necessary they can spend all sorts of time and money making sure they get a particular lady. Heidi Fleiss found that out when she ran around high on coke telling everyone the cops could not touch her.  It pissed them off so bad that they not only busted her as a madam but also made sure the IRS looked into her and her father's income tax situation.

For the average lady screening serves the same purpose as having a car alarm and putting the club on the steering wheel of your car to deter a car thief.  If you are driving a $250,000 high profile Rolls Royce(Heidi Fleiss) then these precautions are not going to keep a sophisticated professional car thief from stealing your car.  However if you drive a Honda Accord and the thief is looking to steal a car from the mall parking lot the extra seconds it takes for him to get through these security features may cause him to keep looking until he finds an Accord with the doors open and the keys in the ignition.

Unless the cops have specifically targeted a lady for some reason they will pass on making a bust that will take a lot of time and effort and go for the easy busts.  Part of it is just human nature to take the route of least resistance.  The other part is that they have to show results also.  If they start spending tons of hours trying to bust one independent provider without a good reason the chief is going to be asking someone WTF they are doing spending all this time on one arrest.

Yes,

One thing to watch for is a provider calling you with her advertised number coming across, even though you have never spoken to her before.  She tells you she "almost got busted".....but he said "I was so sweet" he wasn't going to do it.  HE had just gotten busted and was being coerced into aiding in stings......"but he just couln't go through with it after meeting me".........She says she called you because she couldnD't find any of her other friends and that she is freaked out and must talk to someone.  If your a provider, she will be sure to ask if you keep a CLIENT LIST, then, a few days later......wants to know if you would like to do a "double" with her and a regular.......since her face is blurred in her pic, you've never met her, all they have to do is put a blond cop in the room with her "regular"......LMAO....good try you poor DEPENDANT Independants.....you know who you are.........!

If you are a hobbyist......the same scenario could be suggested, or she might refer you to a "friend".  

DO NOT REPEAT WITH ANY PERSON THAT CALLS WITH THIS CONFIDENCE SCAM.

Pretty generic scam.......but there is a rash of it going on right now.

If the cops get you in a room, they will take you for a ride...period.  Unless you are going to be a turncoat.  If you have integrity, and believe you deserve the right to socialize in this medium which has been around since the beginning of time, you will nut up, and take your ride.   You then will have to PAY, to maybe loose or win.  When it is feasible, that person should report to any trusted friends and try to help each other rather than hurt each other.  People like to ponder the subject of these laws, but how many of you are willing to be "public" off of these boards....about thier views regarding this subject.  Too many people (including single people with no desire to be in a committed relationship) whisper in public about the subject.  How many providers actually tells someone what she does, when asked the question.  How many hobbyists will respond honestly to the question "so did you have any fun this weekend"?

GAYS have been more ballsie than any other alternative lifestyle group, truth be told.......all they did, was start speaking openly and honestly in public to put the wheels in motion.....SOON.....I'll share my story, and I will be public enough to give  my REAL NAME to anyone who would like to join me in some "Public" interviews with some local journalists (San Diego, that is).  Because I don't lie about my views, and....I'm not a rat....and my "PUBLIC RECORD" will prove that.

LARRY FLYNT ROCKS!!!!! (Did I spell his name right)?....heh he

There are a number of fairly bright LE out there who don't give a rats ass about the hobby, don't think it should be illegal, and don't want to waste their time with it - unless it's so in their face that they can't ignore it.  As long as it's kept low-key and they're not getting calls from neighbors and hotel receptionists they've got better things to do.  And, in the latter cases some of these guys are more apt to give a warning than anything else.

Unfortunately there ain't enough of these kind...

Nostinkingbadges is telling it like it is..
So, if you're 'new', and I haven't returned your call, and you haven't provided me with a darn thing to go on - not even a verifiable phone number..what do you think the reasons are that I might not continue??
If you had any idea what we are going through here, and NOW..thanks to a few canaries..

Thanks, NSB, for saying so..

I'd just like to add, that LE didn't create these little turncoat monsters.
Their HEROIN loving bodies are ripe for the plucking.
Also,  THESE little finks ARE your favorits, regulars and ATF's, been hanging on as streetwalkers on the net for some time now.  Easily used by the SD VICE on this little fishing and fabricating expedition and the FINKS most certainly will get arrested as well when their usefulness is OVER.   For an idea of which ladies to stay away from, read their numerous reviews and figure out which blonde ladies always late and are HIDING their TRACK MARKS by not undressing fully during the sessions.
for the rest of you,UPRIGHT ladies, if you ever get in a bad spot with the bad guys you have the right to remain silent you have the right to an attorney. keep repeating that and be tough! don't ever deal with the devil. you'll go down in the end, not the good kind of going down.

Well, exactly. You couldn't have laid it out there any better.
And as far as your rights go..come talk to me.

No matter where your butt is, you don't 'turn'. Period.

I'm sure with the 'yummy' details you've written, our local 'boys' can figure out who to avoid...

Thanks.
CSW

C'mon man...everyone knows its 73%.  Get your facts straight or get out! LOL

Seriously though, its gotta be much much lower than that given that condoms are required for intercourse at least and you're not exposed that often (1-2 times per month, 4 max - for me anyway).  That reminds me...does anyone have statistics on average hobbyist frequency?  Just curious.

I'm sure you're correct in that there are some members of LE that are somewhat on our side. Problem is they get their paycheck from you know who and they are sworn to do you know who's bidding. The fact that he/she is actually on your side is of little use or comfort when the cuffs go on.

 Cm.

They are screaming like stuck pigs because somethingrotten had the balls to post something real yummy. If youlookmoreclosely at this, you will be a peck a head of everyone.

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