Today I picked up a copy of the book "Viagra: A Guide To the Phenomenal Potency-Promoting Drug" by Susan C. Vaughan, M.D., Pocket Books.  According to her bio, Dr. Vaughan is an instructor in clinical psychiatry at the Columbia College of Physicians and Surgeons, so this may not be a trash book.Being me, I turned immediately to Chapter 10 "Women taking Viagra."Dr. Vaughan says, "The biggest story since men and Viagra is women and Viagra -- and what the drug can offer women is likely to be even bigger than what it has given men."The drug is not yet approved for women, so she would not suggest that women take it, but she goes on to give evidence from women who have tried it ("It's the best thing since Ecstasy!") and discuss anatomical and psychological reasons that the drug should work for women.Incidentally, while she would not suggest that women try it she mentions that a common side effect in women is a splitting headache and suggests that if a woman is going to try Viagra she might also want to take an ibuprofen at the same time.She says that, "The official party line of Pfizer is that Viagra neither increases desire, the first stage, nor does it affect orgasm, the third stage.  It works solely by increasing arousal, the second stage."However, she thinks that Viagra {for women, at least} may redefine the stages of the sexual response cycle.Interesting stuff.  Does anybody have any comments?

Hmmm..Mathesar,get me some!  Interesting because the feedback I got is that it does not affect arousal,except in the sense of increasing bloodflow... This has never computed to me in entirety because i guess I thought if one was erect , one was aroused..I am told that is not neccesarily the case... That arousal is more a mental state and that Viagra has no "aphrodisiac' effects...maybe I am mistaken but if my clit is erect I feel aroused.. (which came first??the arousal or the hard on??)You are the smart one Mathesar.. anyway ,bring it on.ox Int

At a doctor's office I was at several months ago, there was a sign saying they offered Viagra for women and to ask about it.  I wasn't interested in it for myself, but I asked because I was curious.  They told me that it increases lubrication in women who had experienced a decrease or loss of sexual interest, such as post-menopausal women.  It's nice to know it's helpful to both sexes.  I think Viagra's great for people who have lost their sexual vitality for some reason.  What a wonderful thing to get back!I don't have any interest in trying it.  I want to save it for when I might need it... and I never want another headache!!!  

That one day we will be waiting for our partner to say..."not yet honey I don't have a headache"???Inquiring minds want to know.I had to ask, so shoot me!--LM

a real reason for a headache.Mathesar, does Vaughan say anything about arousal after stage three. Guys, anyone have some experience viagra which contradicts Pfizer's claim on desire and orgasm....Or the longevity of arousal...Please no stories of stage 2 effects on hemerhoids....

Mathesar,There are several clinical trials but nothing very solid or definitive, concerning Viagra and women.  In some studies women have been included in the study as part of the general population or in some cases the sole focus of the study.  The women only studies have a clinical issue in that that the study populations were selected based on some documented sexual dysfunction and in one study the women were all post hysterectomy.  However these studies have shown Viagra to be minimally effective and actually have the efficacy equivalent to a placebo.However the interesting news about Viagra and Women is coming from a group of studies looking at 18-35 year old women who have a difficulty reaching orgasm.  The preliminary results show an apparent increase in the numbers of and the intensity of orgasm for 45% of the women in the study.  But again this is a preliminary and small population study.Okay I want to be clear.  Nowhere should it be assumed, inferred, or derived that I am stating in any form or fashion that physiologically and pharmaco-physiologically men and women the same.  What I am saying is that for specific things men and women are similar enough to allow for extrapolation from one to the other.Given the pharmacology of Viagra there is no reason why it should not have a benefit for woman as well as men.  There is nothing inherent in the physiology of woman and sex, as it is impacted by Viagra, that precludes a benefit to women and given several factors may actually do more for women than men (Even further proof that life is not fair!).  Per the comment in the book you were quoting --Many people will make statements about the impact on the sexual stages but the simple fact is that if there is an increase in blood flow to the genitals there will be an increase in sensation from any stimulation.  Plainly said Viagra will keeps things moving and probably speed things up and maybe even take them to a places never reached before but it will not jump start anything.  “Not now dear will still mean no.”  If she does not want to it won’t convince her to.Now the issue of side effects again is most likely to be the same for women as it is for men given the pharmacological argument posit above and support by preliminary studies.  As there is nothing sex specific about the physiology of the documented side effects than there is no reason that Viagra would have any more or less side effects with women than with men except possibly the frequency of headaches in a population maybe higher because of the cranial physiology and anatomy of women versus men.It would not surprise me to see Viagra being prescribed for women with orgasmic complications in the near future as it provides more money for Pfizer and there is a demand for certain.  Who does not want more and/or better orgasms?  Ladies anybody out there with orgasms that are too good?  You want to reduce your level or frequency?--jp--modified by JP at Tue, Apr 17, 2001, 15:13:16

data than the book I cited (although what you present is consistent with the book).  It is possible that Vaughan had to write a certain number of words in order to fill a book and would be more concise in this medium -- but that does not subtract from your accomplishment.Have you gotten the provider price-appearance-performance data that I e-mailed you?

Thanks.  Your speculation on the number of words may very well correct!  Would not surprise me in the least.  As I alluded to it would not surprise me to see Viagra or some combinant variation become a most popular recreational drug for the under 45 group.  It has a large potential of benefits for women as well as men.  If condoms “ribbed for her pleasure” which make no difference works imagine if you could actually do something both for her and you!  Talk about better living through chemistry!  I wonder what the ad campaign would be?  “An orgasm is a terrible thing to waste!  "It keeps going, and going, and going!,  Or maybe an orgasm for every bed! Or car seat, kitchen table, desk,…stairs, etc..  Any thoughts?Yes I did get the e-mail but have not had a chance to open the data files yet.  Again thanks and I hope to find something of half as interesting as what you have done.  Maybe that thread should be brought to the General board from the L.A board as I think it is something everyone regardless of region would enjoy.  I am not sure on the ettiqutte of cross posting?  Any thoughts?  Again thanks for the numbers and I will keep you and everyone else posted.--jp--modified by JP at Tue, Apr 17, 2001, 16:59:32

Didn't give me a headache.  Nor did I feel any hornier than usual. But I've been hearing about it a lot lately in conjunction with women.  Always been willing to give something a second try (hey, even tried marriage twice!!  hahahaha.... don't think I'll reapply this time!  Loving the loving freedom...)!  So, who wants to come over with the Viagra?!  xo Faye Desiree

but I really really doubt that you have an arousal problem.  (For some reason the image of a forest fire comes to mind here, but I don't seem to be able to work it into a metaphor.)Actually, there is an interesting issue here.  I'm a 63 (almost 64) year old male.  I notice an effect when I take Viagra.  With it I function about like I did when I was in my late 40's.  I strongly suspect that if I'd taken it in my late 40's I wouldn't have noticed any effect at all.I suspect that the women most likely to try Viagra are adventurous, very sexual, and easily aroused.  Are these the very women who are LEAST likely to notice any effect from the drug?There is an old saying in engineering, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."  That may be good advice to consider when thinking about whether or not to try Viagra.

Ever hear of it?  It's supposed to make a woman loosey-goosey!  I'd be willing to be even more willing!  Anyone ever try it?!  xox Faye Desiree

as it seems to apply to me. I am within a couple of years to the right of that referenced age group that has tried Viagra, with disappointing results. Let me provide an illustration. My wife and I go to bed about every 4 or 5 days and I have never have had a performance problem while I am experiencing any type of direct physical stimulation. However, if I am giving her sole attention by giving head for a while, by the time she wants to reciprocate or screw, I DEFINITELY need a little bit of assistance. I thought by taking Viagra I would be perpetually hard as long as "some/any type" of sexual activity was going on. Much to how I was at 30. Well, what I thought was going to be a magic blue pill turned to be as effective to my erection as a vitamin. Absolutely nothing changed. To say I was disappointed was an understatement. I even went to the extreme after taking it four times to get another refill thinking I must have a defective product. Well after another six times(and upping my dosage to 75mg. the last two), I gave up on the stuff. I then started to worry, what if I was part of the 12% of the population that it didn't help. I started to think what would happen when I became of an age that I started having problems, even with direct stimulation? Seeing what you posted has put the issue in a different perspective and alleviated some of my concerns. I will try Viagra again in another 10 years or so if I need to. I only hope I can be as active as you when I am 63. I hope everything continues to function normally for you Mathesar for many many more years. Thanks for your input.

Mathesar,You are most correct if your sex drive is actually a Warp Sex Drive then it probably won't help you much.  Let's see Forest Fire, red hair, red hot, hmmm.  Tough one I agree with you best just to say Faye "you are just too sexy for anything to help except maybe more sex".  Kind interesting how that works! But as to the impact based on age for males that is a tough one to call as there is so little data out on men under 45 except in those cases where there is some type of dysfunction.  However given the physio-chemistry I would suspect that there should be some effect on younger men but it might be in the level of engorgement versus duration.  So in essence more blood flow but not necessarily longer blood flow if that makes sense.  This would impact the refractory period but not necessarily the duration of erection.Your observation as to what women would most likely take Viagra I would agree with you completely and these same women would also be disproportionately orgasmic and multi-orgasmic thereby reducing the possible observable effect even further.  Oh well guys it looks like we are still stuck  chocolate and champagne.  I guess it could be worse!As to the if "it ain't broke down fix it"-- Amen unless of course Marketing says so --jp--modified by JP at Thu, Apr 19, 2001, 13:52:26--modified by JP at Thu, Apr 19, 2001, 13:53:10

Justplayer,Even at 75 mg no effect?  Did you notice any fullness feeling in your face or head (the one above your shirt collar)?  Curious.  Did you have a big meal before?  Just wondering?There is significant data to support that as you get older there is an increase in the chances of you benefiting from Viagra so I think your approach to give it a few years is correct.Your comment on being as active as Mathsear is at his age when you reach that age.  Heck! I would be happy to be as active as he is now at half his age!  Wait a minute I am half is age and not nearly as active - damn!  I guess if I meet Laurel, Felicia, Nicole et al.  That it would increase my activity .--jp

Fairest Faye,Did some scouting around for info on Viacreme and came up with the following.  See Faye there is nothing I won't do for you -- keep that in mind when we me! Okay as to the Viacreme there are no clinical trails in place for it and no publications dealing with it.  However that does not mean there is not work being done it just mean that the FDA, NIH, or the MRC don't know about it.  But here is the scoop given what I did find.  It seems to me that Viacreme is working on the same principle as the "Altoids Effect".  Menthol is the active ingredient per the formulation that is being sold.  And it reacts just as you would think it would a cooling tingling sensation you experience just as you do with cough drops except in this case on your clitoris (I wanted to say Honey Pot but given that I am typing things like vascularization and clinical trials it just did not seem to fit maybe next time) of course the concentration is very low given the sensitivity and vascularization of the clitoris, there is also L-arginine an amino acid that may have some impact when applied transderamlly as in this case but not much.  Also of some interest but should be evaluated carefully is the correlation between L-argiine and the incidence of Herpes simplex especially in the genital area.  This of course relates to high dose taken orally and not to topical application.  Could be an issue but tough to tell with out looking more in to it.So what does it all mean?  Best guess (which since it is me guessing is not worth much) is that YMMV as it probably will add a little tingling and sensation but tough to tell if it would make a distinct difference after penetration.  Keep in mind Halls lozenge if applied correctly --lingual that is! may have a similar result and does not cost $60.00But most Fairest and Sexy Faye I will be most glad to do a double blind (Hmmm blind folded with Faye -- now that is a happy thought! ) study with you on both the Hall's and the Viacreme.  So when we meet I will bring the Menthol in both forms and you bring the honey.Hope this helps.--jp--modified by JP at Thu, Apr 19, 2001, 14:58:23--modified by JP at Thu, Apr 19, 2001, 15:00:03--modified by JP at Fri, Apr 20, 2001, 10:43:56

Dr. Bronners Pure Castile Peppermint Soap.Leaves you tingling in all the right places!Lustman

Good point.  Will have to include that in the study as well.  Damn I think this "medical" research is going to get expensive maybe we will need a grant from the government!--jp

Oh yea, let's try the Halls and the creme.  If the halls doesn't work that well, we can always treat our sore throats afterwards!  hahahahahaha!  xxo Faye Desiree

Well Mathesar I've got you beat ...When it comes to age... I was 64 in February...My experience with Viagra is about like yours ..It stiffens you up, something like a knee brace (lol)..I have found that 25mg is sufficient and in fact bigger doses cause more problems ...EG: Flush feeling in the head and the inability to climax(god forbid).... I found that Phizer charges the same for a 25 mg pill as for a 100mg, so I buy 100mg and cut them into four quarters and they work just fine..I agree with you that the Viagra does not work if you are not mentally into the session ..The big head has to be working for the little head to function

I took 50 mg. Now I dont have a great deal of difficulty, if any in the area of arousal, but wanted to try it to see if it enhanced in any way. Have to say that I thought it was a lot of fun trying to get it to work! I am going to try taking 100 mg and see if that yeilds any better results. Although as they say, if it aint broke, dont fix it! Still am curious enough to try it one more time.

You can't pump up a story like that and then just let it go limp with out telling us the climax?Oh... Sorry have to go the poor humor police are knocking at the door.--JP--modified by JP at Mon, Apr 23, 2001, 11:31:59--modified by JP at Mon, Apr 23, 2001, 11:33:37

Further studies are needed to come to any medically valid conclusions. I will need to find a partner for experimentation purposes. Lustman? I will need someone to work with me in making observations about the medical effects. Care to chart for me, Lustman? I will then be able to reach a conclusion that will bring closure or climax to the study. Oh, now that is worse than JP's attempts!

or should we make it a live video feed?wait a minute....what am I thinking?muhahahahha!I will be happy to give you anecdotal evidence Nicole!LM