My experience in this endeavor and the discussion here, never cease to surprise me.  As I write this I’m on the flight home from Singapore, a somewhat distraught and I suppose a little wiser man, based on my experience there this week.  Frankly I don’t know why I’m posting this other than I don’t know who else I could talk to about this.  Some of you might know from my occasional posts that I’m a level headed, 20+ years married guy who takes his hour or so a month of companionship variety with realistic view of what it is and with a lot of appreciation for the wonderful women involved.   From time to time I read a post of a hobbyist that has fallen for a provider I’m always thinking “get a grip dude”.  I do like feeling some warm human connection, but I understand the transaction and what I’m looking for.  

With that background here’s my tale.  Before going to Singapore I did my homework for overnight visits, something I’ve never done before.  Long story made short I find nice visiting Thai provider for overnight and we check into my hotel.  Everything is wonderful, I’ve got the next morning off work so it’s more fun and the quintessential luxury hotel experience; spacious room, over sized baths and showers, room service, amazing views – the whole set up.  We hang out until noon in our bathrobes having the best of time.  Clock watching is *not* on the menu! She is wonderful in every way, limited English but we’re doing great.  Ask if she wants to come back that night, and yes of course. I provide her own room key so she can hang out and come and go.  I figure this has gotta be nicer than the room she has - she agrees and ends up taking her afternoon naps there while I’m at work.   We have night two, night three, night four. Dinner on the town, lunch by the pool.  I knew this was a true GFE when I come back from a business dinner 15 min. late and she’s pissed I didn’t call .  First it was a bit of WTF but all in all totally endearing…

Anyway get to the frickin’ point easyb…  It goes beyond chemistry with her, before I know it we adore each other. I don’t know what to say.  This is very special and personal.  Smitten.   As part of this we get to know each other, why she’s doing this traveling gig (mom, dad, baby to take care of), real names, ages (older), the works.  Find out that she wants to go home in a week or two but thinks her pimp is going to make her work for another 4-5 weeks. He’s got her passport and ticket home.  In fact she wants to go home now if she could.  I ask her how much money she wants to bank before she goes home, it’s about $700 more – fine I hand over $700 and say “time for you to go home to your family”.   Of course it’s not going to be this simple.   At this moment she’s there against her will, she has no where to go for help and my plane was leaving in five hours. If she had a passport I would have just packed her up with me and taken her to the airport and put her on the next plane to Bangkok.  But I have to go and she is stuck. I get her phone numbers of Women’s groups in Singapore to call for help. I am worried sick for her.  

When I left in the morning with both of us were in tears, I have not cried or had a gut wrenching experience like this in a long, long time.  I got on the airplane and absolutely broke down.  People around me are looking at this guy with his head in a pillow sobbing way.

Yes somehow during the twenty hours of travel home and time to reflect the idea of quitting my job and breaking up my family to move to Bangkok to marry someone half my age who I have known for four days will start to seem shall we say, a little less than rational.  None the less I NEVER expected this could happen.  I had no idea there was some sort of osmosis where real affection seeps through the membrane between commercial and personal. I mean I read about it here but me?? No way.  Call it infatuation, call it temporary insanity, call it stupid but a chunk of my heart got ripped out and it’s going to take a while before that heals.  Talk about caught off guard…

Meanwhile I’ve also seen a dark side of this profession.  True enough she’s a pro, even in Thailand (although I understand retired, or mostly).  It’s not like she went to Singapore thinking she was going to be a secretary for a multi-national. She’s an adult making decisions and needs to be responsible for this fix.   But to not be able to pack up and leave, to be dependent on the pimp, to be stuck a stranger in a strange land, is ugly.  For me this merits a long, hard look in the mirror,

I am shaken to the core on this one.   I think I’ll put the blanket over my head and cry some more, thanks for listening.

easyb

for you, but I don't know that there are any.

People come into our lives for a reason and a season, and we are just meant to capture it, enjoy and remember, and possibly, hopefully, find the message within.

My hope is that you do.

I share your experience, in some sense even the Singapore portion. I fell head over for a provider...never expected... but deep down, I have to admit I was looking for someone.  Like countless other stories, I had a hard time accepting her chosen profession, and made appointment to see her much as I can.  Somehow, all was OK when I was with her. We even talked about moving to Singapore.

Our story depart here that I come to find out that she wasn't being true with me. Some how I still refuse to believe this but...she started cancelling our meetings over other hobbiest... I would of paid her for the session she would of cancelled and spent the time with me, 2x 3x without an issue.  I even had $10,000 ready for her to quit this profession and would of taken care of her after.....

but harsh reality... this was her chosen field...however temporary it was or I was told.  I still wish her the best, I just wished she didn't stomp on my feelings so hard...

What is it about crossing the International Date Line that makes otherwise sane men act this way?  I've been to Asia 37 times, so I'm speaking from experience, and yes, I've had more than one girl want to marry me and leave in tears when she realized that wasn't going to happen.  

A particularly desperate 27 y.o. (whose age made her way past her prime by Asian provider standards) started stalking me and calling my company's headquarters in Seoul to find out when I was visiting next!  I'd get off the airplane and hear pages for me as I got out of Customs and Immigration at the airport!   Letters awaited me at my hotel upon check-in.  And this was after having spent just ONE evening with her.  Yes, she really and truly loved me- I'm sure of it because she cried like a baby as she told me how much she wanted to marry me (if you guys could see what I lookk like, you'd appreciate the humor in this scenario).

And I'm not really slamming you personally, just asking the same question I ask myself everytime I hear a story like this.. . what the fuck were you thinking?  Did you lose your entire grasp on reality?  You must have if you could have actually believed all the things you wrote in that post.  

There are thousands of girls with this same story throughout Asia.  Some tell it because it's true, others just to play on your sympathies for more money.  In either case, she tells it many times each week.  There's no up-charge for tears.  She may or may not be what she says she is, but you can be assured she's telling the same tale of woe to her next customer.  Hey, it got her $700 dollars didn't it?  Jeez, I wish I was a woman and could play this game!

I shouldn't be so hard on you.  I know jet lag can really alter your perceptions.  Once I was so tired I actually forgot my name as I was making a presentation and had to introduce myself (seriously).  But it seems like you forgot something worse-- your family and your common sense.  Time to get back to reality before you buy a timeshare in Dodger Stadium for just $700 dollars.

-- Modified on 4/16/2004 6:30:21 PM

Whether the woman's story is true or not, but I do know from recent personal experience that this business has a very dark side.  There are women doing this either against their will or who are victimized in other ways such as physical abuse, rape or robbery.  I agree that the poster needs to re-orient with his family, but I also understand his human instinct to help a person that he honestly feels is in trouble.  I wish all of us had god-like wisdom to know instantly what is true, but we do not.  We are left with our humanity to guide us.

-- Modified on 4/16/2004 7:50:10 PM

...a man of a 'certain age' is so easily smitten by a woman half his age who is beautiful and appears to need him terribly.  It's that father-daughter thing but then, maybe it was true love.  Then again, have a good look at the family and in particular your wife.  Do you love her still?  Can you hurt her like this?   Give it time and write back.

Your marriage is in trouble.  Think through what you want, and see if you and your wife can work together to save the marriage, if that is what you want.

But don't go after this young woman.  That would be a mistake.  It's not you she wants, it's America.

More than once I have compared this hobby to the "Tree of Knowledge" Some things learned are pure fun & pleasure and other lessons can cut like a knife. You have just become aware of a lady who touched your heart in ways you didn't think possible. You now wish you could change her circumstances yet to an extent you and thousands of other hobbyists are the indirect cause of her circumstances.

Sometimes ignorance IS bliss; Good luck with this painful lesson

  YKSY.

Luckily, I was back in my own country and had time to really think of the good things about the person and also the consequences of my actions should I decide to completely alter my life. Sometimes it's good to take chances, but then there are those fleeting moments when a week with someone that knocks your socks off is just what it is:  A wonderful memory.

Search your soul and give yourself time to recuperate and think about what you really want, and know that we are thinking of you and want the best for you dear person.

Hugs,
Ciara

Oh yes ... SNAP OUT OF IT!

Sometimes attention from a younger woman, especially in an exotic setting, can bring out the tarnish on a man's relationship at home.  And to this the psychology of an older man helping or protecting this younger, more vulerable girl, and the situation can get very complicated very fast.

I, too, fell into this dark place.  My situation was a little different; I'm a widower.  But the rest of the ingredients were the same: a younger girl; a prolonged, sexually charged exposure; a far away, exotic setting; and a damsel in distress.  Some people call the man's behavior under these conditions the White Knight Syndrome.

Just like you, I was a wreck when I had to leave for home.  But, my story has an interesting and revealing twist:  The lady and I stayed in touch for over a year.  Finally, I sent her airline tickets, took a week off from work, and prepared for a week with this godess -- without charge, no less.

My first hint that this might not be as perfect as I'd hoped came when, a week before her Saturday flight, my friend called to say that irrespective of the arrangements she'd made, her boss now required she work that weekend.  She asked if I could reschedule her flight to that Monday.  This effectively doubled the airfare, and of course, stripped two days off our week together.

When I met my dream girl at the airport, I hardly recognized her.  To this day, I'm not sure if she changed substantially or if my memories of her had been so affected over time that I had an unrealistic image in my head.  Nevertheless, her behavior seemed every bit as charming as I remembered, so my expectations for our week remained high.

I had budgeted quite a bit of money for our vacation, and living near New York City, I was able to treat my friend to a whirlwind itinerary on which I spared no expense.  In addition, I presented  her with some tasteful but expensive gifts during her stay.

I won't go into detail, but it soon became clear this girl had some serious emotional problems that had not surfaced when we were first together.  By the time I dropped her off at the airport, it was definitely time for her to go.  

A few days later, my friend called me to say her boss had figured out where she had been and with whom.  She went on to say her boss had fired her, and she asked if I could intercede.  Well, I called her boss who said all would be forgiven if I would send $3000 Canadian.  After some discussion, we decided the same forgivness could be had for half that amount, or about $800 US.  As God is my witness, I nearly sent the money.  In fact, had the lady and I not taken a balloon ride on our last day together (for about $750), I'd have had the money and would've probably sent it off.  Even though my friend assured me in her phone call that she had no expectation of my sending any funds, that she felt terrible about the whole thing, and that she would feel no differently toward me if I refused, I haven't heard from her since.

I learned quite a bit that week.  Had I been involved in a committed relationship when this lady and I met, I'd have made a terrible mistake.

I have no idea how your situation would have actually panned out, but I suspect your return to rational thinking was well-timed.  We so often forget the value of what we have, and too quickly feel tempted to trade up to a newer, flashier model.  Welcome back to reality and to a deeper appreciation of your blessings.

The subject of hobbyists falling for providers is a recurring theme on these boards.  Even those of us who feel we have our emotions under control can lose our perspective given the right circumstances.  I'm just glad your perspective returned in time.

You have my sympathy.  I hope things work out.

-- Modified on 4/17/2004 12:06:10 AM

A peculiar comparison you make here to a desperate provider stalking you.  There isn't any comparison between these two stories to me.  It's not that she loved him that was important here, her feelings were not the point. It was that he loved her.  What makes this love less compelling and real than say-- family or common sense?  I'll leave family for another thread, but I'll call common sense what it really is in this context: conformity.        

No, she won't tell this story to her next client, because she knows he will likely regard it with as much annoyance as you do.  Yes, there are clinical psychopaths who make this into a game, (and male psychopaths who get off on other games, BTW).  However, if she was wired for these cons, she would be a grifter, not a whore.  And, no, I don't think she could expect to make a haul every time she told her story, if she even gets to tell it that much.  You will have to find other excuses to envy women.  

Be fair to him at least.  He chose what he wanted to do with his money: he gave her a gift.  I wonder: have you ever given a gift before?  Have you ever given to a charity?  Did you think of it as stupid as buying rotten time shares?  Again, a bad comparison.  With the rotten time share, you think you are buying something, but you are getting nothing.  With the gift here, he gave knowing very well he wasn't getting anything.  What's the comparison?  He's not deceived.  He doesn't expect reciprocation.  He's responding to his own love.  BTW, it's better than the "family" version of this same thing: alimony. I don't praise him for that decision, but you should at least be fair to him about it.

And you don't do it by excusing him because of jet lag, either, or any of the apologies you make for your rude comments.  Jet lag my ass. I think when you forgot your name during that presentation, it wasn't jet lag, you probably had a stroke.

/Zin

We try to believe that love and lust are different things.  However, this is a myth, they are not all that separate.  But in trying to make them separate, we keep families for the love, and then see the providers for the lust, and neither part is really complete, nor does it give even the accurate picture on either side.

Don't absorb personal guilt about the state of the sex industry and the treatment of hookers, Easyb.  Yes, it's really pitiful at the bottom of the industry, and I find that a turnoff also. It's why I limit myself to independents.  Otherwise pity would frost me up.  

You made a difference.  In caring about her, she at least knows that she's not so isolated.  And your gift should help her.  What is really needed to help the lowliest sex workers is, first of all, respect.  You did respect her.  Let's hope she takes from it not heartbreak, but strength.

/Zin

When one stares the dark side of the hobby and providing in the face, there is a natural tendency to recoil and re-think one's participation.  I am going through emotions similar to what the poster of this thread is going through after experiencing the dark side of this business through a provider, the experience seems to have changed her life, only time will tell whether mine is changed also.  I know, like the tread's poster, that walking the path that he is on is tough.
 I came to this site because of weariness from having to sort through the ripoff artists that give providing a bad image.  Over the last few months, I have come face to face with the reality that there are very good providers who are treated poorly by crude customers or by those who should be providing protection for them.  
 Maybe the posters that seem to show little human emotion when responding to people in need have a point, if you do not have feelings then you cannot get hurt.  But, eventhough I will concede that such people have some natural immunities built in, I will never feel that their response is right or human.

Well said. Been there,done that only for much more money. Actually still doing it while I try to extricate myself from the situation without deserting somebody who needs help. She is trying to take care of her familly back home and make her way in this country at the same time. My overall feeling (after 5 months) is that I know in my heart that I have made one persons life better and know that I have to remove myself from the equation and let her make her own way. Sometimes you have to let your heart guide you rather than your big or little head. By the way, sex is a very minor player in the scheme of this relationship. Hopefully, you'll realize that your currently family as well as mine comes first.

Give a gift if you're moved to, but not out of guilt.  Her life was like that before you came along.  It's not your desire for her that makes things better or worse.  The world would get worse if hookers became beggers, and vice-versa.

/Zin

When I was in the Orient as well as India, I saw so many hungry homeless children...did I wish I could take them home?  Yes but then that thought subsided after I saw a thousand of them.  Isn't it interesting that a woman in need evokes a different response in which I am not sure it is the man giving here out of love or charity.  This is why I cannot hobby in such countries.  It has nothing to do with the smart, professional, and preferably independent providers here who live reasonably well, own their own car and house and are hopefully saving up for retirement or a career change.  Your beautiful damsel from Thailand will be an old woman selling fruits and vegetables on the streets of Bangkok 20-30 years from now, assuming she does not get HIV.  I don't want to sound brutal, but hobbying there versus hobbying here (or some other 1st world country) is not the same hobby.  My $0.02.

as San Diego! The people who know you must be very appreciative!

her had a beautiful time. She can make it out on her own (just like us here in the USA). You did the right thing by coming home. If after 3-6 months, you still dream or her than go for it. You must consider all involved. Big Hugs,Devin

As many of you know, I speak enough Thai to get by. While many Thai lasses would prefer to have a Swiss or German or even Dutch passport (they dig guys with blonde hair and blue eyes), America suits them just fine as well. It's just that the embassy there is on to the game and can sort out the pro from the truly bethrothed in nanoseconds. Europe is a lot easier, even if they have to do brothel work there for a couple of years as part of the deal.

A prominent VIP member pointed out this thread to me. I can't really add to it, escept to note that women all over the world, and not just those from 3W countries, are always looking to raise their standards. Of course she liked easyb, guy sounds like he's a great customer. Which is, of course what the game is about at the end of the day.

If you're a moth, don't try to warm yourself by a fire.