You scheduled a multi-hour date with a stunning lady with amazing reviews who was visiting your area via P411. Total cost: 2K (or insert a high amount). Her profile has a cancellation policy (which you did not pay attention to prior to booking) of 100% due if you cancel within 8 hrs. An emergency comes up 5 hrs before the appointment and you have to cancel. You don't check your email for a few days. When you do you see several emails from the provider requesting the cancellation fee. The most recent one says that because you were non responsive the provider is referring the matter to P411. P411 has locked your account until you make the lady whole.
1 Pay Up
2 Use TER Whitelists, References, or some other verification
3 Try to get another P411 account
4 Take a break from hobbying - too much BS
5 Stick with ladies that you have seen before
6 Attempt to negotiate
7 Combo
Never book a girl with a cancelation policy.
As GaG has suggested, if nobody feeds them [escorts that require deposits] they will die off into extinction. Darwinism at it's best.
I would assume that most guys don't pay attention to that sort of stuff (cancellation policies) or ignore it unless the provider specifically draws their attention to it. I would assume most guys look at pics, reviews, maybe Twitter, and that is about it. Then book. Similarly, I would suspect that some ladies never even access a guys P411 profile and most ladies that do access it don't take the time to read anything the guy wrote - they just look at his okays.
I can't imagine myself being this careless. I'm pretty careful to read everything a provider has up online (ads, website, etc.), so I'm unlikely to miss the cancellation policy. But if I'm playing at a 2K price point I make sure I know everything about everything, and there's no way I would book a provider at that price with that policy.
.
That said, I would pay up and consider it an expensive lesson that I should avoid being a dumbass.
Come on fess up, YOU did this didn't you?
If so, the proper answer is, "you broke it, you bought it" I would NEVER do this, but if I ever got seriously drunk and stupid and DID do something this stupid I would feel honor bound to adhere to the terms of what I had agreed to. Is THIS the answer you were looking for?
Oh wait, I just reread your OP, Do you honestly mean this woman wants a TWO THOUSAND DOLLAR cancellation fee???!!! I hereby take back what I just said, FUCK THAT!!! No fucking way does any hooker get a $2,000 fee from me that I have never, and will never meet.
I'll put it this way, If I got super drunk and promised to marry some chick during some wild, mind blowing sex, do you REALLY think I am going to honor that promise in the morning? The chances of me sending a $2,000 cancellation fee is just about as likely. lol
This is getting way too detailed.
Just sayin’
Just my .02
But what do I know I’m just a skinny malnutrition’d guy from Toledo Ohio 🖕🏿
SP
I am just a drunk from Texas, or is it GA? See I told you I was a drunk. lol
But I have NEVER been drunk enough to do something as stupid as the OP has detailed.
Nope. Sorry. I would never do this. A provider that I saw told me that she does something like this, though. She said that she has a cancellation policy and has guys acknowledge it via P411 PM. If they violate it and don't wanna pay up she has their account locked until they do so. She said that has grown to be a substantial portion of her business. Obviously second hand information.
-- Modified on 1/23/2021 1:55:17 PM
These guys are fucking morons.
For the record for those people reading this thread that are unaware, Gina sold P 411 some time ago, from my dealings with her I doubt seriously that she would any part of this. I wouldn't see the provider in question on a bet, she sounds like a fucking money grubbing cunt. Of course I am sure she would disagree, but have you ever met a "money grubbing cunt" that would admit to it even at gunpoint? lol
I would assume that most guys don't pay attention to that sort of stuff (cancellation policies) or ignore it unless the provider specifically draws their attention to it. I would assume most guys look at pics, reviews, maybe Twitter, and that is about it. Then book. Similarly, I would suspect that some ladies never even access a guys P411 profile and most ladies that do access it don't take the time to read anything the guy wrote - they just look at his okays.
Negatory, I always assume that a provider that high in pricing has some sort of cancellation fee, and or deposit. I personally don't shop that high, but i have in the past with Ryan Connor, I don't recall seeing either fees but certainly didn't pay a deposit. That info is prominent on their P411 page and when I see it I move on. I once tried to book with a provider when I was returning to the states and last minute she cancelled on me, no explanation, saved me some logistical headaches as I would have had to navigate NYC and make it back to the airport before my flight. I make it a rule of thumb to due thorough research before hitting the booking button, to include making sure my schedule is clear for that day, otherwise is just bringing undue stress and drama. Idk why this is a new trend, but I liken it to GPS, and I'm not transferring funds until we are in the room with one another.
Because do I get a discount if I have everything set up from a hotel room booked to my time set aside (which has just as much value to me as she values her time) if she cancels? No, I don’t.
There seems to be too many double standards on the providers end than on ours. They need our personal information but they use a fake name and we know nothing about them. They have fees and deposits to protect them from us wasting their time but they can waste our time all day long. In larger cities they can attach traveling fees if they come to us but nine outta ten times they don’t take in to consideration time or location of where they advertise (meaning they will advertise that they are in Los Angeles when once you inquire they are in Hermosa Beach and your in Beverly Hills an hour to 2 hours away) do I get a travel discount? Ok, last one is kinda stretching it but I had to come up with third, so if you can find a better third that’ll be great.
Point is way too many systems in place for the provider to get paid but if they waste our time in anyway VERY seldom is there any compensation for the value of time they wasted on our end. (Bonus payday is the 2hr minimum rule because “I want us to get to know each other and be friends” routine. Yet, you get ghosted an hour after the session is done until you book her again. How about I just want to fuck, get out of the hotel room you have that stinks like cigarettes smoke and stale bourbon, you have your clothes scattered all over the place like a bomb blew up and get away from that yapping thing that keeps trying to lick me all over as it also watches us fuck on the bed that you call a dog.).
Am I Salty... No
Am I honest and straightforward... Yes
But what do I know , I just look like Forest Whitaker and Steve Buscemi had a kid together from Climax, Michigan (and yes that is a real city)
Just my .02
SP
PS How come when I type this out I separate the paragraphs but when I post the message it runs them all together. But I see others with separate paragraphs. Damn!!!
-- Modified on 1/27/2021 12:16:47 PM
First off I don't book with providers "in advance" like that, Secondly I don't book multi hour dates with HDH's that I have never met. Thirdly, I NEVER go days without checking my email.
I could go on and on, but I think you get the gist that this could never happen to me.
Let's skip past all your hypotheticals to your major point, "if P 411 demanded I pay ransom money to a BSC hooker to continue using their service, what would I do?" That question I can answer, I do NOT pay blackmail money, Ransom money or otherwise "reward bad behavior" so I would contact P 411 and attempt to explain myself to them and if I got no satisfaction me and P 411 would part ways, but in all the years I have been dealing with P 411 they have NEVER indicated to me that they were anything but reasonable in these kind of matters. Once again, I simply can not imagine anything like this happening to me.
Me neither, but you never know. There are a few really hot ladies that have multi-hour minimums and I have capitulated before. They have to be super hot though and that usually happens in a place like LV where the really hot ones may not respond to a 1 hr request. Who knows maybe you get in a car accident and have to go to the ER and cannot check your email. I could see something like this happening to many people. Like you I find P411 to be VERY reasonable.
In this scenario, P411 is trying to punish YOUR bad behavior. The lady was touring. No deposit, but she did set aside several hours for you. There are sunk costs/fixed costs. She also isn't the type to do same day appointments. She is a real classy broad. Most importantly her cancellation policy is very clearly stated in her P411 profile. Not only that it is in the signature block of all the emails and PMs that you responded to via P411. As a result, P411 regrettably states to inform you that as an experienced hobbyist you should have known better. They tell you that you should have booked with a lady that didn't have such a clearly stated policy in her profile and that based on the evidence that is part of their system of record they have to side with the provider. What do you do now?
I have been doing this for 47 years, I have NEVER booked a HDH touring gal, I don't book multiple hours with ANYONE I have never met, AND I don't make advance bookings specifically to make sure I am NEVER in this kind of situation. Any provider who doesn't make same day appointments doesn't have to worry about me bothering her. I know "shit comes up" so I don't make advance bookings that I might have to cancel
So IF the Queen had balls, she'd be the King, but she doesn't so she isn't lol You might as well pose the question "if you raped your sister would you confess?" Both scenarios are equally as likely and I don't even have a sister. So as I said earlier this situation could NEVER happen to me.
Maybe so, but I suspect that this situation could happen to the majority of guys.
Maybe so, but I suspect that this situation could happen to the majority of guys.
Only if they never bother to check the girls ad site for a cancellation policy and then think about the ramifications. But that begs the question: Given there is a cancellation policy would you book or would you at least discuss the policy and potential exception events.
I'll be honest here. Why the hypothetical with some clear error built in and then ask how one deals with the situation they got themselves into rather than talk about ways not to get into the problem in the first place?
-- Modified on 1/23/2021 7:58:37 AM
.
No.
-- Modified on 1/23/2021 9:38:46 AM
In this instance let's say that it isn't even really crossing your mind that you might have to cancel. Until of course that freak event happens that results in you cancelling such as getting in an accident on the way or something. This could be simplified so that more people can see how something like this could conceivably happen to them.
-- Modified on 1/23/2021 9:58:34 AM
You are doing a GREAT job of twisting yourself (and your OP) into a pretzel trying to get the answer you want.
I don't care how many different ways you try to ask the same question, it still is NEVER going to apply to me, nor many other people judging from the replies you have been getting.
You do know the first rule of the internet, don't you?
"When you find yourself in a hole, quit digging"
Quite the hole you have dug for yourself, wouldn't you agree?
Me neither, but you never know. There are a few really hot ladies that have multi-hour minimums and I have capitulated before. They have to be super hot though and that usually happens in a place like LV where the really hot ones may not respond to a 1 hr request. Who knows maybe you get in a car accident and have to go to the ER and cannot check your email. I could see something like this happening to many people. Like you I find P411 to be VERY reasonable.
In this scenario, P411 is trying to punish YOUR bad behavior. The lady was touring. No deposit, but she did set aside several hours for you. There are sunk costs/fixed costs. She also isn't the type to do same day appointments. She is a real classy broad. Most importantly her cancellation policy is very clearly stated in her P411 profile. Not only that it is in the signature block of all the emails and PMs that you responded to via P411. As a result, P411 regrettably states to inform you that as an experienced hobbyist you should have known better. They tell you that you should have booked with a lady that didn't have such a clearly stated policy in her profile and that based on the evidence that is part of their system of record they have to side with the provider. What do you do now?
1. Tell the provider to go fuck herself
2. Tell P411 to go fuck themselves
3. Go fuck another provider using some other sort of verification (P411 is not the only way to get verified you know)
4. Never book another appointment in advance with someone you've never met in your life.
1 Pay up
2 Use TER Whitelists, References, or some other verification
3 Try to get another P411 account
4 Take a break from hobbying - too much BS
5 Stick with ladies that you have seen before
6 Attempt to negotiate
7 Combo
I select 7, 4, and 5.
You lost my vote of confidence at the part where the hypothetical guy failed to read about the cancellation policy. For me, hobbying is associated with two things I find extremely important: getting laid and money. Or I should specify, ME getting laid and MY money. For those reasons, I scour a woman's ads, as many of them as I can find, and I read every word and go over every image/photo there is. If she's been reviewed, I read every word of those too. THEN I contact her. None of this scenario would ever happen to me. I have the time and energy to do my homework ahead of time, but not to go back later and fight for reimbursement or to get my name off the black lists. To me, there are far too many women out there to get hooked over just one of them.
Secondly, one thing I do have in common with hypothetical guy is not reading my email frequently, so I do understand that part. I barely even log onto it very often. Personally, I do the majority of my hobby contact with providers by phone calls, text messages, and WhatsApp. I have contacted agencies and review sites via email, but not the ladies directly. As such, once again, none of this would probably happen to me.
....not read her cancelation policy and worse by canceling a multi-hour date at the last minute, pay up. That said, I would not put myself in that predicament as I'm a last-minute monger. I would not book a session, knowing about the cancelation fees, no matter how fucking hot she is, and mind you with a multi-hour date that I haven't met her before regardless of what the f'kin inflated reviews might have said.
A back-to-back repeat has a much better mind-blowing epic session than the first multi-hour date, IMO.
While we're at it, the same can be said on the deposit too. Why on earth one would pay a hefty sum before doing the deed, regardless of how f'kin hot she is. She ain't the last one on earth for crying out loud.
How important is P411 to you? You could stiff her and maybe get blackballed...not cool but hey it's an option. Now I personally wouldn't do that but....some guys will. Then you'll be regulated to option 2.
But if you want to make it right, Pay up or try to negotiate with her ala Jack. This is what I would do. And then hope P411 takes you back, but get that in writing from the girl that all is cool.
Good luck, hope it works out
Generally avoid agreeing to contracts in which you find the terms unacceptable.
In fairness Lester this contract would be void in every state in the union so the only way she could enforce it is through a voluntary association like p411.
One can honor a contract regardless of it's legal recognition. Obviously that cuts both ways -- both provider and client in this biz depend on honoring contracts without protection from the law.
Agreed. But in this case the hypothetical monger had an emergency 5 hours before the session and notified the provider. He didn’t have a change of heart. He didn’t no call no show. The provider’s lack of understanding would dissuade me from wanting to voluntarily honor that contract. I’d be pleased to reschedule or pay a small fee if rescheduling wasn’t possible on my end. But paying the entire fee for the session would be out of the question for me.
If her policies were presented upfront and I didn't read them, that's all on me.
In this as a hobbiest then you’d better start thinking with your brain and not your pecker. Think with your pecker and you end up with this ridiculous scenario, one which I reject. If you can’t stand the price of admission (what it costs to fuck the provider of your choice, or to otherwise meet plain terms) then you’re in just a fool. If you’re so concerned about your bucks then think with your brain.
Rich people problem. Like GaG, I don’t book in advance and I don’t book multiple hours with ladies that I don’t know. But just to play the game, assuming arguendo your state of facts, I would make her a fair offer (+/- 500) and if she says no then I proceed to options 2 and 5 and rely on TER Whitelists and see ladies I know until it blows over.
arguments I have seen here to support one of the reasons I don't use P411. The other one is I don't want my personal info included in a treasure-trove of information about hookers and johns that may be an attractive target for LE.
... which is not really surprising.
I've negotiated way too many multi-million dollar contracts in my 35+ year career to ever neglect to read or to skip the "fine print" before agreeing to a $2k+ (or even as little as $500) payout for anything, let alone a romp with hooker, no matter how hot. I'm not saying I'd never book this hypothetical Goddess, though I really don't see myself doing so with the rare exception of a few local A-List porn stars I know. There are just too many other providers who deliver amazing experiences for a more approachable rate and have more approachable policies. Either way, I'd be damn sure I knew the terms before I confirmed a session.
So if I knew there were penalties for not showing up or cancelling, I'd make a point of ensuring I could be there on time and ready to play. And if still had an unavoidable problem, I'd contact the provider as soon as possible to work out solution. In fact, I'd do the same thing even without some no-show or cancellation policy, because I'm not a douche-bag, ass wipe, jerk. Sadly, I've been on the other end of this scenario too many times when a provider No Show/No Calls me after I had incurred unrecoverable expenses.
Here's a thought: Should I enact a Client Policy that a provider must compensate me if she fails to show up or cancels on short notice? Maybe she should send a replacement who generally delivers the same or better service at the same or higher prices for the quoted amount? I know several professional recording studio musicians. When one of them get's booked for a session and they can't attend, they call a colleague to "sub" for them. Those musicians who fail to show up for a recording session too often just don't get called by the few contractors in town who control the job assignments. Unreliable = unemployed.
Life is good
The Cat
Then pay up. Not her fault you didn't read it. If that policy is the smallest font hidden on the worst-traveled irrelevant page on her site (I believe you said it was on her profile on p411), youd have some point. If not, you kinda don't.
As much as I try to be pro-monger, this is a situation in which it should be pretty clear cut. I also, like many others, would probably never book a lady with such a strict policy, but if its written in plaintext on the profile- you got no case.
I can see this happening. But, as many have alluded, it would only happen to a frantic newbie (e.g. you discover that your fantasy PS is doing a rare "one time" tour in your area).
But, as Cat so astutely observed, "So if I knew there were penalties for not showing up or cancelling, I'd make a point of ensuring I could be there on time and ready to play. And if still had an unavoidable problem, I'd contact the provider as soon as possible to work out solution. In fact, I'd do the same thing even without some no-show or cancellation policy, because I'm not a douche-bag, ass wipe, jerk."
Further, if you had scheduled an appointment, with a "can't miss" fantasy provider via email (again, vague). Canceled the appointment hours before the scheduled time (by email? - for a 'can't miss' provider). And then, don't check email for several days, you might be a 'douche-bag, ass wipe jerk'.
Assuming all of the other conditions (your premise is vague about what efforts were made to contact the provider after the fact - i.e. the instant that you became aware that she'd had a cancellation policy). I, not being a 'douche-bag, ass wipe, jerk', would start with #6 on the listed options. Contact the provider, explain the situation and see whether you might negotiate a solution, stipulating that the provider contact P411 to notify them of the satisfactory resolution.
It's likely that scheduling another multi-hour appointment (if possible - maybe with a deposit this time), would be enough to soften her heart. Or, a multi-hour appointment, with a pre-negotiated tip. Short of that, from your list, I would only proceed with only #2, #5 and #3 (if possible - in that order).
But again, as was said, I don't see anyone but a green as grass newbie getting into this situation.
What if the deposit was $5 dollars, and penalty was $5 dollars. You would pay it. So, the contract isn't the issue it is the high dollar amount. I would pay it, because at the end of the day its business.
She is using the limited resources available to collect on the debt owed - and you admit that the debt is owed. OP is seeking an exemption for an emergency. PLEASE EXPLAIN what was the emergency? Wife couldn't pick-up daughter from dance class? Wife got hit by a car? OP is seeking a contractual exemption or change to the contract. Most reasonable would allow it for a true emergency or negotiate a partial refund. Your emergency is not her problem, though. What if that $2,000 was the last payment for an emergency surgery for the provider's dying daughter? Would you pay it then?
What are OP's options?
Since OP doesn't want to pay-up, doesn't want to get black-listed, and wants to see the provider again. He should try to negotiate a deal. The question is 'best foot forward' or be a tightwad and start low and work high. In this case, sounds like the provider is being a business person. OP should try offering 50% since the dollar amount is so high, with a 50% deposit for another v. So, she is made "whole" at least. Yes, she can cancel and run off with his money, but at least P411 will see he made her 'whole' and he gets his P411 back and has proof of payment. If he gets blacklisted, he can show he paid.
is it
The alternative is at the $2,000 plus amount, say fuck it. Get a new TER ID and buy a lifetime membership. I'm pretty sure Gina will take your money. OP will start over, but with $1500 left after a lifetime TER membership, that's at lest 3-5 visits with providers who are newbie friendly.
If OP chooses not to pay, he has basically fucked the rest of his fellow mongers. Because, he just added to the pile of super hot providers who ask for a deposit because they got fucked over.
and speaking for myself personally it would NOT be a matter of "how much" money it was, $5 or $5,000 I don't reward bad behavior and asking for a 100% cancellation fee is NOT the type of behavior I want to reward.
Yes, I agree that agreeing to even a bad deal is still an agreement, but I disagree that the OP has fucked over his fellow mongers by refusing to pay, he fucked us over by agreeing to such a ridiculous demand in the first place. Quite frankly I see very little difference between demanding a deposit or demanding a 100% cancellation fee with the threat of getting the client kicked off of P 411 for non compliance with her ridiculous demands. I would NEVER see a hooker who is so overtly mercenary. NEVER, not even if she changed her policy to suit me.
Who owns P411 now? Who owns TER? I thought TER was bought up by.a Dutch group or other EU entity. But curious on P411.
Gina never revealed who she sold P411 to. Probably a wise decision.
I don't think there's been any info on P411 ownership. The TER terms of service refer to "the laws of Cyprus," but no other info about its current arrangement. There's another forum/review board that transfered ownership to the Netherlands.
I would point out that you booked a multi-hour date with a 100% short notice cancellation policy, so you need to pay the lady.
P411 FAQ only mentions suspending your account in one very specific circumstance. If they were to suspend your account for this, let them know you had an emergency. Like another poster above, I've found P411 admin to be very easy to work with.
With so many options why would anyone book with a provider with either a cancellation fee or even worse a deposit.?
Just don’t do it.
Combo of 1 and 6. Cancellation or no cancellation policy, you cancelled 5 hours before the scheduled appointment. Most providers would expect their full fee if they got cancelled on that close to the appointment