Earlier this week, a hobbyist posed a question that really touched a nerve with me, and with some other thoughtful people in our community.

If you're interested, please take a moment to follow this link to my blog-- I would be very interested in hearing your responses.

http://discovertabu.blogspot.com/2007/12/flaming-sword-truth-lies-and-double.html

Wouldn't it would be lovely if everything in this hobby was simple?

respectfully yours in thought,

Tabu

Speaking only for myself the answer is definitely yes and for many years now. That being said I'm hesitant to compare the issues I have to deal with to those of the ladies who are in this for a living.

Terrific blog entry by the way. It really hit home for me as a hobbyist who has gotten very close to a few providers over the years. I have seen my friends struggle with much of what you talk about. The questions are valid and the answers are sometimes very hard to come by....

Yes, I occasionally participate in this hobby.
But I don't lie about it to my SO.
If she ever asked I would be upfront and tell her.
But she is not in a position to have any idea what I am doing.

I don't partake because I want to cheat on her.
I participate because I am looking for that intimacy, that affection that I don't get at home anymore.

I am very careful about my excursions. The ladies I have met and hope to meet all know about my situation and have all been very good and supportive about it.

Do some people "lead the double life", of course they do, but I can only speak for myself, and I don't feel that I do.

Just my opinion...
B

stretching of the truth from time to time.  Most of my hobbying is down while out-of-town on business trips.  I experience the hobby about every 3 or 4 weeks with discretionary income that doesn't deprive the family of any necessities.  Since there is no affection at home, I have to find it elsewhere for my sanity.  Guys are driven by a different motor.

Happy New Year Tabu.  One of my resolutions is that our paths will cross in 2008.

Most of us are living a "double life," to varying degrees.  In your blog entry, you point out that some providers are deeply conflicted about what they do, and in emotional pain about the lies they must tell to keep going.  You then offer yourself as a contrast, in the sense that you are comfortable with your sexuality and being a provider.  That's great, but it doesn't change the fact almost every provider living in the U.S. has to lie and cover enough to avoid LE, protect themselves against certain relatives and civilian acquaintances, etc.

There are similar issues with hobbyists.  Most married hobbyists must tell a web of lies, including lies of omission, to participate actively in the hobby.  Some of those lives are financial, because we rarely tell our wives where the money is actually going.  I have sometimes seen otherwise fair-minded providers become judgmental about married hobbyists. IMO this can be an indirect form of self-hatred, because married men are a provider's bread and butter.  At some level, hate your clients, hate yourself.

What about the single hobbyist?  First of all, he rarely exists.  To the extent he does exist, he often has a significant other or girlfriend who doesnt know about the hobby.  Also, the truly single hobbyist pays a price for his status, because he has basically decided to forego traditional, civilian relationships in favor a very private, exciting adventure.  But even this guy lies.  He lies at least by omission to his friends and family.  Some of us have grown children; and most of us lie to them about being in the hobby.

For what it may add to this discussion, my "double life" has been discovered or disclosed to some family members.  (I am not married right now.)  That has hardly made my life easier or simpler.  There are people in my life who are now quite judgmental of my behavior, and there is little point in trying to educate them or ask them to understand why I derive satisfaction (not just momentary sexual pleasure) out of my friendships with providers. BTW, some of us talk candidly to our therapists, but most therapists view hobbying as a form of sexual addiction, or at the very least a near-pathological way of avoiding intimacy.  (And they are IMO probably not entirely wrong.)

Freud once said that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.  Sometimes I spend time with providers simply because I can, and because it gives me pleasure and satisfaction.  But the rest of the world doesnt see it my way, so I live my double life.  

P.S.  I have one good friend who has experimented with his wife with dancers (e.g., private lap dances) in clubs in and outside the U.S.  He and his wife have never seen a provider, but they have not ruled out the possibility.  Swinging does not seem to fit his or her personalities.  This guy is one of the very few people I have met who has dabbled in our world without having to pay the costs of a double life, because he has had the extraordinary wisdom to make his wife his partner in his sexual adventures and to refrain from going further than his wife is ready to go.  I would not be at all surprised if he and his wife have a long and successful marriage.

I agree with everything you have written, except telling my SO. I go to great lengths to keep her from ever finding out.  If it ever got to that, it's too late.  Like many others, if things were more frequent at home, I would stop and would have never started in the first place.

I can't know what a provider goes through to maintain any kind of double life. I do what I can to make sure they don't have to worry about me. I don't contact anyone unless I want to set up a date, or I am contacted first. I don't press to find out any personal information.

As for hobbyist's double life, well I don't know about that either. I don't have one. I don't lie to anyone, but I don't tell it to everyone I know either. Some might think that is a lie of omission, but I disagree. I don't go up to a friend or a coworker and say "I was with this really great call girl last week." just like I won't say "I was a little bored last night so I surfed some porn and masturbated." Neither are anyone's business and is personal. If someone asked me outright if I ever visited a call girl I would say yes.

As for what moment said "Also, the truly single hobbyist pays a price for his status, because he has basically decided to forego traditional, civilian relationships in favor a very private, exciting adventure." Yes I have thought hard about my life and what I want in it, and I don't think by not having a traditional civilian relationship is a bad thing. I have tried them and failed. Not because of I am a bad person or because the ladies were, but because I am just not good at relationships. I really like and prefer the "hourly girlfriend" over any other type of relationship I had with different women throughout my life.

I don't know if I am even making sense to anyone, but I just felt that as a truly single guy (no wife, no SO, no girlfriend), I don't think that others should say that I am missing out or "paying a price" because I don't have a permanent or semi-permanent woman in my life. I like my life just the way it is, and I like me just the way I am.

Everyone have a happy new year.

b-

An obvious difference between being a provider and a hobbyist.

A provider does this for a living.

A hobbyist may dable in this hobby often, to occasionaly, or a couple of times a year.

So to compare the issues of living a "double life" facing a hobbyist and a provider is not always that comparable to me.      

Also, there are some guys that do actually tell their friends or even family that they hobby.

-- Modified on 12/29/2007 5:44:54 PM

I also have no wife, so SO, no GF, but unlike balathazar, it isn't for lack of wanting one.  I have had many relationships in my life, and have been married, and would like to be in a serious relationship or married again, but it just hasn't been in the cards for the past few years. Additionally, I have a new job with a company that has a lot of potential, but is totally disorganized right now, so I am working many, many hours to help right their ship, as this could be a career position for me.  As such, it would be almost impossible for me to try to begin a relationship for at least the next six months, so hobbying is really the only alternative I have to celibacy.  

For most of my adult life (since I was about 27), I have seen professionals when I wasn't in relationships, basically as a bandage.  To me, there is no comparison between sex outside of a HAPPY relationship and sex within one...and when my relationship was no longer happy and I knew it couldn't come back (and I have been married and in a nine-year relationship, as well), the relationship was over.  Maybe I am a hopeless romantic (I certainly am on HERE), but being in my 40's now, I feel aware enough of myself and what I am looking for to really think I could have a relationship that will stay happy, and when I get this job under control, I will go back to looking for that.

In the meantime, I hobby because I want to be with someone I am excited about being with...but it never approached the level of satisfaction I get from being with someone I am in love with.

-- Modified on 12/29/2007 5:45:17 PM

Wow......I've been lurking on this site for a while now and just decided to write a reply. I'm a single hobbyist myself. I actually haven't been active in the hobby for a few years, but I've always wondered how many other single guys are out there and what their story is. I would love to have a regular serious relationship with someone, but my luck has been pretty horrible in the dating world. I'm 33 and I've only been with two women outside the hobby. I've dated a ton of women that went nowhere, a million coffee dates and one date wonders. So eventually I decided to give this a try. I haven't given up on a real relationship. I still try to date people and hope that someday I will meet the right one. But when things are slow, I look to other options just to keep my sanity.

I told a few close friends of my experiences with the hobby. In some ways, I'm glad I was able to share some great stories with them. But in other ways, I wished I hadn't told anyone. I'm sure they thought of me a little differently after that. Now I tell them that I'm done with it, and it was just something I wanted to try a few times to see what it's like. I might do it again, but I would never tell them. So maybe that counts as a double life. Hopefully I can meet the right woman someday and wind up in a serious relationship and that will be it.

I agree that this is how these ladies make their living and, as I said in my first post, I'm hesitant to compare what a hobbyist goes through as compared to a provider. Still, people hobby for different reasons and with varying amounts of frequency. Some of us do become involved in friendships with these ladies and that involves a bit more subterfuge than simply fibbing to cover up an appointment every once in a while.  
There are no absolutes, every individual has his or her own story.

I think it is only natural that a double life must play into this hobby, for each side.  Women who do what we do are seen as less desirable by many for a variety of reasons.  It is ironic considering that a civilian woman who can rock your world is revered while a woman who has been a provider will inherently be more skilled via her vast experience.  Honestly, sex isn’t the only area we pull ahead of civilian women.  Providers get to see men as they are, when a man is paying for your time he is being himself- not trying to impress you.  When that happens you discover what men are actually after and how to deliver- emotionally and sexually.  Yet- we still are viewed negatively.  I cringe all the time when I hear someone use the word “whore” “hooker” etc….as if they know anything about it.

As for the significant other dilemma….for me I have made some tough choices.  I realize that my decision to enter into this business has branded me for life, in a way.  At first, that troubled me deeply but about 6 months ago I had an epiphany.  I am an open mined woman, in all ways.  Other cultures, cuisine, music, view points- fascinate me and have since childhood.  Because I like so much variety on any given subject, it stands to reason that will apply to sex as well.  I know I will have to be honest with anyone I date seriously because I just don’t have the gall to lie about it to someone I love romantically.  I will tell whomever I choose to be my life partner because I deserve to have every part of me loved, just as they do.  If they can’t accept it, then they aren’t for me.  The perfect Saturday for me with my man would be to go to the gym, get cleaned up, go have a steak and catch a movie, go dance to some fresh hip hop/rap,  then hit strip club, pick up a dancer for him and security guard for me (I love to watch ya know), go eat some Vietnamese pho at 4am, get a massage, go to sleep at 6am, get up a noon on Sunday and go to a street fair/flea market to look for antique silver jewelry- later cook dinner and watch Shawshank Redemption and Pursuit of Happiness and maybe end the night by playing poker/euchre with friends.  If they would enjoy all that, they will understand I used my natural love of sex and men to catapult myself financially to a better place.  I honestly am thankful I chose this- it gave me the experience, money and time to know exactly what I want and deserve.  When I do find that one who is for me, I will retire and be happy I had the opportunity to make money doing something I enjoyed so much.

I lie to my family to protect them, they will always be in my life and I in theirs, so I do the humane thing and spare them.  Their minds can’t accept other religions, races, etc. so I know they could never open enough to see the sexual being I am.  Sometimes the lies we tell are to protect those that would lose their minds to know the truth.  The names have been changed to protect the innocent…and the guilty.

XO
Melanie

Is meeting Tabu and the many women like her that I could only have met in this strange, but special, way.  Why strange?  Well, the financial aspect in such an emotionally driven experience always seems a little awkward.  Then there's the wondering ...  Will she be as beautiful as she appears to be?  Will she be emotionally centered and happy or is her life a shambles?  Will she be drug free?  I know she's asking the same questions.  I know that no matter what a woman says, there is always the hope that the man who appears at the door would be better looking, younger or more fit than me.  

To be sure, I've had some odd experiences.  Thanks to the internet I don't often have people come to the door who are not what I expect so there is less of that.  I did have a woman break down in tears in the middle of the post coital bliss and talk about how demeaning she felt her life was.  I ended up hugging her as she fell asleep in my arms and hoping the incessant ringing of her cell phone didn't bring a large hairy inquiring mind to my door.  When last I checked she was still providing so we'll chalk that experience up to an "everybody's human" catchall and say she was just having a bad night.

So there are odd experiences and there is much anxiety on both sides.  I'm sure that each side could easily argue the case for and against the other having more grounds for fear.  But is it a double life?  Do we lie?  Is our life a lie?

Certainly for some it is.  The choices we make on both sides, on the one side from necessity at times and from the other in want of pleasure, cause us to lie in different degrees.  (yes - I know - there is only black and white - yada yada).  For some, the guilt will eventually take it's toll.

As for me ... I guess I've decided to live my life as fully as possible.  Fortunately or unfortunately, my marriage disintegrated early and I never remarried so I don't have to struggle with the same guilt over a monogomous relationship that many encounter.  That doesn't mean I don't find myself lieing at times.  

In truth I guess I'm happy to be on this side.  In my life I will see far less than most women.  That, and choice, sheilds me from the extremes.  I guess I would say, 'I'm sorry dear Tabu' for the unfortunate comments this man made.  His sexual proclivities obviously involve a sense of superiority rather than a sense of equality.  I'm here to celebrate you, and the others like you who understand the benefits of a better way and who provide experiences that bring one in touch with the beauty and feeling of life lived fully.  

Best always ...

...wood.

Once I found TER my life long goal of a small stable of professional girl friends was finally achieved. I don't have the time, patience, room nor inclination to have a permanent SO.

As far as a double life goes, I'm pretty transparent. In fact just about all my close friends know I hobby. I do kind of hide it from the family though, but no more so then you wouldn't leave your porn collection on top of the TV.

I have 4 very doable single girls who work for me. Of course I can't do them because; A. they work for me and B. they work for me, but they all know I hobby and they think it's really cool that I'm still getting laid at my age LOL.

... Do you have any idea how hard it is to build and hide a secret, underground lair in a house you're renting from your in-laws?

Yes, if you hobby at any level and do it for a sustained period or even off or on, you are living a double life that we agree... but that's mostly where the similarities between H and P end. Now, it's not a simple matter of paying for play either. Many of us like our providers do this for myriad reasons and to me that's where it can get real complex. I for never ask a provider why she got into this business. Some tell me and I've rarely heard the same reasons twice.

A double life as a hobbyist?  No, not quite, but keeping things secret is paramount.  My enjoyment of the hobby is very importment to me, and I appreciate the times I have had with everyome I have met through the hobby, and with those special ladies I have met with in particular, these past four years.  One of your friends was the first I met with, and that friendship continues to this day!    Have a happy new year!

"As for what moment said "Also, the truly single hobbyist pays a price for his status, because he has basically decided to forego traditional, civilian relationships in favor a very private, exciting adventure." Yes I have thought hard about my life and what I want in it, and I don't think by not having a traditional civilian relationship is a bad thing. I have tried them and failed. Not because of I am a bad person or because the ladies were, but because I am just not good at relationships. I really like and prefer the "hourly girlfriend" over any other type of relationship I had with different women throughout my life. "




Perfect. Speeking as a single Hobbyist I feel exactly the same way here, I'd like to think we are not a huge minority in the grand sceheme...


-m

All what you said fully applies to me too. I may also add that I value the providers' skills very much, and I normally see only CMTs and tantra providers who are in a good physical shape. It's too hard to find such a civvy...

I'm single, with no girlfriend and I started hobbying about a year ago.  I've had relationships, went on many blind dates, and am always looking for a relationship.   I don't necessarily feel like I'm living a double life, but I don't tell anyone that I hobby. It's something personal and nobody else needs to  know about it.  I don't feel at all like I'm foregoing traditional, civilian relationships.  I hope to get married someday, have a family, etc, but in the meantime I will continue to hobby as long as I can afford to  and have the desire to do so.

I think so.

It would be quite a dull person who hasn't at least thought of living a life that he/she would never share with those closest to him.

Damn right mrfisher, this hobby is my own little secret world and I love it!!

Mo writes about the single hobbyist "He lies at least by omission to his friends and family.  Some of us have grown children; and most of us lie to them about being in the hobby"

There are many things in both business & in life that are kept confidential from friends and family and that does not constitute a body of lies. I don't send up a flair and shoot out a blast email for every bowel movement and that omission seems unremarkable and hardly a lie of ommission. Even aside from hobbying, there are precious few progeny who really want to hear about their parents' sex lives. I can just see the scene at the breakfast table when dad joins the discussion by announcing "WOW! your mom sucked me dry last night." I don't think so. I still believe that it is astoundingly bad form to detail one's intimate encounters as with the old locker room bravado. In some fashion we do it here on TER but that is under cloak of anonymity and with our partner's implied consent if she has a profile up on TER.

I started hobbying as a suddenly single father of two pre-teen children. This was after a 17-year marriage. Between work and parenting there was little time to start dating or engage in a traditional civie relationship. I was also not emotionally ready to start over. Now that my kids are a bit older I'm at a point where this is now possible. So let's say a meet a wonderful woman and she becomes my SO; under Mo's construction if I'm not describing our physical intimacy (if it exists)to friends and family this will constitute lies of omission. That stretches any understanding of the term. For me, it only become a LoO if there is a need to know, and with sex & bowel movements there never is (speaking as a single person).

But I am willing to bet that it is lost on over 1/2 the people on here.

b-

I am single. I also don't believe in "kiss and tell" even to my closest friends. So whether with civilians or providers I keep my sex life private.

 As I have said I don't hobby when in a civilian relationship, so there is no question of telling an SO lies to cover. When I find a new civilian lady I don't discuss the details of my past sex life, nor do I ask her for the details of hers.

 I don't lead a "double" life, I just enjoy my private life in a private way.

  All that said. Clearly many on both sides of the hobby do live at least two lives. Each of us must make a choice about such things, and deal with the consequences of that choice.


-J

As a married relative newbie- 14 weeks in the hobby, I am acutely aware of the "double life" and really appreciate your blog reference- very nicely done!

I think the degree of emotional conflict with the double life probably depends on each individual's sexual experience pre-hobby, whether provider or hobbyist.  Swingers, bisexuals, and those with much sexual experience prior to the hobby have probably largely already adjusted and may have less pain?

Some of us have positive and negative "double life" experiences.  The positive for some is the adrenaline rush of successful deception and a little joy from the deception.  For some, there may be a satisfaction of anger toward a spouse by the deception- a revenge so to speak.  I think the majority of us eventually- sooner or later- end up dealing with some self loathing and low self esteem from leading a double life.  Even if only at the level of not feeling comfortable enough with self to be out in the open.  

For those of us who have led pretty straight lives up until the hobby or been heavily involved with our religion, the conflict is much harder which is where I'm at.

The one thing I've noticed so far though, is that if I'm willing to admit the conflict and face it whenever aware of it and not pretend like it's not there, I am growing from this experience.  The hobby is a wonderful platform to experience all of our "devils"- jealousy, insecurity, envy, lack of confidence and many more!

Well so far my double life is reading the TER and it has been fun. I am looking forward to my first hobbying experience and I know I will tell no one.

Is this a double life?
I don't think so.
As someone pointed out as a professional advisor I don't share client confidences with my wife.

Anyway thanks for the interesting post.

Both you and Bobb are mincing words and yes, walk away if you ever felt like you had to tell your SO or got caught. People (even women) are very forgiving if you are upfront about certain transgressions so long as you don't exacerbate them with BS. However, when it comes to other women, most draw the line and you'll (Bobb too) be out on your ass or she's leaving soon. When kids complicate the matter, it may take longer, but she'll exact revenge in some way. Women don't like  to think they have to share and most will rather be alone and make your life miserable rather than acquiesce.

Now, I am not your shrink, but you (and Bobb) need to tell them that you are feeling less than loved and work together to change that... Now if she tells you that you are off the hook and can go elsewhere, they will being giving you Carte Blanche to the hobby world and it beats the hell out of bars and strip clubs.

Your not alone Dale, many of us are here for that reason wether we would admit it or not. Though if you make any kind of disposable income, why not have a few a year just to keep things moving?

I've only had 3 legitimate sexual partners outside the hobby myself (I may have said more in a different post, I had to recalcuate lol I don't like to think about it.). I am 29.

My theory is there are guys that are born without the gene to know and figure out how to attract a woman. Or are born without the aesthetic tools (good looks, whatever.) There are plenty of guys that look worse than I do rolling through a ton of chicks, so it's not ONLY that.

As far as your friends, I wouldn't tell anyone you couldn't trust to the fullest. Only two of mine know the details, other's think I do or vaguely know, but don't know the VIP stuff. To me , it is nothing to be ashamed of.

I appreciate your optomism, and admire you for it. I just don't have it. Truthfully I think you need to keep a few provider's rolling in, that will help your confidence, and women can SMELL if you've been with another woman.

I've tested this. (I actually went to see a female friend after a provider, and couldn't get over how great I looked...they just know..)

Depends on your sex drive so YMMV, mine is insatiable.

-m

How old are you man? Look at hef. Why would it be stragne your still getting laid at your age? Makes me afraid to get older with this stigma that we are supposed to hang it up at any specific age...

-m

has rarely received so many hits in 2 days. Thank you, everyone, for your thoughtful replies.

My time in the hobby has certainly provoked a lot of thought for me-- as well as a lot of joy.

To my friends and friends-to-be, Happy New Year and Happy Hobbying!

LOL, I'm not even 60 yet. I think what they mean is if I were hanging out at the clubs they go to, I wouldn't be getting any LOL.

I've been married and faithful my whole adult life. Well, faithful until the last couple of months. However, lately, as I have come closer to the end of my life, and had several close calls that remind me it could come much sooner than later, I feel like a kid in a candy shop, who has had to keep his hands in his pockets, for the most part. It's just so hard be satisfied with a realitively small sample of something so pleasurable, before the store closes.

I hope I feel the same way! It sounds like you are having quite a bit of fun. I guess it is not as much fun if your wife or SO catches you.

I think part of the alure is the small sampling. Though I have heard you can't have too much of a good thing.

Yep! It's important to be prudent, which can reduce the anxiety enough to maximize one's ability to fully soak in the pleasure of the experience. I'm not like some others who find it a thrill in possibly being caught. I get too anxious just watching a movie where someone breaks in to steal something. But, I must always be balancing the desire for pleasure with my real relational obligations.